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    d6 Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

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    I'm new to the hobby. Which army should I start?
    It really depends on what you want to play. And how your meta-game shapes up. Find out what everyone else is playing near you, and play anything not those armies for best results. Otherwise, if you're starting from scratch with no-one really to play with - or, you've got a friend who is also starting from scratch - buy the Dark Vengeance starter box.

    What's Dark Vengeance?
    Dark Vengeance contains a rulebook and a bunch of dice.

    It contains roughly 850 Points worth of Dark Angels. However, it only contains around 500 points worth of Chaos Space Marines. Of course, if you're playing DV as it's meant to be played, you're never using all of the models at once so the points difference doesn't really matter.

    However, in practical terms, the Dark Angels are only barely legal and lack enough Scoring models. And, while the CSMs are legal, they're almost 300 points behind and lack anything that packs a decent punch. You will also need the relevant Codecies for your faction as it will dramatically change the way you play the game as opposed to using the reference sheets that come with DV.

    How much does it cost?
    The Dark Vengeance box, one Codex, one other box of your choosing, and a Starter Paint Set costs you about the same as a Playstation 3 and one game*. In both cases, you'd be good to go for about a month. This author thinks of most boxes as console games, and Flyers and Land Raiders are the AAA-Title Collector's Edition game. The difference being that in this hobby you can use all your 'games' at the same time, and continuously.

    Is WH40K expensive? Yes. I suppose it is. We all know it is. But, practically speaking, it's no more expensive than any other hobby.

    *Priced in $AU where everything is more expensive - although the ratios should be the same.

    Okay, I've got everything. What next?
    Play some games. Playing some actual games, is a far, far better learning experience than anything you could glean from the internet. Although we really would appreciate some stories and how you're finding your army.
    Find out what works for you, find out what doesn't (just because the internet likes something, doesn't mean you will too). You, more than anyone know who your opponents are and what they're putting on the table. You are in the best position to find out what you need to bring to the table.

    However, if you're still stuck. Just ask.

    How many points do I need? What size board do I need?
    There are ways that you can play 200, 400 and 500 point games using altered rules. But, if you want to play the game as-is, the recommended minimum is 750.

    The game 'balances out' at 1500. Most games should be played at this level since pretty much all armies get a fair shake.

    However, in other meta-games, find out what the local tournament standard is. Most people in your area should be playing at that points level. While you're at it, here's How to write an army list.

    As for board size; a 4x4' table can accommodate up to 1250 with reasonable room left for movement. But, after that you should probably look at finding a 6x4' area. The floor is never a bad start.

    I did what you said and I still lost. What gives?
    First, this game is all about dice. Dice are random (most of the time anyway), sometimes you just get bad rolls all game and there's nothing you can really do about it. It's best to accept it, otherwise you're not going to have a very fun time.

    Sometimes your opponent can make a minor change in his list - like changing from Plasma Cannons to Lascannons. That can totally alter the flow of the game and what happens when they next play you.

    Sometimes the terrain placement is just bad (or the terrain itself is bad) and right from Deployment you can find yourself getting shot at and there's nothing you can do about it. Really, this can only stress how important terrain can be to how the game gets played.

    And, lastly, maybe you just 'did it wrong'? Maybe you used [X] to shoot [Y] when they should have been shooting [Z]. Maybe you Charged, when the better move could have been moving backwards and Rapid Firing instead? There are all sorts of ways you can be out-played. You didn't just lose because your opponents' Queens are overpowered.

    Terrain? You said this hobby was only as expensive as any other.
    Yes and no. Most of your 'starting' terrain can be household items. Books. Soda-cans. Small boxes. Whatever.

    If you look around the internet, you can also find a few tutorials on how to make some really decent-looking terrain. Made out of what you essentially would have otherwise thrown in the bin.

    Only GW Terrain actually costs you any significant money. Making your own should only cost a few dollars tops - and your time and effort.

    How much terrain do I need?
    Up to 12 pieces is the official word. However, that can get crowded pretty fast if you've got big pieces.

    A better guide is roughly anywhere between 25-33% of the board should be covered by terrain. On a standard 6x4' table, you would want anywhere between 6-8' square of terrain. It seems like a lot. But if you divide that up to 7-12 pieces, it doesn't look like much. Or you could just put a 2x3' block in the centre of the board.

    I don't like using Special Characters, and I think Allies are dumb.
    Your opponents probably don't. Special Characters are pretty powerful and there's no real reason that you shouldn't be using them if your opponents are. That's not to say that all Special Characters are good - they aren't - and certainly don't get the impression that just because it's a Special Character that you need to use it - you don't. But some of them are still good and they do make certain armies a lot better.

    However, Allies, on the other hand. Are often a required part of the game. Some armies just don't have the units required to fend off other units. Does this make the game unfair? Kind of. But, GW doesn't update their entire range at once (it's a big range), and so some units are always going to be better than others. But, allowing Allies is a big step to evening the playing field.

    So which Allies should I pick?
    This guide is very rough. But should provide you with at least a starting direction.

    I can't paint.
    Like any skill worth having, you get better if you practice. 90% of a good paint job is just brush control - how much paint you put on your brush and where you put it. The other 10% is just colour theory (yeah, it's a thing). The most important tool this author has is a $5 Colour Wheel.

    But, on a more serious note, the only real reason that you need to paint is if you want to participate in tournaments. Well, that and painted models just look better - if you've practised, of course.

    Unfortunately, painting is a practical skill, not knowledge. The only person who can get you better at painting is you. Wraith has put together how you can go about Painting your army without losing your mind.

    Which army is the best?
    That's a loaded question. It depends what points limit you're playing at (at 1500 there really isn't one). But, there is no 'best' army. Plasma beats Terminators beats Mech beats Plasma. 40K is much like Rock, Paper, Scissors. None of the armies are 'best', as each army can be countered. Some armies are better than others, but there is no 'best'.

    However, as you play the game you will notice that your Codex doesn't have the units that beat another Codex. That's not to say that you haven't won any games, and it's not to say that your opponents' armies haven't lost several games to armies that just aren't yours. It just means that your army can't beat your opponent's army with what you've got available to you. That's why Allies need to be in the game.

    Wait, so there are bad Codecies?
    Yes. But, every Codex should be usable between 1000-1500 points. So, no matter what army you pick, you'll be okay within those points limits, or, you should be. If you find that your Codex/Army isn't doing well against certain opponents, and there's nothing you can do; You may need Allies.

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    Here's a bunch of Battle Reports for you to read. Plenty of army lists in there.
    Last edited by Renegade Paladin; 2014-11-13 at 07:05 PM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    Just a note, it seems that the AM/IG guide from last thread never got added to the OP.

    Following last thread's discussion on LoWs, I think putting the expensive characters into LoW slots is fine, granted they get enough to justify it. Imotekh, for example, doesn't do nearly enough to justify his tag imo. Does Gahz?

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    I'll take care of it. Do you know which page it's on?
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    Quote Originally Posted by Requizen View Post
    Following last thread's discussion on LoWs, I think putting the expensive characters into LoW slots is fine, granted they get enough to justify it. Imotekh, for example, doesn't do nearly enough to justify his tag imo. Does Gahz?
    The thing about Imotekh is that he scales with the number of points your opponent has on the table. In big Apocalypse games? Imotekh is absolutely ridiculous. I mean, I've seen him destroy about a thousand points per turn, just by being on the table.

    Of course, in Apocalypse, being an LoW would not actually mean anything, so...
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    Quote Originally Posted by LeSwordfish View Post
    I actually kind of like special characters as Lords Of War.
    I don't. It's really, really stupid. Lords of War are not HQs, so you need to take another HQ, which means you're losing points. And then, Infantry-sized models are now in the same slot as Super-Heavies with ~10 Hull Points. It's absurd. Then you've got the metas which have unilaterally banned Lords of War (partly because they don't know how to use them properly), where banning special characters hasn't happened since like, 4th Edition.

    No really. That's your choice. Ghaz or a Stompa. Mephiston or a Typhon. It doesn't make any sense. The comparisons aren't there.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    I don't. It's really, really stupid. Lords of War are not HQs, so you need to take another HQ, which means you're losing points. And then, Infantry-sized models are now in the same slot as Super-Heavies with ~10 Hull Points. It's absurd. Then you've got the metas which have unilaterally banned Lords of War (partly because they don't know how to use them properly), where banning special characters hasn't happened since like, 4th Edition.

    No really. That's your choice. Ghaz or a Stompa. Mephiston or a Typhon. It doesn't make any sense. The comparisons aren't there.
    True.

    But it's still a thing, and unlikely to go away. Best make of it what we can.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tome View Post
    But it's still a thing, and unlikely to go away. Best make of it what we can.
    I would even prefer something like 'Ghaz takes two HQ slots.', it would be just as crappy as putting him in the Lord of War slot. However, since the Ork Horde Detachment has 3 HQ slots, it's fine, because then the fluff would kind of match the mechanics. You could still take Ghaz and another HQ.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade Paladin View Post
    I'll take care of it. Do you know which page it's on?
    Page 10.

    Also, What sort of models should be Priority for a Space Wolves player? Yes I know there is the rumored update coming, but considering I only have 27 Grey Hunters with 5 plasmaguns among them, a land speeder, 1 rhino, 1 drop pod, 2 rune priests, a wolf lord with Fist and Claw, 4 rocket longfangs, 3 hammernators, a double claw terminator and an assultcannon Terminator I feel like there should be some models that are an auto pick for any wolf player no matter how the rules turn out.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    Quote Originally Posted by Saambell View Post
    Page 10.
    Here I just got done searching the thread and come here to find someone told me after I decided to go looking. Thanks anyway. It's now in the first post.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade Paladin View Post
    Here I just got done searching the thread and come here to find someone told me after I decided to go looking. Thanks anyway. It's now in the first post.
    Except you put it under the 7th Ed. Guides, when it clearly has a bunch of rules referencing 6th Ed.

    I also updated this.

    Major changes: Bones of Osrak are OP. If you're Imperial Fists and your HQ is a Librarian and not Pedro Kantor, bring Sentinels of Terra. 'Everything Scores' also means that Legion Detachments aren't completely useless anymore.

    Also, here's the link to Space Marines. There's a link included in there to the Supplements. So, maybe you can delete the Supplements link in the OP? ...I don't know. I'm not in charge anymore.


    Unfortunately, my Google-fu appears to have failed me for the first time ever, and I can't find Wraith's write up of the Tyranid supplements - and, even if I did, I don't think they're updated for 7th, but, since I can't find them anyway, I don't even know.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2014-07-02 at 08:45 PM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    Okay, got all that sorted out. I kept the supplements link, no reason to get rid of it.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    Quote Originally Posted by Saambell View Post
    Page 10.

    Also, What sort of models should be Priority for a Space Wolves player? Yes I know there is the rumored update coming, but considering I only have 27 Grey Hunters with 5 plasmaguns among them, a land speeder, 1 rhino, 1 drop pod, 2 rune priests, a wolf lord with Fist and Claw, 4 rocket longfangs, 3 hammernators, a double claw terminator and an assultcannon Terminator I feel like there should be some models that are an auto pick for any wolf player no matter how the rules turn out.
    Apart from the terminators being overpriced, I'd say you're fine. I'd probably go with picking up additional transports and maybe some melta.

    On Space Wolves Lord of War: Logan may or may not get the LoW treatment, but I find it far more likely he'll stay an HQ, and Bjorn will be the Wolves' LoW instead. And since he's already a vehicle, they're under less limitations, so he could end up really being the biggest, baddest dreadnaught in the game. Probably still cheaper than, say, a C'tan or Warhound or even a Baneblad, but maybe at Knight level? Of course, his weapons would need an upgrade if they did that, but frankly, they already did.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    I don't. It's really, really stupid. Lords of War are not HQs, so you need to take another HQ, which means you're losing points. And then, Infantry-sized models are now in the same slot as Super-Heavies with ~10 Hull Points. It's absurd. Then you've got the metas which have unilaterally banned Lords of War (partly because they don't know how to use them properly), where banning special characters hasn't happened since like, 4th Edition.

    No really. That's your choice. Ghaz or a Stompa. Mephiston or a Typhon. It doesn't make any sense. The comparisons aren't there.
    Yeah. It's really, really dumb.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    Given that currently heavy support/fast attack give away points but get nothing in return in Big guns/scouring, would it be a worthwhile houserule to give them objective secured since everything is scoring anyway?

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    Quote Originally Posted by Drasius View Post
    Given that currently heavy support/fast attack give away points but get nothing in return in Big guns/scouring, would it be a worthwhile houserule to give them objective secured since everything is scoring anyway?
    But everything isn't Scoring. The whole point of Troops being so good right now is Objective Secured. If you start handing out OS to other units, Troops become less useful. If you don't want to give up points in Big Guns/Scouring, your only option is to simply not take Heavy or Fast choices. But then you gimp your army, and that's kind of the point. You wont be giving up points to your opponent, but you also wont have those choices in your army. ...That's basically the point.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    All my Russes are now in HQ. Problem solved.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    Do you guys find yourself helping people at your FLGS when it comes to 40k? We have a couple players that never play too good and build really poor lists, but I'm never sure if I should give advice or just play against them until they ask for input.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    Quote Originally Posted by Requizen View Post
    Do you guys find yourself helping people at your FLGS when it comes to 40k? We have a couple players that never play too good and build really poor lists, but I'm never sure if I should give advice or just play against them until they ask for input.
    Depends on the person. There are some people that losing really doesn't bother much (I'm one of them). That said, when I was still playing before the GW store closed down I also never minded when my opponents pointed out things that could've helped me.

    I would say broach the topic after the game is over. "Have you tried this unit/using X unit like this/etc?" Tone is also important. It's really easy to come across the wrong way even if it's not what you meant.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    Quote Originally Posted by Saambell View Post
    Page 10.

    Also, What sort of models should be Priority for a Space Wolves player? Yes I know there is the rumored update coming, but considering I only have 27 Grey Hunters with 5 plasmaguns among them, a land speeder, 1 rhino, 1 drop pod, 2 rune priests, a wolf lord with Fist and Claw, 4 rocket longfangs, 3 hammernators, a double claw terminator and an assultcannon Terminator I feel like there should be some models that are an auto pick for any wolf player no matter how the rules turn out.
    The basic core of my list has been for quite some time...
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    Grey Hunters x 10 Wolf Standard 2x Plasma Gun

    Grey Hunters x 10 Wolf Standard 2x Plasma Gun

    Long Fangs x 6 5 x Missile Launchers


    Other things I add as they are needed / whimsy takes me.
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    Wolf Guard Melta pod. 5 Power armour wolf guard with combi meltas in a drop pod. Switch to plasma if you're up against monstrous creatures. Drop down, kill something big, don't expect them to do anything else

    Rune Priest. Not as useful as they once were with the utter loss of the Runic Weapon and Space Wolf psychic powers but still good, especially slinging divination on a bike to keep up with...

    Thunderwolves. Big, fast nasty, tough, murderous in an assault and my favoured tool for utterly dictating what my opponent does. This is usually stand up a floor in a building. It makes the wolves useless but also means they're not going anywhere. Unfortunately their mighty leadership of 8 and the amount of fire they take means they really need to be lead by...

    Wolf Lord on a Wolf. The Wolf lord is very versatile when it comes to killing things by hitting them very hard and putting him on a wolf makes him T and S 5 which is worth it. Saga of the Bear means he's not dying instantly and Saga of the Warrior Born means he's going to butcher tar pits. Runic armour is a must. Power Fist, Lightning Claw and Belt of Russ is a good combo, giving you Initiative value shredding and Strength 10 hits but I favour Thunder Hammer + Storm Shield for smacking big things and insta gibbing Daemon Princes after surviving long enough to smack them.

    Vindicator. Reasonably cheap, reasonably tough, big gun. Use 2 for true horror.

    Terminators. These are expensive once you start adding weapons but, for a basic termi, they're actually 7 points cheaper than anyone elses with Counter Attack as standard. When you use the Wolf Guard rules that say that for every 5 models in the squad, you can put in a heavy weapon. This is not every 5 terminators. So that drop pod with 5 melta power armoured guys ? Pay for 6, make 1 a terminator, give him a cyclone launcher. He won't have a power fist or anything but have him chilling with the Long Fangs and he won't need it (probably).

    Wolf Guard. Are the one unit that make a Land Raider Redeemer really playable in my, granted, whimsical and unorthodox opinion. This is because you can take it as a dedicated transport, stick 5 Terminators / whatever in it along with a character with Saga of the Hunter and Outflank that monster right into their lines and burn your enemies. Hilarity ensues against Tau as an AV 14 brick loaded with a decent assault unit appears.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    Quote Originally Posted by Saambell View Post
    I feel like there should be some models that are an auto pick for any wolf player no matter how the rules turn out.
    Well that's not true. Oh Rune Priests...

    Like Timberwolf said, the only two units guaranteed to stay pretty much the same are Grey Hunters and Long Fangs. However, if Blood/Sky/Swift Claws suddenly become better (a points decrease would be nice), then you maybe wont need Grey Hunters either. There's no way to tell if GW is looking at Grey Hunters right now and are thinking "People like Grey Hunters...Let's nerf 'em." Grey Hunters might need to pay points to have three weapons, and Long Fangs might need to pay points to have Split Fire. But neither of those things will change how important those two units are. The only way Grey Hunters and Long Fangs become not-great is if GW makes a new unit that can replace them which is better somehow - and we can't predict new units.

    At least one Drop Pod => Three Drop Pods are even better though. Pick and choose what comes down in the first turn. Dark Angels/6 and Space Marines/6 both have Drop Pods. It's highly unlikely that a new Space Wolves/7 Codex will rock the boat and change how they work. Maybe a 5-point increase to represent that Space Wolves are coming out of them with Counter-Attack for free, but, I'm not expecting that.

    Anything that nets you Wolf Points or is unique to the Wolves' Codex is susceptible to change. Anything (i.e; Sagas).

    I predict that Land Raiders (plural) are going to be good for a long time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Timberwolf View Post
    Wolf Lord on a Wolf: [...] I favour Thunder Hammer + Storm Shield
    I think everyone does. 'Cause you don't have to pay even more points for a Belt of Russ - which is worse - and this build will become pretty bad if GW decides to drop Saga of the Bear.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2014-07-03 at 09:38 PM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    On preparing for the Space Wolves release: Well, things we share with Codex Marines are highly unlikely to change. So, drop pods will still be good, as will land raiders and vindicators. As for the rest, well... Who knows? Grey Hunters may or may not get nerfed, although personally I think after their wargear costs get adjusted, they'll be fine as is (Compare to a tactical marine. Counter Attack+Acute Senses vs. Chapter tactics and Combat squads comes out pretty even, maybe even tilted towards the tactical marine. +1 point for the close combat weapon and you've got the current Grey Hunter). Missile Fangs will get a points increase, but lascannons and plasma cannons will actually be available at sane prices, so you can try those out.*

    *I have no inside knowledge on wargear costs. I'm just assuming they'll stick with 6th edition's general rule of eliminating wargear discounts. And update the heavy weapons pricing. So, you should probably wait, but these are a safe bet.

    ------------------------------------------------
    So, finally got a look at Stronghold Assault. Well, one datasheet. But, well...

    Wall of Martyrs Bunker -70 points
    -Ammunition supply

    what. 70 points for a (immobilized) land raider with 4 fire points and room for 20 models, and the models using those fire points re-roll ones. Oh, and you can stick a comms relay or emplaced gun on the roof if you want.

    Also, got in a short, abortive game today with my Mech-crons (which is slowly dropping in points as I drop more and more pointless stuff. Assuming I've done the math right, I'm now down to 1251). Not worth a battle report (Sorry about promising them and not delivering- I tend to forget what happened after a night's sleep), but I did confirm something. Mephiston in a Stormraven is... kind of silly. Sure, he only has iron arm every other game. But when he does? He's charging with... 6? S10 AP 2 Force Weapon attacks at initiative. No invulnerable save? Who cares, he's T9. And if he's also got endurance, well... FNP 4+ and IWND makes him even harder to care. About the only thing that could kill him is a lord of war. But then, he costs half as much as most of them.

    My opponent's list, for the curious.
    HQ: Mephiston, Lord of Death
    Troops: 5 Assault Marines
    -Meltagun, Melta bombs on Sarge
    -Land Raider with Multi-melta

    5 Assault marines
    -Meltagun, Melta bombs on Sarge
    -Land Raider Crusader with Multi-melta

    Elites: Blender-naught

    Heavy Support: Stormraven*

    *I... think it had an assault cannon and a multi-melta, but it only shot once, so I don't remember for sure.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    Quote Originally Posted by Squark View Post
    So, finally got a look at Stronghold Assault. Well, one datasheet. But, well...

    Wall of Martyrs Bunker -70 points
    -Ammunition supply

    what. 70 points for a (immobilized) land raider with 4 fire points and room for 20 models, and the models using those fire points re-roll ones. Oh, and you can stick a comms relay or emplaced gun on the roof if you want.
    That doesn't have the Land Raider's guns or mobility. And uses the building damage chart, which is considerably nastier.

    Though it's really eight fire points; it has two slits with the Wide Fire Points rule.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    Quote Originally Posted by Squark View Post
    On preparing for the Space Wolves release: Well, things we share with Codex Marines are highly unlikely to change. So, drop pods will still be good, as will land raiders and vindicators. As for the rest, well... Who knows? Grey Hunters may or may not get nerfed, although personally I think after their wargear costs get adjusted, they'll be fine as is (Compare to a tactical marine. Counter Attack+Acute Senses vs. Chapter tactics and Combat squads comes out pretty even, maybe even tilted towards the tactical marine. +1 point for the close combat weapon and you've got the current Grey Hunter). Missile Fangs will get a points increase, but lascannons and plasma cannons will actually be available at sane prices, so you can try those out.*

    *I have no inside knowledge on wargear costs. I'm just assuming they'll stick with 6th edition's general rule of eliminating wargear discounts. And update the heavy weapons pricing. So, you should probably wait, but these are a safe bet.

    ------------------------------------------------
    So, finally got a look at Stronghold Assault. Well, one datasheet. But, well...

    Wall of Martyrs Bunker -70 points
    -Ammunition supply

    what. 70 points for a (immobilized) land raider with 4 fire points and room for 20 models, and the models using those fire points re-roll ones. Oh, and you can stick a comms relay or emplaced gun on the roof if you want.

    Also, got in a short, abortive game today with my Mech-crons (which is slowly dropping in points as I drop more and more pointless stuff. Assuming I've done the math right, I'm now down to 1251). Not worth a battle report (Sorry about promising them and not delivering- I tend to forget what happened after a night's sleep), but I did confirm something. Mephiston in a Stormraven is... kind of silly. Sure, he only has iron arm every other game. But when he does? He's charging with... 6? S10 AP 2 Force Weapon attacks at initiative. No invulnerable save? Who cares, he's T9. And if he's also got endurance, well... FNP 4+ and IWND makes him even harder to care. About the only thing that could kill him is a lord of war. But then, he costs half as much as most of them.

    My opponent's list, for the curious.
    HQ: Mephiston, Lord of Death
    Troops: 5 Assault Marines
    -Meltagun, Melta bombs on Sarge
    -Land Raider with Multi-melta

    5 Assault marines
    -Meltagun, Melta bombs on Sarge
    -Land Raider Crusader with Multi-melta

    Elites: Blender-naught

    Heavy Support: Stormraven*

    *I... think it had an assault cannon and a multi-melta, but it only shot once, so I don't remember for sure.
    I don't recall Mephistons or Stormraven rules all that well, but doesn't he tend to disappear on the turn he appears, as every gun in the opposing army is turned his way?

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Unfortunately, my Google-fu appears to have failed me for the first time ever, and I can't find Wraith's write up of the Tyranid supplements - and, even if I did, I don't think they're updated for 7th, but, since I can't find them anyway, I don't even know.

    Your Google-fu is weak, grasshopper.


    I haven't updated it to 7th, but quite frankly I don't think there's anything in it that applies; the good Formations are still good, the bad ones are still awful, and I don't think any of them involve the new psychic rules, so it's probably good to go as is.

    [EDIT] Codex: Iyanden is not far off as well. Apart from adding a line or two about units of Spiritseers now being slightly better as they generate lots of Warp Charges for your Farseer (but they're still too expensive with crappy powers) it's more or less compliant with 7th, too.

    [EDIT AGAIN] ....Which I have just done. Codex: Iyanden is now 7th ed. proof.
    Last edited by Wraith; 2014-07-04 at 08:19 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    I don't recall Mephistons or Stormraven rules all that well, but doesn't he tend to disappear on the turn he appears, as every gun in the opposing army is turned his way?
    perhaps when Biomance does not make him a T9 2+ FNP monster?
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    If we're mentioning guides that have been updated to 7th, my Tau and Enclaves guides have been updated for a while now.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tome View Post
    If we're mentioning guides that have been updated to 7th, my Tau and Enclaves guides have been updated for a while now.
    Edited.

    Is there always this much bookkeeping when we start a new thread?
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade Paladin View Post
    Edited.

    Is there always this much bookkeeping when we start a new thread?
    This is why we always try and leave things to Cheesegear

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    @Tome: You have the seeker missiles on the Sunshark as AP1, when they are actually AP3.

    Also, since it seems to have been lost in the thread change, what do people think of Wraithblades and a spiritseer as additions to a Tau army? I really like how they look, and I think having a durable assault unit would be a nice addition, but I am not familiar enough with assault units and such to know for sure how good it would be.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade Paladin View Post
    Is there always this much bookkeeping when we start a new thread?
    No. But it is something I expected when the new Edition came out.
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