Level Adjustment

[Drakar]

Can someone explain level adjustment to me?

[Matthew]

As I understand it, if you have an LA +1 Race, then a Fighter 1 of that Race is treated as though he is Character Level 2 [Fighter 1 + LA 1].

[Arceliar]

As I understand it, if you have an LA +1 Race, then a Fighter 1 of that Race is treated as though he is Character Level 2 [Fighter 1 + LA 1].

That's close...

LA is like a fake level. It costs more exp and stuff. It does not however change your effective number of hit dice, skill points, grant feats, etc.

For example, a level 6 character with 3 adjustment would have feats from level 1, 3, and 6, but have as much exp as a level 9 character. Really, except for the exp thing they're treated in virtually every way as a character of their class levels (plus any racial hit dice).

[oriong]

Level Adjustment is a value added to your class levels and racial Hit Dice (if any) to determine your effective character level.

Your effective Character level (ECL) is used to determine how much experience you recieve and how much it takes to level up. one of the core races has ECL equal to their class levels. Your ECL also determines what level of game your character is suitable for, so in a party of 6th level characters only characters with ELC 6 may play (so someone with 5 class levels and LA 1 could play, or simply 6 class levels and LA 0).

[Drakar]

So, If I have a level 1 drow fighter, would he have more hp then a LA0 fighter?

[Douglas]

No. Level adjustment counts for XP required to level, XP received, recommended wealth by level, and what level party the character should be in. Nothing else is affected. Skill points, feats, base attack bonus, saves, ability score increases, and hit points are all based on hit dice only. Some races have racial hit dice as well as a level adjustment, and those racial hit dice do count for HD-based things, but the level adjustment does not.

[Krimm_Blackleaf]

So, If I have a level 1 drow fighter, would he have more hp then a LA0 fighter?

A level 1 drow fighter is the equivalent of a 3rd level character because of it's +2 level adjustment. So a fighter of equivalent level (3rd) has vastly more hit points than the drow.

[oriong]

No, LA comes with no benefits of class levels or HD, it's purely there to calculate experience.

A level 1 drow fighter and a level 1 human fighter have 1d10 + ccon hit points, however the drow fighter is an ECL 3 character, while the human fighter is ECL 1. This means the drow will gain experience and level up as a level 3 character, while the human does it as a level 1 character.

[TheOOB]

No, you don't gain any hp from LA, in fact creatures with a LA tend to have less hp, for example,

A drow has LA +2. Lets say the drow also has 3 fighter levels. Their ECL now equals 5 (2+3=5) even though they only have three class levels. When they hit 15,000xp they can then level up to ECL 6, and take another class level(most likely another level of fighter).

On the other hand, humans have a LA of 0. So a human fighter of ECL 5 would have 5 fighter levels. They still need 15,000 total xp to level up, but would still have two more class levels (and thus two more levels of hp) then the drow.

[Drakar]

Ah, Now I understand LA. Thanks you guys! ^_^

[AtomicKitKat]

I think LA doesn't count for pre-requisites either, which sort of sucks for LA characters. :/

[Jack Mann]

It does count for starting wealth by level, though. Otherwise, LA characters would be utterly hosed.

[Thomas]

LA is used for starting wealth and for experience calculations (both XP for CR, and for XP required for each level) only, nothing else - not prereqs, nothing. Unless ECL is referred to, level means "character level" ( = Hit Dice), which is used for other calculations.

There's some difference of opinion about what to use for Leadership. I'd say that by the RAW, you use character level, not ECL, to calculate the number of followers and the maximum ECL of the cohort, but that'll hose characters with LA again.

[LotharBot]

Think of LA as levels where you gain 0 HP, 0 skills, and 0 feats/class features. Instead, you get your racial bonuses.

[JaronK]

LA does count for the Leadership feat, though.

JaronK

[daggaz]

LA over +1 is generally considered a bad choice, as your character will be that much farther behind than the rest of the guys, and you get that much less experience for killing the same kind of monsters. Being one level behind isnt soooo bad... but two and you start to feel gimped.

Of course a general exception is if everybody in the group is starting out with a higher LA.

[Thomas]

Whether LA is bad or not depends greatly on what ECL the PCs start out at, and whether buy-off is being used (and, if it is, what levels the campaign is going to get into). If buy-off is in use, all players might as well take a LA +1 or +2 race.

[Silkenfist]

I've considered LA be a handy way to get new people into existing groups. Want to convince someone of roleplaying and only have this 4th level party to put them in? Give them an uber-cool race, shrug at the LA and send them with a group at the same ECL. It will be a bit rocky until they have more class levels, but it does work surprisingly well.

[Orzel]

Centaur Fighter! LA +2 and 4 racial HD = nice

LA is nice for classes that get most of their nice stuff in the first 10 or so levels and don't have many things based on class level. A LA wizard may be bad but a ranger of a LA race with good stats is pretty okay.

[Zeb The Troll]

Whether LA is bad or not depends greatly on what ECL the PCs start out at, and whether buy-off is being used (and, if it is, what levels the campaign is going to get into). If buy-off is in use, all players might as well take a LA +1 or +2 race.

On a similar note, I never really understood the concept of the buy-off. My current GM only allows SRD so I only look at the PHB, DMG, and MM1 so I don't often buy other stuff (I have Complete Scoundrel [a waste] and Complete Warrior but since I can't use them I'm not terribly familiar with them).

[Piccamo]

LA buyoff is in the SRD. http://www.systemreferencedocuments....thedRaces.html

[Zeb The Troll]

LA buyoff is in the SRD. http://www.systemreferencedocuments....thedRaces.html

As much as I may like that site, it is NOT strictly SRD. There's stuff in there that shouldn't be. For instance, anything in the Unearthed Arcana isn't even a source for SRD (in fact, not even everything in the PHB is SRD). To be sure, here is the official WotC maintained SRD. You will not find LA buy off in these documents.

A more accurate, web enhanced, SRD that isn't maintained by WotC is d20.srd.org, which I and many people here use.

That did help to explain LA buy off, though, so thank you.

*I've had to become a little familiar with the legalities behind this because our current GM is hoping to publish some stuff to use with d20 so it's critical that he not include anything in the books that's not officially Open Game Content. That's why we can't use anything but SRD. He's afraid (justifiably so) that if he hears about or sees us use something from another source, he may inadvertently reference it and get in some deep doo-doo with the spooky ones.

[Were-Sandwich]

Unearthed Arcana hs the OGL thing at the front, stating its OGL. www.d20srd.org is the most commonly referenced SRD site, so I think if Wizards didn't want it there, they would have noticed and got it removed by now.

[Zeb The Troll]

Unearthed Arcana hs the OGL thing at the front, stating its OGL. www.d20srd.org is the most commonly referenced SRD site, so I think if Wizards didn't want it there, they would have noticed and got it removed by now.

Hmm, two points about this.

1.) I was stating www.d20.srd.org as a legal site that has no known violations of the Open Gaming License and contains only Open Game Content.

2.) [nitpick]A publication is not OGL. OGL is a license. A work can be OGL compliant by not referencing any Wizards material that is not specifically listed as Open Game Content (and some other stuff). Strictly speaking, this means that a publication from any source which contains no OGC is OGL compliant. Wizards does not have to follow the OGL since they are the owners of said content and said license and they get to decide what is OGC and what is not. It's a matter of semantics, maybe, but used incorrectly (as I have in the past and why I know this) it can be the source of confusion.[/nitpick]

That being said, I presume that you mean that Unearthed Arcana has a statement in the first page or so that declares that the material in this product is Open Game Content, which is news to me (mainly because I never figured WotC would provide another OGC product so I never bothered to look).

Out of curiosity, reading that little blurb, is the entire book OGC or just sections of it?

[Person_Man]

Think of any character or monster as a combination of three things:

1) Racial Hit Dice
2) Character Levels
3) Level Adjustment

Add those three things together, and you get your Effective Character Level (ECL), which is what you base your experience progression off of.

So, a normal Monster Manual Lizardfolk has 2 Racial Hit Dice, and +1 Level Adjustment. It's Monster Manual stats reflect this base.

If you wanted to play a Lizardfolk as a PC, you'd also have to take at least one Character Level. For simplicity, let's say you're a 1st level Fighter Lizardfolk.

So now your ECL is 4. For everything related to Experience, you're a 4th level character.

But for most spells and effects, you only have 3 Hit Dice, your Racial Levels plus your Character levels. Level adjustment doesn't count towards whether or not a Sleep spell effects you, for example.

Another source of Level Adjustment are Templates, like Celestial, Fiendish, or Vampire. These also add level adjustment and effect how without necessarily adding Hit Dice.

And some races (including all base Character Races) don't have any Racial Hit Dice. Instead, they only use Character Classes or NPC Classes.

The entire rigmarole is pretty confusing, mostly because when D&D was originally written, players rarely played non-standard races. But then WotC learned that everyone wants a chance to play everything possible, and they had to come up with a rules mechanic for it that didn't negate what they had previously written.

Also, in my opinion most things that have a Level Adjustment are rarely worth taking. There are a few notable exceptions, such as Mineral Warrior, Ferrel, Entomanothrope, or Mulhorandi Divine Minion. But in most cases, the Hit Points, Saving Throws, Caster Levels, class abilities, and BAB (which also directly helps determine the number of attacks you get each round) far outweigh the benefits you get from a Level Adjusted race or template. This is especially true of any race with Racial Hit Dice, which tend to be pretty worthless.

[Fax Celestis]

Hmm, two points about this.

1.) I was stating www.d20.srd.org as a legal site that has no known violations of the Open Gaming License and contains only Open Game Content.

2.) [nitpick]A publication is not OGL. OGL is a license. A work can be OGL compliant by not referencing any Wizards material that is not specifically listed as Open Game Content (and some other stuff). Strictly speaking, this means that a publication from any source which contains no OGC is OGL compliant. Wizards does not have to follow the OGL since they are the owners of said content and said license and they get to decide what is OGC and what is not. It's a matter of semantics, maybe, but used incorrectly (as I have in the past and why I know this) it can be the source of confusion.[/nitpick]

That being said, I presume that you mean that Unearthed Arcana has a statement in the first page or so that declares that the material in this product is Open Game Content, which is news to me (mainly because I never figured WotC would provide another OGC product so I never bothered to look).

Out of curiosity, reading that little blurb, is the entire book OGC or just sections of it?

Nine-tenths of the book is OGC. There are small sidebars that are not, just as some of the MM isn't OGC (Beholders, Illithids, et al). The same holds true for the Expanded Psionic Handbook (Thri-Kreen are not OGC, but psionics themselves are) and Deities and Demigods (The gods themselves are not OGC, but deity creation rules are).

EDIT: Further, the d20 licence allows references to existing material, but no quoting or reproduction thereof.

[Silvershadow]

I think LA doesn't count for pre-requisites either, which sort of sucks for LA characters. :/

That is correct. And yeah, it sucks. You basically have to treat the LA "levels" as inexistent where anything is concerned except for XP.

Two of my current PCs are LA characters (a Drow and a Shyft), and it does sort of suck in the sense that it feels like I'm leveling up slower than everybody else, not to mention the fact I have to wait longer for feats/classes with prerequisites. On the other hand, as a Shyft I was able to use Ethereal Jaunt once a day for 9 rounds right from the get-go as a level 1 rogue (ECL 3), which, when you think about it, is crazy handy.

[Piccamo]

As much as I may like that site, it is NOT strictly SRD. There's stuff in there that shouldn't be. For instance, anything in the Unearthed Arcana isn't even a source for SRD (in fact, not even everything in the PHB is SRD). To be sure, here is the official WotC maintained SRD. You will not find LA buy off in these documents.

It is OGC and is added to several online SRDs

A more accurate, web enhanced, SRD that isn't maintained by WotC is d20.srd.org, which I and many people here use.

I know all about that one, but cannot access it at work. The one I replied with is accessible here. d20srd.org has the unearthed arcana variants in it, too

That did help to explain LA buy off, though, so thank you.

No problem.

*I've had to become a little familiar with the legalities behind this because our current GM is hoping to publish some stuff to use with d20 so it's critical that he not include anything in the books that's not officially Open Game Content. That's why we can't use anything but SRD. He's afraid (justifiably so) that if he hears about or sees us use something from another source, he may inadvertently reference it and get in some deep doo-doo with the spooky ones.

While that is understandable, he should realize that the UA variants are OGC as well. Everything on that SRD site is, just like d20srd.org.

[kpenguin]

In my nonexpert opinion, LA can severely hamper a character's power level. Why? Lower HD, BAB, and saves for some better abilities. ESPECIALLY when they have racial hit dice. This is CLEARLY indicated when you count CR. The challenge rating of a vampire, for instance, is much lower than its ECL.

[oriong]

In my nonexpert opinion, LA can severely hamper a character's power level. Why? Lower HD, BAB, and saves for some better abilities. ESPECIALLY when they have racial hit dice. This is CLEARLY indicated when you count CR. The challenge rating of a vampire, for instance, is much lower than its ECL.

That's there for a reason, because CR (the difficulty a single monster will cause fighting a group of PCs) and ECL (how powerful a PC a creature is) are very, very different values. The powers of a monster in a PCs hands can be very, very different from an NPCs.