Can you Rudisplork at D&D 2: Sithsnape and the Orcus of Secret House Rules

[Vhaidara]

He won't post them, but they include
SR has a chance to refract the spell and fire it back at the party multiple times
Summons and Calling Require a piece of the creature, and has a 1%/spell level chance of summoning DM fiat (including possibly Orcus with SMI)
Spell Component Pouches don't exist
Spell components must be harvested IC and must be maintained, because if the quality of the component is too poor, it adds a chance of failure
If you take time out of the session to gather components, you are kicked out
Spellcraft and Knowledge skills are useless, but your character knows everything you (the player) knows
A number of spells have been given spell components
Even more spells have had their components modified to cost over 1gp, thus disqualifying them from Eschew materials
Phantasmal Killer was nerfed
You need Line of Sight to teleport
And a few more, but these are a lot of the big ones that have come up.

[Faily]

But... it's your fault that he's doing that. You are making him do the thing you hate. You are the problem player.

Ding-ding-ding!

We have a winner.

[enderlord99]

As i've not read the thread, or care to, what are jedipotters houserules?

We don't know all of them, and neither do his players. They aren't even allowed to.

[A_Moon]

As i've not read the thread, or care to, what are jedipotters houserules?

Short version: We've been asking him that for a whole thread.

Less short version: He hasn't posted a whole list, but ones we do know about include wizards needing to keep track of spell-components, wizards arbitrarily not being allowed to buy replacement components, wizards being threatened with being kicked from the group if they try to gather replacements, and summoning spells having a small chance of summoning ORCUS something other than the intended target (i.e. whatever the DM feels like instead).

Edit: ah, triple ninja'd.

[Nilehus]

"I summon Orcus!"
"No! You summon Bwaaaahh???"

-insert "Mother of God" gif here-

That's... that's genius!

Phantasmal Killer was nerfed

That still makes me laugh.

[Vaz]

I was about to defend them, but as I was typing up one defence, the next point along just made me think, yeh, why bother?

Quite frankly, they're ridiculous houserules, and think you're all being trolled. Ignore him, his points are clearly invalid when making a rational argument. It's like when you go to environmentalist groups parading on TV, instead of speaking to the educated rational intellectuals who organized it, they pick up Hobo-billy with his 3 teeth and ask him his point of view.

[Vhaidara]

Oh, and I forgot to mention
Compromise is wrong (especially in relationships)
The only players you can trust are saints, which he doesn't play with
Logic has no place in the real world

[thethird]

As i've not read the thread, or care to, what are jedipotters houserules?

We don't know. I mean he shared some, but when asked to post them al he repeteadly refused.

I've been Orcused.

[A_Moon]

I was about to defend them, but as I was typing up one defence, the next point along just made me think, yeh, why bother?

Quite frankly, they're ridiculous houserules, and think you're all being trolled. Ignore him, his points are clearly invalid when making a rational argument. It's like when you go to environmentalist groups parading on TV, instead of speaking to the educated rational intellectuals who organized it, they pick up Hobo-billy with his 3 teeth and ask him his point of view.

The thing is, this discussion has spawned so many hilarious quotes that I think it would be a shame to abandon it. Have a look at the previous thread. Once you stop taking it at all seriously it gets pretty amusing.

[jedipotter]

Except they can be a problem. They just fire at will at enemies with SR, waiting for the spell to refract onto their own team. They summon as they wish, away from themsleves, waiting to get a hostile summon.

Well, remember they don't know what has SR, and there is no ''easy, lazy, know everything skill''. they have to role-play to get this information. And they can't just ''memorize the books'', as I have more books.

So he gather components off camera. Because the party isn't going to want to go in when their fire support is out of components. After all, that means you might as well just tell that player to not show up to the session, since they can't do anything. Or, you know, they'll use spells without components.

It must be done on camera. i'm fine if Problem Player does not show up: ''Sorry dude I gotta go cut my old ladies lawn.''

But no one would ever enforce rules like that, would they?

Never say no one.

But you've said before that problem players are the ones that attack the group. So...you want problem players?

Attacking the group as your a jerk: wrong. Attack the group by randomness: ok.

And what if some of the players don't like PvP? This still sounds like something that benefits the "problem" players more.

They just be careful. They try to avoid such things.

Your fun sounds like something Friend Computer would deem mandatory.

Fun is Mandatory End of Line.

[Dr.Gara]

I was about to defend them, but as I was typing up one defence, the next point along just made me think, yeh, why bother?

Quite frankly, they're ridiculous houserules, and think you're all being trolled. Ignore him, his points are clearly invalid when making a rational argument. It's like when you go to environmentalist groups parading on TV, instead of speaking to the educated rational intellectuals who organized it, they pick up Hobo-billy with his 3 teeth and ask him his point of view.

Psh. Using logical skills to know to avoid a topic is the hallmark of optimizer cheating, a true role-player would sit through and enjoy themselves the thread, whether they liked it or not.

[Nilehus]

Psh. Using logical skills to know to avoid a topic is the hallmark of optimizer cheating, a true role-player would sit through and enjoy themselves the thread, whether they liked it or not.

Uh, sure, roll-player. A real role-player would already have gotten slain by Orcus for trying to post.

I love this thread and its predecessor so much.

[Vhaidara]

Well, remember they don't know what has SR, and there is no ''easy, lazy, know everything skill''. they have to role-play to get this information. And they can't just ''memorize the books'', as I have more books.

I think you misunderstand. They don't care if things have SR, they will throw blasts at them anyways, while the people who care wouldn't to avoid frying their teammates.

Also, you are so cute when you make these assumptions about having more books.

It must be done on camera. i'm fine if Problem Player does not show up: ''Sorry dude I gotta go cut my old ladies lawn.''

Except this isn't them not showing up because they have an OoC thing coming up. This is them being disinvited because they aren't going to be able to do anything during the boss fight, also known as the climax, which no one wants to or should have to miss, since that's like letting someone read a book and taking it away from them before they get to read the end.

[eggynack]

Attacking the group as your a jerk: wrong. Attack the group by randomness: ok.

What if you attack the group because you're a jerk, but do so by means of randomness? Thus, you would just take more in the way of risky action, without any particular target in mind, because you seek to sow chaos, and possibly cause arbitrary Orcus shaped harm to party members. Seems like a fair maneuver to me.

[Hazrond]

He'll give him spell components, don't you worry.

... Are there any spells that require Orcus as a component?

But no, he's even said before that even if they're all in a town restocking or whatever, he'll still pull that. Yes, wizards aren't allowed to stock up on components while they're in town. Or out in the wilderness. Or in a dungeon, or between sessions, etc etc etc you see where this is going.

Well... you could cast an Ice Assassin using Orcus as a component

[Kantolin]

Whoops, posted this in the wrong place! Oh well, copy/pasting it...

Well, maybe more like: Don't expect to be a ''Teir 1'' type caster in my game. My rules make everyone much more level and balanced. No spellcaster dominates my game, without a LOT of work.

Ha, so we've graduated from jedipotter 'responding to a single word and ignoring the rest of the post' to 'Not responding at all' to the post! Maybe he's acceded the point?

Problem Players like easy rules that are all good for them, like the default 3X/P rules. Take them away, and the Problem Player does not want to play. That stops them cold. And if they do play, they just want to sit back and be a problem. Take that away from them, and they can't make problems.

Ah, nope. Maybe you missed my post? It's here, in case that is what happened - I know I've been busy!

It points out that this statement is incorrect - complete with examples, and references to two other people's posts with much of the same.

But... it's your fault that he's doing that. You are making him do the thing you hate. You are the problem player.

That certainly explains how he seems to end up playing with so many horrible monsters - he's driving away all the good players.

(I mean yeesh, the guy said Thurbane is a cheating optimizer! Thurbane!)

Edit:

And they can't just ''memorize the books'', as I have more books.

Are you saying you have the best monster knowledge /in the world/?! Nobody can possibly know more about monsters than you - and certainly not anyone whos goal in life is to wreck your game? That's quite a presumption we have there.

[Godskook]

That is not creating a problem, that is creating fun. Having things backfire, or not work out 100% is fun and intresting.

Take for example: The Avengers. Hawkeye bombs the helicarrier and the Hulk looses control. This is ''having Dr. Banner'' backfire, that is do something bad and harmful to the group. So the Hulk rips apart lots of the helicarrier and alomst kills the Black Widow, fights Thor and gets attacked by the jet. I know a lot of people liked this.

Now, if it was set in 3.5 D&D there is no way Dr. Banner would lose control and become the Hulk, as D&D does not have this type of ''backfire''.

And I think that is wrong and boring.

You're conflating "entertaining" and "fun" together, and in this context, they're not the same. The POINT of D&D is to give measured agency in the creation of a shared narrative. This is -the- fun of D&D, and loosing control of your character ala the Hulk denies you this.

In any endevour, you must figure out the type(s) of fun the system you're using supports. For instance, tabletops as a whole do not well-support cutscenes as a form of fun. D&D 3.5 does not support pvp very well, especially social pvp. Playing ranked League of Legends does not support 'abnegation' very well.

Your fundamental problem(optimizers ruining games) comes from your own inability as a DM(as part of the system) to support fun for that level of optimization(This isn't a knock, we all have our limitations). Its very possible to challenge high-end optimizing players, but it demands a lot of the DM, and its perfectly reasonable to say that "we need to play at this optimization level in order to have a good game", but an optimizer isn't cheating. Hell, its important to remember that anything a player does, the DM can do better if and when need be.

[jedipotter]

He won't post them, but they include
SR has a chance to refract the spell and fire it back at the party multiple times

SR reactions is a whole list of effects, both good and bad.. #3 is reflect off the target.

Summons and Calling Require a piece of the creature, and has a 1%/spell level chance of summoning DM fiat (including possibly Orcus with SMI)

True

Spell Component Pouches don't exist
Spell components must be harvested IC and must be maintained, because if the quality of the component is too poor, it adds a chance of failure

True, true.

If you take time out of the session to gather components, you are kicked out

If you waste time.... I don't suffer time wasters. If you don't go shopping while the rest of the group does as your on your phone, we will not stop the game for you twenty minutes later so you can go back and go shopping.

Spellcraft and Knowledge skills are useless, but your character knows everything you (the player) knows

Don'y allow you to identify creatures and spell names with 100% accuracy.

A number of spells have been given spell components

The Conjuration/Summoning spells above, plus all polymorph-like spells.

Even more spells have had their components modified to cost over 1gp, thus disqualifying them from Eschew materials

Any part of a creature, other then animals and vermin, has a cost of at least 1gp or more.

Phantasmal Killer was nerfed

Not technicaly ''mine'', the players voted and I did not care, so I added it.

You need Line of Sight to teleport

Compromise is wrong (especially in relationships)

True.

The only players you can trust are saints, which he doesn't play with

Trust no one.

Logic has no place in the real world

Doctor: "Elephants are Pink."
Doctor: "Nelly is an Elephant."
Doctor: "Therefore, Nelly is Pink.''
Davros "Of course!''
Doctor: "Know what a human would say to that?"
Random nearby human "Elephants aren't Pink......"

[A_Moon]

Doctor: "Elephants are Pink."
Doctor: "Nelly is an Elephant."
Doctor: "Therefore, Nelly is Pink.''
Davros "Of course!''
Doctor: "Know what a human would say to that?"
Random nearby human "Elephants aren't Pink......"

what

I don't even what the Orcus this means.

Edit: I mean, I see it's a Doctor Who quote... But what does it have to do with anything?

[jedipotter]

..........

The DM is always right.
Not agreeing with the DM makes you a dirty cheater.
The DM decides when you succeed or fail (trying to increase your chances of succeeding above 50% is cheating).
The DM says that optimizers are cheaters, they want to promote the boring concept of player agency.
The DM says that people using the unchanged ruleset are cheaters, since it lets players use abilities without a high probability of it horribly backfiring.
The DM says that compromise is wrong.
The DM says that logic has no place in the real world.
Not agreeing with any of the above makes you a problem player.
Problem players are banished to other games, which are boring because they don't include arbitrary causes of failure for every action.

OMG........can I sig that?

[eggynack]

Doctor: "Elephants are Pink."
Doctor: "Nelly is an Elephant."
Doctor: "Therefore, Nelly is Pink.''
Davros "Of course!''
Doctor: "Know what a human would say to that?"
Random nearby human "Elephants aren't Pink......"

Indeed. Fallacious logic has no place in the real world, except insofar as it is used to make points in a poor manner. Good and healthful logic, the kind that doesn't use faulty premises and improperly supported conclusions, very much does have a place in the real world.

[Nilehus]

Doctor: "Elephants are Pink."
Doctor: "Nelly is an Elephant."
Doctor: "Therefore, Nelly is Pink.''
Davros "Of course!''
Doctor: "Know what a human would say to that?"
Random nearby human "Elephants aren't Pink......"

... Did you hear a whooshing sound as you posted that? That was the joke.

[Vhaidara]

If you waste time.... I don't suffer time wasters. If you don't go shopping while the rest of the group does as your on your phone, we will not stop the game for you twenty minutes later so you can go back and go shopping.

This is the first time this has been mentioned. Every time someone has mentioned gathering components, you have said "Nope, you're wasting my time, you're out". Now that person was on their phone while the rest of the group was dealing with their shopping. This is more reasonable. However, since the caster needs to keep track of 5 million times as many items, it is entirely possible that they might need 20 minutes to list off all the things they need and go a Roleplay gathering bat **** and everything else, while the fighter needs about 5 seconds to say "I get some rope".

Trust no one.

And this is why you are a terrible DM who I would never have any desire to play with. You are clearly scarred in ways I do not want to deal with if you hold this opinion.

Doctor: "Elephants are Pink."
Doctor: "Nelly is an Elephant."
Doctor: "Therefore, Nelly is Pink.''
Davros "Of course!''
Doctor: "Know what a human would say to that?"
Random nearby human "Elephants aren't Pink......"

That is a logical conclusion, that begins with a false pretense. That is an argument against false pretenses, not against logic.

[Hazrond]

what

I don't even what the Orcus this means.

Edit: I mean, I see it's a Doctor Who quote... But what does it have to do with anything?

Can i please Sig your earlier quote about the fighter's sword summoning orcus?

[eggynack]

This is the first time this has been mentioned. Every time someone has mentioned gathering components, you have said "Nope, you're wasting my time, you're out". Now that person was on their phone while the rest of the group was dealing with their shopping. This is more reasonable. However, since the caster needs to keep track of 5 million times as many items, it is entirely possible that they might need 20 minutes to list off all the things they need and go a Roleplay gathering bat **** and everything else, while the fighter needs about 5 seconds to say "I get some rope".

Indeed. This is yet more support for the theory that Jedipotter is just really really bad at communicating. Still a lot of problems with the rule system, as were mentioned in the other thread, but at least one less now.

[A_Moon]

Can i please Sig your earlier quote about the fighter's sword summoning orcus?

Please, be my guest

Just watch that your sig doesn't turn into... Well, y'know.

[jedipotter]

Also, you are so cute when you make these assumptions about having more books.

Oh, Ye think so? I've been gaming a long time and have a whole room full of books.

What if you attack the group because you're a jerk, but do so by means of randomness?

I'd see through the cardboard plan and stop you.

Maybe you missed my post?

Sorry if i miss a post. I try to respond to them all. There are Just. So. Many. Posts. And ''Kantolin'' is close to ''Keledrath'' and it's easy to mix the two of you up. How about changing your name to something like Orcus Borkus or something?

[A_Moon]

Jedi, I'd like you to explain what you meant by that pink elephants thing. Because it kinda didn't make any sense.

[Vhaidara]

It was a Doctor Who quote about logic with a false pretense.

Welcome to the internet, Jedipotter, world of PDFs. I have a dropbox folder full of books that I share with my gaming group. If I find a book not in there, I find a pdf of it and put it in there.

How do you stop the person who is just not caring about the risks he takes? Ban the things he's being risky with?

[Hazrond]

Please, be my guest

Just watch that your sig doesn't turn into... Well, y'know.

Actually, i dont im rather new to forums i used to only watch