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    Firbolg in the Playground
     
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    Default It's all the Rage around here...

    So yesterday there was good thread on the new alternate class abilities from the new Cityscape book. One of the useful ones replaces a Barbarian's Rage (+4 Str, +4 Con, +2 Wil, -2AC, free action during your turn) with Ferocity (+4 Str, +4 Dex, -2 ranged attacks beyond 30 feet, immediate action so that it can effect Initiative).

    Note that it changes the class feature entirely, and that its an unnamed bonus. Which means that if can pick up Rage from another class feature, then you can stack them.

    Here's a list of all the Rage classes and prestige classes I know about, please post anything I missed:

    Barbarian: Ferocity or Rage
    Battle Howler of Gruumsh: Rage
    Bear Warrior: Improves your Rage, Wildshape into a Bear
    Bloodclaw Master: Shifting
    Celebrant of Sharess: Fury of the Tigress (same effect as Rage for one round per Cleric level, I'm not sure if it stacks).
    Chameleon: Rage, Ability Boost, Human or Doppelganger only
    Champion of Gwynharwyf: Stacks with Barbarian levels for Rage
    Druidic Avenger: Rage, Wildshape
    Eye of Gruumsh: Stacks with Barbarian levels for Rage, Orc or Half-Orc only
    Firestorm Berserker: Stacks with Barbarian levels for Rage
    Fist of the Forest: Feral Trance, +4 Dex and a bite attack
    Frenzied Berserker: Frenzy, really powerful, really really difficult to control
    Half-Orc Paragon: Rage, Half-Orc Only
    Nature's Warrior: Variable
    Passion Cleric Domain: Rage
    Singh Rager: Fury, 3.0 - Oriental Adventures
    Warshaper: +4 Str and Con when Wildshaped
    Warhulk: +2 Str per level.
    Weretouched Master: Variable, Shifter only
    Wild Runner: Primal Scream, Elf or Half Elf only


    Putting this together, I'm thinking that a Human Barbarian 1/Druidic Avenger 5 (or Wildshape Ranger)/Warshaper 4/Chameleon 10 could Wildshape into a Deinonychus (4 attacks, pounce, 19 Str, 15 Dex, 19 Con) and get:

    Ferocity: +4 Str +4 Dex
    Rage: +4 Str +4 Con
    Warshaper: +4 Str +4 Con
    Ability Boon: +6 to any 2 stats, probably Str and Con

    For a grand total of +18 Str, +4 Dex, +18 Con, or 37 Str, 19 Dex, 37 Con (+260 hit points), BEFORE anyone in your party casts a buff spell on you (and trust me, you're going to want someone to cast a Contingency Heal on you).

    Now it sucks that you'll only be able to pull off the full combo once per day, but even then you can walk around as a Deinonychus 5 hours a day with some pretty strong bonuses.

    So, how many different Rage or other similar ability boosting abilities can you fit into one ECL 20 PC?
    Last edited by Person_Man; 2010-02-25 at 03:37 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Everyman's Avatar

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    Default Re: It's all the Rage around here...

    I can't think of any more Rage abilties, but you have a mistake on your list. Warshaper gives you a constant +4 to Str and Con.
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    Default Re: It's all the Rage around here...

    There's the Bloodclaw Master, too.

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    Default Re: It's all the Rage around here...

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarkahn View Post
    I can't think of any more Rage abilties, but you have a mistake on your list. Warshaper gives you a constant +4 to Str and Con.
    From the Warshaper text:
    When using your shape-changing ability, gain a +4 bonus to Strength and a +4 bonus to Constitution.
    So its only constant if you're using your shape-changing ability all day. But most Druids will be in a Wildshaped form all day, so yeah, its pretty much constant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fax_Celestis View Post
    There's the Bloodclaw Master, too.
    Does Bloodclaw Master give you Rage, or just stack for Rage?

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    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: It's all the Rage around here...

    Actually, I thought it gave you Frenzy, which is Ragelike. But I'm AFB right now, so I couldn't tell you for certain.

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    Default Re: It's all the Rage around here...

    It gives you shifting.
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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: It's all the Rage around here...

    P_Man, what book are you getting your Warshaper info from? I have the Complete Warrior in front of me, and it says you get +4 to Str and Con as a supernatural ability...period.

    Are you using an older/different edition? Perhaps you have your name wrong?
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    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: It's all the Rage around here...

    Quote Originally Posted by Were-Sandwich View Post
    It gives you shifting.
    Right! I do forget what the particulars on it are, though.

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    Default Re: It's all the Rage around here...

    For that restriction, you have to look in the paragraph at the very beginning of the class features list, which states "the class features function only when the warshaper is in a form other than her own."
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    Default Re: It's all the Rage around here...

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarkahn View Post
    P_Man, what book are you getting your Warshaper info from? I have the Complete Warrior in front of me, and it says you get +4 to Str and Con as a supernatural ability...period.

    Are you using an older/different edition? Perhaps you have your name wrong?
    I don't have it in front of me, I'm just quoting from the web, and I don't want to post where for fear of breaking board rules. But its the internet and you have the book, so you win.

    But I'm pretty sure that somewhere in the class description it says that you only gain the Warshaper abilities while you are using your shape-changing ability. Maybe its in the fluff text (i.e., meaningless).

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: It's all the Rage around here...

    douglas is correct. I hadn't noticed that paragraph till now.
    ...
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but would it be smarter to simply list that as part of each ability or make a note of that fact somewhere OTHER than were one normal just writes "All the following are the class features..." it seems that would have made so much more sense.
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    Default Re: It's all the Rage around here...

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarkahn View Post
    douglas is correct. I hadn't noticed that paragraph till now.
    ...
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but would it be smarter to simply list that as part of each ability or make a note of that fact somewhere OTHER than were one normal just writes "All the following are the class features..." it seems that would have made so much more sense.
    I couldn't agree more. But then again, WotC is known for cruddy copy editing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fax_Celestis View Post
    Right! I do forget what the particulars on it are, though.
    I Googled Shifting and it came up as +2 Str and a natural attack. Bloodclaw master also has a bunch of other nifty abilities, so it might be a good alternative to Wildshape based builds.

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    Default Re: It's all the Rage around here...

    How about nature's warrior from complete warrior, doesnt give rage but stacks with wildshape and gives some extra powers when shaped

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    Default Re: It's all the Rage around here...

    Quote Originally Posted by Weasel of Doom View Post
    How about nature's warrior from complete warrior, doesnt give rage but stacks with wildshape and gives some extra powers when shaped
    Thanks. I've added it to the list because I'm a completionist, but Nature's Warrior doesn't give you any bonuses to your stats, and the bonuses it does provide tend to be pretty minor.

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    Default Re: It's all the Rage around here...

    You can be an anthropomorphic badger...
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    Default Re: It's all the Rage around here...

    Is it just me, or does nearly every unbalanced build have levels of warshaper in it?

    Me thinks I will ban that prestige class if any of my players ever ask for it. That is, when I next DM 3.5.

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    Default Re: It's all the Rage around here...

    Quote Originally Posted by ken-do-nim View Post
    Is it just me, or does nearly every unbalanced build have levels of warshaper in it?

    Me thinks I will ban that prestige class if any of my players ever ask for it. That is, when I next DM 3.5.
    Actually, levels of Warshaper tend to be less useful then levels of Druid in the long run.

    Warshaper 3 grants:

    Immunity to Crit hits and Stun
    +1 Size bonus to your natural weapon damage
    +4 Str and Con
    +5 ft reach on your natural weapons

    Warshaper 4 gets you Fast Healing 1, not enough to be useful in combat, and not really meaningful since by mid-levels your Cleric can usually heal everyone in the party quite easily multiple times. Warshaper 5 lets you Wildshape faster, which is pretty useless, since most things that can Wildshape do so way before combat.

    But Warshaper doesn't stack with your Druid levels to determine what you can Wildshape into, and it doesn't stack with your levels to determine spellcasting.

    A normal mid to high level Druid can turn into a Plant or Elemental, gaining better immunities, much larger Stat bonuses from turning into more powerful creatures, and better reach and damage from larger size. This is especially true if your DM lets you use the various expansion Monster Manuals. So while in the short run Warshaper 3 might help, in the long run you're robbing yourself of access to much better spells and Wildshape forms.

    Warshaper is primarily a good choice for non-Druid builds that somehow qualify, usually by being a Changeling, Bear Warrior, or Wildshape Ranger. That way you get good bonuses that are stronger then the standard melee classes usually get. A Changeling Barbarian 4/Warshaper 3/Chameleon X, for example. It will certainly make you more powerful then a standard Barbarian or Ranger or whatever, but you'll still be less powerful then a core Druid.

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    Default Re: It's all the Rage around here...

    Also on the 3.0 but easily adaptable side of things there's Singh Rager (I love that class) from Oriental Adventures and Berzerk (really really easy prerequisites) from Dieties and Demigods.
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    NecromancerGirl

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    Default Re: It's all the Rage around here...

    Quote Originally Posted by Person_Man View Post
    Warshaper 3 grants:

    (...)
    +1 Size bonus to your natural weapon damage
    IMO, it's much better to go with extra natural weapon, than increasing the damage of your existant natural weapon. Extra natural weapon = extra attack. And that Extra attack+1/2STR is probably more damage than the boost you'd get from increasing your claws' size.
    Quote Originally Posted by Person_Man View Post
    A normal mid to high level Druid can turn into a Plant or Elemental, gaining better immunities, much larger Stat bonuses from turning into more powerful creatures, and better reach and damage from larger size.
    Did they change this is some errata? Last time I read it the Druid didn't gain special qualities until elemental form. His plant form only has the special attacks of a plant, and that does not include any imunity (not even to crits =P).
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    Default Re: It's all the Rage around here...

    Might as well throw this out there for what it's worth. Thrall of Kostchchie from Dragon(circa July 2006). Gives you rage at first level.

    One interesting thing to note about rage. Sometimes they say "stacks with Barbarian levels"(Eye of Gruumsh) to determine Rage, other times, it modifies the Barbarian Rage(like Bear Warrior, I think), so you have to do quite a bit of reading to see whether you're getting more uses of the same thing(which won't stack), or similar things with different names(which will).
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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: It's all the Rage around here...

    Plant form USED to give you immunities, until they errated it to not change your type.

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    Default Re: It's all the Rage around here...

    Quote Originally Posted by NullAshton View Post
    Plant form USED to give you immunities, until they errated it to not change your type.
    Whoops, you're right. OK, I concede that Warshaper gives you something you can't get through Druid levels. But I maintain that Druid levels are still superior, because they grant you caster levels+increased Wildshape hit dice+better animal companion+other Druid abilities.

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    Default Re: It's all the Rage around here...

    So how many base classes and how many prestige is that?

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