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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    HalflingRangerGuy

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    Default Because Clerics are weak

    My mother says: those on fire should roll.

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    Titan in the Playground
     
    Matthew's Avatar

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    Default Re: Because Clerics are weak

    Doesn't look like much of anything. We'll have to wait and see...
    It is a joyful thing indeed to hold intimate converse with a man after one’s own heart, chatting without reserve about things of interest or the fleeting topics of the world; but such, alas, are few and far between.

    – Yoshida Kenko (1283-1350), Tsurezure-Gusa (1340)

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Because Clerics are weak

    On the bright side, paladins will (hopefully) get boosted too.
    sorry to:
    -neophyte's game
    -gladiator players
    -tlotb readers
    -irc 4e game dudes
    -tooth and claw

    apologies for flaking out of all that stuff

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Spiryt's Avatar

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    Default Re: Because Clerics are weak

    Oh Man
    I sense sarcasm

    New stuff for clerics? I am sick of it, new shiny, goddy, crappy stuff with wings and holy lights
    I understand that D&D is heroic, but

    and going on quests that mean more than simply defeating the bad guy and grabbing the treasure
    Who the hell told that you must be some crap clergy to doing that "mean more than".
    I think that it's all little " over divined"
    Last edited by Spiryt; 2007-03-02 at 09:04 AM.
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    The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing;
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  5. - Top - End - #5
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Thiel's Avatar

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    Default Re: Because Clerics are weak

    Yeah Complete Divine gave clerics more than enough cheese ammo.
    The fastest animal alive today is a small dinosaur, Falco Peregrino.
    It prays mainly on other dinosaurs, which it strikes and kills in midair with its claws.
    This is a good world


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  6. - Top - End - #6
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Nevermore's Avatar

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    Default Re: Because Clerics are weak

    Clerics? weak? I'm confused...

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    HalflingRangerGuy

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    Default Re: Because Clerics are weak

    Quote Originally Posted by Nevermore View Post
    Clerics? weak? I'm confused...
    Follow the link.
    My mother says: those on fire should roll.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Nevermore's Avatar

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    Default Re: Because Clerics are weak

    I am confused by the fact anyone thinks a Cleric is weak. Traditionally I have seen them as one of the strongest classes- Harm, all those healing spells etc

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Troll in the Playground
     
    HalflingRogueGuy

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    Default Re: Because Clerics are weak

    I'm pretty sure the OP was dripping with sarcasm.

    JaronK

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Matthew's Avatar

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    Default Re: Because Clerics are weak

    Cupkeyk doesn't think Clerics are weak, he thinks the opposite... the new Book he suspects, will power them up even more.
    It is a joyful thing indeed to hold intimate converse with a man after one’s own heart, chatting without reserve about things of interest or the fleeting topics of the world; but such, alas, are few and far between.

    – Yoshida Kenko (1283-1350), Tsurezure-Gusa (1340)

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Nevermore's Avatar

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    Default Re: Because Clerics are weak

    Fair enough... I'm currently sitting in Philosophy class, so my sarcasm senses are asleep.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Matthew's Avatar

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    Default Re: Because Clerics are weak

    Get off the internet and back to work then!
    It is a joyful thing indeed to hold intimate converse with a man after one’s own heart, chatting without reserve about things of interest or the fleeting topics of the world; but such, alas, are few and far between.

    – Yoshida Kenko (1283-1350), Tsurezure-Gusa (1340)

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Nevermore's Avatar

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    Default Re: Because Clerics are weak

    I would, if it weren't for the fact we were just going over junk I learned in another class last semester.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Because Clerics are weak

    Complete Champion? Methinks someone has been watching too many reruns of Angel
    Look at me - I'm Robespierre!

    Have you ever considered eating your own lungs? I can show you how to prepare them if you'd like.

    Safe is for NPCs. I live on the edge

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Retired Mod in the Playground Retired Moderator
     
    Zeb The Troll's Avatar

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    Default Re: Because Clerics are weak

    Quote Originally Posted by Nevermore View Post
    Fair enough... I'm currently sitting in Philosophy class, so my sarcasm senses are asleep.
    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew View Post
    Get off the internet and back to work then!
    Try this link. It may help.
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  16. - Top - End - #16
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Because Clerics are weak

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethdred View Post
    Complete Champion? Methinks someone has been watching too many reruns of Angel
    That's only possible if you're watching that stupid season about Angel's son. If you omit that season, you can watch the show in perpetuity, and the only negative side effect is that you won't be able to watch Firefly at the same time.

  17. - Top - End - #17
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    Piccamo's Avatar

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    Default Re: Because Clerics are weak

    I am hoping Complete Champion gives more for paladins and rangers than anything else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Talya View Post
    That's only possible if you're watching that stupid season about Angel's son. If you omit that season, you can watch the show in perpetuity, and the only negative side effect is that you won't be able to watch Firefly at the same time.
    On a side note, I think you may vastly overvalue Angel...or perhaps any Joss Whedon product.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Orc in the Playground
     
    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: Because Clerics are weak

    Quote Originally Posted by Nevermore View Post
    Fair enough... I'm currently sitting in Philosophy class, so my sarcasm senses are asleep.
    Heh, how far along are ya? My MA is in Philosophy.
    "What kind of men are these against whom you have brought us to fight? Men who do not compete for money, but for honor" -- Herodotus, VIII, 26

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Re: Because Clerics are weak

    I certainly hope that the main intention of this book is to focus on letting other classes get some of the things that make a cleric so powerful. A fighter with some divine blessing-style feats could get plenty of good magic abilities that still make sense fluff-wise. Imagine Righteous Might being available to all melee-based classes.

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    HalflingRangerGuy

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    Default Re: Because Clerics are weak

    And make the crusader as powerful as the swordsage and the warblade.
    My mother says: those on fire should roll.

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Orc in the Playground
     
    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: Because Clerics are weak

    Quote Originally Posted by Thiel View Post
    Yeah Complete Divine gave clerics more than enough cheese ammo.
    Actually, I don't think the Complete Divine did anything to overpower Clerics. It just reprinted it... Divine Meta-Magic came about in Defenders of the Faith, Persistant Spells were reprinted in Complete Arcane, originally in Tome and Blood if I recall. And the over-powered PrCs (Radiant Servant, Contemplative, Divine Oracle, Sacred Exorcist, Storm Lord) are all from other source books before being reprinted in Complete Divine. Even a lot of the new spells were reprints from other WotC Material.

    The amount of new and unique content in Complete Divine is abysmally limited once you get past the new base classes. Although, I do think Favored Soul might be the most powerful base class at the high end (when in the hands of an experienced player) when all is said and done.

    IMO - the two books which have significantly overpowered Clerics are Defenders of the Faith and Libris Mortis.
    "What kind of men are these against whom you have brought us to fight? Men who do not compete for money, but for honor" -- Herodotus, VIII, 26

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    HalflingRangerGuy

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    Default Re: Because Clerics are weak

    Favored Souls are MAD and get 2 skill points per level. I think they are unplayable.
    My mother says: those on fire should roll.

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    MonkGuy

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    Default Re: Because Clerics are weak

    MAD and low skills does not an unplayable character make.

  24. - Top - End - #24

    Default Re: Because Clerics are weak

    Quote Originally Posted by cupkeyk View Post
    And make the crusader as powerful as the swordsage and the warblade.
    Wait, is that sarcasm, too?

    Edit: clerics absolutely own the hell out of Favored Souls.
    Last edited by Bears With Lasers; 2007-03-02 at 12:10 PM.

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Because Clerics are weak

    Quote Originally Posted by cupkeyk View Post
    Favored Souls are MAD and get 2 skill points per level. I think they are unplayable.
    My group has a favored soul with it, and it's very useful... spontanous caster so he gets a heck of a lot of healing spells, and doing about 30 damage per hit with a bow and arrow. Healing + ranged attacking = happy melee people.

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    ken-do-nim's Avatar

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    Default Re: Because Clerics are weak

    Quote Originally Posted by cupkeyk View Post
    Favored Souls are MAD and get 2 skill points per level. I think they are unplayable.
    I'll be playing my first one for a couple of sessions so I guess I'll find out. 35 point buy for ability scores did help to alleviate the MAD, but not really since I also wanted high int. Mainly what I did was not bother with wisdom beyond the minimum I needed and didn't pick any spells that required a foe to make a dc. I just took all buff spells.

    It probably won't matter what I play since the DM just gave the party paladin a gold dragon mount.

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Orzel's Avatar

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    Default Re: Because Clerics are weak

    I can hope for some more ranger love. But the book gives my the feeling they make Remove Disease 2/week broken.

    "I use one of my RD usages to poison everything in a 60ft radius. Then I smite the monster, giving him -8 to Fort saves..."
    Last edited by Orzel; 2007-03-02 at 12:21 PM.
    Gitp's No. 1 Rarity fan and Cake hater
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  28. - Top - End - #28
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Because Clerics are weak

    I was under the impression that Complete Champion will boost Paladins/Crusaders/Favored Souls/Spirit Shamans more than it will boost Clerics.

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Imp

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    Default Re: Because Clerics are weak

    Why is it that WotC are re-releasing all the 'Complete' books? Do we really need a Complete Divine II? Or Complete Adventurer II? No. It really gets my gaff that they keep churning out this stuff...pratically every other RPG system I know of has a number of Core Rulebooks and than all the extra material they release is different settings...D&D doesn't even have the imagination to do that - they just produce more and more rules to make the next idea they have 'cool', along with more PrC's, Spells, Feats, etc. The only alternative setting they've come up with (and even touched for years) is Eberron and as far as I can tell that's not even had an awful lot of thought put into it....AAAAAARGH!!!

    Sorry, I've finished my rant now....so I'll stop and let everyne else say civilised things...
    I apologise if I come across daft. I'm a bit like that. I also like a good argument, so please don't take offence if I'm somewhat...forthright.

    Please be aware; when it comes to 5ed D&D, I own Core (1st printing) and SCAG only. All my opinions and rulings are based solely on those, unless otherwise stated. I reserve the right of ignorance of errata or any other source.

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Mike_G's Avatar

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    Default Re: Because Clerics are weak

    Quote Originally Posted by okpokalypse View Post
    Heh, how far along are ya? My MA is in Philosophy.

    I hope you can make a mean Mocha Double Skim Latte.

    And you can take that from a guy with a History degree. Who's working on a ambulance.
    Out of wine comes truth, out of truth the vision clears, and with vision soon appears a grand design. From the grand design we can understand the world. And when you understand the world, you need a lot more wine.


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