Because Clerics are weak

[cupkeyk]

and need all the help they can get.

[Matthew]

Doesn't look like much of anything. We'll have to wait and see...

[Abardam]

On the bright side, paladins will (hopefully) get boosted too.

[Spiryt]

Oh Man
I sense sarcasm

New stuff for clerics? I am sick of it, new shiny, goddy, crappy stuff with wings and holy lights
I understand that D&D is heroic, but

and going on quests that mean more than simply defeating the bad guy and grabbing the treasure

Who the hell told that you must be some crap clergy to doing that "mean more than".
I think that it's all little " over divined"

[Thiel]

Yeah Complete Divine gave clerics more than enough cheese ammo.

[Nevermore]

Clerics? weak? I'm confused...

[cupkeyk]

Clerics? weak? I'm confused...

Follow the link.

[Nevermore]

I am confused by the fact anyone thinks a Cleric is weak. Traditionally I have seen them as one of the strongest classes- Harm, all those healing spells etc

[JaronK]

I'm pretty sure the OP was dripping with sarcasm.

JaronK

[Matthew]

Cupkeyk doesn't think Clerics are weak, he thinks the opposite... the new Book he suspects, will power them up even more.

[Nevermore]

Fair enough... I'm currently sitting in Philosophy class, so my sarcasm senses are asleep.

[Matthew]

Get off the internet and back to work then!

[Nevermore]

I would, if it weren't for the fact we were just going over junk I learned in another class last semester.

[Ethdred]

Complete Champion? Methinks someone has been watching too many reruns of Angel

[Zeb The Troll]

Fair enough... I'm currently sitting in Philosophy class, so my sarcasm senses are asleep.

Get off the internet and back to work then!

Try this link. It may help.

[Talya]

Complete Champion? Methinks someone has been watching too many reruns of Angel

That's only possible if you're watching that stupid season about Angel's son. If you omit that season, you can watch the show in perpetuity, and the only negative side effect is that you won't be able to watch Firefly at the same time.

[Piccamo]

I am hoping Complete Champion gives more for paladins and rangers than anything else.

That's only possible if you're watching that stupid season about Angel's son. If you omit that season, you can watch the show in perpetuity, and the only negative side effect is that you won't be able to watch Firefly at the same time.

On a side note, I think you may vastly overvalue Angel...or perhaps any Joss Whedon product.

[okpokalypse]

Fair enough... I'm currently sitting in Philosophy class, so my sarcasm senses are asleep.

Heh, how far along are ya? My MA is in Philosophy.

[Woot Spitum]

I certainly hope that the main intention of this book is to focus on letting other classes get some of the things that make a cleric so powerful. A fighter with some divine blessing-style feats could get plenty of good magic abilities that still make sense fluff-wise. Imagine Righteous Might being available to all melee-based classes.

[cupkeyk]

And make the crusader as powerful as the swordsage and the warblade.

[okpokalypse]

Yeah Complete Divine gave clerics more than enough cheese ammo.

Actually, I don't think the Complete Divine did anything to overpower Clerics. It just reprinted it... Divine Meta-Magic came about in Defenders of the Faith, Persistant Spells were reprinted in Complete Arcane, originally in Tome and Blood if I recall. And the over-powered PrCs (Radiant Servant, Contemplative, Divine Oracle, Sacred Exorcist, Storm Lord) are all from other source books before being reprinted in Complete Divine. Even a lot of the new spells were reprints from other WotC Material.

The amount of new and unique content in Complete Divine is abysmally limited once you get past the new base classes. Although, I do think Favored Soul might be the most powerful base class at the high end (when in the hands of an experienced player) when all is said and done.

IMO - the two books which have significantly overpowered Clerics are Defenders of the Faith and Libris Mortis.

[cupkeyk]

Favored Souls are MAD and get 2 skill points per level. I think they are unplayable.

[Quietus]

MAD and low skills does not an unplayable character make.

[Bears With Lasers]

And make the crusader as powerful as the swordsage and the warblade.

Wait, is that sarcasm, too?

Edit: clerics absolutely own the hell out of Favored Souls.

[NullAshton]

Favored Souls are MAD and get 2 skill points per level. I think they are unplayable.

My group has a favored soul with it, and it's very useful... spontanous caster so he gets a heck of a lot of healing spells, and doing about 30 damage per hit with a bow and arrow. Healing + ranged attacking = happy melee people.

[ken-do-nim]

Favored Souls are MAD and get 2 skill points per level. I think they are unplayable.

I'll be playing my first one for a couple of sessions so I guess I'll find out. 35 point buy for ability scores did help to alleviate the MAD, but not really since I also wanted high int. Mainly what I did was not bother with wisdom beyond the minimum I needed and didn't pick any spells that required a foe to make a dc. I just took all buff spells.

It probably won't matter what I play since the DM just gave the party paladin a gold dragon mount.

[Orzel]

I can hope for some more ranger love. But the book gives my the feeling they make Remove Disease 2/week broken.

"I use one of my RD usages to poison everything in a 60ft radius. Then I smite the monster, giving him -8 to Fort saves..."

[Fax Celestis]

I was under the impression that Complete Champion will boost Paladins/Crusaders/Favored Souls/Spirit Shamans more than it will boost Clerics.

[JellyPooga]

Why is it that WotC are re-releasing all the 'Complete' books? Do we really need a Complete Divine II? Or Complete Adventurer II? No. It really gets my gaff that they keep churning out this stuff...pratically every other RPG system I know of has a number of Core Rulebooks and than all the extra material they release is different settings...D&D doesn't even have the imagination to do that - they just produce more and more rules to make the next idea they have 'cool', along with more PrC's, Spells, Feats, etc. The only alternative setting they've come up with (and even touched for years) is Eberron and as far as I can tell that's not even had an awful lot of thought put into it....AAAAAARGH!!!

Sorry, I've finished my rant now....so I'll stop and let everyne else say civilised things...

[Mike_G]

Heh, how far along are ya? My MA is in Philosophy.

I hope you can make a mean Mocha Double Skim Latte.

And you can take that from a guy with a History degree. Who's working on a ambulance.