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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Heartless, Nobodies, Types, Oh My!

    So after like...years of being dissatisfied with the lack of Heartless and Nobodies for the sake of emulating Kingdom Hearts storylines in D&D, a player of mine asked me to whip something up.

    The-Mage-King did a pretty good job with Nobodies, so I copied a lot of it with some fairly minor tweaking to fit with my Heartless concept. Sorry in advance, and thanks in advance for any criticisms and advice and thoughts and whatnot.

    ---

    Heartless Type
    Features
    - 8-sided Hit Dice
    - Base attack bonus equal to 3/4 Hit Dice (As Cleric)
    - Good Will saves
    - Skill points equal to (2+ Int modifier, Minimum 1) per Hit Die, with quadruple skill points for the first Hit Die, if the Heartless has an Intelligence score. However, most Heartless are mindless and gain no skill points or feats.

    Traits - Heartless possess the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature's entry)
    - Mindless: Unless otherwise specified in the monster's entry, all creatures with the Heartless type lack an intelligence score.
    - Immune to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects)
    - Darkvision out to 60 feet.
    - Proficient with their natural weapons and any weapon they are described as wielding.
    - Only proficient with armor if they are described as wearing it.
    - Heartless do not eat, breath, or sleep.

    Furthermore, treat all Heartless as if they're a product of the following template:

    Heartless Template

    CREATING A HEARTLESS CREATURE

    Heartless is an acquired Template that can be added to the following creatures: Aberrations, Animals, Dragons, Fey, Giants, Humanoids Magical Beasts, Monstrous Humanoids, Oozes, Plants and Vermin (referred to hereafter as the base creature).

    Size and Type: The creature's Type changes to Heartless. The creature's size does not change.

    Special Attacks: If not created through the Create Spawn ability, base creature keeps all special attacks, except that abilities that are good aligned, such as Smite Evil, are changed to affect good-aligned creatures instead (Exceptions exist with the very rare good Heartless). The creature also always gains the following Special Attacks.

    Consume Heart (Su): When a creature is knocked out or killed by a heartless, the heartless uses the next round to consume that creature's heart. The heart is transported to the Plane of Shadows to become a Heartless while the creature's body and soul are transported to the Astral Plane to become a Nobody.

    Special Qualities:
    If not created through the Create Spawn quality, the base creature keeps all its special qualities, except that abilities that are good aligned, such as Detect Evil, are changed to effect good-aligned creatures instead (Exceptions exist with the very rare good Heartless). The creature also gains the following Special Qualities.

    Create Spawn (Su): Any creature whose heart is consumed by a heartless automatically is revived on the Plane Of Shadows with Heartless Template as well as on the Astral Plane with the Nobody template. The resulting Heartless is usually of the same kind that consumed its heart, much like how undead spawn more of their kind. In the case of a Heartless created from Create Spawn, it does not keep any attacks or qualities from the base creature.

    Shadow Door (Ex): At will, as a full round action, a heartless can travel between shadows, just as a shadow dancer may, at a maximum range of 10 feet per Hit Die.

    Surface Shadow (Ex): Heartless creatures move at base speed as a complete shadows with their yellow eyes showing on the floor, wall, surface, etc. They are immune to physical attacks (except by Ghost Touch weapons) and can't attack while in this from. The heartless also gains a +10 bonus to Move Silently and -4 to Hide (from the glowing yellow eyes) while in this form.

    Black Infinity (Ex): Like an Outsider, a Heartless slain outside of its home plane will reform in a few days. This can only be bypassed by a keyblade, which permanently destroys them. If a Heartless and it's counterpart Nobody are both permanently destroyed, the base creature they originally were is reconstituted at the place they separated, or failing that, the closest safest space.

    Dark Allure (Su): Heartless creatures naturally flock to those of evil or chaotic alignments naturally; they will obey the intentions of higher-HD Heartless inherently, and can be Turned and Rebuked as if they were Undead. In addition to this, an evil or chaotic-aligned creature can make an opposed Charisma check in order to command a Heartless creature as if casting dominate monster on it. This can be done on as many heartless as the subject wishes, though if the subject fails to suggest an individual heartless, the heartless creature is immune to that subject's attempts for 24 hours. There is no limit to how many heartless someone can command at any one time. For each heartless successfully commanded, the subject must make a Will Save (DC 10 + ½ Heartless' HD + Heartless' Wisdom modifier). For each failure, they gain a Dark Point.

    Dark Points can only be removed by atonement, wish, miracle, or reality revision. If a subject accrues DP equal to or greater than its Wisdom score, the subject becomes a heartless creature with all that entails.

    Skills: A heartless creature gains a +10 Racial bonus to Hide checks.

    Nobody Type
    Features
    - d12-sided Hit Dice.
    - Base attack bonus equal to 3/4 total Hit Dice (as cleric).
    - Good Will saves.
    - Skill points equal to (4 + Int modifier, minimum 1) per Hit Die, with quadruple skill points for the first Hit Die.

    Traits
    A Nobody possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry).
    - No constitution score.
    - No immunity to critical hits, despite their lack of a Constitution score. This is due to them having weak points from the loss of fragments of the self to the Void.
    - Cannot heal on its own, and is only partially affected by positive energy effects. If targeted by a Conjuration (Healing) spell, a Nobody only recovers half of the Hit Points normally recovered.
    - Emotionless: A Nobody is completely unaffected by fear effects or rage effects. On the flip side, they also are unaffected by any effect that grants a morale bonus or otherwise uses emotions to empower the Nobody.
    - Since it no longer exists, a Nobody cannot be raised of resurrected. However, provided a Nobody succeeds on a Will save with a DC equal to 15 + Nobody's total hit dice at time of 'death', a Nobody may return to its quasi-existence 3d8 days after it is 'killed', losing a level in the process. The save increases in difficulty by 5 for each time the Nobody has returned in this manner.
    - A wish or miracle spell, or a reality revision power, cast or manifested while the Nobody and its Heartless are within ten feet of each other fuses the two, restoring them to their previous form and power. In the case of a Player Character, they immediately remove the template that granted them the Nobody type.
    - Proficient with natural weapons only, unless otherwise stated in description as using a non-natural weapon.
    - If both a Nobody and its Heartless are destroyed, the original creature reforms, exactly as they were at the time of their separation, at the place where they originally separated (or the nearest safe space).

    Creating a Humanoid Nobody
    Humanoid Nobody is an acquired template that can be added only to a living humanoid, monstrous humanoid, or native outsider with at least 10 hit dice, referred to hereafter as the base creature. They must also have a minimum of 10 in all of their mental ability scores. Otherwise, they would be a lesser Nobody.

    A Humanoid Nobody uses all of the base creature's stats and abilities, except as noted here.

    Size and Type
    The creature's type changes to Nobody, receiving all effects of the new type as they are. Do not recalculate base attack bonus, saves, or skill points. Size is unchanged.

    Hit Dice
    Increase all current and future Hit Dice to d12s.

    Special Attacks
    A Nobody retains all of its prior special attacks and gains the following special ability.

    Limit Break (Ex): A Humanoid Nobody may use a special attack known as a 'limit break' when its hit point total drops below 1/4th of its maximum total, rounding down. This may be used as many times per day as the hit point total drops beneath the mark, but each use of this ability per day makes the mark become 1/2 the previous mark for that day. Activation of this ability is a swift action.
    A Limit Break:
    - Lasts a number of rounds equal to the Humanoid Nobody's Charisma modifier +1, with a minimum of 1 round.
    - Grants a haste effect to the Humanoid Nobody for the duration, with a caster level of 5.
    - Grants a +5 inherent bonus to all saves, attack, and damage rolls.
    - Allows the Humanoid Nobody to use one 2nd level spell from the Conjuration or Evocation schools with an energy descriptor once. The save DC is Charisma based, with an effective caster level of the Nobody's hit dice. The spell must be selected at the time the base creature applies the template, cannot be changed, and moderate restore Nobody's Health or summoning spells are not allowed to be chosen for this.

    Example: Axel has 96 hit points. When his hit point total drops beneath 24, he may use his Limit Break. Doing so, he throws around a flaming sphere, hitting several enemies and killing them. After completing the Limit Break and the encounter ends, he gets healed. The next time Axel wishes to use his Limit Break, his total hit points must be 11 or lower, as 24/2=12. The time after that, he must have 5 or fewer hit points left, and so on. The next day, he can once again use his Limit Break when his hit point total drops beneath 24, and the cycle continues.

    Special Qualities
    A Humanoid Nobody retains all of the special qualities it had in existence, and gains the following.

    Emotionless (Ex): A Humanoid Nobody may be able to put up a front of emotion, and act through the mental steps of emotion, but they cannot actually feel anything. This means that they are completely unaffected by fear effects or rage effects. On the flip side, they also are unaffected by any effect that grants a morale bonus or otherwise uses emotions to empower the Humanoid Nobody.
    Corridor of Darkness (Sp): A Humanoid Nobody may plane shift to the Plane of Shadow and from there, 3 times per day. The visual effect is a six foot plus tall pillar of a purplish color, with waves of shadow pulsing off of it, into which the Humanoid Nobody and any people traveling with him step.
    Divine Options (Ex): If a Cleric becomes a Humanoid Nobody, he or she may choose to trade the ability to Turn or Rebuke Undead for the ability to rebuke non-humanoid Nobodies.
    Resistance (Ex): A Humanoid Nobody gains Resistance 10 to one of the following energy types: Fire, Acid, Electricity, Cold, Sonic. This choice cannot be changed.

    Abilities
    Dex +2, Cha +2. Humanoid Nobodies have no constitution score, and use their Cha modifier for any skill which would use it.

    Skills
    Humanoid Nobodies have a +6 racial bonus on Bluff and Disguise checks made to impersonate their former race.

    Challenge Rating
    +1

    Level Adjustment
    +2

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Troll in the Playground
     
    PirateGirl

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    Default Re: Heartless, Nobodies, Types, Oh My!

    Could you link to the source material by Mage Kiing or repost it. You seem to refer to it a lot in the quasi-template and it is difficult to judge without it.

    Since your Heartless have the same features as Undead why are they just not a Subtype of Undead like Dealthless? It makes sense they'd have a new Subtype since their Traits are different.

    You should use standard terminology when possible. Immunity to critical hits (not precision damage for example) and you should note the differences between standard undead traits and heartless traits a bit more clearly. See Deathless from Book of Exalted Deeds for example.

    It looks like your template and traits run together. I know it's a pain to repeat information but that's exactly what you should do. The Template needs some expansion.

    Limit break should round DOWN.

    Debby
    Last edited by Debihuman; 2014-07-31 at 07:23 PM.
    P.E.A.C.H. Please Evaluate And Critique Honestly. Being nicer and kinder doesn't hurt either. Note I generally only critique 3.5 and Pathfinder material.
    Please, please, please when using non-core material, cite to the books. There are too many books to wade through to find the one with the feat, special ability or spell you use.
    my creations in homebrew signature thread

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Heartless, Nobodies, Types, Oh My!

    Could you link to the source material by Mage Kiing or repost it. You seem to refer to it a lot in the quasi-template and it is difficult to judge without it.
    I have it saved to my hard-drive. I'll try and see if I can find a link to where he originally posted it before resorting to pasting it here.

    Since your Heartless have the same features as Undead why are they just not a Subtype of Undead like Dealthless? It makes sense they'd have a new Subtype since their Traits are different.
    I'm...pretty certain Deathless are their own Type entirely? And they don't have the same features? Different hit die, BAB advancement, they lack INT but have CON...

    You should use standard terminology when possible. Immunity to critical hits (not precision damage for example) and you should note the differences between standard undead traits and heartless traits a bit more clearly. See Deathless from Book of Exalted Deeds for example.
    Noted.

    It looks like your template and traits run together. I know it's a pain to repeat information but that's exactly what you should do. The Template needs some expansion.
    That's a bit of an issue i'm having; it's unusual for a type to give special qualities and such like I want to give them, so the Heartless bit is just laid out like a template without being one per se. I'm not sure how to write it elegantly.

    The Nobody type and the Humanoid Nobody template are distinct though.

    Limit break should round DOWN.
    Whoops, didn't even notice! I'll fix it. Thanks!

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Heartless, Nobodies, Types, Oh My!

    Changes made. Here's a link to The-Mage-King's original Nobody work. http://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Nobody_%283.5e_Template%29

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Troll in the Playground
     
    PirateGirl

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    Default Re: Heartless, Nobodies, Types, Oh My!

    Quote Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
    I have it saved to my hard-drive. I'll try and see if I can find a link to where he originally posted it before resorting to pasting it here.
    Thanks!

    I'm...pretty certain Deathless are their own Type entirely? And they don't have the same features? Different hit die, BAB advancement, they lack INT but have CON...
    Nope. Deathless are a Subtype of Undead. After double checking with the original source [Eberron Campaign Setting] I stand corrected. Deathless are a new Type.

    That's a bit of an issue i'm having; it's unusual for a type to give special qualities and such like I want to give them, so the Heartless bit is just laid out like a template without being one per se. I'm not sure how to write it elegantly.
    I can help with that. Templates are pretty easy once you decide what you want to do.

    The Nobody type and the Humanoid Nobody template are distinct though.
    Hmm. Then you need to decide how to apply the first to the second. Once I look at the original material, I might be able to sort it out better. Give me a day or so.

    Whoops, didn't even notice! I'll fix it. Thanks!
    No problem.

    Debby

    Give me a chance to look at Mage-King's work and I'll see if I can sort it out.
    Last edited by Debihuman; 2014-08-02 at 01:33 AM.
    P.E.A.C.H. Please Evaluate And Critique Honestly. Being nicer and kinder doesn't hurt either. Note I generally only critique 3.5 and Pathfinder material.
    Please, please, please when using non-core material, cite to the books. There are too many books to wade through to find the one with the feat, special ability or spell you use.
    my creations in homebrew signature thread

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Troll in the Playground
     
    PirateGirl

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    Default Re: Heartless, Nobodies, Types, Oh My!

    Okay, just so you know: the D&D wiki has some ghastly overpowered homebrews.

    As I suspected the Nobody is Subtype. The new Type is Naught (it's linked in the Humanoid Nobody Template). Let's at least go with that premise.

    Unfortunately the Naught traits are badly written.

    Debby
    Last edited by Debihuman; 2014-08-02 at 01:41 AM. Reason: In error
    P.E.A.C.H. Please Evaluate And Critique Honestly. Being nicer and kinder doesn't hurt either. Note I generally only critique 3.5 and Pathfinder material.
    Please, please, please when using non-core material, cite to the books. There are too many books to wade through to find the one with the feat, special ability or spell you use.
    my creations in homebrew signature thread

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Heartless, Nobodies, Types, Oh My!

    Nope. Deathless are a Subtype of Undead.
    Not according to Ur-priest's Monstrous Handbook.

    And here is where the trouble starts. It's uses Undead Features. Ergo, it's an Undead Type with new Traits, not a New Type.
    Er...no, it's seriously not.

    Quote Originally Posted by SRD
    Undead Type

    Undead are once-living creatures animated by spiritual or supernatural forces.
    Features

    An undead creature has the following features.

    12-sided Hit Dice.
    Base attack bonus equal to ½ total Hit Dice (as wizard).
    Good Will saves.
    Skill points equal to (4 + Int modifier, minimum 1) per Hit Die, with quadruple skill points for the first Hit Die, if the undead creature has an Intelligence score. However, many undead are mindless and gain no skill points or feats.
    Those are Naught traits and they're badly written. First, since these are undead or at least some sort of variant on that the changes from standard undead traits should be spelled out thoroughly. As you can see, they're not.

    Since Naughts, Heartless and Nobodies all use Undead Features, they should all be subtypes of undead. There's very little to distinguish between them at the moment.
    I'm sorry, but I disagree. There's differences between the features, and the traits (poorly written or not) are sufficiently different from Undead traits. Whether you think that's appropriate or not is another matter entirely.

    And, for the record, in my reposting I renamed the Naught type while retweaking it.

  8. - Top - End - #8
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    Default Re: Heartless, Nobodies, Types, Oh My!

    The problem with saying "these are a subtype of undead" is that you're only doing it because of superficial similarities. Like, golems are humanoid in shape but not [humanoid], right? Heartless are mindless and not alive but that's incidental.

    Further, making them undead means every. Single. Ability. In. The. Game. That affects undead will affect Heartless, even if it shouldn't. Chill touch will send Nobodies running in fear. Dread Necromancer's will increase the Hp of heartless. Heartless that exist for centuries gain a template based on accumulated negative energy. Heartless can be made intlfwnt wit awaken undead.

    None of these things are things we want to happen. So let's not force something into an existing type just to keep things arbitrarily 'clean'.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Heartless, Nobodies, Types, Oh My!

    SiuiS captured what I wanted to reply with before I could.

    The two types of creatures are, in both design and fluff, not meant to be Undead at all. I only have Heartless interact with Turn/Rebuke Undead because being commanded by Positive and Negative energy is just a good equivalent to Light/Darkness stuff D&D doesn't really have.

    And thanks for the template, Debi. I'll edit it in.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Troll in the Playground
     
    PirateGirl

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    Default Re: Heartless, Nobodies, Types, Oh My!

    I stand corrected Deathless is a Type not a Subtype (must learn to check primary sources before posting) sorry for that. Eberron Campaign Setting page 175.

    Here is Your Heartless Template. I tried to keep as much of your original work as possible and just did some proofreading and a couple of edits. Lemme know what you think.

    Heartless Template

    CREATING A HEARTLESS CREATURE

    Heartless is an acquired Template that can be added to the following creatures: Aberrations, Animals, Dragons, Fey, Giants, Humanoids Magical Beasts, Monstrous Humanoids, Oozes, Plants and Vermin (referred to hereafter as the base creature).

    Size and Type: The creature's Type changes to Heartless. The creature's size does not change.

    HD: Increase all current and future Hit Dice to d12s.

    Special Attacks Base creature keeps all special attacks, except that abilities that are good aligned, such as Smite Evil, are changed to affect good-aligned creatures instead. The creature also gains the following Special Attacks.

    Consume Heart (Su): When a creature is knocked out or killed by a heartless, the heartless uses the next round to consume that creature's heart. The heart is transported to the Plane of Shadows to become a Heartless while the creature's body and soul are transported to the Astral Plane to become a Nobody.

    Special Qualities: The base creature keeps all its special qualities, except that abilities that are good aligned, such as Detect Evil, are changed to effect good-aligned creatures instead. The creature also gains the following Special Qualities.

    Create Spawn (Su): Any creature whose heart is consumed by a heartless automatically is revived on the Plane Of Shadows with Heartless Template as well as on the Astral Plane with the Nobody template. The resulting Heartless is usually of the same kind that consumed its heart, much like how undead spawn more of their kind. In the case of a Heartless created from Create Spawn, it does not keep any attacks or qualities from the base creature.

    Shadow Door (Ex): At will, as a full round action, a heartless can travel between shadows, just as a shadow dancer may, at a maximum range of 10 feet per Hit Die.

    Surface Shadow (Ex): Heartless creatures move at base speed as a complete shadows with their yellow eyes showing on the floor, wall, surface, etc. They are immune to physical attacks (except by Ghost Touch weapons) and can't attack while in this from. The heartless also gains a +10 bonus to Move Silently and -4 to Hide (from the glowing yellow eyes) while in this form.

    Black Infinity (Ex): Like an Outsider, a Heartless slain outside of its home plane will reform in a few days. This can only be bypassed by a keyblade, which permanently destroys them. If a Heartless and it's counterpart Nobody are both permanently destroyed, the base creature they originally were is reconstituted at the place they separated, or failing that, the closest safest space.

    Dark Allure (Su): Heartless creatures naturally flock to those of evil or chaotic alignments naturally; they will obey the intentions of higher-HD Heartless inherently, and can be Turned and Rebuked as if they were Undead. In addition to this, an evil or chaotic-aligned creature can make an opposed Charisma check in order to command a Heartless creature as if casting dominate monster on it. This can be done on as many heartless as the subject wishes, though if the subject fails to suggest an individual heartless, the heartless creature is immune to that subject's attempts for 24 hours. There is no limit to how many heartless someone can command at any one time. For each heartless successfully commanded, the subject must make a Will Save (DC 10 + ½ Heartless' HD + Heartless' Wisdom modifier). For each failure, they gain a Dark Point.

    Dark Points can only be removed by atonement, wish, miracle, or reality revision. If a subject accrues DP equal to or greater than its Wisdom score, the subject becomes a heartless creature with all that entails.

    Skills: A heartless creature gains a +10 Racial bonus to Hide checks.

    Debby

    P.S. sorry I deleted it and moved it down but I was editing while you were posting and I didn't want to step on any more toes.
    Last edited by Debihuman; 2014-08-02 at 02:44 AM.
    P.E.A.C.H. Please Evaluate And Critique Honestly. Being nicer and kinder doesn't hurt either. Note I generally only critique 3.5 and Pathfinder material.
    Please, please, please when using non-core material, cite to the books. There are too many books to wade through to find the one with the feat, special ability or spell you use.
    my creations in homebrew signature thread

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