Support the GITP forums on Patreon
Help support GITP's forums (and ongoing server maintenance) via Patreon
Results 1 to 13 of 13
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Griffon

    Join Date
    Aug 2014

    Default Wraithwood Refugee

    Good Afternoon/Evening/Night to everyone. Mornings are never good.
    First Post/Homebrew Class, so here goes nothing'!

    The Wraithwood Refugee functions as a combined Druid-Rogue character. He has rather steep entrance requirements (including what is basically is a required multiclass, as far as I can tell) and a pair of entrance penalties, but makes up for it with a plethora of EX abilities.
    His saves are rather abnormally high, his Reflex save being absolutely insane, but his required multiclassing and logistical inability to multiclass for at least a few levels (due to entrance requirements/penalties) until he starts gaining features should keep his BAB down low enough that it is justified, at least somewhat.
    He is focused around Hiding, Moving Silently, and using his Animal Companion to flank, possibly taking a Swordsage Dip (lvl 5 or 9) to take Island of Blades.

    WRAITHWOOD REFUGEE

    Class Flavor:
    A rogue who fled his life into the depths of the Wraithwood after evading capture became too much work. Through surviving so long in the haunted glade, the Rogue has picked up a variety of skills and new abilities- but his fearful ways and lack of civilized contact have weakened the spark of civilization that once resided with him.

    SP: 8+Int B, HD: d6
    Lvl BAB Fort Reflex Will Specials
    1 1 0 1 0 Camoflage, Nature's Reform, Wraithwalk; -2 Int, Coward +1d6 SA
    2 2 1 2 1 Evasion, Tremorsense 30'
    3 2 1 2 1 Nature's Armaments, Darkstalker +1d6 SA
    4 3 2 3 2 Animalistic Casting
    5 4 2 4 2 Improved Camoflage, Ambush Predator +1d6 SA
    6 5 3 5 3 Slippery Bastard
    7 5 3 5 3 Perceptive +1d6 SA
    8 6 4 6 4 Reflexive Awareness
    9 7 4 7 4 Hidden Stride +1d6 SA
    10 8 5 8 5 Blindsight 30'

    Proficiencies: The Wraithwood Refugee gains proficiency in weapons that can be made from natural materials: Melee Simple Weapons, Slings, Darts, and Whips. He gains no armor proficiencies.

    Class Skills: Undecided. I'm sure Tumble, Escape Artist, Hide, Move Silently, Use Rope and probably Climb and Knowledge(nature) will be on there. I'd appreciate suggestions as I don't know the Skill List particularly well.

    Nature's Reform: All previous Rogue levels now count as Druid Levels for the purposes of Spellcasting. All levels of the Wraithwood Refugee count as Druid Levels for the purposes of Spellcasting and Animal Companion (but NOT Wild Shape.)


    Class Features:

    Camoflage (Ex)- In natural terrain, the Wraithwood Refugee does not require concealment to Hide.

    Wraithwalk (Ex)- The Wraithwood Refugee can move at full speed while Hiding or Moving Silently without incurring penalties. The Wraithwood Refugee does not incur environmental penalties to his Hide or Move Silently skills by moving through noisy environments.

    -2 Int, (-2 Cha?)- After spending so long in the company of only himself and animals, the Wraithwood Refugee has lost part of the spark of civilization in his mind. This applies directly to the stats- this is not an inherent debuff or untyped bonus. Upon taking this Prestige Class, a character has two subtracted from his Intelligence Ability Score.

    Coward (Ex)- the Refugee is, at heart, a coward. He can be affected by fear no matter what (including past an immunity to mind-altering effects), and takes a -1 untyped penalty to his saving rolls- however, an immunity to fear or mind-altering effects will prevent the Refugee from getting any worse than frightened (shaken?). The Refugee still makes a saving roll and any penalties or bonuses apply to the roll.

    Tremorsense 30' (Su)- A blessing of his newfound connection to nature. He is denied this in an AMF as per normal.

    Evasion (Ex)- The Wraithwood Refugee gains Evasion/Improved Evasion/Uncanny Dodge/Improved Uncanny Dodge/+2 Dex (as per Rogue), whichever he first does not have.

    Nature's Armaments (Ex)- While using any type of Wooden weapons, when a foe takes damage from the Refugee's Sneak Attack, he is sickened for one round. This stacks with the Sickening Strike feat, should the Wraithwood Refugee have it.

    Darkstalker (Ex)- The Wraithwood Refugee is granted the benefits of the Darkstalker feat.

    Animalistic Casting (Ex)- Learning from the original source of Druidic magic has endowed the Refugee with one extra spell slot and one extra spell/day of every level available to him. These slots can only be used for Druid spells. These spell slots cannot be used to fuel Metamagic feats. As nature has no language, the Refugee has learned to cast without Verbal Components. All Druid spells cast by the Refugee are cast as if Silenced (do not apply a spell level increase). All spells cast by the Refugee have a Somatic Component- if they do not, the Refugee must substitute a suitable Somatic component. The Wraithwood Refugee cannot cast if he is pinned or immobilized, and casts with a penalty -1 CL if his movement is impeded by a partial grab, grapple, or other movement-restricting effect, magical or otherwise, in addition to other penalties. Anytime a spell you cast requires a Dex or Wis modifier inside the check, you use the higher of those two modifiers.

    Improved Camouflage (Ex)- The Wraithwood Refugee can hide without concealment in any environment. Disguise and Hide now have Synergy.

    Ambush Predator (Ex)- By studying the large predatorial cats of the Wraithwood, the Refugee has learned how to start and end fights with one attack- but only while striking from a Hidden position. The Refugee may Pounce without breaking concealment until he has attacked. However, the Refugee must be Hidden to initiate this action, and can only move his movement speed. All other rules of charging apply.

    Perceptive (Ex)- The Wraithwood Refugee has spent many years refining the art of hiding. Nothing can hide from him. Any form of magical concealment or natural ability granting concealment does not conceal the user from the Wraithwood Refugee. Those out of line-of-sight (i.e. granted concealment by obstruction) are still concealed as normal. The Refugee gains a +10 untyped bonus to his Spot and Listen Skill Checks when making a check against those Hiding or Moving Silently.

    Slippery Bastard (Ex)- The Wraithwood Refugee can Hide while being observed if he is in natural or urban terrain, OR is in any light less than direct daylight, including shadows of any form. He must be 5' from a shadow large enough to cover his whole form to consider it usable in this manner(i.e. the shadow of any Medium character if he is Medium). He still takes normal penalties for running, charging, or being in combat.

    Reflexive Awareness (Ex)- A mortal can never afford to lower his guard while in the Wraithwood. Any attacks of opportunity the Wraithwood Refugee would provoke allow him to make a Reflex saving throw and use the result as his AC rather than his actual AC. However, he must declare this usage prior to making the roll.

    Hidden Stride (Sp)- As an immediate action, every 1d4+1 rounds the Wraithwood Refugee can move half his movement speed or less. This movement provokes an attack of opportunity. The Refugee can make a Sleight of Hand check (DC 20) instead of rolling 1d4+1- if it succeeds, Hidden Stride becomes usable in two rounds. If it fails, Hidden Stride is not usable for 6 rounds.

    Blindsight 30'- After so many years in the Wraithwood, the Refugee's senses have become so finely tuned that he is aware of the environment around him at all times and under any conditions, unless both blinded and deafened. This does not replace his tremorsense.


    New Feat: Pack of Thieves.
    Prerequsites: Druid Lvl 1, Rogue Lvl 1 (Sneak Attack Class instead?)
    All Druid levels count for determining total Sneak Attack level (Druid Class Lvl/2, rounded up = extra Sneak Attack Dice). All Rogue Levels count for the purposes of determining Effective Druid Level for Animal Companions and Wild Shape.

    Prequisites for taking the Wraithwood Refugee PrC:
    Craven Feat
    Pack of Thieves Feat
    Hide, lvl 13
    Move Silently, lvl 13
    Survival, lvl 5

    Special:
    Woodland Stride OR Trackless Step OR an appropriate similar ability. Ask your DM.
    Must have committed crimes (preferably of a Thieves' Guild nature, i.e. larceny, blackmail, etc.) totaling a value of 1000gp.


    Thus ends the Wraithwood Refugee. I have emboldened things I may change, esp. with recommendations.
    My questions are:

    1) Is the amount of abilities and their power alright considering the steep entrance requirements, entrance penalties, eternal vulnerability to Fear and lack of wild-shape levelling? Or wood the Refugee be OP?

    2) Are there any Druid spells that function as 'Weapon-Like', i.e. can gain sneak attack damage? If there more than a few, is there enough to merit making a rule that the Refugee can only carry out physical attack Sneak Attacks? If so, would this nerf be necessary?

    3) Any recommendations to modify the class abilities/BAB/Saves? Opinion on the usefulness of the class?

    Thanks in advance! :)
    Last edited by SosadhScath; 2014-08-10 at 01:54 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    PairO'Dice Lost's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Malsheem, Nessus
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Wraithwood Refugee

    First off, welcome to homebrewing. You've picked a strong, cohesive concept for your first attempt and one that's not really covered anywhere already, so kudos for that. However, I see a bunch of issues here, some of unnecessary complexity, some of power, and some of "prestige classes just don't do that."

    Going point by point, let's start with the prerequisites:

    Quote Originally Posted by SosadhScath View Post
    Prequisites for taking the Wraithwood Refugee PrC:
    Craven Feat
    Pack of Thieves Feat
    Hide, lvl 13
    Move Silently, lvl 13
    Survival, lvl 5
    I assume that the "levels" for skills mean you intend for it to be taken by that level, so Hide and Move Silently 16 ranks and Survival 8 ranks. That's problematic for a few reasons:
    1. Generally, you want PrCs to be accessible between 5th and 10th level, because they tend to give character-defining flavor and mechanics and thus you want to get into them fairly quickly--not to mention that high-level play is rarer than low-level play, so waiting until level 13 means few characters can make use of the class.
    2. Getting in at level 14 means you can't complete this class before level 20, which is a problem since not all groups use epic rules and those who do might find this class weaker than actual epic classes. That weakness isn't necessarily specific to this class, that's a general problem with extending non-epic PrCs into epic.

    If by level you instead mean "ranks," so 13 ranks of Hide and Move Silently let someone enter at level 10, that's still a bit late; PrCs that combine two classes like this one does should generally be able to be entered as early as possible, because multiclassing leaves you a few levels behind and you need to catch up quickly.

    From this point on, I'm going to critique the class as if the skill requirements were lowered enough for the class to be able to be entered around 6th level; the same critiques would apply, but more so, if you choose to keep entry around 10th level.

    Special:
    Woodland Stride OR Trackless Step OR an appropriate similar ability. Ask your DM.
    Not only does Trackless Step come a level after Woodland Stride for the druid and thus is a redundant prerequisite, but the Scout from Complete Adventurer also gets it and would be able to qualify without being druid-y at all. I suggest requiring just Woodland Stride. And there's no need to mention "Ask your DM if you can qualify with something similar," since you can always ask a DM to houserule for you.

    New Feat: Pack of Thieves.
    Prerequsites: Druid Lvl 1, Rogue Lvl 1 (Sneak Attack Class instead?)
    All Druid levels count for determining total Sneak Attack level (Druid Class Lvl/2, rounded up = extra Sneak Attack Dice). All Rogue Levels count for the purposes of determining Effective Druid Level for Animal Companions and Wild Shape.
    While you intend for this to be a rogue/druid class, you should still leave it open to others. Replace "druid level 1" with "Animal Companion class feature" and "rogue level 1" with "sneak attack +1d6."

    SP: 8+Int B, HD: d6
    Lvl BAB Fort Reflex Will Specials
    1 1 0 1 0 Camoflage, Nature's Reform, Wraithwalk; -2 Int, Coward +1d6 SA
    2 2 1 2 1 Evasion, Tremorsense 30'
    3 2 1 2 1 Nature's Armaments, Darkstalker +1d6 SA
    4 3 2 3 2 Animalistic Casting
    5 4 2 4 2 Improved Camoflage, Ambush Predator +1d6 SA
    6 5 3 5 3 Slippery Bastard
    7 5 3 5 3 Perceptive +1d6 SA
    8 6 4 6 4 Reflexive Awareness
    9 7 4 7 4 Hidden Stride +1d6 SA
    10 8 5 8 5 Blindsight 30'
    Giving a PrC that doesn't solely focus on roguish things 8+Int skill points per level is not recommended; that's supposed to be a "thing" for rogue classes, and spellcasting allows you to make up for the lack of skill points somewhat, so I'd recommend dropping that to 6+Int.

    Sneak Attack is generally listed cumulatively rather than +1d6 each time, but that's a stylistic thing.

    Looking at the BAB and save progressions, I see one big red flag: non-standard progressions. There is very rarely a good reason to use a non-standard progression; I can think of only two published examples (the War Hulk and Survivor get +0 BAB the entire class, the former because it gets +2 Str every level and the latter because it's basically for NPCs). Whatever reason you might have for doing this, it's outweighed by the benefits of standardization and ease of use. If you must use a nonstandard progression (and I don't recommend it), fold it into the class features and leave the base progressions alone.

    With those changes, that would make the table look like this:

    Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special
    1 +0 +0 +2 +0 Camoflage, Nature's Reform, Wraithwalk; -2 Int, Coward, Sneak Attack +1d6
    2 +1 +0 +3 +0 Evasion, Tremorsense 30'
    3 +2 +1 +3 +1 Nature's Armaments, Darkstalker, Sneak Attack +2d6
    4 +3 +1 +4 +1 Animalistic Casting
    5 +3 +1 +4 +1 Improved Camoflage, Ambush Predator, Sneak Attack +3d6
    6 +4 +2 +5 +2 Slippery Bastard
    7 +5 +2 +5 +2 Perceptive, Sneak Attack +4d6
    8 +6 +2 +6 +2 Reflexive Awareness
    9 +6 +3 +6 +3 Hidden Stride, Sneak Attack +5d6
    10 +7 +3 +7 +3 Blindsight 30'

    Proficiencies: The Wraithwood Refugee gains proficiency in weapons that can be made from natural materials: Melee Simple Weapons, Slings, Darts, and Whips. He gains no armor proficiencies.
    The intended entry includes druid, which already has a list of nature-y weapon and armor proficiencies, and PrCs don't generally grant new proficiencies anyway, so I'd drop this line.

    Class Skills: Undecided. I'm sure Tumble, Escape Artist, Hide, Move Silently, Use Rope and probably Climb and Knowledge(nature) will be on there. I'd appreciate suggestions as I don't know the Skill List particularly well.
    I suggest a combination of the druid and rogue lists: Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (nature) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Spot (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), and Use Rope (Dex).

    Nature's Reform: All previous Rogue levels now count as Druid Levels for the purposes of Spellcasting. All levels of the Wraithwood Refugee count as Druid Levels for the purposes of Spellcasting and Animal Companion (but NOT Wild Shape.)
    NO.

    Sorry to be blunt, but this is a terrible idea. Flavor-wise, it doesn't make much sense for a, say, rogue 3/druid 2/wraithwood refugee 1 to go from casting as a druid 2 to casting as a druid 6 all in one shot. Mechanically, this makes a wraithwood refugee basically strictly better than a druid; a druid willing to take 1 level of rogue and sink all his skill points into Hide and Move Silently for a level or two is now essentially a full druid plus 10 levels of even more class features at the cost of being behind in Wild Shape, which makes it a complete no-brainer for casting-focused druids.

    Drop the part about rogue counting as druid levels, and then either give this class a spellcasting progression as normal (I suggest 5/10 or 7/10) or say that it increases caster level and effective druid level to give it a sort of druid-lite progression. The actual spellcasting would probably be best, as even though this is supposed to focus on more rogueish stuff, giving up 10 levels of spellcasting is nowhere near worth it for a mid-level caster.

    -2 Int, (-2 Cha?)- After spending so long in the company of only himself and animals, the Wraithwood Refugee has lost part of the spark of civilization in his mind. This applies directly to the stats- this is not an inherent debuff or untyped bonus. Upon taking this Prestige Class, a character has two subtracted from his Intelligence Ability Score.

    Coward (Ex)- the Refugee is, at heart, a coward. He can be affected by fear no matter what (including past an immunity to mind-altering effects), and takes a -1 untyped penalty to his saving rolls- however, an immunity to fear or mind-altering effects will prevent the Refugee from getting any worse than frightened (shaken?). The Refugee still makes a saving roll and any penalties or bonuses apply to the roll.
    Again, NO. PrCs should never hand out ability penalties--they shouldn't even interact with ability scores as a prerequisite or consequence of entering them, there's a reason you never see a class with "Prerequisite: 13 Int" or whatever. If you want to represent being out of touch with civilization, a much better approach is penalizing social skills with civilized creatures or in urban surroundings. For example:

    Natural Living: After spending so long in the company of only himself and animals, the Wraithwood Refugee has lost touch with civilization. The Wraithwood Refugee takes a -2 penalty on all Intelligence- and Charisma-based skill checks to interact with or know about civilization and all such checks made in civilized environments or in groups of 10 or more civilized creatures.

    Regarding the Coward ability, not only is the ability overly-complex (granting a minor penalty and overriding some but not all immunities), but it isn't necessary because Craven already requires one to not be immune to fear and you lose the feat (and thus the PrC) if you gain that immunity.

    Tremorsense 30' (Su)- A blessing of his newfound connection to nature. He is denied this in an AMF as per normal.
    The note about AMFs is unnecessary, the (Su) tag takes care of that.

    Nature's Armaments (Ex)- While using any type of Wooden weapons, when a foe takes damage from the Refugee's Sneak Attack, he is sickened for one round. This stacks with the Sickening Strike feat, should the Wraithwood Refugee have it.
    Sickening doesn't have an automatic stacking progression like fear does, so you should detail exactly what the interaction here is. Something like "If the Wraithwood Refugee uses this ability in conjunction with the Sickening Strike feat, the target [is nauseated instead/is sickened for two rounds instead/etc.]"

    Animalistic Casting (Ex)- Learning from the original source of Druidic magic has endowed the Refugee with one extra spell slot and one extra spell/day of every level available to him. These slots can only be used for Druid spells. These spell slots cannot be used to fuel Metamagic feats. As nature has no language, the Refugee has learned to cast without Verbal Components. All Druid spells cast by the Refugee are cast as if Silenced (do not apply a spell level increase). All spells cast by the Refugee have a Somatic Component- if they do not, the Refugee must substitute a suitable Somatic component. The Wraithwood Refugee cannot cast if he is pinned or immobilized, and casts with a penalty -1 CL if his movement is impeded by a partial grab, grapple, or other movement-restricting effect, magical or otherwise, in addition to other penalties. Anytime a spell you cast requires a Dex or Wis modifier inside the check, you use the higher of those two modifiers.
    The part of this ability that grants more spellcasting is both unclear (spells per day and spell slots are the same thing, did you mean something else?), restricted for no good reason (why no metamagic with those slots?) and overpowered (no caster needs up to 9 free bonus spells). The rest of it is overly complicated (Somatic components have those sorts of restrictions built in) and unclear (what do you mean by "requires a Dex or Wis modifier inside the check"?).

    I would rewrite it thus:

    Animalistic Casting (Ex): Learning from the original source of Druidic magic has endowed the Refugee with one extra druid spell slot per day of the highest spell level he can cast. As nature has no language, the Refugee has learned to cast without verbal components: all druid spells cast by the Refugee are cast as if Silenced without taking up a higher-level spell slot, but any spells cast in this way gain a somatic component if they do not already possess one.

    Additionally, if a druid spell the Refugee casts requires a Dexterity- or Wisdom-based ability check or skill check, or enhances such a check, the Refugee may use the higher of his Dexterity or Wisdom modifier for that check.


    Improved Camouflage (Ex)- The Wraithwood Refugee can hide without concealment in any environment. Disguise and Hide now have Synergy.
    You don't really "add synergy" to existing skills, you'd just just grant a +2 bonus to Hide and Disguise, but I don't think the class needs that extra bonus on top of the existing (quite strong) ability to hide in any environment.

    Ambush Predator (Ex)- By studying the large predatorial cats of the Wraithwood, the Refugee has learned how to start and end fights with one attack- but only while striking from a Hidden position. The Refugee may Pounce without breaking concealment until he has attacked. However, the Refugee must be Hidden to initiate this action, and can only move his movement speed. All other rules of charging apply.
    I don't see a good reason to restrict the charge movement; just say that if the Refugee charges out of hiding he gains Pounce and remains hidden for the duration of the charge.

    Perceptive (Ex)- The Wraithwood Refugee has spent many years refining the art of hiding. Nothing can hide from him. Any form of magical concealment or natural ability granting concealment does not conceal the user from the Wraithwood Refugee. Those out of line-of-sight (i.e. granted concealment by obstruction) are still concealed as normal. The Refugee gains a +10 untyped bonus to his Spot and Listen Skill Checks when making a check against those Hiding or Moving Silently.
    Again, both overcomplicated and somewhat overpowered. I'd just grant him the ability to ignore concealment and a +5 bonus to Spot and Listen, nice and easy.

    Slippery Bastard (Ex)- The Wraithwood Refugee can Hide while being observed if he is in natural or urban terrain, OR is in any light less than direct daylight, including shadows of any form. He must be 5' from a shadow large enough to cover his whole form to consider it usable in this manner(i.e. the shadow of any Medium character if he is Medium). He still takes normal penalties for running, charging, or being in combat.
    Being able to use this in urban terrain clashes with the class flavor, so I'd remove that, and the five-feet-from-shadow part both doesn't make much sense for this class and should be magical as it is for the shadowdancer. You should just drop those two parts; being able to hide while observed in natural environments is plenty good enough.

    Hidden Stride (Sp)- As an immediate action, every 1d4+1 rounds the Wraithwood Refugee can move half his movement speed or less. This movement provokes an attack of opportunity. The Refugee can make a Sleight of Hand check (DC 20) instead of rolling 1d4+1- if it succeeds, Hidden Stride becomes usable in two rounds. If it fails, Hidden Stride is not usable for 6 rounds.
    By this level, if the Refugee really wants to he can make it so he succeeds on the Sleight of Hand check automatically (18 ranks from being at least 15th level, Dex of at least +1). Cut down the complexity and just make it usable every other round.

    Immediate action movement is very powerful, as it basically makes you immune to melee attacks and very resistant to ranged attacks if you can get into cover. Change that to swift action movement so it only happens on his turn, limit it to 5 feet, or have moving away from an attack only grant a 50% miss chance on that attack rather than negating it entirely.

    1) Is the amount of abilities and their power alright considering the steep entrance requirements, entrance penalties, eternal vulnerability to Fear and lack of wild-shape levelling? Or wood the Refugee be OP?
    With the above changes, the Refugee is a stealth-and-avoidance expert with other druidic and roguish abilities to support it; strong, but not overpowered.

    2) Are there any Druid spells that function as 'Weapon-Like', i.e. can gain sneak attack damage? If there more than a few, is there enough to merit making a rule that the Refugee can only carry out physical attack Sneak Attacks? If so, would this nerf be necessary?
    There are, but the nerf would not be necessary at all. Sneak attack is unrestricted already to allow more conceptual breadth (snipers who sneak attack with bows and crossbows, executioners who "sneak attack" with large weapons, etc.), and everyone else can already SA with spells so there's no reason to prevent the Refugee from doing so given that being a roguish druid is its whole schtick.


    I hope I haven't sounded too harsh with the above critiques. I want to reiterate that the concept is a good one and it was an excellent first effort, you were just a bit heavy-handed with the nerfing and complexity while under-valuing the benefits of progression druid abilities.
    Better to DM in Baator than play in Celestia
    You can just call me Dice; that's how I roll.


    Spoiler: Sig of Holding
    Show

    Quote Originally Posted by abadguy View Post
    Darn you PoDL for making me care about a bunch of NPC Commoners!
    Quote Originally Posted by Chambers View Post
    I'm pretty sure turning Waterdeep into a sheet of glass wasn't the best win condition for that fight. We lived though!
    Quote Originally Posted by MaxiDuRaritry View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by PairO'DiceLost View Post
    <Snip>
    Where are my Like, Love, and Want to Have Your Manchildren (Totally Homo) buttons for this post?
    Won a cookie for this, won everything for this

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Griffon

    Join Date
    Aug 2014

    Default Re: Wraithwood Refugee

    Dice:
    First off, thank you for being both thorough and blunt. Especially that note on the Druid-with-a-level-of-Rogue abuse was exactly what I was looking for.
    I'll be responding to your responses piecemeal, as I'm away from a real computer at the moment and can't do formatting particularly well.
    *********************************************
    Prerequisites:
    My original Prerequisites were Sneak Attack and Animal Companion, but I didn't know how narrow the focus was going to be.
    Thank you for confirming my original suspicions, and I will change that back soon.

    As for skills in the Prerequisites, I was aware of the rank of skills being lvl+3- the class was meant to be entered at lvl 10, as I wasn't entirely clear on when PrC's were to be entered.
    If entrance at 5 is fine I'll change it to
    Survival Rank 4
    Hide Rank 8
    Move Silently Rank 8
    Woodland Stride
    Craven Feat
    *********************************************
    Pack Of Thieves:

    "While you intend for this to be a rogue/druid class, you should still leave it open to others. Replace "druid level 1" with "Animal Companion class feature" and "rogue level 1" with "sneak attack +1d6.""

    What you referenced are the requirements for the Pack of Thieves Feat, a new feat I created so that a multiclasser wouldn't be completely useless while trying to get up to taking Wraithwood.
    I wanted to make sure a Rogue didn't randomly take this feat to get the ability to cast Druid spells or vice versa. That's why it has Druid/Rogue requirements- because it can be used outside of qualifying for the Refugee PrC.
    Given the lowered level requirements for entry, I think I'll keep Craven as a requirement and punt this one to the side, but keep the feat around to supplement a multiclassing Rogue/Druid. I'll put Sneak Attack as a prequisite to entering the Class.

    However, I'm frankly not sure what to do about the requirements for Pack of Thieves. I don't want a Ranger multiclassing in Rogue to be able to Wild Shape by taking a feat, but I'd like a Rogue-Druid to Wild Shape at least somewhat better than his straight Druid levels would allow- the same way Ascetic Priest allows Monks and Clerics to level both of their core class features at the same time, at the price of a feat. Any suggestions that might work?
    *********************************************
    Progressions:
    BAB: That was my mistake. I meant that to be a standard progression. Whoops.

    Saves: My main problem with combining the Rogue and Druid classes is they are, in effect, antithetical classes progression wise. Druid has two good saves (Fort/Will), and one poor one (Refl). The Rogue has exact opposite saves. Is there a middleground save progression- perhaps one that gets to 5- that I can make all three of the saves go to? For example, instead of 1/2 HD+2, the save could simply be 1/2 HD. Sure, at 20 it's a 10 as opposed to a 9, but otherwise makes something I'm looking to find, when the Refugee has Reflexive Awareness, -2 to Reflex justifies a +2 to both of the others (I think).
    *********************************************
    Proficiencies: Sounds good. I'll cull the lot of them.
    *********************************************
    Class Skills: Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (nature) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Spot (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), and Use Rope (Dex).
    Sounds good. Only two more that I've thought I would like your opinion on:
    Knowledge (Dungeoneering): the Refugee is just as likely to hide in a cave as up a tree,
    Disable Device: The Refugee must build snares and other small traps with moving parts to feed himself and make his shelter. It therefore follows he understands how to take them apart, right?
    *********************************************
    Nature's Reform:
    Yes, this was the one I was worried about, and why I thought entrance penalties might be an idea to nerf it.
    Sorry to be blunt, but this is a terrible idea. That's fair. Spellcasting progression instead, I think.
    +1 divine caster level.
    *********************************************
    Natural Living:
    Natural Living: After spending so long in the company of only himself and animals, the Wraithwood Refugee has lost touch with civilization. The Wraithwood Refugee takes a -2 penalty on all Charisma-based skill checks to interact with or know about civilization and all such checks made in civilized environments or in groups of 10 or more civilized creatures.
    Would it be unwise/OP to supplement this with "However, each level of Wraithwood Refugee counts as an effective Druid level when determining bonuses for an animal companion."? Would it be better to put that under a separate 'Animal Companion' ability instead?
    Emboldened change, as it seems to fit more- it's less that he doesn't KNOW about civilization, but more that he has lost an awareness of social graces. I definitely think affecting things like Diplomacy, etc. would be reasonable.

    Coward:
    Again, was an entrance penalty in case of OP class, and I wasn't sure how Craven functioned. To the curb it goes.
    *********************************************
    Tremorsense: Just me being anal, then. Cool. Wanted to make sure.
    *********************************************
    Nature's Armaments:
    Hmmm... I've given this subject a bit more thought. I initially intended it to stack straight to nauseating- but as it does not allow for a Fort save, that means pretty much everything the Refugee Sneak Attacks would be unable to return fire, period, for the price of 1d6. The initial purpose of Nature's Armaments was to make it so a Sneak Attacked Enemy was less able to react to the Refugee during their own turn- not make it a curb-stomp battle if it's flanked- which nearly everything the Refugee attacks should be, given the animal companion. Instead of stacking, I'll break this in to two levels- an unstacking sickening at level 3, and a staggering effect later, probably at lvl 7. Neither of these will stack with the Sickening Strike/Staggering Strike Feats.
    *********************************************
    Animalistic Casting:
    Learning from the original source of Druidic magic has endowed the Refugee with one extra druid spell slot per day of the highest spell level he can cast. As nature has no language, the Refugee has learned to cast without verbal components: all druid spells cast by the Refugee are cast as if Silenced without taking up a higher-level spell slot, but any spells cast in this way gain a somatic component if they do not already possess one.
    Additionally, if a druid spell the Refugee casts requires a Dexterity- or Wisdom-based ability check or skill check, or enhances such a check, the Refugee may use the higher of his Dexterity or Wisdom modifier for that check.

    Upon further reflection, I was going for 'flexibility of preparation'. I think making a Rogue need only his primary attribute- Dexterity- rather than that AND Wisdom to be effective is plenty powerful enough. This rewrite should fit perfectly fine, thank you.
    *********************************************
    Improved Camoflage:
    The original idea was Camoflage = Disguises. Therefore, Disguises = Hiding. But I think you're right, the boost is unnecessary.
    *********************************************
    Ambush Predator:
    Less complex = good. Thank you. I'll change it.
    *********************************************
    Perceptive:
    Same as Ambush Predator. It shall be changed.
    *********************************************
    Slippery Bastard:
    Ahh, but I did so like the name this way. Again, I see your point. I'll change it to the Ranger version of HiPS.
    *********************************************
    Hidden Stride:
    Ahh. Wasn't thinking about that. Yes, that would be bad. The purpose was a Sleight-of-Hand fueled way if GTFOing from attacks. half movement speed would make that insane, though. Every other round, 5 feet, immediate action, I think. So like a really good dodge of a melee maneuver, ray, or non-splash ranged weapon.
    Last edited by SosadhScath; 2014-08-11 at 12:07 AM.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    PairO'Dice Lost's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Malsheem, Nessus
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Wraithwood Refugee

    Quote Originally Posted by SosadhScath View Post
    What you referenced are the requirements for the Pack of Thieves Feat, a new feat I created so that a multiclasser wouldn't be completely useless while trying to get up to taking Wraithwood.
    I realize, I was just pointing out that while it was intended to enable a druid/rogue on its way into Wraithwood Refugee, it shouldn't be limited just to them.

    I wanted to make sure a Rogue didn't randomly take this feat to get the ability to cast Druid spells or vice versa. That's why it has Druid/Rogue requirements- because it can be used outside of qualifying for the Refugee PrC.

    However, I'm frankly not sure what to do about the requirements for Pack of Thieves. I don't want a Ranger multiclassing in Rogue to be able to Wild Shape by taking a feat, but I'd like a Rogue-Druid to Wild Shape at least somewhat better than his straight Druid levels would allow- the same way Ascetic Priest allows Monks and Clerics to level both of their core class features at the same time, at the price of a feat. Any suggestions that might work?
    That's not actually a problem, since it would be like like giving an item of +10 caster level to a fighter: it does nothing unless they already have the Wild Shape feature.

    Saves: My main problem with combining the Rogue and Druid classes is they are, in effect, antithetical classes progression wise. Druid has two good saves (Fort/Will), and one poor one (Refl). The Rogue is the exact opposite. Is there a middleground save progression- perhaps one that gets to 5- that I can make all three of the saves go to? [/B]
    There is a "medium" save progression, kind of, in that the scout and swashbuckler get two class features (Battle Fortitude and Grace, respectively) that effectively make their Fort and Ref saves go from +1 to +9, rather than +0 to +6 or +2 to +12. For simplicity's sake, you could do something like this:

    Nature's Protection (Ex): A Wraithwood Refugee can draw on the heartiness of the bear, the swiftness of an elk, and the will of an ox. He gains a +2 bonus to all saving throws in natural environments.

    That gets them up to a +5 without messing with the table, and the natural-environment restriction further reinforces the theme.

    Sounds good. Only two more that I've thought I would like your opinion on:
    Knowledge (Dungeoneering): the Refugee is just as likely to hide in a cave as up a tree,
    Disable Device: The Refugee must build snares and other small traps with moving parts to feed himself and make his shelter. It therefore follows he understands how to take them apart, right?
    Both of those make sense.

    Would it be unwise/OP to supplement this with "However, each level of Wraithwood Refugee counts as an effective Druid level when determining bonuses for an animal companion."? Would it be better to put that under a separate 'Animal Companion' ability instead?
    A separate ability would be best, to make things more clear.

    Nature's Armaments:
    Hmmm... I've given this subject a bit more thought. I initially intended it to stack straight to nauseating- but as it does not allow for a Fort save, that means pretty much everything the Refugee Sneak Attacks would be unable to return fire, period, for the price of 1d6.
    You could always add a save to that, having it nauseate the target with a Fort save (DC 10 + class level + Wis) to reduce that to the normal sickened.
    Better to DM in Baator than play in Celestia
    You can just call me Dice; that's how I roll.


    Spoiler: Sig of Holding
    Show

    Quote Originally Posted by abadguy View Post
    Darn you PoDL for making me care about a bunch of NPC Commoners!
    Quote Originally Posted by Chambers View Post
    I'm pretty sure turning Waterdeep into a sheet of glass wasn't the best win condition for that fight. We lived though!
    Quote Originally Posted by MaxiDuRaritry View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by PairO'DiceLost View Post
    <Snip>
    Where are my Like, Love, and Want to Have Your Manchildren (Totally Homo) buttons for this post?
    Won a cookie for this, won everything for this

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Griffon

    Join Date
    Aug 2014

    Default Re: Wraithwood Refugee

    Revision 1:

    Wraithwood Refugee
    SP: 6 + Int HD: d6
    Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special
    1 +0 +1 +1 +1 Camoflage, Natural Living, Animal Companion, Wraithwalk, +1 Divine spellcasting level, Sneak Attack +1d6
    2 +1 +1 +1 +1 Evasion, Tremorsense 30', +1 Divine spellcasting level
    3 +2 +2 +2 +2 Nature's Armaments, Darkstalker, +1 Divine spellcasting level, Sneak Attack +2d6
    4 +3 +2 +2 +2 Animalistic Casting, +1 Divine spellcasting level
    5 +3 +3 +3 +3 Improved Camoflage, Ambush Predator, +1 Divine spellcasting level, Sneak Attack +3d6
    6 +4 +3 +3 +3 Slippery Bastard, +1 Divine spellcasting level
    7 +5 +4 +4 +4 Perceptive, Improved Nature's Armaments, +1 Divine spellcasting level, Sneak Attack +4d6
    8 +6 +4 +4 +4 Reflexive Awareness, +1 Divine spellcasting level
    9 +6 +5 +5 +5 Hidden Stride, +1 Divine spellcasting level, Sneak Attack +5d6
    10 +7 +5 +5 +5 Blindsight 30', +1 Divine spellcasting level
    Note: Saves still in question.

    Proficiencies: The Wraithwood Refugee does not gain any proficiencies.

    Class Skills: Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Disable Device (Int), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Dungeoneering) (Int), Knowledge (nature) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Spot (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), and Use Rope (Dex).

    Class Features:
    Camoflage (Ex)- In natural terrain, the Wraithwood Refugee does not require concealment to Hide.

    Wraithwalk (Ex)- The Wraithwood Refugee can move at full speed while Hiding or Moving Silently without incurring penalties. The Wraithwood Refugee does not incur environmental penalties to his Hide or Move Silently skills by moving through noisy environments.

    Natural Living (Ex)- After spending so long in the company of only himself and animals, the Wraithwood Refugee has lost touch with civilization. The Wraithwood Refugee takes a -2 penalty on all Charisma-based skill checks to interact with or know about civilization and all such checks made in civilized environments or in groups of 10 or more civilized creatures.

    Animal Companion (Ex)- Functions as the druid ability of the same name. (may alter)

    Tremorsense 30' (Su)- A blessing of his newfound connection to nature.

    Evasion (Ex)- The Wraithwood Refugee gains Evasion/Uncanny Dodge/Improved Evasion/Improved Uncanny Dodge/+2 Dex (abilities as per Rogue), whichever he first does not yet have.

    Nature's Armaments (Ex)- While he is wielding a weapon made from wood or bone, when a foe takes damage from the Refugee's Sneak Attack, he is sickened for one round. This does not stack when used in conjunction with the Sickening Strike feat.

    Darkstalker (Ex)- The Wraithwood Refugee is granted the benefits of the Darkstalker feat.

    Animalistic Casting (Ex): Learning from the original source of Druidic magic has endowed the Refugee with one extra druid spell slot per day of the highest spell level he can cast. As nature has no language, the Refugee has learned to cast without verbal components: all druid spells cast by the Refugee are cast as if Silenced without taking up a higher-level spell slot, but any spells cast in this way gain a somatic component if they do not already possess one.
    Additionally, if a druid spell the Refugee casts requires a Dexterity- or Wisdom-based ability check or skill check, or enhances such a check, the Refugee may use the higher of his Dexterity or Wisdom modifier for that check.

    Improved Camouflage (Ex)- The Wraithwood Refugee can hide without concealment in any environment.

    Ambush Predator (Ex)- By studying the large predatorial cats of the Wraithwood, the Refugee has learned how to start and end fights with one attack- but only while striking from a Hidden position. If the Refugee charges while Hiding, he gains the Pounce ability and remains Hidden for the duration of the charge.

    Perceptive (Ex)- The Wraithwood Refugee has spent many years refining the art of hiding. Nothing can hide from him. The Wraithwood Refugee ignores all forms of concealment and gains a +5 bonus to Spot and Listen checks.

    Improved Nature's Armaments (Ex)- While he is wielding a weapon made from wood or bone, when a foe takes damage from the Refugee's Sneak Attack, he is staggered for one round. This does not stack if used in conjunction with the Staggering Strike feat.

    Slippery Bastard (Ex)- The Wraithwood Refugee can Hide while being observed if he is in natural terrain.

    Reflexive Awareness (Ex)- A mortal can never afford to lower his guard while in the Wraithwood. Any attacks of opportunity the Wraithwood Refugee would provoke allow him to make a Reflex saving throw and use the result as his AC rather than his actual AC. However, he must declare this usage prior to making the roll.

    Hidden Step(Sp)- As an immediate action, every 2 rounds the Wraithwood Refugee can move 5' or less. This movement provokes an attack of opportunity.

    Blindsight 30' (Ex)- After so many years in the Wraithwood, the Refugee's senses have become so finely tuned that he is aware of the environment around him at all times and under any conditions, unless both blinded and deafened. This does not replace his tremorsense.


    Prerequisites:
    Craven Feat
    Hide, lvl 8
    Move Silently, lvl 8
    Survival, lvl 4
    Sneak Attack Class Feature
    Animal Companion

    Special:
    Woodland Stride (may remove)
    Last edited by SosadhScath; 2014-08-11 at 12:10 PM.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Griffon

    Join Date
    Aug 2014

    Default Re: Wraithwood Refugee

    For the nauseating fort save- yes, but what about when a rogue is making six sneak attacks per turn against a flanked target... Eek. Eventually, the target is going to roll something less than 10.
    Sure, wood isn't a great weapon material, but the ironwood and greater ironwood spells exist, and this was supposed to work with those.

    I think splitting it improves the point and rewards a PC for sticking in the class longer.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    PairO'Dice Lost's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Malsheem, Nessus
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Wraithwood Refugee

    Quote Originally Posted by SosadhScath View Post
    For the nauseating fort save- yes, but what about when a rogue is making six sneak attacks per turn against a flanked target... Eek. Eventually, the target is going to roll something less than 10.
    Sticking status effects on a TWF rogue isn't unique to this class (using Dex or Con poison is a common and very effective tactic), but if you're concerned about that then splitting up the abilities works as well.
    Better to DM in Baator than play in Celestia
    You can just call me Dice; that's how I roll.


    Spoiler: Sig of Holding
    Show

    Quote Originally Posted by abadguy View Post
    Darn you PoDL for making me care about a bunch of NPC Commoners!
    Quote Originally Posted by Chambers View Post
    I'm pretty sure turning Waterdeep into a sheet of glass wasn't the best win condition for that fight. We lived though!
    Quote Originally Posted by MaxiDuRaritry View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by PairO'DiceLost View Post
    <Snip>
    Where are my Like, Love, and Want to Have Your Manchildren (Totally Homo) buttons for this post?
    Won a cookie for this, won everything for this

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Griffon

    Join Date
    Aug 2014

    Default Re: Wraithwood Refugee

    Revision 2:

    Wraithwood Refugee
    SP: 6 + Int HD: d6
    Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special
    1 +0 +0 +2 +2 Camoflage, Natural Living, Wild Whisperer, Wraithwalk, +1 Divine spellcasting level, Sneak Attack +1d6
    2 +1 +0 +3 +3 Evasion, One With Nature, Tremorsense 30', +1 Divine spellcasting level
    3 +2 +1 +3 +3 Nature's Armaments, Darkstalker, +1 Divine spellcasting level, Sneak Attack +2d6
    4 +3 +1 +4 +4 Animalistic Casting, +1 Divine spellcasting level
    5 +3 +1 +4 +4 Improved Camoflage, Ambush Predator, +1 Divine spellcasting level, Sneak Attack +3d6
    6 +4 +2 +5 +5 Slippery Bastard, +1 Divine spellcasting level
    7 +5 +2 +5 +5 Perceptive, Improved Nature's Armaments, +1 Divine spellcasting level, Sneak Attack +4d6
    8 +6 +2 +6 +6 Reflexive Awareness, +1 Divine spellcasting level
    9 +6 +3 +6 +6 Hidden Stride, +1 Divine spellcasting level, Sneak Attack +5d6
    10 +7 +3 +7 +7 Blindsight 30', Avenger of Nature, +1 Divine spellcasting level

    Proficiencies: The Wraithwood Refugee does not gain any proficiencies.

    Class Skills: Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Disable Device (Int), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Dungeoneering) (Int), Knowledge (nature) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Spot (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), and Use Rope (Dex).

    Class Features:
    Camoflage (Ex)- In natural terrain, the Wraithwood Refugee does not require concealment to Hide.

    Wraithwalk (Ex)- The Wraithwood Refugee can move at full speed while Hiding or Moving Silently without incurring penalties. The Wraithwood Refugee does not incur environmental penalties to his Hide or Move Silently skills by moving through noisy environments.

    Natural Living (Ex)- After spending so long in the company of only himself and animals, the Wraithwood Refugee has lost touch with civilization. The Wraithwood Refugee takes a -2 penalty on all Charisma-based skill checks to interact with or know about civilization and all such checks made in civilized environments or in groups of 10 or more civilized creatures. He gains a +2 bonus on all Charisma-based skill checks to interact with or know about animals or magical beasts.

    Wild Wihisperer (Ex)- After spending so long in the company of only himself and animals, the Wraithwood Refugee has come to understand and befriend the other inhabitants of his world. This functions as the Druid Animal Companion ability. Effective Druid Level = Wraithwood Refugee Level + 1.

    Evasion (Ex)- The Wraithwood Refugee gains Evasion/Uncanny Dodge/Improved Evasion/Improved Uncanny Dodge/+2 Dex (abilities as per Rogue), whichever he first does not yet have.

    One With Nature (Ex)- The Wraithwood Refugee gains a +2 insight bonus to all saving throws while in natural terrain.

    Tremorsense 30' (Su)- A blessing of his newfound connection to nature.

    Nature's Armaments (Ex)- While he is wielding a weapon made from wood or bone, when a foe takes damage from the Refugee's Sneak Attack, he is sickened for one round. This does not stack when used in conjunction with the Sickening Strike feat.

    Darkstalker (Ex)- The Wraithwood Refugee is granted the benefits of the Darkstalker feat.

    Animalistic Casting (Ex): Learning from the original source of Druidic magic has endowed the Refugee with one extra druid spell slot per day of the highest spell level he can cast. As nature has no language, the Refugee has learned to cast without verbal components: all druid spells cast by the Refugee are cast as if Silenced without taking up a higher-level spell slot, but any spells cast in this way gain a somatic component if they do not already possess one.
    Additionally, if a druid spell the Refugee casts requires a Dexterity- or Wisdom-based ability check or skill check, or enhances such a check, the Refugee may use the higher of his Dexterity or Wisdom modifier for that check.

    Improved Camouflage (Ex)- The Wraithwood Refugee can hide without concealment in any environment.

    Ambush Predator (Ex)- By studying the large predatorial cats of the Wraithwood, the Refugee has learned how to start and end fights with one attack- but only while striking from a Hidden position. If the Refugee charges while Hiding, he gains the Pounce ability and remains Hidden for the duration of the charge.

    Perceptive (Ex)- The Wraithwood Refugee has spent many years refining the art of hiding. Nothing can hide from him. The Wraithwood Refugee ignores all forms of concealment and gains a +5 bonus to Spot and Listen checks.

    Improved Nature's Armaments (Ex)- While he is wielding a weapon made from wood or bone, when a foe takes damage from the Refugee's Sneak Attack, he is staggered for one round. This does not stack if used in conjunction with the Staggering Strike feat.

    Slippery Bastard (Ex)- The Wraithwood Refugee can Hide while being observed if he is in natural terrain.

    Reflexive Awareness (Ex)- A mortal can never afford to lower his guard while in the Wraithwood. Any attacks of opportunity the Wraithwood Refugee would provoke allow him to make a Reflex saving throw and use the result as his AC rather than his actual AC. However, he must declare this usage prior to making the roll.

    Hidden Step(Sp)- As an immediate action, every 2 rounds the Wraithwood Refugee can move 5' or less. This movement provokes an attack of opportunity.

    Blindsight 30' (Ex)- After so many years in the Wraithwood, the Refugee's senses have become so finely tuned that he is aware of the environment around him at all times and under any conditions, unless both blinded and deafened. This does not replace his tremorsense.

    Avenger of Nature (Ex)- The Wildwood Refugee shuns all perversions of his world. He adds his Wisdom modifier to all attack and damage rolls, and spell save DCs, against unnatural creatures- aberrations, oozes, undead, constructs, and against all creatures with the inherent ability to petrify (Basilisks, Cockatrice, Medusa, Gorgons, etc.).


    Prerequisites:
    Craven Feat
    Hide, lvl 8
    Move Silently, lvl 8
    Survival, lvl 4
    Sneak Attack Class Feature
    Animal Companion

    Special:
    Woodland Stride

    New Feats:
    Pack of Thieves: all Druid Levels now gain Sneak Attack as if they were Rogue Levels. All Rogue Levels count towards effective Druid Levels for determining Animal Companion and Wildshape.

    Improved Companion:
    You may take animal companions who have had a template applied to them. In this manner, you may take Magical Beasts as companions. Your companion must be the same alignment as you after the application of the template.
    If a template would cause Level Adjustment, the adjusted levels count against your total Effective Druid Level.


    And I think that should about do it. Fixed the saves, added One With Nature for the saves and Nature's Avenger- which gives him a good way of dealing with anything immune to Sneak Attack except Plants.
    Sweet. Class. Thanks PairO'Dice. Now to see how this works in play. :D
    Last edited by SosadhScath; 2014-08-14 at 10:51 PM.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Griffon

    Join Date
    Aug 2014

    Default Re: Wraithwood Refugee

    Revision 3:
    (Because Avenger of Nature doesn't really fit the flavor)

    Wraithwood Refugee
    SP: 6 + Int HD: d6
    Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special
    1 +0 +2 +2 +0 Camoflage, Wild Whisperer, Wraithwalk, +1 Divine spellcasting level, Sneak Attack +1d6
    2 +1 +3 +3 +0 Evasion, Blindsight 30', +1 Divine spellcasting level
    3 +2 +3 +3 +1 Nature's Armaments, Darkstalker, +1 Divine spellcasting level, Sneak Attack +2d6
    4 +3 +4 +4 +1 Animalistic Casting, +1 Divine spellcasting level
    5 +3 +4 +4 +1 Improved Camoflage, Ambush Predator, +1 Divine spellcasting level, Sneak Attack +3d6
    6 +4 +5 +5 +2 Improved Nature's Armaments, +1 Divine spellcasting level
    7 +5 +5 +5 +2 Perceptive, Predator Sense, +1 Divine spellcasting level, Sneak Attack +4d6
    8 +6 +6 +6 +2 Reflex Awareness, +1 Divine spellcasting level
    9 +6 +6 +6 +3 Hidden Stride, +1 Divine spellcasting level, Sneak Attack +5d6
    10 +7 +7 +7 +3 Tremorsense 90', Hide in Plain Sight, Slippery Bastard, +1 Divine spellcasting level

    Proficiencies: The Wraithwood Refugee does not gain any proficiencies.

    Class Skills: Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Disable Device (Int), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Dungeoneering) (Int), Knowledge (nature) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Spot (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), and Use Rope (Dex).

    Class Features:
    Camoflage (Ex)- In natural terrain, the Wraithwood Refugee does not require concealment to Hide.

    Wraithwalk (Ex)- The Wraithwood Refugee can move at full speed while Hiding or Moving Silently without incurring penalties. The Wraithwood Refugee does not incur environmental penalties to his Hide or Move Silently skills by moving through noisy environments.

    Wild Whisperer (Ex)- After spending so long in the company of only himself and animals, the Wraithwood Refugee has come to understand and befriend the other inhabitants of his world. This functions as the Druid Animal Companion ability.

    Evasion (Ex)- The Wraithwood Refugee gains Evasion/Uncanny Dodge/Improved Evasion/Improved Uncanny Dodge/+2 Dex (abilities as per Rogue), whichever he first does not yet have.

    Blindsight 30' (Ex)- After so many years in the Wraithwood, the Refugee's senses have become so finely tuned that he is aware of the environment around him at all times and under any conditions, unless both blinded and deafened.

    Nature's Armaments (Ex)- While he is wielding a weapon made from wood or bone, when a foe takes damage from the Refugee's Sneak Attack, the foe is sickened for one round. This does not stack when used in conjunction with the Sickening Strike feat.

    Darkstalker (Ex)- The Wraithwood Refugee is granted the benefits of the Darkstalker feat.

    Animalistic Casting (Ex): Learning from the original source of Druidic magic has endowed the Refugee with one extra druid spell slot per day of the highest spell level he can cast. As nature has no language, the Refugee has learned to cast without verbal components: all druid spells cast by the Refugee are cast as if Silenced without taking up a higher-level spell slot, but any spells cast in this way gain a somatic component if they do not already possess one.
    Additionally, if a druid spell the Refugee casts requires a Dexterity- or Wisdom-based ability check or skill check, or enhances such a check, the Refugee may use the higher of his Dexterity or Wisdom modifier for that check.

    Improved Camouflage (Ex)- The Wraithwood Refugee can hide without concealment in any environment.

    Ambush Predator (Ex)- By studying the large predatorial cats of the Wraithwood, the Refugee has learned how to start and end fights with one attack- but only while striking from a Hidden position. If the Refugee charges while Hiding, he gains the Pounce ability and remains Hidden for the duration of the charge.

    Perceptive (Ex)- The Wraithwood Refugee has spent many years refining the art of hiding. Nothing can hide from him. The Wraithwood Refugee ignores all forms of concealment, both mundane and magical, and gains a +5 bonus to Spot and Listen checks.

    Predator Sense (Ex)- The Wraithwood Refugee is the apex predator of his domain. He understands the weak points of creatures with even the strangest anatomies, and deals half his Sneak Attack damage to creatures normally immune to Sneak Attack when Sneak Attacking them.

    HiPS (Ex)- The Wraithwood Refugee can Hide while being observed if he is in natural terrain.

    Reflex Awareness (Ex)- A mortal can never afford to lower his guard while in the Wraithwood. Any time he would trigger an attack of opportunity, the Wraithwood Refugee makes a Reflex Save equal to (11+ OpposingDexBonus) against the target that would make the attack. If he succeeds, he does not provoke an attack of opportunity.
    This does not apply to attacks of opportunity provoked when the Refugee is flat-footed.

    Hidden Step(Sp)- As an immediate action, every 2 rounds the Wraithwood Refugee can move 5'. This movement does not provoke an attack of opportunity.

    Tremorsense 90' (Ex)- By feeling the slightest vibrations in the ground, a Refugee can tell who is around him in all directions.

    Improved Nature's Armaments (Ex)- While he is wielding a weapon made from wood or bone, when a foe takes damage from the Refugee's Sneak Attack, the foe is staggered for one round. This does not stack if used in conjunction with the Staggering Strike feat.

    Slippery Bastard (Ex)- The Refugee's ability to Hide extends beyond simply being seen. Any character attempting to scry the Refugee must make a caster level check (DC= 20+Wis Modifier)

    Prerequisites:
    Craven Feat
    Hide, lvl 8
    Move Silently, lvl 8
    Survival, lvl 4
    Sneak Attack Class Feature
    Animal Companion

    Special:
    Woodland Stride

    New Feats:
    Pack of Thieves: all Druid Levels now gain Sneak Attack as if they were Rogue Levels. All Rogue Levels count towards effective Druid Levels for determining Animal Companion and Wildshape.

    Improved Companion:
    You may take animal companions who have had a template of LA+1 or less applied to them. In this manner, you may take Magical Beasts as companions. Your companion must be the same alignment as you after the application of the template.
    If a template would cause Level Adjustment, the adjusted levels count against your total Effective Druid Level.
    Last edited by SosadhScath; 2014-09-20 at 10:32 PM.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Griffon

    Join Date
    Aug 2014

    Default Re: Wraithwood Refugee

    Revision 4: Offensive Reorganization (slightly lower powered version)
    (Because Avenger of Nature doesn't really fit the flavor)

    Wraithwood Refugee
    SP: 6 + Int HD: d6
    Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special
    1 +0 +2 +2 +0 Animalistic Casting, Wraithwalk, +1 Divine spellcasting level, Sneak Attack +1d6
    2 +1 +3 +3 +0 Nature's Armaments, Ambush Predator, +1 Divine spellcasting level
    3 +2 +3 +3 +1 Predator Sense, +1 Divine spellcasting level, Sneak Attack +2d6
    4 +3 +4 +4 +1 Improved Nature's Armaments, +1 Divine spellcasting level
    5 +3 +4 +4 +1 Wild Whisperer, +1 Divine spellcasting level, Sneak Attack +3d6
    6 +4 +5 +5 +2 Camoflage, Darkstalker, +1 Divine spellcasting level
    7 +5 +5 +5 +2 Perceptive, +1 Divine spellcasting level, Sneak Attack +4d6
    8 +6 +6 +6 +2 Reflex Awareness, +1 Divine spellcasting level
    9 +6 +6 +6 +3 Hidden Stride, +1 Divine spellcasting level, Sneak Attack +5d6
    10 +7 +7 +7 +3 Tremorsense 90', Hide in Plain Sight, Slippery Bastard, +1 Divine spellcasting level

    Proficiencies: The Wraithwood Refugee does not gain any proficiencies.

    Class Skills: Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Disable Device (Int), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Dungeoneering) (Int), Knowledge (nature) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Spot (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), and Use Rope (Dex).

    Class Features:

    Animalistic Instincts (Ex): Learning from the original source of Druidic magic has endowed the Refugee with one extra druid spell slot per day of the highest spell level he can cast. As nature has no language, the Refugee has learned to cast without verbal components: all druid spells cast by the Refugee are cast as if Silenced without taking up a higher-level spell slot, but any spells cast in this way gain a somatic component if they do not already possess one.
    Additionally, if any spell or spell-like ability the Refugee casts or any supernatural ability the Refugee uses requires a Strength- or Dexterity-based ability check or skill check, or enhances such a check, the Refugee may use the higher of his Dexterity or Wisdom modifier for that check.

    Wraithwalk (Ex)- The Wraithwood Refugee can move at full speed while Hiding or Moving Silently without incurring penalties. The Wraithwood Refugee does not incur environmental penalties to his Hide or Move Silently skills by moving through noisy environments.

    Nature's Armaments (Ex)- While he is wielding a weapon made from wood or bone, when a foe takes damage from the Refugee's Sneak Attack, the foe is sickened for one round. This does not stack when used in conjunction with the Sickening Strike feat.

    Ambush Predator (Ex)- By studying the large predatorial cats of the Wraithwood, the Refugee has learned how to start and end fights with one attack- but only while striking from a Hidden position. If the Refugee charges while Hiding, he gains the Pounce ability and remains Hidden for the duration of the charge.

    Improved Nature's Armaments (Ex)- While he is wielding a weapon made from wood or bone, when a foe takes damage from the Refugee's Sneak Attack, the foe is staggered for one round. This does not stack if used in conjunction with the Staggering Strike feat.

    Predator Sense (Ex)- The Wraithwood Refugee is the apex predator of his domain. He understands the weak points of creatures with even the strangest anatomies, and deals half his Sneak Attack damage to creatures normally immune to Sneak Attack when Sneak Attacking them.

    Wild Whisperer (Ex)- Any creature that this companion and its master are both adjacent to is considered flanked, regardless of their positions relative to each other and the target creature.

    Camoflage (Ex)- In natural terrain, the Wraithwood Refugee does not require concealment to Hide.

    Darkstalker (Ex)- The Wraithwood Refugee is granted the benefits of the Darkstalker feat.

    Perceptive (Ex)- The Wraithwood Refugee has spent many years refining the art of hiding. Nothing can hide from him. The Wraithwood Refugee ignores all forms of concealment, both mundane and magical, and gains a +5 bonus to Spot and Listen checks.

    Reflex Awareness (Ex)- A mortal can never afford to lower his guard while in the Wraithwood. Any time he would trigger an attack of opportunity, the Wraithwood Refugee makes a Reflex Save equal to (11+ OpposingDexBonus) against the target that would make the attack. If he succeeds, he does not provoke an attack of opportunity.
    This does not apply to attacks of opportunity provoked when the Refugee is flat-footed.

    Hidden Step(Sp)- As an immediate action, every 2 rounds the Wraithwood Refugee can move 5'. This movement does not provoke an attack of opportunity.

    Tremorsense 90' (Ex)- By feeling the slightest vibrations in the ground, a Refugee can tell who is around him in all directions.

    Slippery Bastard (Ex)- The Refugee's ability to Hide extends beyond simply being seen. Any character attempting to scry the Refugee must make a caster level check (DC= 20+Wis Modifier).

    HiPS (Ex)- The Wraithwood Refugee can Hide while being observed if he is in non-urban terrain.

    Prerequisites:
    Craven Feat
    Hide, lvl 8
    Move Silently, lvl 8
    Survival, lvl 4
    Sneak Attack Class Feature
    Animal Companion

    Special:
    Woodland Stride

    New Feats:
    Pack of Thieves: all Druid Levels now gain Sneak Attack as if they were Rogue Levels. All Rogue Levels count towards effective Druid Levels for determining Animal Companion and Wildshape.

    Improved Companion:
    You may take animal companions who have had a template of LA+1 or less applied to them. In this manner, you may take Magical Beasts as companions. Your companion must be the same alignment as you after the application of the template.
    If a template would cause Level Adjustment, the adjusted levels count against your total Effective Druid Level.
    Last edited by SosadhScath; 2014-09-21 at 12:09 AM.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Ettin in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2014

    Default Re: Wraithwood Refugee

    Hm. This class gets enough features that I don't think it should also get full casting AND full sneak attack; I would recommend improving casting at levels 2/3/5/6/8/9 and sneak attack at 1/4/7/10; they get one or the other at each level. 6/10 casting hurts, but this class seems more for Rogues with a few levels of Druid on the side than it is for Druids with a few levels of Rogue on the side.

    Further commentary (abilities I don't mention are nice, but not really worthy of commentary):
    Wraithwalk: Environmental factors are pretty much the only things that penalize move silently, so this ability is a bit strong. Maybe, since they're a nature-focused class, only eliminate penalties from plants? i.e. they're able to ignore penalties from dried leaves and twigs, but not from gravel or rice paper.

    Nature's Armaments: I like. Wood/Bone weapons aren't ever used in games where steel is available, but this encourages otherwise.

    Ambush Predator: Again, cool ability. Might want to clarify what "remains hidden" means. Maybe specify that if they charge a target who failed to notice the Refugee, the target remains unaware of the Refugee (and thus flat-footed) until after the charge is completed?

    Predator Sense: Good. Letting rogues deal some damage to SA-immune foes keeps them relevant at higher levels.

    Wild Whisperer: Fun and flavorful. Also more ways for rogues to flank, those are nice.

    Perceptive: They have the skill points to already be putting ranks into both Spot and Listen, so +5 is a bit much; maybe grant them the Alertness feat while outdoors, and then also let them ignore all forms of non-total cover and non-total concealment.

    Reflex Awareness: A bit powerful, but at the same time something the rogue would already be doing with tumble, and also a little complicated. Maybe let the Reflex save replace their AC, like so:
    Reflex Awareness (Ex):A mortal can never afford to lower his guard while in the Wraithwood. When an enemy makes an attack of opportunity against a Wraithwood Refugee of 8th level or higher, the Refugee can roll a Reflex save and use the save result as their Armor Class against that attack if the save result is higher than their normal Armor Class. This ability can only be used against attacks of opportunity, and cannot be used while the Refugee is flat-footed.

    Tremorsense: 90 feet is a much bigger range than most monsters with tremorsense. 30' is the normal, but is a bit small for a capstone. Maybe give them 30' at 5th level, which expands to 60' at 10th level?
    Please use they/them/theirs when referring to me in the third person.
    My Homebrew (PF, 3.5)
    Awesome Bone Knight avatar by Chd.
    Spoiler: Current Characters
    Show
    Cassidy Halloran, Human Scout
    William Gamache, Human Relic Channeler Medium
    Spoiler: Quotes
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by AGrinningCat View Post
    Lay on hands? More like Lay your Eyes on this sick elbow drop!

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Griffon

    Join Date
    Aug 2014

    Default Re: Wraithwood Refugee

    Quote Originally Posted by Extra Anchovies View Post
    Hm. This class gets enough features that I don't think it should also get full casting AND full sneak attack; I would recommend improving casting at levels 2/3/5/6/8/9 and sneak attack at 1/4/7/10; they get one or the other at each level. 6/10 casting hurts, but this class seems more for Rogues with a few levels of Druid on the side than it is for Druids with a few levels of Rogue on the side.
    I tend to agree with you, but this class already rides a weird line by bridging a tier 1 CoDzilla and a tier 4 rogue.
    While the casting may seem excessive, a druid entering this class is giving up wildshape levels- probably 10- to take this class. Removing one of the three legs of the Druid Triangle seems like enough of a power hit, when the aim was to make a tier-2 sneaky style melee Druid, not a tier 3'er.

    You do raise a fair point, though. I might reduce it to a 1/4/7/10 SA and a 9/10 casting- this class is meant to be a Rogue who ran away to escape punishment in the city and then turned to Druidry to survive in a hostile forest.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Griffon

    Join Date
    Aug 2014

    Default Re: Wraithwood Refugee

    As to the rest of it:

    Quote Originally Posted by Extra Anchovies View Post

    Further commentary (abilities I don't mention are nice, but not really worthy of commentary):
    Wraithwalk: Environmental factors are pretty much the only things that penalize move silently, so this ability is a bit strong. Maybe, since they're a nature-focused class, only eliminate penalties from plants? i.e. they're able to ignore penalties from dried leaves and twigs, but not from gravel or rice paper.

    Nature's Armaments: I like. Wood/Bone weapons aren't ever used in games where steel is available, but this encourages otherwise.

    Ambush Predator: Again, cool ability. Might want to clarify what "remains hidden" means. Maybe specify that if they charge a target who failed to notice the Refugee, the target remains unaware of the Refugee (and thus flat-footed) until after the charge is completed?

    Predator Sense: Good. Letting rogues deal some damage to SA-immune foes keeps them relevant at higher levels.

    Wild Whisperer: Fun and flavorful. Also more ways for rogues to flank, those are nice.

    Perceptive: They have the skill points to already be putting ranks into both Spot and Listen, so +5 is a bit much; maybe grant them the Alertness feat while outdoors, and then also let them ignore all forms of non-total cover and non-total concealment.

    Reflex Awareness: A bit powerful, but at the same time something the rogue would already be doing with tumble, and also a little complicated. Maybe let the Reflex save replace their AC, like so:
    Reflex Awareness (Ex):A mortal can never afford to lower his guard while in the Wraithwood. When an enemy makes an attack of opportunity against a Wraithwood Refugee of 8th level or higher, the Refugee can roll a Reflex save and use the save result as their Armor Class against that attack if the save result is higher than their normal Armor Class. This ability can only be used against attacks of opportunity, and cannot be used while the Refugee is flat-footed.

    Tremorsense: 90 feet is a much bigger range than most monsters with tremorsense. 30' is the normal, but is a bit small for a capstone. Maybe give them 30' at 5th level, which expands to 60' at 10th level?
    Wraithwalk: A Refugee is meant to not be seen or heard, period, in natural environments- from marshes to jungles. I didn't consider that there would be difficult terrain in urban environments, though- rice paper, garbage etc. I'll throw that in.

    Nature's Armaments: YES! I always get annoyed when the druid who can't wear steel armor is waving around a steel Greatmace or whatever. Always fun to incentivize weird stuff, and by taking away the wildshape, a Refugee might actually have to think about their weapons.
    Last edited by SosadhScath; 2014-10-12 at 03:02 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •