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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default [5e D&D] Surrealistik's Monk Homebrew

    Just thought I'd throw out some love for my fav 5e class:

    Deflect Missiles fix:
    When you reduce the damage of an attack to 0 with this feature, that attack has no effect on its target (a poisoned or cursed arrow whose damage is reduced to 0 wouldn't inflict its poison or curse for example).

    Perfect Self fix:
    At the start of each of your turns (or every 6 seconds outside of combat), you regain 1 Ki if you have less Ki than 8 minus the total Ki cost (if any) of any of your effects created by a Monk class feature with a minute duration or longer that are active.

    Wholeness of Body fix:
    At 6th level, you gain the ability to heal yourself. As an action, you can do one of the following:
    • Spend X Ki to regain hit points equal to 5 times X. If you were restored to maximum hit points in this way, this effect also cures any diseases or poisons you're subject to.
    • Spend 4 Ki to subject yourself to the effects of the Remove Curse spell.

    You must finish a short or long rest before you can use this feature again.

    Tranquility fix:
    Beginning at 11th level, you can enter a special meditation that surrounds you with an aura of peace. At the end of a long rest or short rest, or when you spend 2 Ki as an Action, you gain the effect of a Sanctuary spell that lasts until the start of your next long rest (the spell can end early as normal). The saving throw DC for the spell equals 8 + your Wisdom modifier + your proficiency bonus or your Ki DC, whichever is higher.



    Way of the Mageslayer:

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    3rd level, Mageslayer Initiate: You gain the Mage Slayer perk.

    You are always under the effects of Detect Magic. You can dismiss or regain its effects at any time while you're not incapacitated.


    6th level, Mageslayer Disciple: Your Deflect Missiles class feature can be used against spells and magical effects with an attack roll and/or saving throw that do not affect an area and that target you. If a spell or magical effect you're using this feature on has an attack roll, or a saving throw, make an opposing attack roll or a save with proficiency against its save DC. If your attack roll equals or exceeds its attack roll, or your save equals or exceeds its save DC, it has no effect on you. You can then spend Ki equal to that spellís level to copy it (or Ki equal to the greater of 1 or the target's CR (max 9) if it is a non-spell magical effect). If the copied spell or effect has one or more attack rolls, make new attack rolls for it. Your attack bonus for these rolls equals your Proficiency bonus + your Dexterity modifier. This copied spell or magical effect now originates from a square occupied by the target protected in this way thatís within reach of your unarmed strike or a Monk weapon you are wielding (the spell or magical effect is otherwise identical), you make all choices for this copied spell or magical effect, and if it would have more than one target, it has only one target instead.


    11th level, Mageslayer Expert: You have advantage on saving throws and checks made against spells and magic effects.

    As a Bonus Action or Reaction you can spend 1 Ki to gain resistance to damage from spells and magical effects, and impose disadvantage on attack rolls against you from spells and magical effects until the end of your next turn.

    You can spend 6 Ki points to cast True Seeing on yourself as an Action. This spell doesn't require concentration or components when cast in this way and you can dismiss it and its effects at any time.


    18th level, Mageslayer Master: As an Action, you can spend 8 Ki points to cast Antimagic Field without components. This form of Antimagic Field does not require concentration and you can dismiss it and its effects at any time.



    Way of the Dodging Crane:

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    3rd level, Improved Dodge: Your Dodge benefits apply to attackers you can't see. Creatures you can't see don't have advantage on their attack rolls against you.

    When you use your Patient Defense ki feature, until the start of your next turn, you gain the following benefits:
    • Whenever a creature misses you while youíre benefiting from the Dodge action, you can spend your Reaction to move 5 feet and make a melee attack against that creature using your Unarmed Strike or a Monk Weapon. You may spend 1 Ki to make that attack with Advantage. If you do and that attack hits, the target must succeed on a Strength check against your Ki or Maneuver DC or be knocked prone.
    • Whenever the source of an attack roll or Dexterity saving throw would have a partial effect against you when it misses you and/or when you succeed on that saving throw, it has no effect against you instead.



    6th level, ???: WIP


    11th level, Supreme Evasion: As a Reaction you can spend 2 Ki (or 1 Ki while youíre benefiting from the Dodge action) when you are within a spell, ability, trap or attackís area of effect or range to move a number of feet up to half your walking speed to a space outside of that area of effect or range before its effects are applied. If you do, you are no longer subject to the effects of the triggering element. This movement doesnít provoke opportunity attacks.

    18th level, Impossible Dodge: You can spend 4 Ki (or 2 Ki while youíre benefiting from the Dodge action) to either force an attack roll made against you to automatically miss (after you know the result), or to automatically succeed on a Dexterity saving throw. If the source of that attack roll or saving throw would have a partial effect against you on a miss or successful saving throw, it has no effect against you instead.



    Way of the Rushing Wind:

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    3rd level, Swift Flight: While benefiting from Unarmoured Movement, whenever you use your Step of the Wind ki feature your movement doesn't provoke opportunity attacks and you gain a fly speed equal to your walking speed. If you already have a fly speed, it equals your walking speed or is doubled instead, whichever is greater.

    6th level, Blinding Speed: While benefiting from Unarmoured Movement, whenever you use Step of the Wind, you can spend 2 Ki instead of 1 to double your walking speed, gain Advantage on melee and ranged weapon attack rolls, retain the benefits of Swift Flight, and gain the benefits of Dodge until the start of your next turn. Until these benefits end, while you move, no creature other than you can take Reactions and whenever a creature comes within the melee reach of your unarmed strike or a Monk Weapon you are wielding during your turn, you can make a melee weapon attack against it with using that weapon. A creature can't be attacked in this way more than once per turn.

    11th level, Ki Mobility: While benefiting from Unarmoured Movement, as an Action or Bonus Action, you can spend 4 Ki to cast Dimension Door, Freedom of Movement, Fly or Haste. Spells cast in this way do not require concentration or components and can only affect and benefit you. You can dismiss these spells and their effects at any time.

    18th level, Transcendent Movement: Unarmoured Movement grants the following additional benefits:
    • Difficult terrain doesn't impede your movement.
    • A fly speed equal to your walking speed.
    • Advantage on Dexterity saving throws.
    • You can spend 1 Ki as an Action or Bonus Action to teleport twice your base walking speed to an unoccupied destination you can see.




    Way of the Kensai:

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    3rd level, Kensai Initiate: Choose one melee weapon type (longsword, greatsword, etc). That weapon type and your unarmed strike are your Kensai Weapons. When you level up, you may substitute the chosen weapon type for another. You gain the following benefits:
    • You have proficiency with your Kensai Weapons and they count as a Monk Weapon.
    • You can use a Kensai Weapon in place of unarmed strikes for extra attacks made by Flurry of Blows and Martial Arts. Your Kensai Weapons benefit from the Ki-Empowered Strikes feature.
    • You gain a Fighting Style per the Fighter feature; the benefits of this Fighting Style apply only to your Kensai Weapons.
    • You learn three maneuvers of your choice from among those available to the Battle Master archetype in the fighter class and are able to expend your Ki as superiority dice. These dice are rolled as the greatest of 1d6, your Martial Arts dice, or your existing superiority dice size. Your maneuver DC is equal to the greater of your Ki DC or 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Strength or Dexterity bonus (your choice).
    • Whenever you gain another feature from this class path, you learn another maneuver from this feature. Whenever you gain a level, you may trade a maneuver learned by this feature for another.


    You can only benefit from and use this monastic tradition's features while both wielding a Kensai Weapon and benefiting from your Unarmoured Movement feature.

    6th level, Kensai Disciple: You gain the following benefits:
    • Your Deflect Missiles feature becomes Deflect Attacks and can be used against melee attacks in addition to ranged weapon attacks. When you reduce a melee attackís damage to 0 in this way, you can expend 1 Ki to move 5 feet and make a melee attack against the attacker with a Kensai Weapon.
    • You can expend 1 superiority dice when using Deflect Attacks to increase its damage reduction by your superiority dice roll plus your Wisdom modifier and Proficiency bonus. You may also use Deflect Attacks against melee and ranged weapon attacks that target a creature or object within the reach of a Kensai Weapon you are wielding.
    • You can deflect ammo using your Kensai Weapon, allowing you to make an attack with a piece of ammo using Deflect Attacks whose damage you've reduced to 0 using this feature without catching it.


    11th level, Kensai Expert: You gain the following benefits:
    • You cannot be unwillingly disarmed of Kensai Weapons you are wielding.
    • You gain the ability to infuse your weapon and senses with mythic power that momentarily gifts you with exacting prescience and the ability to cleave through even the hardest substances. Whenever you make a weapon attack with a Kensai Weapon you can expend 2 superiority dice, If you do, that attack has advantage, critically hits, deals maximum damage and ignores resistance and immunity. This damage is quadrupled versus objects and structures.
    • Whenever you expend your Reaction to use Deflect Attacks while wielding a Kensai Weapon, to make an opportunity attack with a Kensai Weapon, or you expend your Bonus Action to make one or more extra attacks with a Kensai Weapon using Martial Arts or Flurry of Blows, you can expend 1 superiority dice to regain the Reaction or Bonus Action expended in these ways.


    18th level, Kensai Master: You gain the following benefits:
    • At the start of each of your turns you can use a maneuver, feature or benefit from Deflect Attacks or this monastic tradition as if you'd spent 1 Ki to do so until the start of your next turn or you use this feature.
    • While you're not incapacitated you cannot be surprised, creatures don't have advantage on attack rolls against you from being hidden or unseen, you gain a +2 bonus to AC and whenever you roll initiative you can spend 2 Ki to make that roll an automatic 20.



    Way of the Grasping Claw (WIP):

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    3rd level, Claw Initiate: When you hit a creature with an unarmed strike or a Monk weapon and have a free hand, you can also attempt to grapple it. You may use Dexterity (Acrobatics) or Strength (Athletics) when making grapple checks (your choice). You can spend 1 Ki to gain Advantage on a grapple check and grapple a creature of up to one size larger than you normally can.

    While you're grappling a creature, you can make a grapple check to pin it as an Action, or when you hit it with an unarmed strike. If you succeed, you and that creature fall prone. The properties of the pin are as follows:
    • The target is restrained, and can't stand from prone until you are no longer both prone and grappling it.
    • A pinned creature trying to cast a spell with a somatic component must make a Dexterity save against your Ki DC to perform the necessary motions or the casting attempt fails (the spell isn't wasted though).
    • You don't have disadvantage from the prone condition on melee attacks made against a creature you're pinning while you're grappling it in this way.
    • If you commit a free hand you may also silence the target (if physically possible), preventing it from speaking or using spells with a verbal component.
    • To maintain this pin, you must expend a Bonus Action or Action at the start of each of your turns to do so, otherwise it becomes a pin as described by the Grappler feat.




    6th level, Claw Disciple: You gain the following benefits:
    • You can attempt to grapple and pin a creature up to two size categories larger than you, incorporeal creatures, and creatures immune to being grappled and restrained.
    • If you, or the creature you're grappling are moved, you may move with it, or have it move with you.
    • You can make an opportunity attack against a creature whose attempt to escape your grapple fails.
    • While you're grappling a creature, you can make a grapple check against it as an Action or Bonus Action. If you succeed, that creature is no longer grappled by you, and you push it 5 feet away from you in any direction (including vertically) for every 2 points you beat its check by, plus or minus 5 feet for each size category it's smaller or larger than you respectively. It then takes 1d6 bludgeoning damage and falls prone. If that creature collides with an obstacle before it finishes being pushed in this way, it and that obstacle each take an extra 1d6 bludgeoning damage for every 5 feet that creature had left to be pushed. If applicable, that obstacle makes a Strength check against your Ki DC or falls prone. You can spend 1 Ki to double the distance you push a grappled creature in this way.



    11th level, Claw Expert: You gain the following benefits:
    • You can attempt to grapple and pin a creature up to three size categories larger than you.
    • While you're grappling (but not pinning per the Claw Initiate feature) a creature of your size or one size category smaller, that creature grants you half cover versus creatures other than it. If that creature is one or more size categories larger than you, it grants you three-quarters cover instead.
    • If a creature would escape your grapple by teleporting, or using the effects of the Freedom of Movement spell or effect, you may spend 1 Ki. If you do, that creature must succeed on a Charisma save made against your Ki DC; on a failure, until the end of your next turn, it cannot teleport and its Freedom of Movement has no effect against non-magical restraints.
    • While a creature is pinned via your Claw Initiate feature, you can make a grapple check as an Action to choke it if you commit a free hand to doing so (if physically possible). If you succeed, it runs out of breath (if it needs to breathe and you're physically able to choke it) and is suffocating until your grapple is broken. A suffocating creature cannot speak or use spells with a verbal component.



    18th level, Claw Master: You gain the following benefits:
    • You can attempt to grapple a creature any number of size categories larger than you.
    • You can spend 2 Ki to roll a 20 on any grapple check.
    • You do not need to expend a Bonus Action or Action to maintain your Claw Initiate pin.
    • Melee weapon attacks made with your unarmed strike and Monk Weapons against a creature you're pinning via the Claw Initiate feature are automatic criticals on a hit.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Thumbs up Re: [5e D&D] Alternate Monastic Traditions

    They seem pretty ok. I don't like the concept of rushing wind, but can't say it's bad.

    Unfortunatly I think it's too early in the game for me to get that natural grasp on balance, so I can't comment in that. Well, since martial arts and flurry of blows only allow unnarmed attacks I would change Improved Dodge and Superior Deflection to also allow only unnarmed strikes, but I guess this is only a style issue, not a balance one.
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  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: [5e D&D] Alternate Monastic Traditions

    I allowed Monk Weapons to be used in addition to unarmed strikes on the 'riposte' type actions because I am definitely concerned about Monks falling behind the curve when magic weapons are introduced.

    As for Rushing Wind, what do you dislike about it specifically?

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: [5e D&D] Alternate Monastic Traditions

    Added the Way of the Kensai.

    Need to replace the Dodging Crane's 6th level feature with something as I poached it for the Kensai's as I felt it was a better fit with the latter monastic tradition.

  5. - Top - End - #5
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    Default Re: [5e D&D] Alternate Monastic Traditions

    Hmm, these are quite interesting, specially the Kensai, since I've always been a fan of monks with weapons (I know, I'm weird).

    How about a tradition focusing on grappling? Something like Tiger's Paw...
    I know the core rules anlready have grappling, but something involving extra abilities while pinning an enemy (locking or breaking limbs/joints, suffocation, use them as a shield, etc...) could be pretty cool.

    Keep up with the good work!

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  6. - Top - End - #6
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: [5e D&D] Alternate Monastic Traditions

    Quote Originally Posted by Dyhmas View Post
    Hmm, these are quite interesting, specially the Kensai, since I've always been a fan of monks with weapons (I know, I'm weird).
    I totally feel you on that; my intent here was to allow you to play something like Raiden from Metal Gear Rising.


    How about a tradition focusing on grappling? Something like Tiger's Paw...
    I know the core rules anlready have grappling, but something involving extra abilities while pinning an enemy (locking or breaking limbs/joints, suffocation, use them as a shield, etc...) could be pretty cool.
    Awesome idea, I'll do it.

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  8. - Top - End - #8
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: [5e D&D] Surrealistik's Monk Homebrew

    pretty sneaky that you pretty much rolled swiftblade into that monk feature path lol. I like it though.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: [5e D&D] Surrealistik's Monk Homebrew

    Swiftblade? What's that, some kind of Pathfinder/3.5 class?

    Keep in mind I only really have substantial experience with 4e aside from 5e.

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    Default Re: [5e D&D] Surrealistik's Monk Homebrew

    Rushing Wind is definitely my favorite here. But i have always been drawn to in-combat teleportation.

    The idea of teleporting 100ft to beat the crap out of some guy and stun him is extremely appealing.
    Last edited by Bellberith; 2014-08-30 at 05:36 PM.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Imp

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    Default Re: [5e D&D] Surrealistik's Monk Homebrew

    Well, I am not really familiar with monks from any edition so judging the efficacy of the 5e monk and its options is difficult for me. (I usually play casters of some variety)

    I do like the kensei, grasping claw, and rushing wind ones. I like the concept of the mageslayer, but the Ki Aegis ability looks horribly overpowered. Unless I am reading it wrong, you are effectively rendering half of the classes in the PHB inept with a single 11th level class feature (bard, sorcerer, cleric, wizard, warlock, and to a lesser degree druid). And that is assuming you don't expect it to interfere with the paladin's smite spells or the ranger's conjure barrage/volley and swift quiver spells. If you do expect it to protect against those, add them to the list as half-inept. If you want the ability to completely laugh at magic like that it should have an appropriate cost, either limited uses/rest, ki points spent, something...

    Swiftblade was a prestige class in 3.5 that specialized in using the haste spell to abuse the game perform its abilities. It was published online by WotC.

    They all look interesting, thanks for creating them.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: [5e D&D] Surrealistik's Monk Homebrew

    Keep in mind that these traditions are essentially balanced with PvE in mind; Ki Aegis though a powerful feature for sure is situational in a PvE context; in many cases it won't even apply at all. That said, I wouldn't be opposed to giving it a Ki cost of some kind.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: [5e D&D] Surrealistik's Monk Homebrew

    the rushing wind class is very similar to swiftblade from 3.5/pathfinder. The blinding speed is very similar to a move they get called extreme speed where you teleport (x) distance in a straight line and get to make attack rolls on anything you pass on the way. they get access to crazy buffs to haste though but the feel of your custom build is very similar overall, which is awesome because swiftblade is one of my favorite play styles.

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    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: [5e D&D] Surrealistik's Monk Homebrew

    Oh cool.

    Yeah in this case, I had Flash + Goku in mind more than anything else for Rushing Wind; a combatant that's so fast as to be able to beat the **** out of everything he can see with time to spare.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: [5e D&D] Surrealistik's Monk Homebrew

    I don't have time to review all of what you have here, but I did review your more general fixing thread.

    This bit is copied directly from my review of the other thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Surrealistik View Post
    Perfect Self fix:
    At the start of each of your turns, if you have less than 8 Ki, you regain 1 Ki.
    Perfect self really does need a boost, though this might not be right (I thought it was good at first, but as I wrote the next part, I changed my mind). I must ask, though, why 8?

    To play the devil's advocate, though, I think I understand why this is not already the rule. I recall perfect self acting like this in the last play test, and they must have had a reason to change it. Regenerating Ki points essentially allows constant use of the core monk Ki abilities, and with time, the infinite use of all Ki abilities. This is much the same as allowing a Wizard to regain spell slots each turn when he is almost out of magic for the day, or letting a Sorcerer gain his points back each turn. The fix I might use would be something along the line of "if you have less than X Ki points when you roll initiative, your Ki points are set to X." X could be 4, or 8, but I would probably set it at 6.



    Here's my review of Mageslayer:

    3rd level, Mageslayer Initiate: You gain the Mage Slayer perk.
    I assume you mean the Mage Slayer feat?

    You are always under the effects of Detect Magic until you dismiss it. You can regain its effects at any time while you're not incapacitated. While you have 11 or more Monk levels you can spend 6 Ki points to cast True Seeing on yourself as an Action. Neither of these spells require concentration or components when cast in this way.
    At will detect magic isn't half bad, but having it always on is a bit odd for this edition. I would recommend changing it to "you may cast detect magic at will as an action." Also, you should not remove concentration from these spells. Concentration is a major limiting factor on spells, and is a large force in maintaining game balance. Removing concentration from these spells serves only to allow them to stack with other effects, which is explicitly what concentration exists to prevent. (And why not simply add True Seeing to the 11th-level benefits?)

    I feel that granting Mage Slayer (itself three separate benefits) along with an at-will spell is a bit much for one level. It also seems strange to grant a free feat in this edition. Feats are already balanced (hopefully) to be taken instead of an ability score improvement. If you don't grant mageslayer monks this feat for free, they are guaranteed to take it on their own, so why add it as a potentially unbalanced class feature?

    6th level, Deflect Magic: Your Deflect Missiles class feature can be used against spells and magical effects with an attack roll and/or saving throw that do not affect an area and target you or a creature or object within the reach of your unarmed strike or a Monk Weapon you are wielding. When you use your Deflect Missile feature in this way, make an attack roll. If this attack roll equals or exceeds the lower of that spell or magical effectís attack roll or DC, it has no effect on the target protected in this way. You can then spend Ki equal to that spellís level to copy it (or Ki equal to the greater of 1 or half the originís HD if it is a non-spell magical effect). This copied spell or magical effect now originates from a square occupied by the target protected in this way thatís within reach of your unarmed strike or a Monk weapon you are wielding (the spell or magical effect is otherwise identical), you make all choices for this copied spell or magical effect, and if it would have more than one target, it has only one target instead.
    It doesn't really make sense to be able to defend others against magic, especially when it is presented as a modification to an ability that only allows you to protect yourself. Why not make it identical to deflect arrows, but for magic? When you are hit by a non-AoE attack roll spell, you can deflect it in the same way you could deflect arrows (probably at the cost of 1 Ki point). If you successfully reduce the damage to 0, the spell is redirected to the target of your choice, using a new attack roll equal to your proficiency bonus+your dexterity modifier (the redirection should cost another Ki point).

    11th level, Ki Aegis: You have resistance to damage from spells and magical effects, and advantage on all saves and checks made against spells and magical effects. Spells and magical effects have disadvantage on their attack rolls against you. Attack rolls and damage from magical weapons, or weapons otherwise enhanced by magic are not subject to this feature.
    This screams "overpowered" to me all over the place. Sure, most monsters do not use magic, but not all opponents are monsters. The Big Bad is frequently some sort of mage, be it a necromancer, an high cultist, or a demon lord. This provides an extraordinary defense against some of the most dangerous abilities in the game, which is something no character should have, especially at level 11. Consider that clerics of war get resistance to weapons as their capstone ability. At best, this should be a Ki ability (with a cost of at least 2) that grants you advantage on saves against magic, and resistance to damage from magic (but not also disadvantage to magical attackers) for a limited amount of time (by which I mean one round), and is activated as a bonus action or a reaction.

    18th level, Aura of Negation: As an Action or Bonus Action, you can spend 8 Ki points to cast Antimagic Field without components. This form of Antimagic Field does not require concentration and you can dismiss it and its effects at any time.
    What I said about concentration still applies here, though you'll have little luck using anything else magical in it anyway. Also, this shouldn't be usable as a bonus action, for the same reason most spells are not cartable as bonus actions. If a spell is made to be cast as an action, it is balanced for that time, and that on a caster who would do little else with his action even if he could cast it as a bonus action. On a character who will use their action to attack the now-disabled caster, bonus action spells are incredibly dangerous.
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    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: [5e D&D] Surrealistik's Monk Homebrew

    Quote Originally Posted by Zweisteine View Post
    Perfect self really does need a boost, though this might not be right (I thought it was good at first, but as I wrote the next part, I changed my mind). I must ask, though, why 8?

    To play the devil's advocate, though, I think I understand why this is not already the rule. I recall perfect self acting like this in the last play test, and they must have had a reason to change it. Regenerating Ki points essentially allows constant use of the core monk Ki abilities, and with time, the infinite use of all Ki abilities. This is much the same as allowing a Wizard to regain spell slots each turn when he is almost out of magic for the day, or letting a Sorcerer gain his points back each turn. The fix I might use would be something along the line of "if you have less than X Ki points when you roll initiative, your Ki points are set to X." X could be 4, or 8, but I would probably set it at 6.
    8 because it allows you to use any of your Ki abilities at least once.

    Further the way Perfect Self used to work is that it allowed you to regenerate 1 Ki as an action; the main problem with this is two-fold: it wasn't very useful in combat itself, and it allowed you to enter every fight with full Ki points without any resting. My proposal addresses both issues.

    As far as your proposal goes, I don't like it primarily because it's situational (only ever comes into play when you don't get a short rest; you might argue this is true of mine but it actively regenerates your Ki in combat when you get low, so it virtually always has some benefit to offer).

    I assume you mean the Mage Slayer feat?

    At will detect magic isn't half bad, but having it always on is a bit odd for this edition. I would recommend changing it to "you may cast detect magic at will as an action." Also, you should not remove concentration from these spells. Concentration is a major limiting factor on spells, and is a large force in maintaining game balance. Removing concentration from these spells serves only to allow them to stack with other effects, which is explicitly what concentration exists to prevent. (And why not simply add True Seeing to the 11th-level benefits?)

    I feel that granting Mage Slayer (itself three separate benefits) along with an at-will spell is a bit much for one level. It also seems strange to grant a free feat in this edition. Feats are already balanced (hopefully) to be taken instead of an ability score improvement. If you don't grant mageslayer monks this feat for free, they are guaranteed to take it on their own, so why add it as a potentially unbalanced class feature?
    I'd say it's about comparable to the Open Hand and Shadow Monk benefits, particularly given how situational these benefits are.

    I previously had Detect Magic as at-will, but decided to go with the Devotion Paladin Purity of Spirit style wording, with the effect always being active.

    I disagree that removing the concentration element from Detect Magic and True Seeing will in any way be game breaking or overpowered (particularly given the Monk level investment required to use the latter without concentration).

    It doesn't really make sense to be able to defend others against magic, especially when it is presented as a modification to an ability that only allows you to protect yourself. Why not make it identical to deflect arrows, but for magic? When you are hit by a non-AoE attack roll spell, you can deflect it in the same way you could deflect arrows (probably at the cost of 1 Ki point). If you successfully reduce the damage to 0, the spell is redirected to the target of your choice, using a new attack roll equal to your proficiency bonus+your dexterity modifier (the redirection should cost another Ki point).
    I could remove the protecting others component, but obviously spell damage is high to the point where you'd never in practice be able to negate most spells to 0 in order to subsequently deflect them, so I need to keep the negation at an opposed check against the spell attack roll or DC.

    That said, the prof + dex attack roll substitution I'll add in the event the deflected spell had an attack roll.

    This screams "overpowered" to me all over the place. Sure, most monsters do not use magic, but not all opponents are monsters. The Big Bad is frequently some sort of mage, be it a necromancer, an high cultist, or a demon lord. This provides an extraordinary defense against some of the most dangerous abilities in the game, which is something no character should have, especially at level 11. Consider that clerics of war get resistance to weapons as their capstone ability. At best, this should be a Ki ability (with a cost of at least 2) that grants you advantage on saves against magic, and resistance to damage from magic (but not also disadvantage to magical attackers) for a limited amount of time (by which I mean one round), and is activated as a bonus action or a reaction.
    There are definitely examples of some uber deadly monsters that don't really use offensive magic at all; the Tarrasque and Hecatoncheires for example.

    That said, I acknowledge that despite the situational nature of the buff, it is extremely powerful. However, keep in mind that a significantly more powerful class, the Wizard, effectively gets this at L14 as an Abjuration specialist though it's vs spells only.

    The way I'll likely proceed is by having the Monk gain Magic Resistance per the mob trait that can be enhanced to a more powerful form via Ki which works as it does now.

    What I said about concentration still applies here, though you'll have little luck using anything else magical in it anyway. Also, this shouldn't be usable as a bonus action, for the same reason most spells are not cartable as bonus actions. If a spell is made to be cast as an action, it is balanced for that time, and that on a caster who would do little else with his action even if he could cast it as a bonus action. On a character who will use their action to attack the now-disabled caster, bonus action spells are incredibly dangerous.
    I wouldn't mind making it an Action, though I will not give it a concentration component since it's not really possible to combo it in gamebreaking ways with other spells/concentration effects as an L18 monk anyways.


    That all said I very much appreciate the feedback and earnest critique.

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    Default Re: [5e D&D] Surrealistik's Monk Homebrew

    Quote Originally Posted by Surrealistik View Post
    8 because it allows you to use any of your Ki abilities at least once.

    Further the way Perfect Self used to work is that it allowed you to regenerate 1 Ki as an action; the main problem with this is two-fold: it wasn't very useful in combat itself, and it allowed you to enter every fight with full Ki points without any resting. My proposal addresses both issues.

    As far as your proposal goes, I don't like it primarily because it's situational (only ever comes into play when you don't get a short rest; you might argue this is true of mine but it actively regenerates your Ki in combat when you get low, so it virtually always has some benefit to offer).
    I agree that the playtest version of perfect body was too strong, but yours, while it does allow use of any Ki ability, the main issue with regeneration is that it lets you use Flurry of Blows, for example, every turn, if you so choose. Perhaps it would be more balanced if it allowed you to take a full minute to meditate, which would return you to 8 ki. That gives you 8 Ki each fight, and doesn't give infinite Ki in a fight.

    Actually, thinking about it, Perfect Body is comparable to the warlock's capstone, Eldritch Master. Letting a monk gain up to 8 Ki points at the beginning of a battle is similar to having a warlock regain slots so he has at least one for each battle. Depending on the adventure and your DM, you'll have more or fewer encounters between opportunities for short rests. Both warlocks and monks benefit from more rests, but each gains a capstone that allows them to circumvent that requirement to varying degrees. Perfect Body as it is basically gives you a reserve of Ki for those cases when you have too many encounters. Eldritch Master gives you a chance to have your spells ready for an important battle. Your version of Perfect Body acts less as an emergency reserve of Ki, and more of a way to encourage use of Ki by guaranteeing that you'll always have a good amount. Perhaps a better way for Perfect Body to work would be identically to Eldritch Master, allowing a full minute of meditation to restore all of your Ki. This would keep Ki as a resource to be conserved whenever possible, but without dooming a monk to fight a boss while running on empty.


    I'd say it's about comparable to the Open Hand and Shadow Monk benefits, particularly given how situational these benefits are.

    I previously had Detect Magic as at-will, but decided to go with the Devotion Paladin Purity of Spirit style wording, with the effect always being active.

    I disagree that removing the concentration element from Detect Magic and True Seeing will in any way be game breaking or overpowered (particularly given the Monk level investment required to use the latter without concentration).
    But the differences between Purity of Spirit and this ability is that protection from good/evil is a purely passive effect, where detect magic is more active. Consider the only other place where it appears as a class feature, a warlock invocation. It is an at-will ability, and it seems perfectly balanced. A detection ability is better balanced if it is active, because you don't get free detection whenever you are walking around. It encourages more thinking on the side of the players,* and protects the DM from having to say "you sense magic" whenever something magical is nearby.
    Actually, a better idea might be to make it both. Make it an active ability, but you have to use an action to suppress/resume it. This makes it an inconvenience for it to be forcibly deactivated (maybe even say that if something external turns it off, you have to wait a bit to turn it back on), which helps the balance a bit. This also makes more sense alongside the lack of concentration requirement.

    I concede that concentration isn't game-breaking with these spells. However, with your version of Perfect Body, you effectively have true seeing at will, which is overpowered. I would recommend either increasing the Ki cost of the spell, or giving it a further limit (1 to 3) per long rests, or simply giving it a limit of 1 or 2 uses per long rest, and no Ki cost.

    I could remove the protecting others component, but obviously spell damage is high to the point where you'd never in practice be able to negate most spells to 0 in order to subsequently deflect them, so I need to keep the negation at an opposed check against the spell attack roll or DC.

    That said, the prof + dex attack roll substitution I'll add in the event the deflected spell had an attack roll.
    I had considered the higher spell damage as a problem, but that is easily solved by changing the amount the damage is reduced by. This would take a lot of effort to balance, but I might start with the base, and increase the die size to a d20 or 2d10 at a higher level (and reduce by wis mod instead of dex mod). Your method is easier, though. The problem with it is that it gives a far better chance of reflection than Deflect Missiles. As is, this feature either fully deflects the spell, or it doesn't block it at all. This is what makes Deflect Missiles special; it makes the attack weaker, and if you're lucky, it turns it into an attack of your own. Deflecting Magic seems like it should work the same way. It's meant to provide some protection from attacks, with a small chance of making a counterattack. "Deflect magic" should be a defensive ability that only occasionally sends the spell back at the caster, not a reliable source of attacks.

    Also, I didn't mention it earlier, but some as it is, this has some other issues. Namely, it works on any spell, even, say, charm person. I would suggest limiting it to attacks that target you with a ranged attack roll. That gives it the same level of balance as Deflect Missiles, and prevents oddities like blocking non-physical spells.


    That said, I acknowledge that despite the situational nature of the buff, it is extremely powerful. However, keep in mind that a significantly more powerful class, the Wizard, effectively gets this at L14 as an Abjuration specialist though it's vs spells only.
    Ah, forgot about that Wizard thing. It was still a bit OP earlier, giving so many defenses against all magical effects. Now it gives a balanced boost, and has a Ki ability that supplements "deflect magic."


    I wouldn't mind making it an Action, though I will not give it a concentration component since it's not really possible to combo it in gamebreaking ways with other spells/concentration effects as an L18 monk anyways.
    The action was the big thing. It could be abused by maintaining concentration on another spell below the AMF, but that's not an issue for a level 18 monk, as you said.
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    Default Re: [5e D&D] Surrealistik's Monk Homebrew

    I don't really like using the Warlock capstone as a baseline or model; it is actually mediocre as capstones go, and is basically the equivalent of a short rest condensed into a 1 minute but for your spells only.

    My proposal is on par with some of the better capstones like the Cleric and Wizard. I don't find it overpowered at all for a straight 20 Monk to be able to throw out 1 Ki worth of special abilities each turn.

    Granted, there's a point to be made given the potentially problematic interaction between say True Seeing and unlimited (albeit capped) Ki regeneration.

    I think the best way to handle this is to deduct the Ki cost of a buff from the max Ki regeneration cap. For example, if you had True Seeing active, you'd regen 1 Ki each turn up to a maximum of 2 (8 - 6).


    Concerning Detect Magic, I don't see it being much more problematic for the DM to administer if active in perpetuity than special forms of vision (and 'turning it on' at-will as an action works out to the same thing; players will always have it active).


    Concerning Deflect Magic, I'd rather not limit it to working vs only stuff that could be physically deflected; I also see it as having a mental/spiritual component as well that enables it to work vs even say Charm Person or Dominate Monster.

    I think the way I'll handle this is an opposed attack roll vs spell attack rolls, and a saving throw with proficiency vs spells with saving throws.

    If the spell attack roll or DC is met or exceeded, then the Monk gets the option of spending Ki equal to its spell level to deflect.

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    Default Re: [5e D&D] Surrealistik's Monk Homebrew

    I'll say more about the monk subclasses when I have time, but I'm starting to think you might be right about Perfect Body, at least a bit.
    Actually, the more I think about it, the more I like the version of Perfect Body in the book. Except for the spell-like abilities of on subclass, every Ki ability looks to cost only 1 Ki, so 4 Ki isn't that bad as a free bonus in a bad situation.

    And the warlock cap... I thought looked bad at first, but I thought about it and decided that it could be useful, though now that I've looked at the other capstones it's starting to look a bit lackluster again...
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    Default Re: [5e D&D] Surrealistik's Monk Homebrew

    Ok, finally got around to reading the Way of the Grasping Claw and WOW, is it strong. It really makes me feel like an enemy is doomed if he's grappled by a monk with those abilities...wich is pretty much bound to happen, since he can even get advantage, when needed.

    Having said that, it may actually be too strong. It might be just me, but, with those abilities, grapple becomes an answer to every single kind of foe. Caster? Grapple him so he can't use spells. Barbarian with a huge axe? Grapple him and restrain him, so he can't use his axe. Flying creature? Jump and grapple it! (extra falling damage, ahoy!).

    I'm not sure how someone would counter these abilities. In fact, the only way to avoid being grappled by that monk is never (ever) getting close to him...but then again, that's true for any melee oriented class.

    Bottom line is: I love it to bits, but those bits may be a tad too strong. Trough grappling, he can tank, DPS, debuff and outright kill (choking is basically a SoD, right?). It could use some playtesting, I guess, since, even if it's being used in a PvE scenario, it could still cause envy on the Ranger (among others) and his puny fighting skills...

    Keep up with the good work!

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    Default Re: [5e D&D] Surrealistik's Monk Homebrew

    For sure Dyhmas, just kind of throwing everything out there for now, then seeing what sticks and what can be cut.

    I think the biggest problem is finding permitting a way to escape the grapples without making it too easy to do so.

    Will definitely cut the advantage on grapple checks, disadvantage on escapes, since the possibility your grapple checks fail are intended to be a core balance element.

    Might have maintaining the pin require a bonus action each turn.

    I think I will change the prohibition on somatic casting to a Concentration check vs your Ki DC or something along those lines.

    The prohibition on verbal checks should still probably be automatic, but keep in mind that when it's in place, you don't have a hand free to attack.


    EDIT: Made a bunch of changes to the Grasping Claw.

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    Default Re: [5e D&D] Surrealistik's Monk Homebrew

    Would really like to get some balance related feedback on the Kensai; this one I'm currently most focused on getting into a balanced state.

    That said, please don't use Tranquility and Wholeness of Body as they currently stand as a baseline for comparison for same level tradition abilities; these are horribly underpowered features and I'll probably author fixes for them.

    Shadow Monk and Elementalist features are more appropriate.

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    Default Re: [5e D&D] Surrealistik's Monk Homebrew

    Speaking of the Kensai, after some more reading, I'm starting to think that giving them Superiority Dice, on top of Ki, may be too much micromanaging. Perhaps allowing the Monk to convert Ki in supriority dice would be more appropriate, instead of adding a new resource pool.

    Now, that could be bad cause the monk has way more Ki than a fighter could ever have dice, however, if we cap the monk "ki dice" (working title...) at d6 (or even a d4) it could maintain balance, since he won't be able to pull manuevers as effectively as the Fighter. Another point of balance could be to limit the number of manuevers acquired. Perhaps you should get one, instead of two, when you first acquire the Kensai abilities, plus another in each tier of the tradition.

    In the end, the Kensai would be like a sorcerer, if compared to the fighter, larger resource pool to spend on manuevers but less manuevers known, besides those manuevers being less effective than those of a specialist.

    Also, it's not like the Kensai would spend all of his Ki in those manuevers, since he needs it for a lot of other cool stuff, eh?

    Just a thought. The kensai would look sleeker that way, more straightforward, IMO.

    Brew on!

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    Default Re: [5e D&D] Surrealistik's Monk Homebrew

    Wait, isn't that exactly what the Kensai has in place now?

    It can convert Ki to superiority dice at any time it's not incapacitated.

    Though it's true the Battlemaster gets less dice, I don't see this as being particularly OP as the Kensai's dice are less potent (scaling with Martial Arts to a max of 1d10) and expending Ki of course comes at an opportunity cost to the Monk which relies on them to power so many of its abilities.

    The one thing I'm somewhat concerned about so far as superiority dice go, is the Kensai getting an additional dice whenever he gains a feature.

    However, I do like the idea of just spending Ki straight up in lieu of SD for the sake of simplicity, and having them add a rolled bonus like SD that scales with martial arts having a floor of 1d6.

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    Default Re: [5e D&D] Surrealistik's Monk Homebrew

    Updated the Kensai.

    Added Wholeness of Body and Tranquility fixes.

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    Default Re: [5e D&D] Surrealistik's Monk Homebrew

    Just saw the Famished Dark tradition and I'm glad to know you're still going strong with this project, however, I think you should spend some time writing the fluff for each tradition because, as is, I see no reason why Famished Dark is a monk tradition, instead of a warlock pact/thing. It really doens't fit the monk, as it is...that's why I think that some fluff may be able to make it's concept more clear.

    Now, onto some more PEACHING:

    -I liked your changes on the Kensai, however, I think his superiority dices should be capped at 1d6 (not up to his martial dices), otherwise, he seems to be stepping too much on the fighter's toes. Capping it at 1d6 will still allow the monk to gain some very good versatility with the manuevers nad having them on a reasonable power level. In fact, I doubt that capping his dice at 1d6 will lower his power in any noticeable way. Anyway, it's not like the monk doesn't already have great ways to spend his Ki points, anyway...
    -Regarding Deflect Attacks, does Deflect Missiles has a cap on uses per turn? (can't remember) If it doesn't, perhaps giving it one or perhaps demanding the use of 1 ki point to deflect a melee attack might be in order, otherwise, there's no point to having AC, since he can deflect everything with his weapon...
    -The last ability of the Kensai Disciple is crazy good, if he chooses a Reach weapon. Too good, in fact. Either up the cost to 2 Ki points, give it later on (since you're already getting a lot of stuff at that level) or turn it into a feat. It's like Whirlwind Attack, only without the stupid pre-requisites.
    -It might be just me, but giving him auto-crits may be too much...he still has to hit, for sure, but that isn't that much of an issue in 5e. Besides, you're already giving a lot of abilities that require Ki points...I think i'd rather prefer if his attacks could overcome resistances and such as a passive, really. That's pretty strong, in fact. Would make the Kensai specially usefull against Raging Barbarians, for example.
    -At Kensai Master level, I'd just give him 1 Ki point per turn, really...doesn't seem broken to me and it's pretty the same thing you wrote.

    Some of these concerns came from the fact that one of my players decided to play a Kensai monk using a longspear...wich is fine by me, since I always liked those kung-fu movies with the crazy spear stunts, but it also made me realize some problems with these abilities...we haven't started playing yet, so I may be just worrying too much, but still, thought I'd mention anyway...

    Regarding Grasping Claw:
    -While i also have no idea of how to make them grapple checks powerfull without being broken, perhaps you'd do well to take some inspiration from the Setting Sun discipline from Tome of Battle since, if I recall correctly, it had some tossing/grappling manuevers wich were pretty neat.


    Oh, btw, inspired by your project, I've been coming up with other animal totems for the Barbarian. Curently doing the finishing touches on the first two. Stay tuned for it, hoping to see your PEACHes there.

    Keep up the good work!

    -Dyhmas
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  27. - Top - End - #27
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    Default Re: [5e D&D] Surrealistik's Monk Homebrew

    Deflect Attacks = Deflect Arrows. It's limited by your Reactions, of which you get 1. At level 11, you can refresh your Reaction under certain conditions, but it costs you 1 Ki each time.


    RE: Martial Dice: I'm concerned about not having the martial dice scale. Remember, the baseline opportunity cost we have to measure martial maneuvers against is Stunning Strike, so if we commit to nerfing maneuver dice, the result might be marginalizing them. Martial Arts dice also scale significantly more slowly than the Battle Master's dice and cap at a lower level.


    RE Ki Disciple Whirlwind: I had thought about its interaction with reach weapons, and the way I see it is that while a reach weapon can hit everything within 10 feet, the number of situations where you'd want to do so over using the 1 Ki for Flurry of Blows or Stunning Strike will probably not be that great. Beyond that, it comes at the opportunity cost of your single target damage with say a Greatsword, especially when you can use your Kensai Weapon with FoB and Martial Arts extra attacks and derive more benefit from the Expert level Kensai Ki power. I wouldn't be averse to giving it a hard limit to targets within 5 feet, though this will make the 2d6 weapons unquestionably dominant.


    Also Ki Expert autocrits: I knew there'd be opposition to this because it's very impressive sounding, but look at it this way.

    For 2 Ki you get a Stunning Strike and the ability to dodge as a bonus action, or 2 Stunning Strikes. Investing 2 Ki here using a 2d6 weapon you deal +17 more damage between maximized damage and extra crit dice on one attack. If we adjust that for accuracy and crit chance, with say 70% to hit, 5% of that hit chance to critically hit, we get 18.85: [(24+5) Ki Crit - (6.5*2+5)*.65+(6.5*4+5)*.05 Reg Attack = 18.85]

    Honestly, I'd go so far as to say it's a little underwhelming vs the earlier mentioned opportunity cost, and relies on the ability to ignore resistance and immunity to carry it as a worthwhile investment (and almost no creatures have resistance/immunity to damage from magical weapons). I was seriously considering having it deal double damage vs everything, not just objects and structures, because 9.4 extra damage per Ki invested honestly isn't all that good vs Flurry of Blows or Stunning Strike, especially when you're wielding a 2d6 weapon.


    Lastly, if Kensai Master were to have unconditional 1 Ki/turn regeneration it would definitely be too strong when combined with my revised Perfect Self.


    EDIT: As for the Famished Dark, I'm not exactly sure where I want to go with that. As my second favourite class though, I certainly intend on putting together some custom pacts for the Warlock.

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    Default Re: [5e D&D] Surrealistik's Monk Homebrew

    Grasping Claw is right up my alley in terms of design--but I do see how it could be a concern as far as power goes.

    Some thoughts (which I will flesh out later)

    1) I would delve a little more into the size differentials. A grapsing claw can grapple a colossal sized monster--but should it be able to pin the monster?

    2) being able to knock foes prone with grapple/pin--again, size modifiers should be played into this. I will define this more when it isn't almost midnight where I live and I'm not filled with nyquil.

    3) as a way to diminish the power of this build--maybe invoke the exhaustion mechanic somewhere? Dunno if you've ever wrestled, but it's tough, and all my wrestler buddies (the ones who actually played the sport) will attest to it being a test of stamina. How to do this without feeling like it's punitive to the Monk is going to be a balancing act, but I will think on it for more suggestions

    I like the premise and I think these are all really interesting monk builds. Hope I can give you more detailed answers to help you refine the grasping claw

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    Default Re: [5e D&D] Surrealistik's Monk Homebrew

    These are pretty damn awesome :)

    I'm working on another Monastic Tradition and I'm glad it isn't too similar to yours haha.

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