Stupid FR Trivia Question - The Weave

[hamlet]

OK, this is just a dumb question, I suspect, but in FR as of, at least, 3.x, a thing called "The Weave" has been showing up. It is now the default in all D&D. I surmise that it originally appeared somewhere in the Forgotten Realms, but I know not when.

I've read my original two grey box sets, and I see no mention of it.

Where, originally, did the Weave start appearing in the setting?

This is really just a matter of my personal curiosity as, in terms of mechanics, it seems to have no effect and I can ignore it at whim if I so choose.

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

Pretty sure it goes all the way back to the genesis of FR products including 1st edition stuff from the '70s.

[illyahr]

Very oldschool FR days. The Weave is basically the leylines of magic that run through the world, as created by the goddess Mystral. All proper magic is a product of "re-weaving" some of the magic into spell effects.

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

So yeah. I think the Weave might actually go all the way back to the stories Ed Greenwood was writing when he was 8.

[hamlet]

OK, fine, BUT WHERE?

You can say that the Realms is old, I know that.

But on what page of the source material does it actually first appear?

That's what I'm looking for here. I've looked through the boxes I have and it simply isn't there as best I can tell (I may simply be missing it, I admit it).

I'm looking, literally, for a page reference if somebody can get it to me.

Honestly, the first time I remember hearing about it was in the 3.x days.

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

Alright... doing some sleuthing here. Mystra's first appearance comes without any mention of the Weave. That's in Dragon 54, Oct 1981. Greenwood wrote an article on the Forgotten Realms deities. The text in the 1987 Cycopedia of the Realms handbook for Mystra is just a copypasta of this article.

So the Weave isn't mentioned in the 1st edition sourcebook, or in any of Greenwood's articles for Dragon up through 1988. So maybe the answer is Shadowdale in the Avatar series, published in 1988. I don't have any of those; if someone who does could chime in that'd be wonderful.

[jedipotter]

Where, originally, did the Weave start appearing in the setting?

.

The first place it appears is the 1E novel Shadowdale. On page 328 you get ''the phantasmagoric wonderland of the weave of magic surrounding the world''. Note the small ''w'' and the fact that no one in the novel, especially Mystra, says ''The Weave''.

It's not in the 2E campaign setting, or Forgotten Realms Adventures.

The Weave does not come around until 2E's Faiths and Avatars. Mystra's entry on page 128 talks about it. ''She provides and tends the Weave, the conduit to enable mortal spellcasters and magical crafters to safely access the raw force that is magic.'' There are not rules, The Weave is just fluff.

Most 2E books after that sure spam The Weave a lot. Especially anything written by Ed Greenwood. But it is still all fluff.

3E is the first time it's made ''official'' in the magic section.

[Jeraa]

The Weave is mentioned in Mystrals entry in the 2nd edition book Netheril: Empire of Magic, published in 1996. So at the very least, it was a 2nd edition thing.

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

The first place it appears is the 1E novel Shadowdale. On page 328 you get ''the phantasmagoric wonderland of the weave of magic surrounding the world''. Note the small ''w'' and the fact that no one in the novel, especially Mystra, says ''The Weave''.

It's not in the 2E campaign setting, or Forgotten Realms Adventures.

The Weave does not come around until 2E's Faiths and Avatars. Mystra's entry on page 128 talks about it. ''She provides and tends the Weave, the conduit to enable mortal spellcasters and magical crafters to safely access the raw force that is magic.'' There are not rules, The Weave is just fluff.

Most 2E books after that sure spam The Weave a lot. Especially anything written by Ed Greenwood. But it is still all fluff.

3E is the first time it's made ''official'' in the magic section.

Thanks, jp. This is quite informative.

Query: isn't the 3E sourcebook the first one to actually have a magic section? Or am I wrong?

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

The Weave is mentioned in Mystrals entry in the 2nd edition book Netheril: Empire of Magic, published in 1996. So at the very least, it was a 2nd edition thing.

And Faiths and Avatars was also published in '96.

I don't suppose it's mentioned in any of the Harpers series, published between 1991 and 1996? With a capital W, I mean, because jp is definitely right that that's an important distinction. Or perhaps the Finder stuff?

[hamlet]

The first place it appears is the 1E novel Shadowdale. On page 328 you get ''the phantasmagoric wonderland of the weave of magic surrounding the world''. Note the small ''w'' and the fact that no one in the novel, especially Mystra, says ''The Weave''.

It's not in the 2E campaign setting, or Forgotten Realms Adventures.

The Weave does not come around until 2E's Faiths and Avatars. Mystra's entry on page 128 talks about it. ''She provides and tends the Weave, the conduit to enable mortal spellcasters and magical crafters to safely access the raw force that is magic.'' There are not rules, The Weave is just fluff.

Most 2E books after that sure spam The Weave a lot. Especially anything written by Ed Greenwood. But it is still all fluff.

3E is the first time it's made ''official'' in the magic section.

Thank you. That settles my curiosity on that. Seems like a turn of phrase that somebody picked up on and just fell in love with and Greenwood just shrugged and went with it since it meant more writing gigs.

[jedipotter]

I don't suppose it's mentioned in any of the Harpers series, published between 1991 and 1996? With a capital W, I mean, because jp is definitely right that that's an important distinction. Or perhaps the Finder stuff?

The Weave just about never gets mentioned in most books. The Harper books are more about ''normal adventures''. Most books don't have that much to do with ''magic'' like that.

Other then a book by Ed Greenwood, of course, that is over flowing with magic.

Until you get to the late 3E books and the 4E books, then you get Weave Traps, Weave Bubbles and on and on.

Thank you. That settles my curiosity on that. Seems like a turn of phrase that somebody picked up on and just fell in love with and Greenwood just shrugged and went with it since it meant more writing gigs.

Near as I can tell, Scott Ciencin the author of Shadowdale just added the 'weave' to his novel. It was picked up by James Lowder,in the novel Prince of Lies where ''Mystra forbids Cyric from drawing on the magical weave.'' Note it is still small 'w'. I'd guess Eric L.Bloyd picked up on the thread(oh, my gosh, maybe the worst pun ever) of the 'weave' and made it The Weave. And Ed Greenwood has run with it after that. I guess it might have been in some Greenwood notes from like '82, but it does not seem to be published anywhere. And Ed does not seem to have mentioned it in any 1E product, or any 2E product until after '96.

[hamlet]

Actually, I just looked through my second edition boxed set and.the word is not there. Must have been quite late second edition that it came in. Go figure.

Easily excised from my game if I choose to run the realms.

[jedipotter]

I found some obscure lore"

Ed Greenwood says: '' before Julia Martin added the name “Weave” to my GenCon explanations of ‘the great web of magic that’s everywhere in Toril, binds Toril together, and IS Toril,. Julia Martin co-wrote Faiths and Avatars.....

[LibraryOgre]

Also checked Forgotten Realms Adventures, and it didn't show there, either.

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

I found some obscure lore"

Ed Greenwood says: '' before Julia Martin added the name “Weave” to my GenCon explanations of ‘the great web of magic that’s everywhere in Toril, binds Toril together, and IS Toril,. Julia Martin co-wrote Faiths and Avatars.....

What's the source of that quote? I'd be interested in seeing it in full.

Thanks, by the way, for following the distinction between weave and Weave. That's a valuable one to notice.

[Tvtyrant]

Netheril: Empire of Magic has multiple references to "the weave of magic" and how Mystryl had to constantly rework it to keep it going. P. 19 has it simply called "the weave."

The old Al-Qadim books have a completely different take on magic, referencing the Shair sending its elemental to "find" spells.

[jedipotter]

What's the source of that quote? I'd be interested in seeing it in full.

Thanks, by the way, for following the distinction between weave and Weave. That's a valuable one to notice.

It's from Candelkeep, of course: http://www.candlekeep.com/library/ar..._020304-04.htm

[JetThomasBoat]

A bit more stupid FR trivia: in Forgotten Realms, in the year 1385 DR,

Spoiler: this happens

Show

the goddess of magic, Mystra, is assassinated and it unravels the weave

. That's how they explain how magic works so much differently in 4E.

Also, a bit more trivia: there's also a thing called the Shadow Weave that the evil goddess of secrets and darkness I think? created so evil people could have their own magical thing. I don't know when it came about, but I know it's mentioned in the 3.0 sourcebooks a lot and WAY more in the novels.

They say you have to have a non-good alignment to use it, I think. It might only work for evil. So I dunno, if you wanna use the shadow weave, kick some puppies or something, I dunno.

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

Pretty sure the Shadow Weave went away with 4E.

[JetThomasBoat]

Pretty sure the Shadow Weave went away with 4E.

Well, yeah, since the normal one unraveled, the Shadow Weave did, too.

Oh, crap, I forgot to say that part before. I goofed it up. Shar didn't actually like...create the Shadow Weave, it was more that she like discovered a different part of the Weave or found like something akin to the "shadow" of the Weave or its dark side or something? I dunno. But basically, the Shadow Weave is intrinsically a part of the Weave, so when it was destroyed, so was the Shadow Weave.

Which once again makes me wonder why they thought it was a good idea. Character wise, I mean since Shar

Spoiler: did this

Show

was the on, conspiring with Cyric, who killed Mystra. I mean it's not like her and her followers didn't use the Shadow Weave plenty and she should have remembered magic getting all screwy the other five times Mystra was killed