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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Requesting a homebrew class alternate; The Scientist (AKA, a wizard-variant)

    My request is to basically have a class that is the Wizard, but instead of using Magic, he/she uses SCIENCE and gadgets and such, but due to my inexperience with 3.5 and pathfinder, I doubt I could make it. What I do have in my head so far, is this;

    1: More item requirements for Spell Materials, and the need to prep it all ahead of time (This will take the Spell Prep)

    2: Use of either the Knowledge (Engineering) skill, the Profession (Engineer) skill, or a relevant Craft check, instead of Spellcraft.

    3: No Magic required or necessary to play the character. I would rather enjoy being able to play a character who is mostly magic-free, and can make things via non-magical means.

    4: Large amount of cash, to build what is necessary

    5: More skill points to invest in the amount of Craft skills necessary?

    6: Primarily because I can't imagine how you'd limit it, I think that you'd probably have to limit spells by time rather than numbers.


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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    WhiteWizardGirl

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    Default Re: Requesting a homebrew class alternate; The Scientist (AKA, a wizard-variant)

    So, basically, a Gramarist? Or were you thinking something more obviously gadgety?

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Milo v3's Avatar

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    Default Re: Requesting a homebrew class alternate; The Scientist (AKA, a wizard-variant)

    Yeah, the gramarie subsystem fits what your asking rather well aside from
    3: No Magic required or necessary to play the character. I would rather enjoy being able to play a character who is mostly magic-free, and can make things via non-magical means.
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  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Requesting a homebrew class alternate; The Scientist (AKA, a wizard-variant)

    Quote Originally Posted by Milo v3 View Post
    Yeah, the gramarie subsystem fits what your asking rather well aside from
    Yeah, I am IMMENSELY against having a character with Magic, hence the request for a magic-free wizard, but focused HEAVILY on gadgetry.


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  5. - Top - End - #5
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Just to Browse's Avatar

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    Default Re: Requesting a homebrew class alternate; The Scientist (AKA, a wizard-variant)

    Gramarie is pretty cool and allows for a lot (a lot) of crazy over-the-top combos if you manage your resources and build appropriately. It's an optimizer's paradise, with trap options and synergies galore. It also removes a lot of the "maaaagic" flavor text and replaces it with "sciiiiience" flavor text, which seems to be your main goal. I don't think it focuses on cash and crafting (because those systems are broken), but I really do recommend looking at it.

    On the off chance that you don't want to wade through almost 100k words and/or don't like the Gramarist for whatever reason (I support either choice) I am willing to write you a variant wizard class because I'm itching to get back into requested brews. But note a couple of things:
    • The gold economy in D&D is borked. Wealth is asymmetrical power, and even though it's easy to get infinite gold, you don't want that kind of stuff to regularly show up in your game because it breaks a campaign in half ("I purchase the entire city"). So the ability to craft stuff would more likely be something like reduced crafting costs or free temporary crafts.
    • Craft checks are likewise broken. It takes longer to craft a mundane item with a normal craft skill than it takes to make a magical version of that item using the magic item crafting rules. Focusing any sort of class features around the Craft skill as-is is not a good idea unless you want to make things over the course of 3 months.
    • It's important to note that as as SCIENCE wizard, you need throw around spells like time stop and wail of the banshee. There is no reasonable technology that exists from which to draw on those effects, so you're basically going to wave your hands in the air and say "magic SCIENCE!" whenever you cast activate your relevant spells gadgets. To actually get science-flavored abilities, you'd need to rewrite every spell the wizard has access to, and that's a little too much work for me to do.
    • On that note, reskinning is really easy. If you want to just talk to your DM, you could play an artificer that uses tech instead of magic, but just use the same rules as the artificer for crafting and using items. If you do this, it will save people the trouble of making and checking balance on your desired class. It's the option with the least work, and it's the one I support the most. But again, your call.
    Last edited by Just to Browse; 2014-08-25 at 06:49 PM.
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  6. - Top - End - #6
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Requesting a homebrew class alternate; The Scientist (AKA, a wizard-variant)

    Quote Originally Posted by Just to Browse View Post
    Gramarie is pretty cool and allows for a lot (a lot) of crazy over-the-top combos if you manage your resources and build appropriately. It's an optimizer's paradise, with trap options and synergies galore. It also removes a lot of the "maaaagic" flavor text and replaces it with "sciiiiience" flavor text, which seems to be your main goal. I don't think it focuses on cash and crafting (because those systems are broken), but I really do recommend looking at it.

    On the off chance that you don't want to wade through almost 100k words and/or don't like the Gramarist for whatever reason (I support either choice) I am willing to write you a variant wizard class because I'm itching to get back into requested brews. But note a couple of things:
    • The gold economy in D&D is borked. Wealth is asymmetrical power, and even though it's easy to get infinite gold, you don't want that kind of stuff to regularly show up in your game because it breaks a campaign in half ("I purchase the entire city"). So the ability to craft stuff would more likely be something like reduced crafting costs or free temporary crafts.
    • Craft checks are likewise broken. It takes longer to craft a mundane item with a normal craft skill than it takes to make a magical version of that item using the magic item crafting rules. Focusing any sort of class features around the Craft skill as-is is not a good idea unless you want to make things over the course of 3 months.
    • It's important to note that as as SCIENCE wizard, you need throw around spells like time stop and wail of the banshee. There is no reasonable technology that exists from which to draw on those effects, so you're basically going to wave your hands in the air and say "magic SCIENCE!" whenever you cast activate your relevant spells gadgets. To actually get science-flavored abilities, you'd need to rewrite every spell the wizard has access to, and that's a little too much work for me to do.
    • On that note, reskinning is really easy. If you want to just talk to your DM, you could play an artificer that uses tech instead of magic, but just use the same rules as the artificer for crafting and using items. If you do this, it will save people the trouble of making and checking balance on your desired class. It's the option with the least work, and it's the one I support the most. But again, your call.
    Yeah, I'm not that much of an optimizer. The closest I get is reading guides on how to build characters. As I posted above, I'm not all that experience with D&D.
    1: Ah, understandable then. How about a skill that cuts the cost on the spell-like devices into only a quarter of their time, but only with non-magical items.

    2: Ah, very, VERY understandable. Maybe make it so that it has a feat that reduces the craft checks of non-magical items down to minutes instead of months? So that, in the hour that a Wizard takes, you use the same amount of time to prepare your SCIENCE! devices?

    3: I'm thinking that maybe have the Scientist require a minimum of 20 intelligence, to explain just how it knows all this stuff? As for re-fluffing, maybe have it have some knowledge of Quantum Physics, but akin to Leonardo, have him simply not bother to hand the schematics out to others. As for Time Stop, quantum effects and making a temporary field of faster than light mumbo jumbo, while Banshee is akin to breaking a skull the same way one might break glass. Though, yeah, I suppose you could leave the re-interpretation of spells up to the player, rather than yourself.

    4: I might do that, but first I'll have to find a DM that would allow me to play a Artificer in Pathfinder, which, so far, I have not found. And a slightly-reskinned Wizard wouldn't be THAT hard, would it?


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  7. - Top - End - #7
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Milo v3's Avatar

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    Default Re: Requesting a homebrew class alternate; The Scientist (AKA, a wizard-variant)

    Yeah, I am IMMENSELY against having a character with Magic, hence the request for a magic-free wizard, but focused HEAVILY on gadgetry.
    Well.... Gramarie is rather gadgety... you just have to make the gadgets yourself... But either way:

    Take Eberron's Artificer then modify it to use the Technology Guide (PF) rules:
    Infusions: Change to extraordinary, make it so can no longer be dispelled, change the spellcraft check to Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering)
    Artificer Knowledge: Applies to technological items instead of magic items.
    Item Creation: Remove it, since it's effects will be covered by the Technological item crafting rules already.
    Bonus Feats: Convert the feats to the following: Scribe Scroll - Technologist, Brew Potion - Craft Pharmaceutical, Craft Wondrous Item - Craft Technological Item, Craft Arms and Armour - Craft Technological Arms and Armor, Craft Wand - Craft Cybernetics, bonus feat at fourth level - Wrest Charge. Removal all other bonus feats.
    Craft Construct: At 8th level, you gain the benefits of the craft construct feat, except that it follows the rules of crafting High-Tech Items and you don't need to know specific spells to create the construct. This requires a cybernetics lab.
    Internal Lab (Ex): At 12th level, you may select a type of Laboratory. Whenever in any sort of lab you meet the prerequisites of also being in your selected lab. At 16th level and every four levels thereafter, you may select an additional laboratory.
    Last edited by Milo v3; 2014-08-25 at 07:49 PM.
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