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2014-09-15, 07:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Junkyard Wars in the Playground VI: Wonderworker + Profession Skill - Factotum
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2014-09-15, 08:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2009
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Re: Junkyard Wars in the Playground VI: Wonderworker + Profession Skill - Factotum
Just waiting on responses from two more submitters to make sure I've got them all.
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2014-09-15, 09:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2009
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Re: Junkyard Wars in the Playground VI: Wonderworker + Profession Skill - Factotum
And the responses are in! Please refrain from posting until I've gotten all entries and judge's criteria posted.
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2014-09-15, 09:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2009
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2014-09-15, 09:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2009
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Re: Junkyard Wars in the Playground VI: Wonderworker + Profession Skill - Factotum
"When I say 'High Chantress,' y'all say 'Belina!' "
Originally Posted by High Chantress Belina
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2014-09-15, 09:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2009
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Re: Junkyard Wars in the Playground VI: Wonderworker + Profession Skill - Factotum
If the nut doesn't fall too far from the tree, where does the seed fall?
Originally Posted by Horatio Figbottom
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2014-09-15, 09:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2009
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Re: Junkyard Wars in the Playground VI: Wonderworker + Profession Skill - Factotum
He can be your bodyguard, but the big question is...can you call him Al?
Originally Posted by Bael-Ver
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2014-09-15, 09:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2009
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Re: Junkyard Wars in the Playground VI: Wonderworker + Profession Skill - Factotum
She smiles like a saint, but she curses like a sailor.
Originally Posted by Meranda Morwelschild
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2014-09-15, 09:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2009
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Re: Junkyard Wars in the Playground VI: Wonderworker + Profession Skill - Factotum
Anyone who thinks Archie is lucky hasn't been keeping up with the comics
.
Originally Posted by Archie Karas, the Lucky
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2014-09-15, 09:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2009
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Re: Junkyard Wars in the Playground VI: Wonderworker + Profession Skill - Factotum
That does it for our fine crop of contestants! And if our chefs are curious to know what they're in for, here are the criteria for the three judges that have provided them to me:
Originally Posted by Judge A
Originally Posted by Judge B
Originally Posted by Judge C
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2014-09-15, 09:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2013
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Re: Junkyard Wars in the Playground VI: Wonderworker + Profession Skill - Factotum
man I wish I'd gotten inspired sooner. I was looking at a Rogue 3/ Paladin 4/Shadowbane Stalker 8/ Shadowbane Inquisitor 2/ Wonderworker 3.
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2014-09-15, 09:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2013
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- Shield Lands (GMT -5)
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2014-09-15, 09:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2008
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- In an Octopus's Garden
Re: Junkyard Wars in the Playground VI: Wonderworker + Profession Skill - Factotum
Those are some interesting entries -- I like what I see. I don't envy the judges for having to decide between them.
My build if anyone is interested:
Spoiler: The World's Oldest Professional
Aerenal Elf Spellthief8/Ruathar3/Sandshaper1/WarWeaver5/Wonderworker3
She was, as indicated, a (sacred) Prostitute (of Lastai), who trades favors and instruction in the erotic arts for spells.
I discovered a neat interaction between Spellthief, War Weaver, and Sand Shaper.
War Weaver's Quiescent Weave allows you to cast a spell as soon as you steal it, but wait to release it up to 24 hours later. Sand Shaper adds lots of low level buff spells to your spells known, so that even if you steal a useless spell, it is easily converted into something for the weave. I was debating whether the War Weaver's ability to hold up to 5th level spells in her weave allowed Wonderworker to grant up to 5th level spell slots. I probably wouldn't have pushed that, as it felt shaky RAWwise.
Ironically, it was the discovery of that possible interaction with War Weaver and Wonderworker that caused me to include that class in the first place. But, then as the build shifted to be more about Spellthief/War Weaver, and less about sacred prostitution and Wonderworker, I lost motivation to continue for the contest. About the only thing left that really was part of the original stub was Nymph's Kiss and Touch of Golden Ice. Edit: And Ruathar's Capstone allowing her to be older than most elves, which is the mechanics behind the tag-line, "World's Oldest Professional".
Last edited by dextercorvia; 2014-09-15 at 09:55 PM.
Dex
SpoilerRegarding my Necrotic Apprentice trick:
Regarding my Non-Epic Hidecarved Dragon:
Check out the Versatile Domain Generalist.
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2014-09-15, 09:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2013
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2014-09-15, 10:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
Re: Junkyard Wars in the Playground VI: Wonderworker + Profession Skill - Factotum
Someday I'll actually enter one of these...
I had great plans for a Ranger 4/Barbarian 3/Divine Crusader 1/Sovereign Speaker 5/Verdant Lord 4/Wonderworker 3.
But as usual, I waited too long to actually do it.
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2014-09-15, 10:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2012
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- MN, USA
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Re: Junkyard Wars in the Playground VI: Wonderworker + Profession Skill - Factotum
When I first saw this contest, my immediate thoughts went in a certain direction. I worked at it, kept playing with it, and most if it written up. But I just couldn't get around the idea that I was just tacking Wonderworker on at the end for the sole reason that it was required for the contest. So I ditched the idea and ended up with the one I submitted.
And now I see that there's a build in the contest that is somewhat akin to what I had tried at first. (Not that they're exact duplicates, mind you.)
It'll be interesting to see how the judges compare that build to the one I did submit.
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2014-09-16, 12:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2014
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- California
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Re: Junkyard Wars in the Playground VI: Wonderworker + Profession Skill - Factotum
Nobody went for Merchant Prince? Oh man, now I wish I had built it instead of spending all weekend playing Rogue Legacy.
For those not familiar with Merchant Prince, it's a 5-level prestige class from a Forgotten Realms book that gives +2 per level to Profession checks made to earn a profit from a business (using the rules for running a business from Dungeon Master's Guide II). It has its own spellcasting progression with spells up to 3rd level, so it qualifies for Wonderworker but it doesn't lose any actual casting by taking it. Basically the perfect class for this competition.
I would say I'm surprised nobody used it, but in fairness, it is rather obscure.
My build probably would have been Rogue 5/Merchant Prince 5/Wonderworker 3/(something) with the ultimate goal of pumping Profession (Merchant) into the stratosphere to power up my business's monthly profit checks (which, incidentally, earn WAY more money than than the standard weekly Profession checks).Last edited by Troacctid; 2014-09-16 at 01:02 AM.
Rhymes with "Protracted."
Handbooks: The Warlockopedia | The Warmagepedia (WIP) | Tier List (2019 Update)
Spreadsheets: Spellcasting classes | Deities | Useful items
Homebrew: Gestalt Theurge | Fighter and Monk fixes | Warlock stuff
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2014-09-16, 12:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2012
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- Secret Lair on Sol c
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Re: Junkyard Wars in the Playground VI: Wonderworker + Profession Skill - Factotum
Was looking for some time to get some oomph out of Profession (Siege Engineer) running around with a horse carriage with a Balista strapped on for 'adventuring' (would probably need Tunnelfighting / Tunnelriding of some kind) and running siege crews for king and country. But it failed to materialize on me being unable to make the rules fit for the Balista be enchanted enough to get it into a 'a shot a round' without getting into questionable rule territory (was thinking something in the lines of Self-Loading (A&EG p116), and Quick-Loading (MIC p41)) arguing the case that a (heavy) Balista is a Huge sized Heavy Crossbow and able to be enchanted as such.
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2014-09-16, 12:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2012
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- Secret Lair on Sol c
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2014-09-16, 12:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2005
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Re: Junkyard Wars in the Playground VI: Wonderworker + Profession Skill - Factotum
So combine those and before having any spells, items, etc applied you're looking at a +50ish Profession(Merchant) check? Sounds pretty decent. Won't be hitting any meaningful power benchmarks, but the UoSI and Originality probably would have been top notch.
Actually if you could find a way to justify being able to actually use the profit you're earning from your business as a source of great personal wealth, then you are probably able to hit power benchmarks as well just through abuse if NI wealth.If my text is blue, I'm being sarcastic.But you already knew that, right?
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2014-09-16, 01:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Junkyard Wars in the Playground VI: Wonderworker + Profession Skill - Factotum
I honestly think running a shop or tavern using the DMG2 rules is the way to go for Profession. It gives you a nice return on your investment--every +1 is worth 50 gp per month. That means that over the lifespan of an average elf who opens a shop as soon as they reach adulthood, that measly +1 luck bonus from Favored of the Companions ends up being worth 265,000 gp--enough to buy an Epic-level magic item. And I bet you thought it was a feat tax!
Wonderworker is probably designed to be taken by prestige classes that have their own casting progressions. Normally it sucks because yeah, you gain spells per day, but you could have just taken another level of your spellcasting class. However, if you've already taken all ten levels of Apostle of Peace or Slayer of Domiel, that's not an option, which is where Wonderworker comes in.Last edited by Troacctid; 2014-09-16 at 01:11 AM.
Rhymes with "Protracted."
Handbooks: The Warlockopedia | The Warmagepedia (WIP) | Tier List (2019 Update)
Spreadsheets: Spellcasting classes | Deities | Useful items
Homebrew: Gestalt Theurge | Fighter and Monk fixes | Warlock stuff
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2014-09-16, 01:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2005
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Re: Junkyard Wars in the Playground VI: Wonderworker + Profession Skill - Factotum
I honestly think running a business using the DMG2 rules is the way to go for Profession. It gives you a nice return on your investment--every +1 is worth 50 gp per month.
Edit: Nevermind the cost for an upgrade is minimal enough and limited in usage enough that your upgrade rate should be about the same regardless of your profession check, as long as you are profitable.Last edited by Seerow; 2014-09-16 at 01:16 AM.
If my text is blue, I'm being sarcastic.But you already knew that, right?
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2014-09-16, 01:23 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2014
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- California
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Re: Junkyard Wars in the Playground VI: Wonderworker + Profession Skill - Factotum
For those without the book on hand, every three months you can invest 25% of the startup cost into your business to roll 1d4 and add that as a permanent bonus to your profit checks. So it's linear, not exponential, but it's still very significant when you're talking about a long-lived race like an elf.
Rhymes with "Protracted."
Handbooks: The Warlockopedia | The Warmagepedia (WIP) | Tier List (2019 Update)
Spreadsheets: Spellcasting classes | Deities | Useful items
Homebrew: Gestalt Theurge | Fighter and Monk fixes | Warlock stuff
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2014-09-16, 01:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2012
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- Secret Lair on Sol c
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Re: Junkyard Wars in the Playground VI: Wonderworker + Profession Skill - Factotum
Well ... except for the fact that Merchant Prince is FR and Commence is (as mentioned) Eberron, so they're kinda mutually exclusive. Reason why i posted it was that Merchant Prince weren't unique in gaining that kind of thing (hell, Dwarven Chanter used in one of the builds ups it by making the skill bonuses untyped for a much wider range of things, for a total bonus of +20 when its tedious work)
Last edited by Sian; 2014-09-16 at 01:25 AM.
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2014-09-16, 02:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2011
Re: Junkyard Wars in the Playground VI: Wonderworker + Profession Skill - Factotum
I had a build complete but never got motivated to do the big freaking fluff sections that these contests need, so it was shelved. Here's a brief description.
Spoiler: l00t n00bCG Necropolitan Illumian (Hoonkrau)
Bard 3/Human Paragon 3/Chameleon 10/Wonderworker 3/Marshal (Motivate Wisdom) 1
Ability scores:
STR 8
DEX 8
CON --
INT 16
WIS 18 (level up bonuses 4, 8, 12, and 20 go here)
CHA 14 (level up bonus 16 goes here)
Feats:
1 Jack of All Trades
3 Able Learner
B5 Planar Touchstone (Catalogues of Enlightenment [Commerce])
6 Favored in Guild (Performer)
C8 Any exalted feat, at first, then changed to something useful...Enhanced Power Sigils?
9 Fell Energy
12 Improved Sigil (Krau)
15 Knight of Stars
W17 Nymph's Kiss
18 Obtain Familiar
W18 Celestial Familiar
W19 Words of Creation
M20 Skill Focus (Diplomacy)
Profession never says how long you need to be working to make money, and Jack of All Trades means you can use all professions. So work multiple jobs. Planar Touchstone grants +10 to Profession checks to earn money, so you're looking at +16 on all professions even at level 5 (+10 PT, +4 Wisdom, +2 Hoon sigil). Favored In Guild doubles earnings from Profession. Chameleon's floating Bonus Feat allows circumventing a feat tax for Wonderworker, since Wonderworker gives an exalted feat back when you get in. Fell Energy combines with various skill-enchancing spells from Chameleon, giving a +2 bonus for each. Fell Energy on Share Talents, Divine Insight, Guidance of the Avatar...Profession checks get high real fast. Improved Sigil (Krau) on a Bard spell and a Chameleon spell allows qualification for Wonderworker, granting 9th-level spells, so you're relevant outside of Profession checks with them. Obtain Familiar and Celestial Familiar for a Coure Eladrin; share your skill buffs with her and have her do Profession checks as well, while you also use Aid Another on each other to boost the checks further. Words of Creation for more Bard-ness. Marshal's Motivate Wisdom gives you +Wis to Profession and allows Nymph's Kiss to apply to Profession checks.
A lot of this stuff applies to Wisdom-based skill checks in general, so the l00t n00b can also Fell Energy Alter Self into a Vampire Spawn for a +10 bonus to Spot and Listen (Fell Energy bumps up the racial skill bonuses and the Alertness bonus feat) and notice everything ever.
This was called the l00t n00b because I was going to make the fluff section be about the player thinking Profession was so OP because there was no chance of death, and then making optimized decisions based on the wrong reasons. But, then, couldn't be bothered to write 1000 words of n00b.
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2014-09-16, 02:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Junkyard Wars in the Playground VI: Wonderworker + Profession Skill - Factotum
there is a couple of issues with that build idea that springs to mind.
Able Learner is 1st level only
Depending on the judge your trick with Chameleon supplying the Exalted feat for Wonderworker, later replacing it with something else, might not work, since you then don't qualify for Wonderworker (feats from Wonderworker don't count for qualifying for Wonderworker, making it a loop).
Chameleon explicitly doesn't qualify with anything gained from Aptitude Focus, (and Ability Boon and Mimic) so using that for getting a better boost out of Wonderworker aren't working (and even if it did how would you get 9th level spells?)
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2014-09-16, 02:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2011
Re: Junkyard Wars in the Playground VI: Wonderworker + Profession Skill - Factotum
Good thing it's not in the contest, then. I don't actually know how to optimize; that's why I keep dying in actual play.
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2014-09-16, 07:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2013
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2014-09-16, 07:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Junkyard Wars in the Playground VI: Wonderworker + Profession Skill - Factotum
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2014-09-16, 08:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Junkyard Wars in the Playground VI: Wonderworker + Profession Skill - Factotum
i usually play for a dm who uses subtlety to the extreme and likes to make most encounters that you "can" encounter unbeatable in a straight fight. only the ones you have to encounter are beatable.
on the side of this there is usually some way to circumvent or beat any challenge. but the hints can be way too subtle. he sometimes holds his hands up and says
"sorry, i made this way too difficult".
so he loves it when we are cleverer then he anticipates. like the time when playing world of darkness werewolf i completed an entire meant-to-be 3 session long adventure in 15 minutes because i had to leave.