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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Vow of Perfection

    Because Vow of Poverty is full of fail.

    Vow of Perfection (General)
    "I strive to be the greatest there can be with the best of my ability, and with my ability alone."

    You may own any number of nonmagical, nonmasterwork items, as long as the combined weight of these items is not greater than your maximum carrying capacity. You may own masterwork items if and only if you crafted them yourself. Anything exceeding this weight capacity must be left behind. If your carrying capacity is temporarily reduced, continue to use your base carrying capacity to determine the possessions you may own (thus, an enemy cannot force a character to break their vow by reducing their Strength score). Dwellings do not count against this limit if you have built them yourself, if you have been invited as a guest, or if they are natural settings (such as a cave or tree). You may use and/or borrow nonmagical items from others; however, if you carry such items on your person for more than 24 hours they begin to count against the total weight of items you may own.

    "Any fool can pick up a sword enchanted by some long-dead wizard and strike down their foes."

    You may not use or own any magic items of any sort other than potions, oils, or any other item with a mechanically identical effect, such as the potion alternatives detailed on page 138 of Complete Arcane, which you may use, but may not carry on your person for more than 24 hours at a time. You also may not "borrow" any non-potion magic item from a companion for even a single round, nor may you yourself cast a spell from a scroll, wand, or staff. Others may use magic items on you as long as you neither assist in the item's activation. You may benefit from spell effects that grant magical properties to your possessions for limited durations (for example, a magic weapon spell).

    "I need no such cheaters' tricks."

    If you break your vow by using or owning a magic item, you immediately and irrevocably lose the benefit of this feat. You may not take another feat to replace it. If you break your vow by owning more items than you can carry, you lose the benefit of this feat until you discard or destroy items until your possessions are under the weight limit again.

    "Give me a only sharp blade, a solid shield, and friends to stand beside, and I shall crush empires beneath my heel."

    Benefits of a Vow of Perfection
    AC Bonus (Ex): A 1st-level perfection seeker receives a +4 luck bonus to his Armor Class. The bonus increases to +5 at 3rd level, and thereafter increases by +1 for each 3 character levels. This bonus does not apply to touch attacks and does not hinder incorporeal touch attacks. While a perfection seeker is wearing armor, this bonus is halved (round down).

    Endure Elements (Ex): A 3rd-level perfection seeker is immune to the effects of being in a hot or cold environment. He can exist comfortably in conditions between -50 and 140 degrees Fahrenheit without having to make Fortitude saves (as described in the Dungeon Master's Guide).

    Perfected Strike (Su): At 4th level, a perfection seeker gains a +1 enhancement bonus on all his attack and damage rolls. In effect, any weapon the character wields becomes a +1 magic weapon, and can overcome the damage reduction of a creature as though it were a magic weapon. This enhancement bonus rises to +2 at 10th level, to +3 at 14th level, to +4 at 17th level, and to +5 at 20th level.

    Deflection (Su): A 6th-level perfection seeker receives a +1 deflection bonus to his Armor Class. This bonus increases to +2 at 12th level, and to +3 at 18th level.

    Resistance (Ex): At 7th level, a perfection seeker gains a +1 luck bonus on all saving throws. This bonus increases to +2 at 13th level, and to +3 at 17th level.

    Ability Score Enhancement (Ex): At 7th level, a perfection seeker gains a +2 enhancement bonus to one ability score. At 11th level, he gains an extra +2 bonus to that score, and a +2 bonus to another ability score. At 15th level, he gains an extra +2 bonus to those two scores, and a +2 bonus to a third ability score. At 19th level, he gains an extra +2 bonus to those three scores, and a +2 bonus to a fourth ability score.

    Natural Armor (Ex): At 8th level, a perfection seeker gains a +1 natural armor bonus, or his existing natural armor bonus increases by +1. It increases an extra +1 at 16th level.

    Mind Shielding (Ex): Also at 8th level, a perfection seeker becomes immune to detect thoughts, discern lies, and any attempt to discern his alignment.

    Damage Reduction (Su): A perfection seeker gains damage reduction 5/magic at 10th level. At 15th level, this improves to 5/+1, and at 19th level to 10/+1.

    Energy Resistance (Ex): At 13th level, a perfection seeker gains resistance 5 to acid, cold, electricity, fire, and sonic energy. At 20th level, this increases to resistance 15.

    Freedom of Movement (Ex): At 14th level, a perfection seeker can act as if continually under the effect of a freedom of movement spell.

    Regeneration (Ex): At 17th level, a perfection seeker heals 1 point of damage per level per hour rather than every day. (This ability cannot be aided by the Heal skill.) Nonlethal damage heals at a rate of 1 point of damage per level every 5 minutes.

    True Seeing (Su): At 18th level, a perfection seeker gains a continuous true seeing ability, as the spell.

    "I strive to be the greatest there can be with the best of my ability, and with my ability alone. Any fool can pick up a sword enchanted by some long-dead wizard and strike down their foes, but I need no such cheaters' tricks. Give me a only sharp blade, a solid shield, and friends to stand beside, and I shall crush empires beneath my heel."
    Last edited by Extra Anchovies; 2014-09-14 at 12:16 PM.
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  2. - Top - End - #2
    Orc in the Playground
     
    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Re: Vow of Perfection

    Really cool, though what about when flying comes online? It looks like if say, a paladin took this, he'd be stuck on the ground, unable to charge upward or whatnot.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Vow of Perfection

    Quote Originally Posted by Leviting View Post
    Really cool, though what about when flying comes online? It looks like if say, a paladin took this, he'd be stuck on the ground, unable to charge upward or whatnot.
    He can still accept spell effects; if the party's wizard has a fifth-level spell slot to spare, the Paladin can be flying all day (Overland Flight). Just the same as a Vow of Poverty character.
    Last edited by Extra Anchovies; 2014-09-13 at 08:34 PM.
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  4. - Top - End - #4
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Zaydos's Avatar

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    Default Re: Vow of Perfection

    I am failing to see how this actually is better than VoP. You are a little more lenient on non-magical items (ok significantly) but those aren't the important ones, although it does make it more powerful for levels 1-3 (when melee is relatively strong and it's a +2 to +4 to AC for one feat). Unfortunately once mundane items begin to fall to the background this feat actually is significantly worse than VoP. I mean it saves you 1 feat, but you lose 10 bonus feats, and the Ability Score Enhancements while not gaining anything else.

    Only your DR is possibly better and it's currently meaningless as DR 5/+1 is meaningless in 3.5 terms and would be the same as DR 5/magic anyway.
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  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Vow of Perfection

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydos View Post
    I am failing to see how this actually is better than VoP. You are a little more lenient on non-magical items (ok significantly) but those aren't the important ones, although it does make it more powerful for levels 1-3 (when melee is relatively strong and it's a +2 to +4 to AC for one feat). Unfortunately once mundane items begin to fall to the background this feat actually is significantly worse than VoP. I mean it saves you 1 feat, but you lose 10 bonus feats, and the Ability Score Enhancements while not gaining anything else.

    Only your DR is possibly better and it's currently meaningless as DR 5/+1 is meaningless in 3.5 terms and would be the same as DR 5/magic anyway.
    The ability score enhancements are still in there, though. Copied nearly word-for-word from normal Vow of Poverty, the only change being that "an ascetic" is replaced by "a perfection seeker". And are the exalted feats actually that useful? None of them seemed really all that great last time I checked.

    Thanks for the feedback; I do agree that this is still too weak to really be playable. I'm currently taking a look at Drolyt's fix, and am probably going to be adapting a few things from that into this one. With due credit given, of course.

    ETA: Since you seem displeased with the current state of the feat, do you have any suggestions for improvement? I'm not aiming for it to be something that's mechanically better than magic items, nor do I want something that is even equal to them. It's still supposed to be a heavy roleplaying and power restriction, but at the same time not be so limiting as to create unplayable characters (for example, Wizards and Clerics can't even benefit from Vow of Poverty, because they can't have spellbooks or holy symbols).
    Last edited by Extra Anchovies; 2014-09-13 at 08:50 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AGrinningCat View Post
    Lay on hands? More like Lay your Eyes on this sick elbow drop!

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Vow of Perfection

    A Non-caster can't work without magic items, so any kind of Vow of Poverty style feat must, bare minimum, equal WBL.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Vow of Perfection

    Quote Originally Posted by Leviting View Post
    Really cool, though what about when flying comes online? It looks like if say, a paladin took this, he'd be stuck on the ground, unable to charge upward or whatnot.
    Well the paladin in particular can get a flying mount. In 3.5 it's even a pokemount so she can use it in a large indoor cavern if she has to. Actually I'm generally of the opinion that if your DM gives you a challenge that requires flight and doesn't give access to flying mounts or some kind of climbable landscape, you have a DM problem more than a system problem, and thus I don't consider flight one of the "must have but don't" issues that plague mundanes without magic items. I'm aware I'm in the minority there though.

    I do see an issue with the "borrow" clause, though - one of the failings of vanilla VoP is that if your buddy is bleeding out next to you, with a potion of healing on his belt, that belongs to him, you can't uncork it and pour it in his mouth to save his life. This vow doesn't explicitly deny that, but nor does it explicitly permit it; do we define "borrow" as including using someone's items on them or not?

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    molten_dragon's Avatar

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    Default Re: Vow of Perfection

    I'll echo what others have said regarding the power level of the feat.

    I'll also point out that it doesn't really make a lot of sense from a fluff perspective either. If the person who takes the vow can own masterwork items and castles he built himself, why not magic items he built himself?
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  9. - Top - End - #9
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Vow of Perfection

    Quote Originally Posted by Sindeloke View Post
    Well the paladin in particular can get a flying mount. In 3.5 it's even a pokemount so she can use it in a large indoor cavern if she has to. Actually I'm generally of the opinion that if your DM gives you a challenge that requires flight and doesn't give access to flying mounts or some kind of climbable landscape, you have a DM problem more than a system problem, and thus I don't consider flight one of the "must have but don't" issues that plague mundanes without magic items. I'm aware I'm in the minority there though.
    I agree with you here. If the DM hasn't given the PCs a chance to acquire resources sufficient to overcome a challenge, he shouldn't present them with that challenge unless they are intended to lose (or if it's a free-roaming game and the challenge is meant for higher-level PCs).

    Quote Originally Posted by Sindeloke View Post
    I do see an issue with the "borrow" clause, though - one of the failings of vanilla VoP is that if your buddy is bleeding out next to you, with a potion of healing on his belt, that belongs to him, you can't uncork it and pour it in his mouth to save his life. This vow doesn't explicitly deny that, but nor does it explicitly permit it; do we define "borrow" as including using someone's items on them or not?
    To respond:
    Quote Originally Posted by Extra Anchovies View Post
    Others may use magic items on you as long as you neither assist in the item's activation.
    I should still probably include a clause exempting one-use spell-effect items such as potions, though. Will do so now, even though I'm not sure how well this attempt is going to pan out...

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    I'll also point out that it doesn't really make a lot of sense from a fluff perspective either. If the person who takes the vow can own masterwork items and castles he built himself, why not magic items he built himself?
    That's actually a game balance issue; Artificers would not lose very much at all if I added that, nor would other magic item makers. Not that I'm not considering it; I'm just really torn about it.
    Please use they/them/theirs when referring to me in the third person.
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  10. - Top - End - #10
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Vow of Perfection

    I mean, this is cool and all, but a VoP fix would be much more easily done by just putting in a few exalted feats that are actually useful. In fact, I think I'll get around to that soon.
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  11. - Top - End - #11
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Vow of Perfection

    Quote Originally Posted by somebody27else View Post
    I mean, this is cool and all, but a VoP fix would be much more easily done by just putting in a few exalted feats that are actually useful. In fact, I think I'll get around to that soon.
    Very true. The first time I saw Vow of Poverty, I thought it was pretty cool; then I looked at the exalted feats and realized it was full of fail.
    Please use they/them/theirs when referring to me in the third person.
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    Cassidy Halloran, Human Scout
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    Quote Originally Posted by AGrinningCat View Post
    Lay on hands? More like Lay your Eyes on this sick elbow drop!

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Vow of Perfection

    Here and Here have some decent ones, and I generally allow access to Domain feats as well, since they're pretty good but have a set number of uses. In particular I favor Animal Devotion since it gives flight, greater speed, greater strength, or a poisonous attack a specific number of times a day that's quite useful for a VoP user.
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    good thing they did body attribute instead of Physical attribute, otherwise the stats would look like:

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