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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Nov 2013

    Default [3.5] Save or Dies and Save or Sucks that aren't spells or psionics?

    Does anybody have a list of Save or Dies and Save or Sucks that aren't spells, Spell-like abilities, psionics or Psi-like abilities?

    I'm looking for class features, maneuvers or anything else that is essentially a save or suck/die for a concept I'm working on, and was curious if anybody had an easy list that could be looked up.
    Quote Originally Posted by (Un)Inspired View Post
    Contingency is like playing chess but you get to make several moves on your turn, several on you opponents turn and you're allowed to rearrange the board when he gets up to go to the bathroom.
    Quote Originally Posted by Segev View Post
    Spite™! Obey your thirst...for VENGEANCE.
    Quote Originally Posted by Raven777 View Post
    I'm not saying that nobody should play the marathon runner. I'm saying we should at least give him rollerblades.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Necroticplague's Avatar

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    Aug 2010

    Default Re: [3.5] Save or Dies and Save or Sucks that aren't spells or psionics?

    If I remember right, some of the higher level Tome of Battle maneuvers included a couple of these (I think a Tiger Claw one let you pretty much rip their heart out their chest). Reaping Mauler also lets you do one if you pin them for 3 rounds in a row.
    Avatar by TinyMushroom.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    HalflingPirate

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    May 2008
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    In an Octopus's Garden

    Default Re: [3.5] Save or Dies and Save or Sucks that aren't spells or psionics?

    There are quite a few in my Melee Debuff miniguide.
    Dex

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    Regarding my Necrotic Apprentice trick:
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    This is brilliant.
    Regarding my Non-Epic Hidecarved Dragon:
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    Nicely done. Probably too cheesy for many tables, but I'd be inclined to allow it at mine, just for chutzpah.

    Have a cookie.
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    Check out the Versatile Domain Generalist.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Nov 2013

    Default Re: [3.5] Save or Dies and Save or Sucks that aren't spells or psionics?

    Quote Originally Posted by dextercorvia View Post
    There are quite a few in my Melee Debuff miniguide.
    That is beautiful, thank you.
    Quote Originally Posted by (Un)Inspired View Post
    Contingency is like playing chess but you get to make several moves on your turn, several on you opponents turn and you're allowed to rearrange the board when he gets up to go to the bathroom.
    Quote Originally Posted by Segev View Post
    Spite™! Obey your thirst...for VENGEANCE.
    Quote Originally Posted by Raven777 View Post
    I'm not saying that nobody should play the marathon runner. I'm saying we should at least give him rollerblades.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    DrowGirl

    Join Date
    Jun 2009

    Default Re: [3.5] Save or Dies and Save or Sucks that aren't spells or psionics?

    Simple combat manuvers kind of work that way.... Trip, Disarm, and Sunder are all pretty bad Save or Suck vs melee and physical ranged dps (can't even fire a bow at all from prone). Grapple is a pretty big save or suck vs Casters until Freedom of MOvement becomes common.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Nov 2013

    Default Re: [3.5] Save or Dies and Save or Sucks that aren't spells or psionics?

    I'm actually looking for things where the victim has to not just roll and opposed check, but roll a save, because I was looking at ways to optimize the Unseelie Fey's Winter's Chill ability, so while disarm, trip and what not can be functional, they don't force a save, and are therefore pretty much immune to the dangers of Winter's Chill.
    Quote Originally Posted by (Un)Inspired View Post
    Contingency is like playing chess but you get to make several moves on your turn, several on you opponents turn and you're allowed to rearrange the board when he gets up to go to the bathroom.
    Quote Originally Posted by Segev View Post
    Spite™! Obey your thirst...for VENGEANCE.
    Quote Originally Posted by Raven777 View Post
    I'm not saying that nobody should play the marathon runner. I'm saying we should at least give him rollerblades.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2004

    Default Re: [3.5] Save or Dies and Save or Sucks that aren't spells or psionics?

    Fear Handbook

    For example, a Zhentarim Fighter 9 with Imperious Command (DotU) can make an opponent cower every round as a swift action by making an Intimidate check. With proper skill optimization (Item Familiar, Competence bonus magic item) you'll always succeed on your Intimidate check. With armor that has the Fearsome property from DotU (which is a more recent version than MIC) you can do that to three opponents every round with a swift action and two move actions. That's one character spending every round to make three opponents he threatens cower every round, causing all three of them to do nothing for the entire fight.

    A Bard can do similar effects, though the opponents get to make saving throws against most of those. Between Inspire Awe, Haunting Melody, and Dreadful Wrath, opponents will have to make three saving throws or become Shaken > Frightened > Panicked. He can also cast a Fell Frighten Sound Burst or similar to make opponents Shaken or escalate their existing condition by one step automatically. Nightmare Spinner allows him to do a similar effect on a single target. That build is a bit more reliant on spellcasting, though.

    Just a whole party with Dreadful Wrath is a force to be reckoned with.

    A Dread Necromancer 7+ can get a Ghostly Visage from the Fiend Folio for a familiar. That can always be possessing him and manifest over his face during combat to use its paralyzing gaze attack, though it can also affect allies. Note that as normal for gaze attacks it can spend a standard action every round to force an opponent to save vs its effect again, even if they're not looking or if they already made the save that round. A Dread Necro is pretty good at fear effects in general as well.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Troll in the Playground
     
    sleepyphoenixx's Avatar

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    Oct 2012

    Default Re: [3.5] Save or Dies and Save or Sucks that aren't spells or psionics?

    Druids get a few of these via Dragon Wild Shape. Sleep, Paralysis, Daze, Poison, Energy Drain and Fear are some of the possible breath weapons, but there's probably a few more.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    sideswipe's Avatar

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    Apr 2013

    Default Re: [3.5] Save or Dies and Save or Sucks that aren't spells or psionics?

    there is a very cheap alchemical item that gives a fortitude save (reasonably high for its price) or the subject cannot breath air for hours (cant remember the exact time but it is measured in hours). this causes any creature without the breath air spell, or some other method of breathing another substance or not breathing at all to die.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2007
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    The Land of Cleves
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5] Save or Dies and Save or Sucks that aren't spells or psionics?

    There's also all manner of poisons.
    Time travels in divers paces with divers persons.
    As You Like It, III:ii:328

    Chronos's Unalliterative Skillmonkey Guide
    Current Homebrew: 5th edition psionics

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Crake's Avatar

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    May 2011

    Default Re: [3.5] Save or Dies and Save or Sucks that aren't spells or psionics?

    Quote Originally Posted by sideswipe View Post
    there is a very cheap alchemical item that gives a fortitude save (reasonably high for its price) or the subject cannot breath air for hours (cant remember the exact time but it is measured in hours). this causes any creature without the breath air spell, or some other method of breathing another substance or not breathing at all to die.
    was gonna suggest this, its called aboleth mucus, i cant remember where its from, but iirc, its only like 20gp
    World of Madius wiki - My personal campaign setting, including my homebrew Optional Gestalt/LA rules.
    The new Quick Vestige List

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    Playing a wizard the way GitP says wizards should be played requires the equivalent time and effort investment of a university minor. Do you really want to go down this rabbit hole, or are you comfortable with just throwing a souped-up Orb of Fire at the thing?
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    Humans are rarely truly irrational, just wrong.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Orc in the Playground
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    Aug 2011

    Default Re: [3.5] Save or Dies and Save or Sucks that aren't spells or psionics?

    Choke Hold, a feat out of Oriental Adventures, makes an opponent you pin for a full round save or fall unconscious for 1d3 rounds. Wis-based Fort save, requires IUS, Improved Grapple, and Stunning Fist.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Troll in the Playground
     
    The Viscount's Avatar

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    Dec 2012

    Default Re: [3.5] Save or Dies and Save or Sucks that aren't spells or psionics?

    Witch Slayer has a Su ability that's a targeted antimagic field, which could easily be quite sucky.
    Kolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Only playing Tier 1s is like only eating in five-star restaurants [...] sometimes I just want a cheeseburger and some frogurt. Why limit yourself?
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  14. - Top - End - #14
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Inevitability's Avatar

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    Feb 2014
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    Planes of Law

    Default Re: [3.5] Save or Dies and Save or Sucks that aren't spells or psionics?

    Straight from core: Death Attack. It's pretty sucky though.
    Have you had enough of unreasonably high LA's and unplayable monsters in 3.5? Then check out the LA-assignment thread! Don't hesitate to give feedback!

    Extended signature!

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

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    Mar 2014

    Default Re: [3.5] Save or Dies and Save or Sucks that aren't spells or psionics?

    Of course, since death attacks are in most circumstances going to be full-damage sneak attacks as well... How many people would go for assassin without being rogues anyway?
    Also, the monk has a save-or-die at higher levels. It doesn't seem worth the investment, though, unless you've already decided you want to play one.

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