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    RogueGuy

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    Default The DMs guide to Pre-Game ambiguous RAW

    Hey everyone!

    I want to hear your suggestions for the ambiguous RAW that a DM should consider prior to starting their game. Examples of these questions would be "Can a lightfoot halfling rogue use their bonus action to hide behind a taller ally at mid-combat" or "If I take a warlock level at PC level 15, am I able to take a level 15 or higher invocation?"

    Note, this isn't meant to discuss the merits of an answer to these questions, as most of these questions have threads of their own. It's more meant to talk about which questions exist so that DMs have an idea of what to discuss with their group in advance of starting a campaign.

    Hit me with those questions, or with suggestions on how to clarify questions currently in the spoiler.

    Thanks!

    Edit: If you bring up something that is ambiguous, please be specific in how it's ambiguous, as I may not be familiar with it. Saying something like "That Find Steed thing with two spells" wouldn't do anything for me had I not already known it. (no one said this, it was an example).

    ---

    Spoiler: Ambiguous RAW to consider
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    1. Can a lightfoot halfling rogue use their bonus action to hide behind a taller ally mid-combat? Rogue hiding and location thread
    2. If I take a warlock level at PC level 15, am I able to take a level 15 or higher invocation?Offical WotC Answer on this and it's thread
    3. If I cast Cone of Cold (or other Target: Self spells) while riding a mount found via the Find Steed spell, does the steed also cast a second Cone of Cold? What about other un-intuitive Target: Self Spells? (Magic Jar, Etc.) Find Steed thread
    4. Does Crossbow Expert allow you to dual wield hand crossbows by creating an entirely new set of rules for this situation, or does it modify the Two Weapon Fighting rules (as you are fighting with two weapons), therebye requiring a one handed melee weapon?
    5. Do you get your Dex to damage with the bonus attack from Crossbow Expert?
    6. Does Crossbow Expert allow the bonus action attack if you are only wielding a single hand crossbow?
    Questions 4-6 are found in this thread
    7. Do you get Mod to damage on the bonus attack offered by the haft of a polearm with the PolearmMaster feat?
    8. Does Twin Spell metamagic require single target spells, or instead does it allow any spell with the ability to target multiple enemies (but currently only targets one enemy with this casting)? Twinned Spell Thread Quicken Vs Twin Spell thread
    9. If a Half-Orc or Barbarian is under the effects of Chill Touch when reduced to zero HP or below, do they immediately change to 1 HP per their race/class feature, or does Chill Touch over ride it?
    10. How does the effects of Chill Touch interact with the HP regaining features of Wild Shape?
    11. If, as an Illusionist Wizard, you create a heavy object over an enemy, then use Illusory Reality to "make it real", does it directly deal damage when it invariably falls on the enemy below? Additioanlly, can I use the same combination to create spell materials?Illusory Reality thread
    12. Can you use Wild Shape while already in Beast Form? Level 20 Druid Thread Onion Druid Thread
    13. Does the Sentinel feat's second ability (Creatures within 5 feat of you provoke opportunity attacks from you even if they take the Disengage action before leaving your reach.) change if I have a reach of 10 feet or more?
    14. An enemy triggers an attack of opportunity from entering a Polearm Master + Battlemaster Fighter's reach at 10 feet. If the PM+BM player uses a trip attack, does the trip attack cause the creature to fall down at 10 or 15 feet?
    15. A Barbarian's Rage ability grants certain benefits, so long as the player isn't wearing heavy armor. However, a totem barbarian's rage abilities do not mention armor at all. Would a Totem Barbarian gain their totem benefits in full armor?
    16. If I use the Help action to give advantage to an ally's attack, can I move away on the same turn?
    17. Do cantrips with level-based scaling damage increase in damage from over-all character level, or from the relevant class level(s)? Relevant Cantrip Thread

    Credit:
    Thanks to Shadow for 4-8.
    Thanks to Shining Wrath for 9-10
    Thanks to Archaeo for 12
    Thanks to Vowtz for 13-16
    Thanks to DeAnno for 17


    Spoiler: Previously Ambiguous Questions Answered By Designers
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    Article

    Rulings from the article:

    1. The fighter’s dueling style, which grants a +2 to damage, works with a shield in the off hand.
    2. A divine focus can be emblazoned on a cleric’s shield, enabling the cleric to wield a weapon in the other hand and still cast spells. A wizard can hold an arcane focus in one hand and a weapon in another and still cast spells. A druid must hold mistletoe as an arcane focus, so druids must either stash their shield or their weapon to cast.
    3. Moving through the space of an ally, even a prone ally, counts as difficult terrain.
    4. You cannot hide from a creature that can see you. Aside from that limitation, the DM must rule on when a creature can hide and sneak based on what makes sense in the game world. See “D&D next re-empowers DMs; players stay empowered.” The designers tried to write broad rules for stealth, but found that the number of possibilities made the rules too cumbersome for the elegant game they aimed to create.
    5. Initiative rolls count as Dexterity checks, so anything that boosts Dexterity checks improves initiative.
    6. Multi-classed characters only gain ability score increases when they reach the benefit levels in one of their classes. Although classes gain an ability score increase at fourth level, a character multi-classed to level 2 in two classes does not gain an ability score increase.
    7. The missiles in a Magic Missile strike simultaneously. This means the strikes count as a single source of damage for things like resistance and that 3 magic missiles striking a character at 0 HP does not count as 3 failed death saves. Your wizard must decide which missiles will hit which targets before you start tallying damage.
    8. If an opportunity attack or other reaction drops you prone as you move, you can still use your remaining movement to crawl or stand. The usual movement costs apply.
    9. Spells that include an attack roll can score a critical hit.

    Last edited by Corinath; 2014-09-19 at 09:43 PM.

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    Default Re: The DMs guide to Pre-Game ambiguous RAW

    Point of note:
    "3. If I cast Cone of Cold (or other Target: Self spells) while riding a mount found via the Find Steed spell, does the steed also cast a second Cone of Cold?"

    It has Range: self
    It targets an area, not you. So that's not an example of ambiguous rules. That's an example is misread rules.

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    Default Re: The DMs guide to Pre-Game ambiguous RAW

    Touché. I'll withdraw it.

    I never liked the ambiguity of that one anyhow, but since I didn't know how to directly refute it I included it. Striking it through.

    Edit: So perhaps with CoC it doesn't work, but are there other Self: Target spells that perhaps do wonky things with Find Steed that would make a more relevant ambiguous RAW ruling?
    Last edited by Corinath; 2014-09-14 at 05:27 PM.

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    Default Re: The DMs guide to Pre-Game ambiguous RAW

    I guess I just don't understand peoples issues with the halfling. Normally you cannot hide unless you can't be seen, and the Lightfoot Halflings ability allows you to attempt to hide when you're only obscured by a creature one size category larger than yourself. Under specific beats general, a Lightfoot Halfling can hide behind their larger ally no problem. Note that the second you move you likely won't be hiding any more.

    As for the warlock thing, I'm pretty sure you need a warlock level to meet prereqs. Almost every ability in the classes chapter doesn't specify what class you need, only the level, because they are within the class features of a specific class. As invocations are a warlock class feature and worded pretty much the same, it should work the same.
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    Default Re: The DMs guide to Pre-Game ambiguous RAW

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOOB View Post
    I guess I just don't understand peoples issues with the halfling. Normally you cannot hide unless you can't be seen, and the Lightfoot Halflings ability allows you to attempt to hide when you're only obscured by a creature one size category larger than yourself. Under specific beats general, a Lightfoot Halfling can hide behind their larger ally no problem. Note that the second you move you likely won't be hiding any more.

    As for the warlock thing, I'm pretty sure you need a warlock level to meet prereqs. Almost every ability in the classes chapter doesn't specify what class you need, only the level, because they are within the class features of a specific class. As invocations are a warlock class feature and worded pretty much the same, it should work the same.
    Seeing as how there was a very long debate about the halfling thing, I included it. No one had RAW on their side. Regarding the Warlock thing, the other thread on the front page (currently) literally elicited a response from WotC that, paraphrased, states "consult your DM." (Though thank you for reminding me it's Lightfoot halflings only. I'll make that edit.)

    Either way, I don't want this thread to derail into the merits of a ruling on the questions. I just want to compile a list of questions.
    Last edited by Corinath; 2014-09-14 at 05:42 PM.

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    Default Re: The DMs guide to Pre-Game ambiguous RAW

    Possible questions, and what my personal ruling would be.

    Does Crossbow Expert allow you to dual wield hand crossbows by creating an entirely new set of rules for this situation, or does it modify the Two Weapon Fighting rules (as you are fighting with two weapons), therebye requiring a one handed melee weapon?
    My ruling: modifies the TWF rules and requires a melee weapon

    Do you get your Dex to damage with the bonus attack from Crossbow Expert?
    My ruling: No, see TWF rules

    Does Crossbow Expert allow the bonus action attack if you are only wielding a single hand crossbow?
    My ruling: No

    Do you get Mod to damage on the bonus attack offered by the haft of a polearm with the PolearmMaster feat?
    My ruling: No, as you are effectively using each end as a separate weapon, see TWF rules

    Does Twin Spell metamagic require single target spells, or instead does it allow any spell with the ability to target multiple enemies (but currently only targets one enemy with this casting)?
    My ruling: single target spells
    Last edited by Shadow; 2014-09-14 at 06:17 PM.

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    Default Re: The DMs guide to Pre-Game ambiguous RAW

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
    Does Twin Spell metamagic require single target spells, or instead does it allow any spell with the ability to target multiple enemies (but currently only targets one enemy with this casting)?
    My ruling: single target spells
    This one is important, it caused quite a stir. Surrealistik, among others, argued quite vociferously on it. I think it's likely to come up.

    For what it's worth, my ruling is the same as Shadow's, but it's good to look at.
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    Default Re: The DMs guide to Pre-Game ambiguous RAW

    Thanks Shadow!

    I'm on my way out the door, so I'll add them later tonight!

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    Default Re: The DMs guide to Pre-Game ambiguous RAW

    This post and this post both clarify exactly why you cannot target yourself with a cone of cold to also have your steed cast another one, even though some people think that you can.

    Well technically you can do it, but it's suicidal. Literally.
    Last edited by Shadow; 2014-09-15 at 03:19 AM.

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    GreenSorcererElf

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    Default Re: The DMs guide to Pre-Game ambiguous RAW

    I think the rules regarding Wild Shape are a bit ambiguous. Reading that section, it's certainly written in an absurdly comprehensive manner, but one issue is pretty unclear: can you use Wild Shape while already in beast form? If so, this allows functionally infinite HP at level 20 for the cost of a bonus action; if not, it requires both action and bonus action at level 20, which is at least slightly less crazy.

    I've already talked about this, so I'll spoiler my reading of the rules.

    Spoiler
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    The rules for Wild Shape read, in part:

    "You can stay in a beast shape for a number of hours equal to half your druid level (rounded down). You then revert to your normal form unless you expend another use of this feature"

    The clear suggestion here is that, if you use Wild Shape while already in beast form, you only extend your current transformation, and you do not get to transform again until you are in druid form. While the rules later say "You retain the benefit of any features from your class," the wording of the feature certainly doesn't explicitly say you can transform from one shape to another, while it most certainly does imply that using the feature while already transformed only extends it.

    This still lets Druids have virtually infinite HP as long as they take no actions other than moving and switching back and forth every turn. But that is, apparently, the rules working as intended; I expect that there will be many CR 20 monsters that will be able to smack down your CR 6 forms. Druids are just the tankiest class in D&D right now, and I expect Sentinel, some buffs, and CR 6 forms with reach will be very popular late-game builds.
    Last edited by archaeo; 2014-09-15 at 11:25 AM.

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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: The DMs guide to Pre-Game ambiguous RAW

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
    This post and this post both clarify exactly why you cannot target yourself with a cone of cold to also have your steed cast another one, even though some people think that you can.

    Well technically you can do it, but it's suicidal. Literally.
    RAW, you absolutely can. It's just that no DM should let you, since it's drowning a party member back to health tier.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
    Possible questions, and what my personal ruling would be.

    Does Crossbow Expert allow you to dual wield hand crossbows by creating an entirely new set of rules for this situation, or does it modify the Two Weapon Fighting rules (as you are fighting with two weapons), therebye requiring a one handed melee weapon?
    My ruling: modifies the TWF rules and requires a melee weapon

    Do you get Mod to damage on the bonus attack offered by the haft of a polearm with the PolearmMaster feat?
    My ruling: No, as you are effectively using each end as a separate weapon, see TWF rules
    Except that ruling has no basis in logic. Two-weapon fighting is a specific set of rules for using a melee weapon in each hand. There is absolutely no reason to extrapolate it to every bonus action attack not getting the ability modifier to damage. What's next, monk and barbarian bonus action attacks don't get the bonus as well?

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    Default Re: The DMs guide to Pre-Game ambiguous RAW

    Quote Originally Posted by Eslin View Post
    Except that ruling has no basis in logic. Two-weapon fighting is a specific set of rules for using a melee weapon in each hand. There is absolutely no reason to extrapolate it to every bonus action attack not getting the ability modifier to damage. What's next, monk and barbarian bonus action attacks don't get the bonus as well?
    Read the OP and respect it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Corinath View Post
    Note, this isn't meant to discuss the merits of an answer to these questions, as most of these questions have threads of their own. It's more meant to talk about which questions exist so that DMs have an idea of what to discuss with their group in advance of starting a campaign.

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    Default Re: The DMs guide to Pre-Game ambiguous RAW

    Quote Originally Posted by Eslin View Post
    RAW, you absolutely can. It's just that no DM should let you, since it's drowning a party member back to health tier.
    Casting the spell doesn't make your steed also cast it, it just includes it in the effect. And the effect in this case is damage. So go ahead, climb your steed, face an empty wall, and cast Cone of Cold on yourself so both you and your mount both take 8d8 damage.
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    Default Re: The DMs guide to Pre-Game ambiguous RAW

    Quote Originally Posted by Totema View Post
    Casting the spell doesn't make your steed also cast it, it just includes it in the effect. And the effect in this case is damage. So go ahead, climb your steed, face an empty wall, and cast Cone of Cold on yourself so both you and your mount both take 8d8 damage.
    That's not the case though. Spells like cone of cold have a range of (self) 60ft - the spell targets you, then its effect is to create a 60ft cone from you. You share that with the mount, the mount creates a 60ft cone as well. It doesn't hit the horse, because 'a cone's point of origin is not included in the cone's area of effect, unless you decide otherwise'.

    I'm not advocating its use, since it is clearly just abusing poor wording and so shouldn't be allowed, but the fact remains that it is RAW legal.
    For those reading who like the idea of using your horse to boost spells, content yourself with spells like produce flame, communion, vampiric touch and magic jar that clearly work and aren't just RAW abuse.

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    Default Re: The DMs guide to Pre-Game ambiguous RAW

    You can only target yourself if you are in the area of effect, so in order to make this work, you have to take 8d8 damage. And then when it does work, you end up taking 16d8 damage instead.
    Read the post you quoted. And then read the OP and the post I reponded with and we can all stop arguing in this thread.

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    Default Re: The DMs guide to Pre-Game ambiguous RAW

    Quote Originally Posted by Eslin View Post
    That's not the case though. Spells like cone of cold have a range of (self) 60ft - the spell targets you, then its effect is to create a 60ft cone from you. You share that with the mount, the mount creates a 60ft cone as well. It doesn't hit the horse, because 'a cone's point of origin is not included in the cone's area of effect, unless you decide otherwise'.
    I'd argue otherwise, because the spell's description doesn't ask you to specify a target. By RAW (pg 204, under Targets) the spell description needs to actually mention a caster selecting a creature within range for the spell to effect. The range property itself doesn't mean anything.

    Spells like Magic Missile or Bless or what have you say that the spell's effects work on a creature within range, or a given number of creatures within range, whereas Cone of Cold and Thunderwave and et cetera make their effect on the area without technically targeting anything. If a creature would hypothetically be able to move out of the way as a reaction, the distinction becomes important; if it to moves out of the area of emanation from something like Cone of Cold as a reaction, the spell would still create the blast, whereas if it moves out of the range of something like Touch of Death, the spell would just fizzle.
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    Default Re: The DMs guide to Pre-Game ambiguous RAW

    Quote Originally Posted by Totema View Post
    I'd argue otherwise, because the spell's description doesn't ask you to specify a target. By RAW (pg 204, under Targets) the spell description needs to actually mention a caster selecting a creature within range for the spell to effect. The range property itself doesn't mean anything.

    Spells like Magic Missile or Bless or what have you say that the spell's effects work on a creature within range, or a given number of creatures within range, whereas Cone of Cold and Thunderwave and et cetera make their effect on the area without technically targeting anything. If a creature would hypothetically be able to move out of the way as a reaction, the distinction becomes important; if it to moves out of the area of emanation from something like Cone of Cold as a reaction, the spell would still create the blast, whereas if it moves out of the range of something like Touch of Death, the spell would just fizzle.
    Page 202 clarifies that.
    RANGE
    The target of a spell must be within the spell’s range. For a spell like magic missile, the target is a creature. For a spell like fireball, the target is the point in space where the ball of fire erupts.
    Page 204 also has this:
    TARGETS
    A typical spell requires you to pick one or more targets to be affected by the spell’s magic. A spell's description tells you whether the spell targets creatures, objects, or a point of origin for an area of effect (described below).
    AREAS OF EFFECT
    [...]
    A spell’s description specifies its area of effect, which typically has one of five different shapes: cone, cube, cylinder, line, or sphere. Every area of effect has
    a point of origin, a location from which the spell’s energy erupts. The rules for each shape specify how you position its point of origin. Typically, a point of origin is a point in space, but some spells have an area whose origin is a creature or an object.
    CONE
    [...]
    A cone’s point of origin is not included in the cone’s area of effect, unless you decide otherwise.
    (emphasis mine)

    It's drown-healing level of dumb RAW, and you probably shouldn't allow Find Steed and its ilk to be able to be used that way, but it's RAW.
    Just remember that you're under no obligation to allow the rules-as-written in your game. I'm personally going to allow short interruptions in short rests and probably ban most casters, for instance. Arcane Trickster+Eldritch Knight+Paladin+Ranger+Warlock is more than enough, I find.

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    Default Re: The DMs guide to Pre-Game ambiguous RAW

    I wish people would not argue for rules interpretations that they, as a DM, would never allow; nor, as a player, ask their DM to accept. If you know it's not going to be used at your table, why do you waste bytes defending it? #rantoff

    Nominee:
    Chill Touch says the target
    cannot regain HP
    . Does this mean that if you apply CT to a someone:
    1. The half orc or barbarian with the "reduced to zero HP, return to one HP" feature is instead reduced to zero? That is, did you go to zero, and then regain a HP, or did you get reduced to one instead of to zero? CT would preclude the former and shut down this feature
    2. The wild-shaping druid gets the HP of the new form. If the new form has more HP than the druid, is that regaining HP? Should the new form have the lesser of [form HP, druid HP]? This means CT may be able to shut down the onion Druid ...
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    Default Re: The DMs guide to Pre-Game ambiguous RAW

    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini476 View Post
    Page 202 clarifies that.

    Page 204 also has this:

    ....

    ....

    ....

    (emphasis mine)

    It's drown-healing level of dumb RAW, and you probably shouldn't allow Find Steed and its ilk to be able to be used that way, but it's RAW.
    Thanks man, good explanation.
    Last edited by Vowtz; 2014-09-15 at 11:03 AM.

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    Default Re: The DMs guide to Pre-Game ambiguous RAW

    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini476 View Post
    Page 202 clarifies that.

    Page 204 also has this:



    (emphasis mine)

    It's drown-healing level of dumb RAW, and you probably shouldn't allow Find Steed and its ilk to be able to be used that way, but it's RAW.
    Just remember that you're under no obligation to allow the rules-as-written in your game. I'm personally going to allow short interruptions in short rests and probably ban most casters, for instance. Arcane Trickster+Eldritch Knight+Paladin+Ranger+Warlock is more than enough, I find.
    That's a pretty good explanation for it as well. I may un strike through the Find Steed shenanigans. I personally disagree with it interacting that way, so maybe I let my bias slip in, but it seems there can be an argument for it RAW as well, so by nature of us being split on it I'm going to put it back on the table. At the very least, it's something DMs should be aware of, and that's really the intention of this thread at it's core.

    Also, nice call on the Chill Touch. :)

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    Default Re: The DMs guide to Pre-Game ambiguous RAW

    Quote Originally Posted by Shining Wrath View Post
    I wish people would not argue for rules interpretations that they, as a DM, would never allow; nor, as a player, ask their DM to accept. If you know it's not going to be used at your table, why do you waste bytes defending it? #rantoff
    Oh, the reason for that is pretty simple. The only thing that everyone has in common is the rules as written, so making sure that you know what they are makes discussing the game with everyone else lots simpler.

    This is because of houserules, naturally. You need to clarify any houserules that you are using before being able to discuss the matter properly with anyone else - if I argue that the Warlock is the best class in the game, for instance, but only do so because I've banned all of the other full casters? I'll need to clarify that. If I argue that the Tarrasque is actually really difficult to kill, because I've given it immortality and ways to actually hurt someone flying above it pelting it with cantrips? I'll need to clarify that. If I walk into someone's discussion of how the Barbarian is a bit underpowered and argue that it isn't, because I let the eagle totem give them proper flight rather than high-jumps? I'll need to clarify that.

    RAW is what binds us together, so making sure that we know what is and isn't RAW helps a bunch. Even if - especially if - said RAW is illogical and dumb. Because then you can warn DMs away from it so that they don't have to make snap judgements in play or get into arguments re:RAW legality at the table. In 3.5 the big examples of dumb RAW I'd give are drown-healing, the Monk's (non)proficiency in Unarmed Strikes, and Multiclass XP Penalties. The drowning rules in particular, since they're completely and utterly broken and need heavy DM fiat. That's the kind of stuff you need to be aware of as a DM before the game, so that you can make informed decisions in play. Because it will come up, given enough time. All it takes for Find Steed is for a Bard to decide that he'd like to use some unconventional spell that targets himself like Magic Jar or Cone of Cold rather than Fly or whatever. A DM should ideally not be caught unaware when such a situation arises, and the Bard says "I cast Magic Jar on myself and my steed, and the BBEG needs to make two Charisma saves or be possessed by either me or my horse."
    Last edited by Gemini476; 2014-09-15 at 11:12 AM.

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    Default Re: The DMs guide to Pre-Game ambiguous RAW

    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini476 View Post
    Oh, the reason for that is pretty simple. The only thing that everyone has in common is the rules as written, so making sure that you know what they are makes discussing the game with everyone else lots simpler.

    This is because of houserules, naturally. You need to clarify any houserules that you are using before being able to discuss the matter properly with anyone else - if I argue that the Warlock is the best class in the game, for instance, but only do so because I've banned all of the other full casters? I'll need to clarify that. If I argue that the Tarrasque is actually really difficult to kill, because I've given it immortality and ways to actually hurt someone flying above it pelting it with cantrips? I'll need to clarify that. If I walk into someone's discussion of how the Barbarian is a bit underpowered and argue that it isn't, because I let the eagle totem give them proper flight rather than high-jumps? I'll need to clarify that.

    RAW is what binds us together, so making sure that we know what is and isn't RAW helps a bunch. Even if - especially if - said RAW is illogical and dumb. Because then you can warn DMs away from it so that they don't have to make snap judgements in play or get into arguments re:RAW legality at the table. In 3.5 the big examples of dumb RAW I'd give are drown-healing, the Monk's (non)proficiency in Unarmed Strikes, and Multiclass XP Penalties. The drowning rules in particular, since they're completely and utterly broken and need heavy DM fiat. That's the kind of stuff you need to be aware of as a DM before the game, so that you can make informed decisions in play. Because it will come up, given enough time. All it takes for Find Steed is for a Bard to decide that he'd like to use some unconventional spell that targets himself like Magic Jar or Cone of Cold rather than Fly or whatever. A DM should ideally not be caught unaware when such a situation arises, and the Bard says "I cast Magic Jar on myself and my steed, and the BBEG needs to make two Charisma saves or be possessed by either me or my horse."
    If you were the Bard, would you try that? Because a lot of DMs would say "You just swapped minds with your horse" or something along those lines. It'd be a pretty high risk move if not pre-coordinated with the DM...
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    Default Re: The DMs guide to Pre-Game ambiguous RAW

    Quote Originally Posted by Shining Wrath View Post
    If you were the Bard, would you try that? Because a lot of DMs would say "You just swapped minds with your horse" or something along those lines. It'd be a pretty high risk move if not pre-coordinated with the DM...
    Why would you swap minds with your horse? That's not how the spell works at all - it just takes your soul and stuffs it in a gemstone or other valuable object, and then on the next turn (presumably) you can jump from your current container to any humanoid container within range. (And yes, if it were allowed then I'd certainly contemplate trying it. Getting off two save-or-loses in a single turn off a relatively uncommon save? That's worth it.

    Rather than attempting to nerf the combo, just ban it. Say "No, you can't do that. Do something else instead.". Don't say "Yes, but then everything goes horribly wrong! Haha, screw you for trying to mess with the rules in my presence."

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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: The DMs guide to Pre-Game ambiguous RAW

    Quote Originally Posted by Eslin View Post
    That's not the case though. Spells like cone of cold have a range of (self) 60ft - the spell targets you, then its effect is to create a 60ft cone from you. You share that with the mount, the mount creates a 60ft cone as well. It doesn't hit the horse, because 'a cone's point of origin is not included in the cone's area of effect, unless you decide otherwise'.

    I'm not advocating its use, since it is clearly just abusing poor wording and so shouldn't be allowed, but the fact remains that it is RAW legal.
    For those reading who like the idea of using your horse to boost spells, content yourself with spells like produce flame, communion, vampiric touch and magic jar that clearly work and aren't just RAW abuse.
    Emphasis is mine, this is something I've been trying to figure out...I assume you mean commune? as there is no communion spell, at least that I could find.

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    Default Re: The DMs guide to Pre-Game ambiguous RAW

    Spontaneous interjection.

    I updated the RAW questions this morning. Additionally I added a RAW questions answered by designers section, based on an article that floated around here.

    Finally, I'd like anyone who is posting a new question to link the thread we debate it in, if such a thread exists. I know when I was hearing about the Find Steed bit I was highly confused till I asked about it. It occurs to me now that, despite knowing it's an issue, the crossbow things or twinned spell things aren't inherently obvious ambiguities, so I'd like to post the reference thread to anyone interested.

    Thanks!

    Continue on!

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    Default Re: The DMs guide to Pre-Game ambiguous RAW

    Some of my questions, I see most are already there:



    (-) can a lightfoot halfling hide on friends mid combat.

    (-) Multiclass warlock invocations prerequisits are character levels or warlock levels?

    (-) Polearm master add strength mod to bonus attack?

    (-) Sentinel second ability, 5 feet or 10 feet?

    (-) Polearm master + reach, attack occur before or after movement?

    (-) Can I twin scorching rays.

    (-) Can I rage in heavy armor, without gaining rage following benefits?

    (-) If I use the help action to give advantage to an ally's attack, can I move away from this enemy on the same turn?

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    Default Re: The DMs guide to Pre-Game ambiguous RAW

    Quote Originally Posted by Corinath View Post
    Spontaneous interjection.

    I updated the RAW questions this morning. Additionally I added a RAW questions answered by designers section, based on an article that floated around here.

    Finally, I'd like anyone who is posting a new question to link the thread we debate it in, if such a thread exists. I know when I was hearing about the Find Steed bit I was highly confused till I asked about it. It occurs to me now that, despite knowing it's an issue, the crossbow things or twinned spell things aren't inherently obvious ambiguities, so I'd like to post the reference thread to anyone interested.

    Thanks!

    Continue on!
    Relating to number 7:
    7. The missiles in a Magic Missile strike simultaneously. This means the strikes count as a single source of damage for things like resistance and that 3 magic missiles striking a character at 0 HP does not count as 3 failed death saves. Your wizard must decide which missiles will hit which targets before you start tallying damage.
    Would this ruling extend to similar spells, like Scorching Ray, which fire multiple single-target attacks? I mean Scorching Ray requires an attack roll for each ray, but otherwise pretty much the same concerns apply.

    Personally I would rule that yes, they all strike simultaneously and count as a single damage source for all the same purposes as Magic Missile.

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    Default Re: The DMs guide to Pre-Game ambiguous RAW

    Quote Originally Posted by Graustein View Post
    Relating to number 7:
    Would this ruling extend to similar spells, like Scorching Ray, which fire multiple single-target attacks? I mean Scorching Ray requires an attack roll for each ray, but otherwise pretty much the same concerns apply.

    Personally I would rule that yes, they all strike simultaneously and count as a single damage source for all the same purposes as Magic Missile.
    According to Mearls, each attack requiring a separate attack roll is treated separately, via twitter.
    You're free to rule however you want, but you're going to screw warlocks over with that ruling.

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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: The DMs guide to Pre-Game ambiguous RAW

    Quote Originally Posted by Vowtz View Post
    (-) Polearm master add strength mod to bonus attack?
    I would say yes, as well as the bonus attack from Crossbow Expert.

    Adding your modifier to the attack and damage roll is the norm. Two-Weapon Fighting is the exception.

    If Polearm Master or Crossbow Expert were intended to act like Two-Weapon Fighting, it would reference it like the Dual Wielder feat does.

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    Default Re: The DMs guide to Pre-Game ambiguous RAW

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
    According to Mearls, each attack requiring a separate attack roll is treated separately, via twitter.
    You're free to rule however you want, but you're going to screw warlocks over with that ruling.
    Hmm, ok, I'll bow to the explicitly-stated RAI (such as there is) for the most part, I just thought it was something we might as well mention for this thread (:

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