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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Flumph

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    Nov 2010

    Default Minor Conjuration: Use and Abuse.

    Minor Conjuration is a class feature in the PHB, available to Conjurer Wizards (wizards who choose the "School of Conjuration" tradition) at 2nd level. The power is quite open-ended, and if I remember anything from my 3.X days, it's that open-ended powers can be quite powerful and fun.

    Since I'm too scared to post an exact copy-paste of the ability, I'll list some relevant highlights:
    • Conjures one object.
    • The object must take the form of a non-magical item which the wizard has seen before.
    • The object is "visibly magical".
    • The object radiates dim light to 5ft.
    • The object's weight cannot exceed 10 pounds.
    • The object's dimensions must not exceed 3 feet on a side.
    • The object must be inanimate.
    • Takes one action to use.
    • Must be summoned into the wizard's hand, or onto the ground in a visible unoccupied space up to 10ft away.
    • Disappears after 1 hour.
    • Disappears if it takes damage, or if the wizard uses this ability again.
    • At-will, no usage limitation or resource expenditure.


    What can we do with this? Broken or benign, utilitarian or useless, amusing or amazing: Anything you can think of. I have some ideas of my own, and I may post them later, but for now I want to see what you folks come up with.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2014

    Default Re: Minor Conjuration: Use and Abuse.

    If the Wizard only has to see something once to perfectly duplicate it (even without studying it carefully), here are a few things that work.

    - A Map
    - A Secret letter (he can look at it once, destroy the original and then when he gets to the location to give it, use Minor Conjuration to reproduce it, no chance of it getting stolen)
    - A Key (Get out of Jail, into homes)
    - A Small Boat (Ok, more like a plank of light wood to hold onto in the water but still)
    - A Sled!
    - Food/water ( but he gets hungry again an hour later )
    - Most Artisan Tools
    - Glowing Cloths (he can be a fashion thief!)
    Depending on the definition of 'takes damage' then a weapon or even armor (since they never 'take damage' when you are using them in combat, DM call though)
    Last edited by hawklost; 2014-09-16 at 11:32 AM.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Seattle, USA
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    Default Re: Minor Conjuration: Use and Abuse.

    Quote Originally Posted by hawklost View Post
    If the Wizard only has to see something once to perfectly duplicate it (even without studying it carefully), here are a few things that work.

    - A Map
    - A Secret letter (he can look at it once, destroy the original and then when he gets to the location to give it, use Minor Conjuration to reproduce it, no chance of it getting stolen)
    - A Key (Get out of Jail, into homes)
    - A Small Boat (Ok, more like a plank of light wood to hold onto in the water but still)
    - A Sled!
    - Food/water ( but he gets hungry again an hour later )
    - Most Artisan Tools
    - Glowing Cloths (he can be a fashion thief!)
    Depending on the definition of 'takes damage' then a weapon or even armor (since they never 'take damage' when you are using them in combat, DM call though)
    It never says anything about the object being a perfect replica, and it's doubtful it could make a map or document with words you haven't read.
    "Sometimes, were heroes. Sometimes, we shoot other people right in the face for money."

    -Shadowrun 4e, Runner's Companion

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    Graustein's Avatar

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    Berlin

    Default Re: Minor Conjuration: Use and Abuse.

    I think with a suitable (possibly high) Int check after having studied it long enough, a Wizard should be able to reproduce a map or secret letter or the like, although if it's a message they could probably just memorise it anyway? And I'd say Minor Illusion can probably do a similar thing. Such a usage would make the Keen Mind feat extremely useful, though.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Goblin

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    Mar 2013
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    South Carolina
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    Default Re: Minor Conjuration: Use and Abuse.

    Any Poison
    Any Alchemical Item

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Orc in the Playground
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    Sep 2006
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    Default Re: Minor Conjuration: Use and Abuse.

    A "magical" gold ring for scamming people.

    Pretty much anything in the PHB. Summon a rope, a cup, etc.

    Use to set a trap, cause the object to disappear and the trap goes off (hook holding something heavy up, part of the floor disappears into a pit etc).

    Summon clothing on top of what you were wearing before, commit a crime, turn the corner, and will it to cease to exist.

    Use it to pass messages (create magical ink, write a message with it and it is gone within the hour).

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ogre in the Playground
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    United States
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    Default Re: Minor Conjuration: Use and Abuse.

    Conjure a boulder that sits on a steep incline above your enemies.

    Conjure caltrops.

    Conjure poison inside someone's muffin.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Scirocco's Avatar

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    PNW

    Default Re: Minor Conjuration: Use and Abuse.

    Does it say anything about the value of the conjured item? If not you could use it for spell components.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Minor Conjuration: Use and Abuse.

    Quote Originally Posted by EvilAnagram View Post
    Conjure a boulder that sits on a steep incline above your enemies.

    Conjure caltrops.

    Conjure poison inside someone's muffin.
    Caltrops are many items, not one.
    "Sometimes, were heroes. Sometimes, we shoot other people right in the face for money."

    -Shadowrun 4e, Runner's Companion

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Devil

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    Aug 2013

    tongue Re: Minor Conjuration: Use and Abuse.

    Agree with the others; powerful mundane substances (including components) are the best use for this. But if I were the DM, I'd require a knowledge check to get the elemental composition right (easy for wood or stone, very difficult for unusual chemicals).

    Quote Originally Posted by EvilAnagram View Post
    Conjure a boulder that sits on a steep incline above your enemies.
    A 10 pound rock, in your hand or sitting in front of you.
    Conjure caltrops.
    A single caltrop, instantly spotted because it's glowing with light.
    Conjure poison inside someone's muffin.
    Aaaand the trifecta! Zero for three on reading the description.
    Last edited by foobar1969; 2014-09-16 at 02:19 PM.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Sep 2014

    Default Re: Minor Conjuration: Use and Abuse.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOOB View Post
    Caltrops are many items, not one.
    Conjure a caltrop inside someone's muffin.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Mr.Moron's Avatar

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    Oct 2007

    Default Re: Minor Conjuration: Use and Abuse.

    Conjure the juiciest, yummiest brain ever to distract that pesky Intellect Devourer everyone is flialing about over.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Sep 2014

    Default Re: Minor Conjuration: Use and Abuse.

    Quote Originally Posted by hawklost View Post
    If the Wizard only has to see something once to perfectly duplicate it (even without studying it carefully), here are a few things that work.

    - A Map
    - A Secret letter (he can look at it once, destroy the original and then when he gets to the location to give it, use Minor Conjuration to reproduce it, no chance of it getting stolen)
    - A Key (Get out of Jail, into homes)
    See, this kind of scenario breaking stuff would have to be limited.

    As a DM, I'd say, to conjure anything complex like an entire map or letter or the grooves of a key that can actually be useful, I'd say they would had to have been previously memorized by the caster, and that'd be at least a DC 10-15 (maybe even more depending on complexity and importance of item) intellect check to memorize them in the first place, when they had the real thing in hand.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Minor Conjuration: Use and Abuse.

    Quote Originally Posted by squashmaster View Post
    See, this kind of scenario breaking stuff would have to be limited.

    As a DM, I'd say, to conjure anything complex like an entire map or letter or the grooves of a key that can actually be useful, I'd say they would had to have been previously memorized by the caster, and that'd be at least a DC 10-15 (maybe even more depending on complexity and importance of item) intellect check to memorize them in the first place, when they had the real thing in hand.
    I think it's fair to say that if the character can't visualize the object in their head, they can't create it.
    "Sometimes, were heroes. Sometimes, we shoot other people right in the face for money."

    -Shadowrun 4e, Runner's Companion

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Sep 2014

    Default Re: Minor Conjuration: Use and Abuse.

    Quote Originally Posted by hawklost View Post
    If the Wizard only has to see something once to perfectly duplicate it (even without studying it carefully), here are a few things that work.

    - A Map
    - A Secret letter (he can look at it once, destroy the original and then when he gets to the location to give it, use Minor Conjuration to reproduce it, no chance of it getting stolen)
    - A Key (Get out of Jail, into homes)
    - A Small Boat (Ok, more like a plank of light wood to hold onto in the water but still)
    - A Sled!
    - Food/water ( but he gets hungry again an hour later )
    - Most Artisan Tools
    - Glowing Cloths (he can be a fashion thief!)
    Depending on the definition of 'takes damage' then a weapon or even armor (since they never 'take damage' when you are using them in combat, DM call though)
    Most sets of tools would constitute many individual items. I guess it would depend on how the DM ruled it but along the same lines you could say something like "I conjure a dungeoneering pack" and that also wouldn't technically fall into the spirit or the RAW of the ability.

    The best thing I've seen so far is the key. The DM might rule that each key is different in such detailed ways that this wouldn't work for a specific key, though I don't know if anything like that is mentioned in RAW. Realism wise it doesn't make sense that you would be able to exactly replicate a specific key unless you had some kind of special knowledge or experience related to key making.

    You could also conjure like a ring and the fact that it was glowing magical would make it seem valuable to someone not familiar with the conjuration discipline.

    If I were DM'ing my response to anyone trying to pawn off conjured goods would be:

    NPC: "I used to be a conjurer like you, before I took an arrow to the knee"

    Even though it's abuse able, technically it's reasonable to think you could rip people off with conjured items, so it's up to your DM if he favors realism or balance in his games.

    Maybe he wouldn't let you sell it, but he would let you use it as a bartering tool as a creative way to obtain something specific to your quest from an NPC. Like trading it to a goblin for information about upcoming traps for example.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Flumph

    Join Date
    Nov 2010

    Default Re: Minor Conjuration: Use and Abuse.

    What do we think about creating a weapon? It would be magical ("the object is visibly magical"). Would you agree that those two qualities (being a weapon, and being magical) make it a magical weapon?

    Quote Originally Posted by squashmaster View Post
    As a DM, I'd say, to conjure anything complex like an entire map or letter or the grooves of a key that can actually be useful, I'd say they would had to have been previously memorized by the caster, and that'd be at least a DC 10-15 (maybe even more depending on complexity and importance of item) intellect check to memorize them in the first place, when they had the real thing in hand.
    Quote Originally Posted by Simian View Post
    The best thing I've seen so far is the key. The DM might rule that each key is different in such detailed ways that this wouldn't work for a specific key, though I don't know if anything like that is mentioned in RAW. Realism wise it doesn't make sense that you would be able to exactly replicate a specific key unless you had some kind of special knowledge or experience related to key making.
    So what would you say about Graustein's suggestion, that the Keen Mind feat could allow a wizard to, by RAI, accurately replicate keys and maps?

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Orc in the Playground
     
    BlueKnightGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2012

    Default Re: Minor Conjuration: Use and Abuse.

    Quote Originally Posted by squashmaster View Post
    See, this kind of scenario breaking stuff would have to be limited.

    As a DM, I'd say, to conjure anything complex like an entire map or letter or the grooves of a key that can actually be useful, I'd say they would had to have been previously memorized by the caster, and that'd be at least a DC 10-15 (maybe even more depending on complexity and importance of item) intellect check to memorize them in the first place, when they had the real thing in hand.
    Gamist perspective: The more important an item is, the higher the DC should be. It's really helpful.

    Simulationist perspective: The more important the item is (when it's seen), the lower the DC should be. The Wizard was really paying attention.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Minor Conjuration: Use and Abuse.

    Quote Originally Posted by foobar1969 View Post
    Agree with the others; powerful mundane substances (including components) are the best use for this. But if I were the DM, I'd require a knowledge check to get the elemental composition right (easy for wood or stone, very difficult for unusual chemicals).


    A 10 pound rock, in your hand or sitting in front of you.

    A single caltrop, instantly spotted because it's glowing with light.

    Aaaand the trifecta! Zero for three on reading the description.
    Oh noes! I forgot that this was supr serius bzness! Wow is me!

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Sep 2014

    Default Re: Minor Conjuration: Use and Abuse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slipperychicken View Post
    What do we think about creating a weapon? It would be magical ("the object is visibly magical"). Would you agree that those two qualities (being a weapon, and being magical) make it a magical weapon?
    I'd say sure, but not one that has a +1 bonus and certainly not a very good one, it being under 10 pounds or under. But okay, conjure a dagger or quarterstaff that you can use against a monster that has nonmagical resistance or immunity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slipperychicken View Post
    So what would you say about Graustein's suggestion, that the Keen Mind feat could allow a wizard to, by RAI, accurately replicate keys and maps?
    Can't exactly remember Keen Mind, don't have PHB in front of me, but sure, maybe, if they wanna blow a feat on Keen Mind. Feats are precious in 5e, why not let players take advantage of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oscredwin
    Gamist perspective: The more important an item is, the higher the DC should be. It's really helpful.

    Simulationist perspective: The more important the item is (when it's seen), the lower the DC should be. The Wizard was really paying attention.
    Trudat.

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Goblin

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    Dallas
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    Default Re: Minor Conjuration: Use and Abuse.

    Piton to stop up the door (wedge it shut)

    Depending on how the conjuration works, put your fingers next to the lock, and let the key form INSIDE the lock, to assure its teeth match.

    Pole for crossing pits

    Arrow (cause no one cares if its good or not)

    very flimsy Chair for being lazy

    Any object for the purposes of the 5' light. Easier to hide when looking at secret documents (think mini flashlight) in the dark

    Shell game with a vanishing ball.

    Does anyone know if the conjured object can be inflated? If so, it has all sorts of applications then.
    Shhh, shhhh, It's Magic hunny. Space magic.

    http://imgur.com/gallery/lsOa0Lr

    Quote Originally Posted by EasyLee
    Archer 1: "I cast darkness, but I have devil's sight so it won't affect me."
    Archer 2: "I lay flat on my back. Your move, creep."

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2014

    Default Re: Minor Conjuration: Use and Abuse.

    I honestly can't think of anything which might be abusive.

    The fact it glows... means you can't make anything of value and scam someone. Maybe a glowing dagger and pretend it is magical... but IMO, anyone able to purchase magical weapons would know that trick.

    Making mundane items is... mundane. A rope, sack, saddle, clothing, etc. is pretty tame and temporary. Even making material components is pretty limited as it only lasts an hour or as soon as you use it again. Material components (even if you don't have an arcane focus) are pretty much free, so cost savings and weight aren't critical. As best, maybe it works if you are thrown in a cell or something. It can't be used as armor and likely weapons (destroyed upon taking damage).

    About the only likely use is as free temporary equipment without having to carry it, smuggling something into places, etc. However, presumably a large pack or mule can typically carry all the equipment you could dream of.

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Flumph

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    Nov 2010

    Default Re: Minor Conjuration: Use and Abuse.

    Quote Originally Posted by BW022 View Post
    Even making material components is pretty limited as it only lasts an hour or as soon as you use it again. Material components (even if you don't have an arcane focus) are pretty much free, so cost savings and weight aren't critical.
    One of the uses I had thought of before was to create arbitrarily-expensive diamonds and other material components, to allow for free resurrections, shapechanges, and other such spells.

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Ettin in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2008

    Default Re: Minor Conjuration: Use and Abuse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slipperychicken View Post
    One of the uses I had thought of before was to create arbitrarily-expensive diamonds and other material components, to allow for free resurrections, shapechanges, and other such spells.
    This is by far the best use of this ability.

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Banned
     
    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: Minor Conjuration: Use and Abuse.

    Conjure ten pounds of the sun. The wizard has definitely seen the sun before, now you have 4.5 pounds of super dense hydrogen at 15 million degrees, which would be about 27 cubic centimetres.

    Obviously the wizard won't survive the ensuing explosion, but nor will anything else in the vicinity.

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Flumph

    Join Date
    Nov 2010

    Default Re: Minor Conjuration: Use and Abuse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eslin View Post
    Conjure ten pounds of the sun. The wizard has definitely seen the sun before, now you have 4.5 pounds of super dense hydrogen at 15 million degrees, which would be about 27 cubic centimetres.

    Obviously the wizard won't survive the ensuing explosion, but nor will anything else in the vicinity.
    He could always Contingency* an Otiluke's Resilient Sphere to protect him from the blast. That requires him to be level 11 (to have access to 5th level spells), but it would be an excellent trick to nuke an area.


    *(trigger: "Immediately after I use the minor conjuration class feature to conjure ten pounds of the sun")

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Devil

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    Aug 2013

    cool Re: Minor Conjuration: Use and Abuse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eslin View Post
    Conjure ten pounds of the sun. The wizard has definitely seen the sun before, now you have 4.5 pounds of super dense hydrogen at 15 million degrees, which would be about 27 cubic centimetres.
    Super dense whaty-what? Everyone knows the Sun is a divine magical flaming chariot that flies across the sky, from one edge of the world to the other, then returns to the heavenly stable at night.

    Sheesh. Next you'll be claiming that the world is a sphere, or some other such nonsense.

    But if you're going to inject RW simulationism into the game, do it scientifically. That wizard has never seen the core of the sun, only the surface (photosphere), which is about 6000K and much less dense than air. A 3 foot cube of photosphere would give you about 200g (0.4 lbs) of hydrogen, which would immediately ignite, possibly doing a few points of fire damage to things in adjacent squares.

    Much better off conjuring 10 pounds (1.6 gallons) of flammable oil (or explosives, if the wizard has seen & understood such alchemy)
    Last edited by foobar1969; 2014-09-17 at 10:36 AM.

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Ettin in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2008

    Default Re: Minor Conjuration: Use and Abuse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eslin View Post
    Conjure ten pounds of the sun. The wizard has definitely seen the sun before, now you have 4.5 pounds of super dense hydrogen at 15 million degrees, which would be about 27 cubic centimetres.

    Obviously the wizard won't survive the ensuing explosion, but nor will anything else in the vicinity.
    Illusory Reality does it better.

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2014

    Default Re: Minor Conjuration: Use and Abuse.

    Quote Originally Posted by BW022 View Post
    Making mundane items is... mundane. A rope, sack, saddle, clothing, etc. is pretty tame and temporary. Even making material components is pretty limited as it only lasts an hour or as soon as you use it again. Material components (even if you don't have an arcane focus) are pretty much free, so cost savings and weight aren't critical. As best, maybe it works if you are thrown in a cell or something. It can't be used as armor and likely weapons (destroyed upon taking damage).
    Best thing I can think of is an Exotic Saddle for your druid buddy so that the Beastmaster Ranger can ride him and give him Evasion via Mounted Combatant. Convoluted, I know.

    I suggest that you think of Minor Conjuration as a scaled-up variant of Prestidigitation. All the things you want to do with Prestidigitation but can't because the items must fit in your hand and last for only six seconds--that's what you use Minor Conjuration for. Flavor and convenience, not optimizing killing power.

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Griffon

    Join Date
    Jul 2013

    Default Re: Minor Conjuration: Use and Abuse.

    You could use it to make some timed or remote explosives/poisons/other nasty things. I'm not a chemist, so I'll leave some of the exact formulae to someone else. But the basic idea is:

    -Start with something deadly.
    -Stabilize it with something you conjure.
    -Place it wherever.
    -It will explode/light on fire/become toxic/etc. after 1 hour, or when you use the ability again.

    One formula I do know:

    NaOH plus hydrochloric acid = saltwater. Start with a volume of hydrochloric acid. Conjure just enough NaOH to turn it into salt water. You can now turn it back into acid on command. I'm sure a creative player can find all sorts of uses for timed/remotely triggered acid charges.

    Etc. Etc.

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Orc in the Playground
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    Clearwater FL
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    Default Re: Minor Conjuration: Use and Abuse.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxWilson View Post
    Best thing I can think of is an Exotic Saddle for your druid buddy so that the Beastmaster Ranger can ride him and give him Evasion via Mounted Combatant. Convoluted, I know.

    I suggest that you think of Minor Conjuration as a scaled-up variant of Prestidigitation. All the things you want to do with Prestidigitation but can't because the items must fit in your hand and last for only six seconds--that's what you use Minor Conjuration for. Flavor and convenience, not optimizing killing power.
    I agree with this, If I was DMing I would't allow anyone to make anything Alchemical, no poisons, no potions, no foods, no spell components etc. The description says it takes the form of an object, not you summon that object.

    I picture this like having Green Lanterns Ring but only the diet coke version. The obviously magical and glowing line really sells this for me. I didn't actually make a Diamond that can be used for Revivify, I only have this green glowing creation that looks like a diamond.

    Applications I would allow this for, making a 1 handed weapon or a shield, making tools IE hammer, saw, wrench, axe, shovel, oar, crowbar making mundane items, hooks, pullys, wheels, chests, chairs, shelves, or some more creative options like manacles, spyglass, saddle, pots and pans when cooking on the road.
    Last edited by Ramshack; 2014-10-13 at 04:57 PM.

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