Support the GITP forums on Patreon
Help support GITP's forums (and ongoing server maintenance) via Patreon
Page 33 of 50 FirstFirst ... 8232425262728293031323334353637383940414243 ... LastLast
Results 961 to 990 of 1475
  1. - Top - End - #961
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    127.0.0.1
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules VI: Magic Circle Against Errata

    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini476 View Post
    (Also, if you suit up a commoner 1 in full platemail a cat still has an overly large chance to kill them right through the armor. All dog trainers across the world inevitably die to mortal wounds caused by the dogs in question rolling a crit and getting through those tough fabric bite suits. That's maybe more an issue in AC vs. DR, though.)
    And that's why I used the Armor as DR rules from Unearthed Arcana in my last campaign… then I dropped it because I kept forgetting to apply it to pre-rolled monsters when using published adventures/modules.
    Proud owner of: 0.36 0.43 0.99 2.00 Internet(s), 2 Win(s), and 3000 Brownie Point(s)

    Quote Originally Posted by Welknair View Post
    *Proceeds to google "Bride of the Portable Hole", jokingly wondering if it might exist*

    *It does.*

    What.

  2. - Top - End - #962
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Flickerdart's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    NYC
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules VI: Magic Circle Against Errata

    Quote Originally Posted by illyahr View Post
    Only if he has Combat Reflexes and, honestly, what heavy fighter has that? At best, he hits one target. That leaves the rest of the mob.
    He gets a guaranteed hit and kill every round, basically. Only 8 commoners can attempt at a time, meaning that they will need a lot of cannon fodder to manage to disarm and grapple him. Quite possibly more than the 200 you need for the dragon, although I've not done the math.
    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Greater
    \ˈgrā-tər \
    comparative adjective
    1. Describing basically the exact same monster but with twice the RHD.
    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

  3. - Top - End - #963
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Qwertystop's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules VI: Magic Circle Against Errata

    Full attacking might clear out several more each round, until they succeed in grappling him.
    Quote Originally Posted by jamieth View Post
    ...though Talla does her best to sound objective and impartial, it doesn't cover stuff like "ask a 9-year-old to tank for the party."
    My Homebrew

  4. - Top - End - #964
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules VI: Magic Circle Against Errata

    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    He gets a guaranteed hit and kill every round, basically. Only 8 commoners can attempt at a time, meaning that they will need a lot of cannon fodder to manage to disarm and grapple him. Quite possibly more than the 200 you need for the dragon, although I've not done the math.
    Quite possibly, a lot less than that.

    1. Grapple, AoO, dies
    2. Trip, success
    3. Grapple, success
    4. Disarm (can't attack with weapon so uses unarmed, -4 penalty on check, prone so another -4 vs. melee attack)

    Best case scenario, it'd only take 4 people.
    See my Extended Signature for my list of silly shenanigans.

    Anyone is welcome to use or critique my 3.5 Fighter homebrew: The Vanguard.

  5. - Top - End - #965
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    A world all my own

    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules VI: Magic Circle Against Errata

    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    He gets a guaranteed hit and kill every round, basically. Only 8 commoners can attempt at a time, meaning that they will need a lot of cannon fodder to manage to disarm and grapple him. Quite possibly more than the 200 you need for the dragon, although I've not done the math.
    You're assuming 1 per square and 2D combat, but they could squeeze for very little if any real loss and the commoners could be attacking him under a tree with commoners in the tree (I am assuming the commoners can get into the tree without much problem and are still able to attack) while he is crossing a low bridge with bridges next to it.
    With these, I believe it would cap at (8[same hight]+9[above]+6[between bridges])*4, or 92. With how many commoners we are having attacking a fighter, we can at least have them use some tactics.
    I reserve the right to be wrong and will use that right whenever it happens

    78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature.

  6. - Top - End - #966
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Flickerdart's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    NYC
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules VI: Magic Circle Against Errata

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightlawbliss View Post
    You're assuming 1 per square and 2D combat, but they could squeeze for very little if any real loss and the commoners could be attacking him under a tree with commoners in the tree (I am assuming the commoners can get into the tree without much problem and are still able to attack) while he is crossing a low bridge with bridges next to it.
    With these, I believe it would cap at (8[same hight]+9[above]+6[between bridges])*4, or 92. With how many commoners we are having attacking a fighter, we can at least have them use some tactics.
    When you have to get this contrived, you might want to step back and rethink the scenario.
    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Greater
    \ˈgrā-tər \
    comparative adjective
    1. Describing basically the exact same monster but with twice the RHD.
    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

  7. - Top - End - #967
    Ettin in the Playground
    Join Date
    Mar 2012

    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules VI: Magic Circle Against Errata

    Quote Originally Posted by illyahr View Post
    Quite possibly, a lot less than that.

    1. Grapple, AoO, dies
    2. Trip, success
    3. Grapple, success
    4. Disarm (can't attack with weapon so uses unarmed, -4 penalty on check, prone so another -4 vs. melee attack)

    Best case scenario, it'd only take 4 people.
    And how do you guarantee that 3 of the 4 roll succeed at the touch attack and the STR/Grapple check in the same round?

  8. - Top - End - #968
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules VI: Magic Circle Against Errata

    Quote Originally Posted by Andezzar View Post
    And how do you guarantee that 3 of the 4 roll succeed at the touch attack and the STR/Grapple check in the same round?
    I never said it was a sure thing, I just said it was the best case scenario. I was responding to the statement that it would require a lot of fodder and possibly more than 200. Level wasn't part of the original point so I'm assuming equal levels. In that case, it's quite possible to do it with 4 commoners.
    See my Extended Signature for my list of silly shenanigans.

    Anyone is welcome to use or critique my 3.5 Fighter homebrew: The Vanguard.

  9. - Top - End - #969
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Necroticplague's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2010

    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules VI: Magic Circle Against Errata

    Still doesn't quite work, at least in one round. Armor and shields are most likely considered to be well secured (since its physically strapped to you), so the person would need to be pinned, not just grappled. And they'd get a +4 to resist (nicely cancelling out the penalty from prone). And, depending on whether headers count as rules text, the disarmer would have to be the one doing the pinning (which would have...action economy difficulties, unless their BAB was at least+6. But if it was, this whole discussion would be moot anyway!)
    Last edited by Necroticplague; 2015-03-04 at 02:06 PM.
    Avatar by TinyMushroom.

  10. - Top - End - #970
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Nov 2008

    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules VI: Magic Circle Against Errata

    Quote Originally Posted by Andezzar View Post
    Nobody disputes that the natural 20/natural 1 rules do not reflect reality very well, but that does not make them dysfunctional. They work exactly as written. So they have no place in this thread.
    No. Natural 20 rule and Armor Class rule taken together are dysfunctional. Armor is supposed to protect you, making it harder to damage you - and natural 20 rule makes it fail to fulfill its purpose.

  11. - Top - End - #971
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules VI: Magic Circle Against Errata

    Quote Originally Posted by Necroticplague View Post
    Still doesn't quite work, at least in one round. Armor and shields are most likely considered to be well secured (since its physically strapped to you), so the person would need to be pinned, not just grappled. And they'd get a +4 to resist (nicely cancelling out the penalty from prone).
    Armor, sure. I'd think it would be up to the DM about shield. I don't think it would be any more difficult than the weapon since you can use a shield as a weapon.
    See my Extended Signature for my list of silly shenanigans.

    Anyone is welcome to use or critique my 3.5 Fighter homebrew: The Vanguard.

  12. - Top - End - #972
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Necroticplague's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2010

    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules VI: Magic Circle Against Errata

    Quote Originally Posted by illyahr View Post
    Armor, sure. I'd think it would be up to the DM about shield. I don't think it would be any more difficult than the weapon since you can use a shield as a weapon.
    Well, since we're talking about a random level 1 dude in armor, assuming no magic armor, then for his AC for be high enough for this to come up, the shield would have to be a tower shield, which can't be bashed with (or used for anything else, for that matter). But fair enough point.
    Avatar by TinyMushroom.

  13. - Top - End - #973
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Flickerdart's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    NYC
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules VI: Magic Circle Against Errata

    If he's using a tower shield, no commoners can touch him because of total cover, but that's its own well-known dysfunction.
    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Greater
    \ˈgrā-tər \
    comparative adjective
    1. Describing basically the exact same monster but with twice the RHD.
    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

  14. - Top - End - #974
    Ettin in the Playground
    Join Date
    Mar 2012

    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules VI: Magic Circle Against Errata

    Quote Originally Posted by SinsI View Post
    No. Natural 20 rule and Armor Class rule taken together are dysfunctional. Armor is supposed to protect you, making it harder to damage you - and natural 20 rule makes it fail to fulfill its purpose.
    You said it yourself, armor is supposed to make it harder to damage an armored opponent. The rules never claim that certain people are always incapable of damaging people that are armored well enough. This would not reflect reality well either. It is an abstraction. Armor is not one uniform hull of invulnerability. There are always gaps and even an unskilled fighter can find them. That no gap is harder to find than 5% of all attacks, is just as weird as certain people being unable to ever damage a sufficiently armored opponent.

    You may dislike how the rule works, but there is no doubt about it that the rule works as written. There is no ambiguity or contradiction what happens when a natural 20 is rolled. So the rule is not dysfunctional.

  15. - Top - End - #975
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Tula, Russia
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules VI: Magic Circle Against Errata

    Quote Originally Posted by Andezzar View Post
    If you removed the automatic hit on a 20, everyone with AC 21 or more would be immune to damage from commoners. That would be just as weird.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengand View Post
    Such as a chump with full plate and a big shield.
    Quote Originally Posted by SinsI View Post
    Armored knight vs commoners is a venue of Grapple, Flanking, Disarm and Sunder, from multiple opponents - he'll be quickly pinned down and stripped off all his worn equipment. Automatic hit on 20 doesn't do anything in that situation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    No he wouldn't - the commoners provoke AoOs whenever they try, meaning that they'll be dead before the odds tip in their favour.
    According to Cityscape, Mob of Humans is CR 8, have 135 hp, and deals 5d6 damage without any roll

    Quote Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
    I generally assume people try to cite rulebook content honestly in this forum, but it would appear that your reliability is lower than the average poster. I just checked, and Poison Dusk Lizardfolk are not Monstrous Humanoids, but rather Humanoids. They fall under the usual 1 HD Humanoid exchange rule, so there's no new discovery (in the rules, anyway) here.
    If you want example of no-racial-HD Monstrous Humanoid, Expanded Psionics Handbook have Dromites, which are of Monstrous Humanoid type
    Oh, and Muckdweller from the Serpent Kingdoms: ¼ HD - how you would calculate it?

  16. - Top - End - #976
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Flickerdart's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    NYC
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules VI: Magic Circle Against Errata

    Quote Originally Posted by ShurikVch View Post
    According to Cityscape, Mob of Humans is CR 8, have 135 hp, and deals 5d6 damage without any roll
    If you're using Mobs, then the example with the dragon doesn't hold true and there's no reason to remove the natural 20 = auto-hit rule, which is why we're looking at the armoured knight to start with.
    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Greater
    \ˈgrā-tər \
    comparative adjective
    1. Describing basically the exact same monster but with twice the RHD.
    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

  17. - Top - End - #977
    Ettin in the Playground
    Join Date
    Mar 2012

    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules VI: Magic Circle Against Errata

    Quote Originally Posted by ShurikVch View Post
    According to Cityscape, Mob of Humans is CR 8, have 135 hp, and deals 5d6 damage without any roll
    So? According to the rules a mob of humans is one Gargantuan Humanoid. So it follows different rules than a certain number of humans. Just like a swarm of rats follows different rules than a large number of rats. Again an abstraction that is not dysfunctional.

    Quote Originally Posted by ShurikVch View Post
    If you want example of no-racial-HD Monstrous Humanoid, Expanded Psionics Handbook have Dromites, which are of Monstrous Humanoid type
    A specific exception does not mean that a general rule exists.

  18. - Top - End - #978
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Israel
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules VI: Magic Circle Against Errata

    Quote Originally Posted by SinsI View Post
    No. Natural 20 rule and Armor Class rule taken together are dysfunctional. Armor is supposed to protect you, making it harder to damage you - and natural 20 rule makes it fail to fulfill its purpose.
    The armor is what makes it difficult and impossible to hit on anything but a 20 in the first place. Stacking more won't help in this case because the creature already needs that perfect shot to hit you. The perfect shot happens to be 5% of the time, because that's the system you are playing with. It's still not dysfunctional.

    Hey, if you want to continue talking about it, why not open a new thread?

  19. - Top - End - #979
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    OrcBarbarianGirl

    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Why am I here?

    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules VI: Magic Circle Against Errata

    Quote Originally Posted by Andezzar View Post
    /snip According to the rules a mob of humans is one Gargantuan Humanoid. So it follows different rules than a certain number of humans.
    The REAL dysfunction is that they can be bitten by a killer whale and all turn into one were-orca.
    Quote Originally Posted by Petrocorus View Post
    This thread, Questions that can't be answered... Answered by RAW by No brains, is Epic.
    Quote Originally Posted by illyahr View Post
    That is so stupid it's hilarious.
    Quote Originally Posted by georgie_leech View Post
    ...I've clearly been playing D&D for too long, because that made a demented kind of sense.
    Quote Originally Posted by that_one_kobold View Post
    And this is why I love D&D

  20. - Top - End - #980
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules VI: Magic Circle Against Errata

    Quote Originally Posted by No brains View Post
    The REAL dysfunction is that they can be bitten by a killer whale and all turn into one were-orca.
    That is so stupid it's hilarious.
    See my Extended Signature for my list of silly shenanigans.

    Anyone is welcome to use or critique my 3.5 Fighter homebrew: The Vanguard.

  21. - Top - End - #981
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Necroticplague's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2010

    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules VI: Magic Circle Against Errata

    Quote Originally Posted by No brains View Post
    The REAL dysfunction is that they can be bitten by a killer whale and all turn into one were-orca.
    Quote Originally Posted by illyahr View Post
    That is so stupid it's hilarious.
    "We are Orca. We are Many."
    Avatar by TinyMushroom.

  22. - Top - End - #982
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Nov 2008

    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules VI: Magic Circle Against Errata

    Quote Originally Posted by Sliver View Post
    The armor is what makes it difficult and impossible to hit on anything but a 20 in the first place. Stacking more won't help in this case because the creature already needs that perfect shot to hit you. The perfect shot happens to be 5% of the time, because that's the system you are playing with. It's still not dysfunctional.
    Not in this case. They have total attack penalty of -24 (-20 for range, -4 for nonproficiency), so opponent might as well be naked and paralyzed.
    Armor is supposed to protect you - but in this case it becomes completely irrelevant and thus dysfunctional.

  23. - Top - End - #983
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Israel
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules VI: Magic Circle Against Errata

    Quote Originally Posted by SinsI View Post
    Not in this case. They have total attack penalty of -24 (-20 for range, -4 for nonproficiency), so opponent might as well be naked and paralyzed.
    Armor is supposed to protect you - but in this case it becomes completely irrelevant and thus dysfunctional.
    Or you could not ignore the part that you didn't quote from my post and start a new thread.

  24. - Top - End - #984
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    A world all my own

    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules VI: Magic Circle Against Errata

    Quote Originally Posted by Sliver View Post
    Or you could not ignore the part that you didn't quote from my post and start a new thread.
    I second this suggestion.
    I reserve the right to be wrong and will use that right whenever it happens

    78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature.

  25. - Top - End - #985
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules VI: Magic Circle Against Errata

    Quote Originally Posted by Sliver View Post
    Or you could not ignore the part that you didn't quote from my post and start a new thread.
    +1. Moving on.
    See my Extended Signature for my list of silly shenanigans.

    Anyone is welcome to use or critique my 3.5 Fighter homebrew: The Vanguard.

  26. - Top - End - #986
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    DwarfBarbarianGuy

    Join Date
    Oct 2012

    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules VI: Magic Circle Against Errata

    A minor one, possibly:


    A casting glove allows you to store an item
    and make use of it without first retrieving
    it. It functions as a glove of storing (DMG
    257), allowing you to store or retrieve a
    single item within it as a free action...


    That first line is describing the item means that you can use any item without retrieving it, although it then goes on to point out that:

    In addition, once per round while
    wearing a casting glove, you can activate or
    consume a stored magic item as if you were
    holding it in your hand. The activation and
    all effects function just as normal for the
    item, and the activation requires the same
    type of action.


    This does not mention non-magical Items, although the first line says "An item"

    Grammatically, wouldn't this mean you could put something like say, a sword, and then use it without retrieving it? meaning: start waving gloved hand around and suddenly enemy takes sword damage.

    Seems like there might be some abusable possibilities if it's true, but I can't think of any off the top of my head.

  27. - Top - End - #987
    Halfling in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2012

    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules VI: Magic Circle Against Errata

    Sorry if this is elsewhere, but I couldn't find it.

    Reading through my copy of the PHB, I can't find anywhere that says clerics can cast domain spells. Page 32 continually mentions both prepare and cast when talking about cleric spells, but the section on domain spells only says that they have access to and can prepare. Nowhere does it add them to the cleric spell list (in fact, it makes a direct distinction) nor does it ever actually say they can be cast. So, by my reading, the domain slots may sit filled, but never usable.

  28. - Top - End - #988
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Flickerdart's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    NYC
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules VI: Magic Circle Against Errata

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie Pyro View Post
    A minor one, possibly:


    A casting glove allows you to store an item
    and make use of it without first retrieving
    it. It functions as a glove of storing (DMG
    257), allowing you to store or retrieve a
    single item within it as a free action...


    That first line is describing the item means that you can use any item without retrieving it, although it then goes on to point out that:

    In addition, once per round while
    wearing a casting glove, you can activate or
    consume a stored magic item as if you were
    holding it in your hand. The activation and
    all effects function just as normal for the
    item, and the activation requires the same
    type of action.


    This does not mention non-magical Items, although the first line says "An item"

    Grammatically, wouldn't this mean you could put something like say, a sword, and then use it without retrieving it? meaning: start waving gloved hand around and suddenly enemy takes sword damage.

    Seems like there might be some abusable possibilities if it's true, but I can't think of any off the top of my head.
    A sword is not a use-activated item.
    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Greater
    \ˈgrā-tər \
    comparative adjective
    1. Describing basically the exact same monster but with twice the RHD.
    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

  29. - Top - End - #989
    Titan in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Sunnydale

    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules VI: Magic Circle Against Errata

    Quote Originally Posted by Necrovosh View Post
    Reading through my copy of the PHB, I can't find anywhere that says clerics can cast domain spells. Page 32 continually mentions both prepare and cast when talking about cleric spells, but the section on domain spells only says that they have access to and can prepare. Nowhere does it add them to the cleric spell list (in fact, it makes a direct distinction) nor does it ever actually say they can be cast.
    Like other spellcasters, a cleric can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on Table: The Cleric. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Wisdom score. A cleric also gets one domain spell of each spell level he can cast, starting at 1st level.
    The leading sentence of the paragraph sets the context: the spells a Cleric can cast. When they "get" a domain spell, it's gotten for casting.

  30. - Top - End - #990
    Halfling in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2012

    Default Re: Dysfunctional Rules VI: Magic Circle Against Errata

    Quote Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
    The leading sentence of the paragraph sets the context: the spells a Cleric can cast. When they "get" a domain spell, it's gotten for casting.
    You're right, my sleep starved brain must have been too focused on the exact word "cast." I thought at the time it was super nit-picky, but also sort of funny that every other class specifies exactly which spells they can cast with the verb "cast," but clerics need that little bit of leeway.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •