Zombie/Skeleton Question

[kpenguin]

Okay, the SRD states that:

“Skeleton” is an acquired template that can be added to any corporeal creature (other than an undead) that has a skeletal system.

and that

“Zombie” is an acquired template that can be added to any corporeal creature (other than an undead) that has a skeletal system (referred to hereafter as the base creature).

Are exoskeletons considered a skeletal system for the purpose of animating skeletons or zombies?

[Kalessin]

I would think the exoskeleton applies to the zombie requirements, but not the skeleton. But just my 2 copper pieces.

[JackMage666]

Well, if you're thinking about re-animating Vermin, I don't see why it'd be a problem. Considering that they are already mindless and they'd lose most of their abilities (like Poison). I don't think a DM would have a problem with allowing you to re-animate vermin. Now, if you're talking about Formians or something like that, you may be a little bit more hard-pressed to get DM approval.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

The skeleton requirement is purely out-of-game fluff logic. If the DM feels an exoskeleton suffices for the purposes of his or her adventure or campaign, it suffices.

This is definitely a time when a the rules are no more than a loose guideline.

[Fixer]

As a DM I would allow the exoskeleton of a vermin to operate as either the zombie or skeleton prerequisite. (Although I assign a timeframe on 'zombie freshness' to being dead less than four days.)

[Closet_Skeleton]

(Although I assign a timeframe on 'zombie freshness' to being dead less than four days.)

Doesn't really work since decomposition is so dependent on the environment.

[Assassinfox]

The Burn World of Athas has some nice templates for "bugdead" including one for exoskeletons.

http://www.athas.org/releases/totdl/

[daggaz]

Its gotta have a skeletal system? Easy, there are two kinds of skeletal systems: Exoskeletons and Endoskeletons. Hence the 'skeleton' suffix. So yeah, using medical definitions of the terms used in the rules, an arthropod or similiar creature would suffice just fine. (fluff wise this would look cool too, a hollowed out shell that hunts you relentlessly..whats the big problem?).

[Fixer]

Doesn't really work since decomposition is so dependent on the environment.

Oh don't be so technical. :P

I use it as a rule of thumb for my players.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

You should develop differing templates based on state and nature of decomposition. That would be cool.

[kpenguin]

Hey, do mindflayers have skeletons? What about beholders? Mindflayers are based off squids, so I assume not.

[Assassinfox]

Mindflayers reproduce by infesting human bodies and keep the same basic internal organs, so I assume they also keep the basic skeleton.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

Beholders do have a skeletal structure.

At least they did in 2e. Don't know what Lords of Madness has to say about that.

[Quietus]

I know they detailed a beholder's internal structure, but I was reading over a friend's shoulder while playing a game at the time, so I don't remember what they said about skeletons. Though they did explain why beholders drool all the time... gross.

[Sturmjaeger]

Why is that? No table manners?

[Quietus]

Well basically, what happens is they eat whatever it is they eat, which then gets put into their stomach. Unfortunately, there is no "exit" to the stomach, and as such, anything that they can't put to use gets sent back out the same way it went in. That drool that always drips from a beholder's mouth is essentially the bits of stuff they couldn't use as food - it's their bodily wastes.