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    Default Incarnum Barbarian Subclass

    So Amnoriath gave me the idea of a more primal path for the barbarian with the idea of attuning features and such and that made me think of Incarnum from the Magic of Incarnum Splat book and this is what I came up with.

    Essentia is invested into soulmelds and class features and the amount available and the max amount of essential that you can invest into a soulmeld is determined by the tables below.
    Soulmelds is the coalescing of the spirit energy imprinted with the sensations of the dead focused into semi-physical forms so that they can be equipped like magic items. Soulmelds usually take one Action to form and some have a minimum amount of Essentia that can be invested into them. They can be disrupted due to a loss of concentration or dispelled such as with Dispel Magic, in this case they have an effective spell level of (Amount of Essentia Invested) but concentration checks to keep them are rolled with an Advantage and DC’s to disrupt them are done with a Disadvantage. If a soulmeld is ended then the essential invested is lost till the character takes a short/long rest and restores it in full.

    Totem Rager → Barbarian Primal Path
    This Subclass can prepare Con Mod of soulmelds a day after a long rest and can attune any number of them to the normal maximum number of magical items attuned (normally 3) after a short/long rest or have one focused on the mind as a Concentration Spell. Most Soulmelds take only an action to form. The soulmelds are prepared from the entire list.

    3rd Level
    Essentia Pool
    Meld DC are 8 + Prof. Bonus + Con Mod.
    Aspect of the Beast
    Your training and spiritual connection gives you a direct connection to predator spirits, hardening your nails as you file them into points. Your jaw strengthens and your canines become more pronounced.
    After attuning this to your body your fingers lengthen and you grow tough fur or scales around your hands and your head has a ghostly outline of a beast with many teeth. This can be hidden as a free action but you don’t benefit from the benefits of attunement until you reveal them as a bonus action.
    Your Unarmed Strikes becomes a Claw Attack with damage listed below in the table. You can make additional attacks as normal with your claws as your weapon
    Gain a Bite Attack of 1 die size larger than the 2Claws attack
    You can use the Bite Attack as a bonus action with a successful Claw attack or if you successfully grapple an enemy or continue a grapple
    You can invest incarnum into your class feature as a soulmeld
    2 Points – treat your claws and bite as a +1 magic weapon; if you attune this meld you gain pounce with a DC of 8 + Prof Bonus + Con Mod.
    4 Points – treat your claws and bite as a +2 magic weapon; if you attune this meld you gain pounce with a DC of 8 + Prof Bonus + Con Mod. You gain Improved Critical (Crit on 19-20)
    6 Points – treat your claws and bite as a +3 magic weapon; if you attune this meld you gain pounce with a DC of 8 + Prof Bonus + Con Mod. You gain Superior Critical (Crit on 18-20)

    6th Level
    Ancestors Rage – You can invest Essentia into this class feature to increase the additional damage you do while raging as an Action. For every point of Essentia you invest into this feature you gain +1 Rage Damage. Essentia invested into this feature remain here till you finish a long rest or become unconscious.

    10th Level
    Something Else

    14th Level
    Totem Chakra – gain one more attunement slot that can only be used on a soulmeld


    Max Invested Essentia
    [center]
    Character Levels Maximum Essentia for the Soulmeld
    3rd – 4th 2
    5th – 8th 3
    9th – 12th 4
    13th – 16th 5
    17th – 20th 6
    Level 2 Claws Bite Essentia Pool
    3 1d4 1d6 3
    4 1d4 1d6 4
    5 1d6 1d8 5
    6 1d6 1d8 6
    7 1d6 1d8 7
    8 1d6 1d8 8
    9 1d6 1d8 9
    10 1d8 1d10 10
    11 1d8 1d10 11
    12 1d8 1d10 12
    13 1d8 1d10 13
    14 1d8 1d10 14
    15 1d8 1d10 15
    16 1d8 1d10 16
    17 1d10 1d12 17
    18 1d10 1d12 18
    19 1d10 1d12 19
    20 1d10 1d12 20

    However, i don't know what to put down for Melds, for 6th and 10th level path features and whether or not the Aspect of the Beast is overpowered or not.
    I figured since its like being able to cast magic weapon with the usual concentration rules it would be ok to add the additional features with the use of an attunement slot

    Spoiler: what i had wrote
    Show
    So Amnoriath gave me the idea of a more primal path for the barbarian with the idea of attuning features and such and that made me think of Incarnum from the Magic of Incarnum Splat book and this is what I came up with.

    Totem Rager → Barbarian Primal Path
    Reason: Incarnum Path for *blank* and giggles
    Gain a pool of Essentia Points that use the same structure as the Monk Ki Pool
    When you invest more into your melds then use the Monk Elemental Ki Point Spending Rules on Page 80 of the PHB
    Incarnum is invested into melds that can be concentrated on like spells (so 1 unattuned meld at a time) and can be attuned like magic items to get around Concentration limitations
    Melds can be Dispelled one at a time with a spell level equal to the amount of incarnum invested into them. These points return to your pool after one round

    3rd Level
    Essentia Pool
    Meld DC are 8 + Prof. Bonus + Con Mod.
    Aspect of the Beast
    Your training and spiritual connection gives you a direct connection to predator spirits, hardening your nails as you file them into points. Your jaw strengthens and your canines become more pronounced.
    After attuning this to your body your fingers lengthen and you grow tough fur or scales around your hands and your head has a ghostly outline of a beast with many teeth. This can be hidden as a free action but you don’t benefit from the benefits of attunement until you reveal them as a bonus action.
    Gain a 2Claws Weapon Melee attack with damage the same as the Martial Arts damage progression of the Monk
    Gain a Bite Attack of 1 die size larger than the 2Claws attack
    You can use the Bite Attack as a bonus action with a successful 2Claws attack or if you successfully grapple an enemy or continue a grapple
    You can invest incarnum into your class feature as a soulmeld
    2 Points – treat your claws and bite as a +1 magic weapon; if you attune this meld you gain pounce with a DC of 8 + Prof Bonus + Con Mod.
    4 Points – treat your claws and bite as a +2 magic weapon; if you attune this meld you gain pounce with a DC of 8 + Prof Bonus + Con Mod. You gain Improved Critical (Crit on 19-20)
    6 Points – treat your claws and bite as a +3 magic weapon; if you attune this meld you gain pounce with a DC of 8 + Prof Bonus + Con Mod. You gain Superior Critical (Crit on 18-20)

    6th Level
    Something

    10th Level
    Something Else

    14th Level
    Totem Chakra – gain one more attunement slot that can only be used on a soulmeld


    Max Invested Essentia
    [center]
    Character Levels Maximum Essentia for the Soulmeld
    3rd – 4th 2
    5th – 8th 3
    9th – 12th 4
    13th – 16th 5
    17th – 20th 6
    Level 2 Claws Bite Essentia Pool
    3 1d4 1d6 3
    4 1d4 1d6 4
    5 1d6 1d8 5
    6 1d6 1d8 6
    7 1d6 1d8 7
    8 1d6 1d8 8
    9 1d6 1d8 9
    10 1d8 1d10 10
    11 1d8 1d10 11
    12 1d8 1d10 12
    13 1d8 1d10 13
    14 1d8 1d10 14
    15 1d8 1d10 15
    16 1d8 1d10 16
    17 1d10 1d12 17
    18 1d10 1d12 18
    19 1d10 1d12 19
    20 1d10 1d12 20

    However, i don't know what to put down for Melds, for 6th and 10th level path features and whether or not the Aspect of the Beast is overpowered or not.
    I figured since its like being able to cast magic weapon with the usual concentration rules it would be ok to add the additional features with the use of an attunement slot
    Last edited by BRKNdevil; 2014-09-27 at 01:53 PM. Reason: Upgrades

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    Default Re: Incarnum Barbarian Subclass

    Incarnum Soulmeld Ideas

    Spoiler: Warrior's Iron Band
    Show

    When you shape this soulmeld, a wisp of gray colored energy wraps around your left upper arm. When you attune this soulmeld this wisp of energy turns to a simple iron band that wraps around the upper left arm.
    Essentia Invested into this soulmeld increases the maximum number of superiority dice the character has by the amount of essentia invested, but doesn't grant maneuvers nor restore used dice. When attuned you gain a number of maneuvers equal to the amount of essentia invested. If the character had no Superiority Dice then the dice's values are d6s.
    Last edited by BRKNdevil; 2014-09-27 at 01:42 PM.

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    Default Re: Incarnum Barbarian Subclass

    Quote Originally Posted by BRKNdevil View Post
    So i would really like suggestions on the class features and also on how to build the melds available for the class
    1. Well, I think at least couple of the abilities should be quite apparent, quick and modular attunements. I would also make him a bit more adept in sensing and finding the supernatural/magical as he delves into it.
    2. As for melds keep it simple as you don't have a 5e incarnum system to borrow from and it is a subclass. As such just make a few melds based on tribe like survival and basic animal like abilities. For example, gorilla manacles for climbing/swinging, lions coif for intimidation and fear, ancestral weapon for a quick magical weapon, hawk eyes for sight,..etc
    3. Again I do not know much about 5e, but why does the natural weapons have a DC?

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    Default Re: Incarnum Barbarian Subclass

    Quote Originally Posted by BRKNdevil View Post
    Incarnum is invested into melds that can be concentrated on like spells (so 1 unattuned meld at a time) and can be attuned like magic items to get around Concentration limitations
    Melds can be Dispelled one at a time with a spell level equal to the amount of incarnum invested into them. These points return to your pool after one round


    However, i don't know what to put down for Melds, for 6th and 10th level path features and whether or not the Aspect of the Beast is overpowered or not.
    I figured since its like being able to cast magic weapon with the usual concentration rules it would be ok to add the additional features with the use of an attunement slot
    1. Having to constantly spend points is going to waste actions.
    2. I guess the real question is do you want the additional bind effects because maybe then you would want to change the rules a bit.
    3. It really depends how 5e treats natural weapons.

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    Default Re: Incarnum Barbarian Subclass

    Quote Originally Posted by Amnoriath View Post
    1. Well, I think at least couple of the abilities should be quite apparent, quick and modular attunements. I would also make him a bit more adept in sensing and finding the supernatural/magical as he delves into it.
    The problem with that idea is that it is against the idea of both 5e and 3.5 Incarnum rules where you shape your melds after 8hours of sleep and redistribute essentia by having some in reserve and then pumping in more when needed. However you could not take already assigned Essentia unless the meld that held it was disrupted or released. As for the last bit... hmm... i guess features that give things like expertise/prof. in perception, insight and survival?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amnoriath View Post
    2. As for melds keep it simple as you don't have a 5e incarnum system to borrow from and it is a subclass. As such just make a few melds based on tribe like survival and basic animal like abilities. For example, gorilla manacles for climbing/swinging, lions coif for intimidation and fear, ancestral weapon for a quick magical weapon, hawk eyes for sight,..etc
    So basically just take things from Magic of Incarnum?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amnoriath View Post
    3. Again I do not know much about 5e, but why does the natural weapons have a DC?
    Pounce DC which they changed to a 20ft of movement followed by a successful claw attack leads to a Strength Saving Throw or be knocked prone followed by the choice to use your bonus action to bite.

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    Default Re: Incarnum Barbarian Subclass

    Quote Originally Posted by Amnoriath View Post
    1. Having to constantly spend points is going to waste actions.
    Confused on this? What do you mean by that? Have you ever used the incarnum rules before?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amnoriath View Post
    2. I guess the real question is do you want the additional bind effects because maybe then you would want to change the rules a bit.
    Nah was going with the flavor of the melds in the magic of incarnum where binding it to a chakra gave additional effects

    Quote Originally Posted by Amnoriath View Post
    3. It really depends how 5e treats natural weapons.
    ???

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    Default Re: Incarnum Barbarian Subclass

    Quote Originally Posted by BRKNdevil View Post
    The problem with that idea is that it is against the idea of both 5e and 3.5 Incarnum rules where you shape your melds after 8hours of sleep and redistribute essentia by having some in reserve and then pumping in more when needed. However you could not take already assigned Essentia unless the meld that held it was disrupted or released. As for the last bit... hmm... i guess features that give things like expertise/prof. in perception, insight and survival?



    So basically just take things from Magic of Incarnum?



    Pounce DC which they changed to a 20ft of movement followed by a successful claw attack leads to a Strength Saving Throw or be knocked prone followed by the choice to use your bonus action to bite.
    1. Except if you remember the good incarnum base classes they both gave class features to change up their soulmelds. The Incarnate could unshape and reshape any soulmeld they had on them with any one they knew and the Totemist could exchange its totem binds with another soulmeld they had shaped a few times a day. The way I assumed this would work you would have a few out already but only could attune or concentrate a couple at a time. Attunement normally takes a long time so being able change that would save you a lot of time but not really bring anything you didn't already account for, just versatility in the moment.
    2. Yes, but I am not sure you should necessarily call them soulmelds as the various rules for them creating some very odd conundrums in the book while in play. If you keep them slotless it will make things easy to keep track of.
    3. But you still get more than one attack in correct?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BRKNdevil View Post
    Confused on this? What do you mean by that? Have you ever used the incarnum rules before?


    Nah was going with the flavor of the melds in the magic of incarnum where binding it to a chakra gave additional effects


    ???
    1. Yes, and in those rules the points are not automatically divested from the recepticles, forcing you to pay the action to get the bonuses again. They stayed and only changed as a swift action if you wanted to.
    2. So no binding, just a base ability that scales with essentia? I am going to need to take a look at the 5e barbarian to see what fits where. If you wouldn't mind sending me a copy in my messages because I am not sure what material to trust on the internet
    3. Well since 5e reduced the necessity of the full attack action how do natural weapons fit in? Are they extra attacks added on to the standard attack action, just another single one to use..etc? In 3.X they where added on to your iteratives taking a claw off possibly to wield a weapon or none if you had an unarmed strike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amnoriath View Post
    3. But you still get more than one attack in correct?
    In 5e you have 1 Action, 1 Move, and 1 Bonus Action. So now it is possible to move your full movement and then do a full attack. So when Pounce is used after moving 20 ft with your Move, you can then attack with whatever using your Action to Attack. How many attacks you have during an attack depends on how many extra attacks you have. Most Melee classes have only 2 attacks at 5th level and don't get anymore than that. the exceptions being the Rogue and the Fighter who don't get any more attacks past the 1 and the other getting 4 attacks at level 20.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amnoriath View Post
    1. Yes, and in those rules the points are not automatically divested from the recepticles, forcing you to pay the action to get the bonuses again. They stayed and only changed as a swift action if you wanted to.
    2. So no binding, just a base ability that scales with essentia? I am going to need to take a look at the 5e barbarian to see what fits where. If you wouldn't mind sending me a copy in my messages because I am not sure what material to trust on the internet
    3. Well since 5e reduced the necessity of the full attack action how do natural weapons fit in? Are they extra attacks added on to the standard attack action, just another single one to use..etc? In 3.X they where added on to your iteratives taking a claw off possibly to wield a weapon or none if you had an unarmed strike.
    Ok, then i must have misread the rules in the MoI because it thought after investing Essentia into a class feature they couldn't be removed until you shape your soulmelds. I know a few feats worked like that. In 5e magic items are now all slotless and some magic items have to be attuned to the user in order to gain their effect. You can only have 3 Magic Items Attuned at a time. So I decided to use this mechanic to attune soulmelds to these slots instead of magic items since in MoI soulmelds could be bound to a Chakra and then you couldn't use that item slot for magic items. Natural Weapons vary depending on the creature using it. Some creatures can use the same natural weapon to attack multiple times, others use one natural weapon per attack when making a multiattack. I just went with the idea of treating them like weapons. Also there are no iteratives in 5e and you don't have slowly downscaling weapon attacks. its just Prof. Bonus + whatever = attack bonus for all attacks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BRKNdevil View Post
    In 5e you have 1 Action, 1 Move, and 1 Bonus Action. So now it is possible to move your full movement and then do a full attack. So when Pounce is used after moving 20 ft with your Move, you can then attack with whatever using your Action to Attack. How many attacks you have during an attack depends on how many extra attacks you have. Most Melee classes have only 2 attacks at 5th level and don't get anymore than that. the exceptions being the Rogue and the Fighter who don't get any more attacks past the 1 and the other getting 4 attacks at level 20.



    Ok, then i must have misread the rules in the MoI because it thought after investing Essentia into a class feature they couldn't be removed until you shape your soulmelds. I know a few feats worked like that. In 5e magic items are now all slotless and some magic items have to be attuned to the user in order to gain their effect. You can only have 3 Magic Items Attuned at a time. So I decided to use this mechanic to attune soulmelds to these slots instead of magic items since in MoI soulmelds could be bound to a Chakra and then you couldn't use that item slot for magic items. Natural Weapons vary depending on the creature using it. Some creatures can use the same natural weapon to attack multiple times, others use one natural weapon per attack when making a multiattack. I just went with the idea of treating them like weapons. Also there are no iteratives in 5e and you don't have slowly downscaling weapon attacks. its just Prof. Bonus + whatever = attack bonus for all attacks.
    1. Okay, I get that the natural attacks themselves unless stated otherwise don't net extra attacks but what about Pounce?
    2. The only things that applied to are Incarnum Feats. Everything else went by the swift action mechanic which is one of the reasons why Magic of Incarnum has its fans, including me. Soulmelds always had a base ability and essentia based bonus on top of the chakra bind.

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    Default Re: Incarnum Barbarian Subclass

    Here is what Pounce attacks in general sound like.
    Pounce. If the lion moves at least 20 feet straight toward a creature and then hits it with a claw attack on the same turn, that target must succeed on a DC 13 Strength saving throw or be knocked prone. If the target is prone, the lion can make one bite attack against it as a bonus action.
    Because full attacks are just a Attack action then yes you can get a full attack with pounce. Now everyone can get a full attack after moving
    And according to the spell Alter Self, natural weapons are just unarmed strikes that do more damage.
    Also I changed the 1st post with some of the ideas you helped generate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BRKNdevil View Post
    Here is what Pounce attacks in general sound like.
    Pounce. If the lion moves at least 20 feet straight toward a creature and then hits it with a claw attack on the same turn, that target must succeed on a DC 13 Strength saving throw or be knocked prone. If the target is prone, the lion can make one bite attack against it as a bonus action.
    Because full attacks are just a Attack action then yes you can get a full attack with pounce. Now everyone can get a full attack after moving
    And according to the spell Alter Self, natural weapons are just unarmed strikes that do more damage.
    Also I changed the 1st post with some of the ideas you helped generate.
    1. Okay but yours actually doesn't say Pounce, just that if that they make a successful claw attack or grapple they automatically gain a bite attack. So, currently the meld DC doesn't have much of a purpose right now as it is only contingent on the attack or a grapple which would be another check itself.
    2. From what I was able to gather this path is starting to look more powerful than the other ones including your warrior path. The essentia rage along with the first abilities is really compounding almost a better offense and with probably at least about 10 other melds I would be correct in saying anything others Barbarians can do it can do better. I believe you ought to make utility, modularity, and controls better focuses. When looking at the Totem Warrior it might be wise to change the theme of the flavor to fit surroundings or environment as of right now the two are identical except for mechanics. I suggested the abilities as I did because among all the Barbarian Paths he ought to be the most adept being more likely to identify them and change if necessary.
    P.S. If it is at all possible could you just send the barbarian because any time I try to download it either says failure or after bars are filled 8 different internet windows pop up act as if it was a search of the words in the download title.

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    Default Re: Incarnum Barbarian Subclass

    Quote Originally Posted by Amnoriath View Post
    1. Okay but yours actually doesn't say Pounce, just that if that they make a successful claw attack or grapple they automatically gain a bite attack. So, currently the meld DC doesn't have much of a purpose right now as it is only contingent on the attack or a grapple which would be another check itself.
    2. From what I was able to gather this path is starting to look more powerful than the other ones including your warrior path. The essentia rage along with the first abilities is really compounding almost a better offense and with probably at least about 10 other melds I would be correct in saying anything others Barbarians can do it can do better. I believe you ought to make utility, modularity, and controls better focuses. When looking at the Totem Warrior it might be wise to change the theme of the flavor to fit surroundings or environment as of right now the two are identical except for mechanics. I suggested the abilities as I did because among all the Barbarian Paths he ought to be the most adept being more likely to identify them and change if necessary.
    P.S. If it is at all possible could you just send the barbarian because any time I try to download it either says failure or after bars are filled 8 different internet windows pop up act as if it was a search of the words in the download title.
    1.) thats because that is just a trigger for an extra attack since claws start off weaker than something a barbarian would normally use.
    2.) I agree with that sentiment and would love if you could bring in more people to discuss this. Especially someone who has tried the current barbarian and incarnum character classes from 3.5

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    Default Re: Incarnum Barbarian Subclass

    Loved the idea
    I think using Warlock invocation as number of shaped soulmelds [binding only three-four, as you done] would be a neat idea, and you could use the existing invocations as balancing points as to what a a soulmeld might do.
    Once/long rest abilities might become once/short rest on a bind.
    The more I say it, more I thinking this is becoming more of a full fledged totemist...

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    Default Re: Incarnum Barbarian Subclass

    Quote Originally Posted by BRKNdevil View Post
    1.) thats because that is just a trigger for an extra attack since claws start off weaker than something a barbarian would normally use.
    2.) I agree with that sentiment and would love if you could bring in more people to discuss this. Especially someone who has tried the current barbarian and incarnum character classes from 3.5
    1. Well does 5e have anything similar to INA? I also feel like this feature could better be a soulmeld that goes toward survival
    2. I believe this path of a barbarian almost could be like a sage or shaman type character who has more innate knowledge and mental fortitude rather than getting better rage. As such at level 3 he ought to be able to choose to be proficient in either Arcana, Nature, or Religion checks then either at level 6 or 10 he can be proficient in wisdom saves. I would also sprinkle in with Detect magic and Speak with Dead as rituals later on.
    In addition seeing that bonuses are more rare I would suggest the essentia start out with one, maybe rage can expand it by one since it restricts somethings anyway. Finally in order to stop the of a long advancement chart for each meld or way too powerful to begin with in order to compete with more expensive items you could make a mechanic in which purposely unshapes a meld along with maybe 2 or 3 points of essentia burn to create a larger instantaneous or 1 round effect based on each meld. This at the very least come at level 10 if not 14.
    3. Well I have played Incarnum before and is one of my favorites to use. Person Man, Grod the Giant, and Xefas I believe are the best people in sizing up and making homebrew melee characters. I honestly don't know people who play 5e so you may want to start a thread there and ask people to come over.
    Last edited by Amnoriath; 2014-09-28 at 10:44 AM.

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    Default Re: Incarnum Barbarian Subclass

    1. I think you also need to clear up if they are for the most part considered spells including effective level. As such do racial features giving themselves advantage on certain rolls against spells or spell resistance apply or not?
    2. Addtionally are we keeping meldshaper mechanics in which they automatically know all of their soulmelds available or are we going with soulmelds known?
    Last edited by Amnoriath; 2014-09-29 at 10:30 AM.

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    Default Re: Incarnum Barbarian Subclass

    Quote Originally Posted by Amnoriath View Post
    1. I think you also need to clear up if they are for the most part considered spells including effective level. As such do racial features giving themselves advantage on certain rolls against spells or spell resistance apply or not?
    2. Addtionally are we keeping meldshaper mechanics in which they automatically know all of their soulmelds available or are we going with soulmelds known?
    Good point on both parts and i have to respond with i have no idea. Where do you think the balance point would be?
    I would really like some input on this 5e Homebrew
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...mebrew-on-GitP

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    Default Re: Incarnum Barbarian Subclass

    Quote Originally Posted by BRKNdevil View Post
    Good point on both parts and i have to respond with i have no idea. Where do you think the balance point would be?
    1. Personally, to avoid the headache of making a full Incarnum system for a Barbarian path I would change the name of them and make them supernatural. This solves at least three other issues. One, you don't have to worry about effective level, meaning you don't have to create some ad hoc mechanic or determine a reasonable passive level in relation to spell casters seeing that high level spells are that much rarer. Two, you don't have to concentrate meaning their effects still can be used in a rage. Three, this gives affect advantage against magic items, meaning you don't have to worry about making them a certain level more powerful than items they would normally unlock while having other path abilitites because these things already have that certain level. You then can just go by custom magic items rules and use the essentia investment to scale with the estimated price.
    2. Well, known seems to have better balance and gives differentiation but it is more work. You also are still limited by the day and number shaped as well as attuned. There are two general questions to ask. One is how do you feel about them having 10+ free, exotic items having to choose about up to 5-6 a day? Two, how would they stack up in the high levels against equivalent items? The first is personal and the second depends on the degree of passivity or active at will powers is going on.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Orc in the Playground
    Join Date
    Nov 2012

    Default Re: Incarnum Barbarian Subclass

    Quote Originally Posted by Amnoriath View Post
    1. Personally, to avoid the headache of making a full Incarnum system for a Barbarian path I would change the name of them and make them supernatural. This solves at least three other issues. One, you don't have to worry about effective level, meaning you don't have to create some ad hoc mechanic or determine a reasonable passive level in relation to spell casters seeing that high level spells are that much rarer. Two, you don't have to concentrate meaning their effects still can be used in a rage. Three, this gives affect advantage against magic items, meaning you don't have to worry about making them a certain level more powerful than items they would normally unlock while having other path abilitites because these things already have that certain level. You then can just go by custom magic items rules and use the essentia investment to scale with the estimated price.
    2. Well, known seems to have better balance and gives differentiation but it is more work. You also are still limited by the day and number shaped as well as attuned. There are two general questions to ask. One is how do you feel about them having 10+ free, exotic items having to choose about up to 5-6 a day? Two, how would they stack up in the high levels against equivalent items? The first is personal and the second depends on the degree of passivity or active at will powers is going on.
    I was using the way elemental monks can use a larger amount of ki to increase their ability powers and Unfortunately I don't know what the really rare weapons will be like until they release the DMG which won't be for another month. Also the reason i made it incarnum is so that i could later use it to build a fighter, rogue, and possibly monk.
    I would really like some input on this 5e Homebrew
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...mebrew-on-GitP

    Help Rebuild my Friend's Shop Goblin Games!
    https://www.gofundme.com/rebuild-goblin-games

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Flumph

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    Feb 2012

    Default Re: Incarnum Barbarian Subclass

    Quote Originally Posted by BRKNdevil View Post
    I was using the way elemental monks can use a larger amount of ki to increase their ability powers and Unfortunately I don't know what the really rare weapons will be like until they release the DMG which won't be for another month. Also the reason i made it incarnum is so that i could later use it to build a fighter, rogue, and possibly monk.
    1. Yeah, but Incarnum characters don't nova.
    2. So are you saying you want to make soulmelds for all of them? All in all you are probably going to make about 40. Also the way you are handling the soulmelds would get in the way of a rogue or fighter more than a barbarian. As such just making abilities fueled off essentia would not only be simpler it would allow you focus on what kind of strategies you want your subclasses to have.

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Orc in the Playground
    Join Date
    Nov 2012

    Default Re: Incarnum Barbarian Subclass

    Quote Originally Posted by Amnoriath View Post
    1. Yeah, but Incarnum characters don't nova.
    2. So are you saying you want to make soulmelds for all of them? All in all you are probably going to make about 40. Also the way you are handling the soulmelds would get in the way of a rogue or fighter more than a barbarian. As such just making abilities fueled off essentia would not only be simpler it would allow you focus on what kind of strategies you want your subclasses to have.
    I was going for more of a shared pool of 20 and so do you think i should base it off the limitations from the magic of Incarnum book? then would the subclass ability be something like increasing the investment possible on any one meld or something? I dunno, how about you post your version of essentia rules because i don't think i'm going anywhere.
    I would really like some input on this 5e Homebrew
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...mebrew-on-GitP

    Help Rebuild my Friend's Shop Goblin Games!
    https://www.gofundme.com/rebuild-goblin-games

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Flumph

    Join Date
    Feb 2012

    Default Re: Incarnum Barbarian Subclass

    Quote Originally Posted by BRKNdevil View Post
    I was going for more of a shared pool of 20 and so do you think i should base it off the limitations from the magic of Incarnum book? then would the subclass ability be something like increasing the investment possible on any one meld or something? I dunno, how about you post your version of essentia rules because i don't think i'm going anywhere.
    1. Well, essentia is permanent unless it is damaged specifically so you really can't equate it to the ki abilities(or nova strategy). This is one of the defining features of Incarnum in which you can fine tune your stats and really isn't negotiable if you want an Incarnum system.
    2. I was just stating that maybe it isn't in the interest of every future subclass to have a list of soulmelds. This particular subclass definitely has a flavor of a rugged asceticism and the Barbarian itself can afford to be more item-light because of its features as well as niches so allowing it to shape things that give magical powers at the expense of active items seems the most appropriate. Rogues though are incentivised to have all sorts of skills and tools which hopefully in the future will equate to some exotic/semi-magical effects by themselves, so they need the time as well as items to do so outside of combat. Fighters while quite offensive and have a couple nice action economy features do not have the defenses and "lucky" rolls for the Barbarian. So they often need some magical defenses or the advantage/disadvantage rolls to stay in the same playing field. While you could say hey lets give melds for that we have to consider its subclasses. Thieves and Arcane Tricksters expand upon in different ways for the Rogue just as the Champion and Battlemaster for the Fighter. I would say a subclass can't simply be justified just by adding a new system, it needs to have a role among the class others don't necessarily do well. One of them could per se have a modular soulmeld but others could simply have a set of abilities that use essentia either for itself or other things. Here I will post a couple of my 3.X Incarnum PrC fixes here.
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...m-Blade-rehaul
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...scent+Champion

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