spell idea

[jlousivy]

i don't know if there are any of these types of spells, but dhavaer(spelling) gave me the idea of a spell that deals a ton of damage aoe, but it is always focused on the caster and deals damage to the caster

So what do you think?
????
sorc/wiz 4?
burst aoe 30 feet centered around caster
1d12(or 2d6?) fire damage/ level
reflex 1/2?
SR

mutual suffering
sorc/wiz 7?
range: touch
no SR
no save
the caster may choose to take con(ability damage? ability drain?), the target takes an equal amount of con damage. Limit 1 con/level and the wizard may not reduce his con to less than 3. Should the target or caster be immune, the spells effects are negated and there is no effect.

[Jade_Tarem]

mutual suffering
sorc/wiz 7?
range: touch
no SR
no save
the caster may choose to take con(ability damage? ability drain?), the target takes an equal amount of con damage. Limit 1 con/level and the wizard may not reduce his con to less than 3. Should the target or caster be immune, the spells effects are negated and there is no effect.

I'm not sure I would ever pick this spell up. A wizard will almost always have less con than everything around him, and certainly less con than the majority of monsters he's likely to face. It's useless vs. undead, constructs, and a few other things, as well as any idiot with a protection from negative energy effect. Also, by definition it's useless if you yourself are protected.

So what you have is a level 7... finishing move. There are better spells in this line - the level 1 spell Ray of Enfeeblement is better in every way except that it allows SR.

To put it another way, the requirement of the sacrifice of con sounds a lot like the sacrifice costs on those super-holy (Sanctified, I think they're called) spells from the BoED, which, for just one point of con, or str, or what have you, typically yield better results, at lower levels.

[NemoUtopia]

????
sorc/wiz 4?
burst aoe 30 feet centered around caster
1d12(or 2d6?) fire damage/ level
reflex 1/2?
SR

Immolating Nova
Evocation [Fire]
Level: Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 30 ft. radius burst, centered on caster
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex half (see below)
Spell Resistance: Yes

Summary of effect: 1d12 fire damage / caster level (max 10d12?), caster affected and recieves no save

It's a start, anyway, maybe someone can finish it off...

[Roethke]

I'd be wary of letting my player's use this-- it becomes very easy to provide yourself/allies with protection, and you've now doubled your fireballing pleasure. Maybe add something to make sure that the caster, at least, takes the damage, e.g. make the nova deal con damage to the caster, or something.

Not to mention, empower/maximize make it particularly nasty. Still, it's a way to be a damage caster, so I'm not dead-set against it.

[jlousivy]

say you get 30 fire resistance-- chances are at say lvl 10 you roll 6's (so lower than average damage) you deal 60 dmg so the caster still takes 30 points of damage. which is quite abit for a d4 HD caster

[NemoUtopia]

I'd be wary of letting my player's use this-- it becomes very easy to provide yourself/allies with protection, and you've now doubled your fireballing pleasure. Maybe add something to make sure that the caster, at least, takes the damage, e.g. make the nova deal con damage to the caster, or something.

Not to mention, empower/maximize make it particularly nasty. Still, it's a way to be a damage caster, so I'm not dead-set against it.

This is a great point...maybe adding a line about how a caster with fire immunity from any source or who prevents damage so he/she/it takes less than 10 (or just some number X, maybe 1/4th of the damage?) takes that much damage resulting from pure arcane power (not subject to immunity, resistance, etc.)...

[jlousivy]

So.... what about

Immolating Nova
Evocation [Fire]
Level: Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 30 ft. radius burst, centered on caster
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex half (see below)
Spell Resistance: Yes

Summary of effect: 1d12 fire damage / caster level (max 10d12?), Caster recieves 1/2 damage that bypasses all SR, Resistances, and Immunities


?

[NemoUtopia]

So.... what about

Immolating Nova
Evocation [Fire]
Level: Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 30 ft. radius burst, centered on caster
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex half (see below)
Spell Resistance: Yes

Summary of effect: 1d12 fire damage / caster level (max 10d12?), Caster recieves 1/2 damage that bypasses all SR, Resistances, and Immunities


?

Half damage may be a bit much. Sure, it has the potential to be 2 fireballs together...I'd say 1/4th damage rolled as guesstimate (that's still effectively 5d6 to a d4 class).

[Roethke]

So.... what about

Immolating Nova
Evocation [Fire]
Level: Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 30 ft. radius burst, centered on caster
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex half (see below)
Spell Resistance: Yes

Summary of effect: 1d12 fire damage / caster level (max 10d12?), Caster recieves 1/2 damage that bypasses all SR, Resistances, and Immunities


?

Seems a bit more reasonable. Definitely good for Blaze of Glory moments. You certainly wouldn't want to maximize it (unless you were really really sure you'd get 'em all), and empowering would be a chancy business. It's still a lot of damage to be tossing about from a single source, compared to other 4th-level spells.

Ice storm is 5d6 no save in a 20' radius. Evards Black Tentacles is 1d6+4 /rnd, so, assuming you haven't feed yourself, that's a good amount of damage over the long run.

But I guess large amounts of damage is sort of the point.

[Collin152]

That second one looks familliar... Could have sworn I posted the concept somewhere.... "Mutual Destruction: Suicide" I recall posting. Makes me think of Orochimaru's "Mutual Snake Destruction: Two snakes killing each other" thing-a-ma-bob

[jlousivy]

indeed you did

[Collin152]

yeah, and here I thought that the whole "Great minds think alike" got replaced by "great minds think for themselves", but go figure.