The Devout and the Dead: a guide to Clerics

[Waazraath]

They are indeed, though it's worth noting that (barring Arcana Domain) it's impossible to get them as Wisdom-reliant, which is fine for BB but something of a downer for GFB.

True, GFB is less interesting unless you have some int to spare (rolled high on ability scores, for example)... but to be honest, I think the main advantage of these cantrips is only at level 5, when they start adding damage to the main attack. The side effects are nice to haves, not need to haves. When you use BB before level 5, you probably won't trigger the 'booming damage', since the target you just hit has a target standing right in front of him: you. Nevertheless, thunder damage will be much less resisted in most campaigns than fire damage, so I'd go BB anyway (flavor aside).

[Yorrin]

@Flame Strike- I'll happily change the wording to make it less domain-specific, since it really is.

@SCAG Cantrips- They are great, especially for Domains like Tempest, but the lack of Wis prevents them from being an absolute must-have in every build.

[MeeposFire]

I would say eventually even with green flame blade having to use cha or int is not really that much of a downer as think about it. You deal a normal weapon attack and get a bonus 3d8 eventually no matter what and then 3d8 to another target. Would you pay a feat for a potential weapon+6d8? Does the change of 6d8+5 to 6d8+1 really make the difference once you make it to the mid levels?

I can understand not taking it because you don't think it is worth spending a feat to boost your otherwise fairly weak at will attack but if you would be willing to spend it on greenflame blade if it used wisdom I just don't see enough damage difference to really dissuade you from taking it in that case. We are talking a difference of 5 damage at most on an action if used would deal something like 45 damage(assuming a d8 weapon and you are a weapon using cleric) before that extra stat mod.

[GorogIrongut]

First and foremost, got to add my voice to others who are grateful for this thread.

I'm an old school player (2nd, 3rd and 3.5) coming back to the world of 5th edition. And it looks fun. Personal idiosyncrasies, I am an addicted dwarf player who will usually pick cleric for his class, 9 times out of 10. I also enjoy making effective characters, but characters who are characterful.

I've pulled together a group of 6 players (myself included) and a DM who's wacky and crazy. We're probably going to have a fair amount of leeway both in character creation and roleplaying as long as we make it fun. We will be mostly 'in character' all of the time.

Using an online roller with the 4d6 for getting stats I rolled what became the following:
Gorog Irongut
Str - 13
Dex - 14
Con - 16 (including a +2 for being dwarf)
Int - 13
Wis - 19 (including a +1 for being a Hill Dwarf)
Cha - 4 (I thought long and hard about how I could make my character so unbelievably dislikable.)
On the whole I was fortunate. But I found it interesting that I got an 18 and a 4 amongst my rolls. I kind of would have preferred that some of my 13's were a little lower and the charisma was higher. But you get what the cyber dice give you.

So, I've already talked it through with the DM and she gave me permission to run a Cleric of Death. Even to run it as not evil. The basic premise will be that he was the only survivor of his clan's settlement, a new settlement that had been made to help expand the clan's reach. Little did they know that minions of the Underdark had already established a toe hold in the area. So he heads there as a lowly little brewmaster with passable martial skills and gets a face full of duergar. (At some point I want to use his brewing skills to make magical ale that can either restore hit points or be used as a poison)

All of his kith die horrible and mangly deaths. Gorog is one of the last to go and he would swear to you that he died, seeing brief visions of his kith celebrating in the dwarfen version of Valhalla. Instead he wakes up very confused and with a pounding headache. With no friends or family left, he sets off to sell his skills with an axe, a very grumpy mercenary with a seeming inability to make friends.

Bit by bit over the next year his patchwork dreams help him to remember the events of that day... treading past the souls of the damned... the joyless existence of the now deceased... but also the supreme justice of the afterlife... And ultimately he remembers standing before Kelemvor (thought about a way of making it Odin, but it never quite worked) and agreeing to return to his body to carry out the work of shepherding souls to the afterlife.

With such a complicated task before him there were sure to be mistakes along the way; and truth be told, his mistakes went on longer than should have been tolerated. Initially he went about his grim task without mercy. All he felt he could aid in their transition to the afterlife had a pointed meeting with his axe. His motto being one of equality. For the wicked deserved their punishments in the afterlife. And the good would benefit from an upgrade to the training grounds of Valhalla, where their might could truly be put to good use. During this period he dabbled in magicks to better enable his reaping methods.

Gorog's misguided brand of justice began to rub Kelemvor the wrong way and he sent a wake up call in the form of his clergy. An epic smackdown occurred and suddenly the coolest thing Gorog could imagine being would be a Cleric of Kelemvor. He eventually understood that it's okay to kill people trying to kill you and others... but not so cool to kill indiscriminately. So without their permission, Gorog had to leave the poor people to live their lives amongst the living.

That didn't stop him from trying to convince them of the wonders of the afterlife. You see, at a critical moment in his conversion process that involved a little too much alcohol, Signor Groggypants mistakenly became of the opinion that Kelemvor had picked him for his eagerness at proselyting the afterlife. So now he wanders around like a salesman on commission trying to usher the living on to the next stage of their existence. Being an unabashed and enthusiastic proponent of death means that he is often inappropriate and often deserving of the animosity that a 4 charisma will get you.

He is LN. He doesn't create Undead as Kelemvor disapproves. It's seen as stealing from the Underworld. He is happy to heal regularly. Using resurrection magic is a little more fiddly as he views that as a bit of theft as well. To resurrect others, there would have to be an upfront or implied contract that they would help Gorog in his mission to convert the world of the living to the world of the dead. It's important to note that he isn't heartless. He weeps when he sees the weak killed. He takes joy in the defeat of evil. He simply views it as necessary to be an impartial arbiter. Just like he's not completely wed to the thought of Death itself. He eagerly promotes marriage and childbirth, as they will ultimately all increase the reach of the underworld... plus little dwarflings are ridiculously cute.

This is the path I foresee. We'll be starting the campaign at level 5 and the DM and I have yet to work out equipment:
Level 1 Fighter. This gives me proficiency Con, a starting 14 hp, access to all weapons and armour (and being a dwarf I can make good use of it. It also gives me Fighter goodies. I'm torn between the Dueling ability (+2 damage w/ one handed weapons) or Defense (+1 AC). There's also Second Wind.
Level 2 Fighter. Action Surge ftw!
Level 3 Fighter. Eldritch Knight gives me Weapon Bond, spellcasting (BoomBlade, Minor Illusion, Shield, Find Familiar and Absorb Elements). Yes I'm going to get an owl familiar.
Level 4 Fighter. Bit more magic and an ASI. I'm not sure which to get first. Warcaster, Resilience Wisdom (for the 20 wisdom) or Lucky.
Level 5 Cleric of Death. Twinned Chilled Touch already getting the extra d8!
Level 6 Cleric of Death. Channel Divinity: Touch of Deth
Level 7 Cleric of Death
Level 8 Cleric of Death. ASI (one of the above that I didn't already pick.
Level 9 Fighter. Extra Attack
Level 10 Fighter. ASI (last of the 3 above)
Level 11 Fighter. War Magic
Level 12 Fighter. ASI +2 Con
Level 13 Cleric. Destroy Undead
Level 14 Cleric. Inescapable Death
Level 15 Cleric
Level 16 Cleric. ASI +2 Con. Divine Strike.
Level 17 Cleric
Level 18 Cleric. Divine Intervention
Level 19 Cleric
Level 20 Cleric. ASI (Dunno. At this point it could be anything.)

This build benefits from lots of hit points. Great armour. 6 ASI's. You also get to be fairly combat oriented while casting lots of magic. Whether it's Bless, Guidance, Spirit Weapon/Guardians. Or it's twinned Chilled Touches. Or it's the EK Booming blade, multi attacking goodness. It also avoids the kind of dead space that higher level clerics get when their spells are lackluster. It fills this void with lots of cantrips that are boosted by all general levels (and not by having to count how many levels are in cleric or EK). With all of that fightiness, it also counts as a level 14 full caster by the time you get to the end. If anything, I would like for this to give me a few more cantrips that aren't available to Clerics (most of which are kind of weak). I'd like Mage Hand or Shillelagh. Shocking Grasp or Friends. I also get tankiness in exchange for most, good high level spells. I'm also limiting myself by not raising undead. Most of the good stuff I get from the Domain of Death I get pretty quickly. Nor do I feel that I'm unduly abusing it. If anything, I'm sure I could get a lot more from other PHB Domains. I just wouldn't get the roleplaying fun of being an overeager J Dub of Death.

So, do you guys have any thoughts or tips? How could I make it more fun to roleplay? Am I missing a combo that would help make it more capable?

[Theodoxus]

@SCAG Cantrips- They are great, especially for Domains like Tempest, but the lack of Wis prevents them from being an absolute must-have in every build.

I know everyone seems to love GFB for whatever reason - but I prefer BB in nearly every case. I chose my Life cleric to be a High Elf just to grab BB. Then, at 4th, took Magic Initiate [druid] for Shillelagh and Goodberry (though the DM ruled that goodberry was 1/long rest - still, 40 points of healing 1/day that is modular is on par with an 8th level Paladin, so I'm not complaining).

Still, being able to reliably wade into melee while my Spiritual Weapon assists has been quite fun. I've only played Life and Knowledge clerics - both of whom were more melee oriented... I really need to check out War or Tempest sometime soon :)

[Yorrin]

First and foremost, got to add my voice to others who are grateful for this thread.

Thanks!

Gorog Irongut

Sounds like a fun character. I too am somewhat addicted to Dwarves. Such a great culture and in every game they show up in they tend to have pretty solid stats.

As for your build, it's a pretty solid hybrid between the two classes. You've got a gluttony of offensive options, so I wouldn't worry about trying to acquire too many new ones (ie- don't worry about Shocking Grasp when you've got martial weapon proficiency and twinned Chill Touch). On the off chance you make it all the way to level 20 dropping a level of Fighter for one more of Cleric could pick you up 8th level spells at the cost of an ASI/feat, which I find advisable. But it seems like you've got a solid idea overall.

[Dudu]

I'm starting to think Arcane Domain might be the strongest domain for a pure Wis (no multiclass) cleric.

Their capstone alone, that lets them get Wish, is a good reason (forget about Meteor Swarm, Wish is leagues stronger).

The other strong reason is, ofc, the cantrips. Can't go wrong with firebolt, and the SCAG melee cantrips aren't weak either.

The third reason, a dispel cure feature.

Overall, I think they are just too solid to ignore. Sky blue without second doubt.

[Yorrin]

I'm starting to think Arcane Domain might be the strongest domain for a pure Wis (no multiclass) cleric.

Their capstone alone, that lets them get Wish, is a good reason (forget about Meteor Swarm, Wish is leagues stronger).

The other strong reason is, ofc, the cantrips. Can't go wrong with firebolt, and the SCAG melee cantrips aren't weak either.

The third reason, a dispel cure feature.

Overall, I think they are just too solid to ignore. Sky blue without second doubt.

I agree that Arcana is one of the strongest overall domains, and is almost without a doubt the strongest pure-Wis domain. Knowledge is too specifically tailored to intrigue campaigns to be generally useful, and Light, while decent at what it does, is much more limited than Arcana. A Shillelagh toting Nature or Life domain cleric is also quite good, but Arcana just does most things better (aside from Life Domain's heals, ofc).

[Dudu]

Exactly my thoughs, Yorrin.

Although giving a bit more though to it, I believe this rating changes depending on the level of the campaign. Perhaps the knowledge cleric does get better if the campaign covers low levels. But in epic campaigns Arcana is the clear winner.

I never saw what's so special about Light domain. I'm certainly overlooking something there.

[rhombism]

Exactly my thoughs, Yorrin.

Although giving a bit more though to it, I believe this rating changes depending on the level of the campaign. Perhaps the knowledge cleric does get better if the campaign covers low levels. But in epic campaigns Arcana is the clear winner.

I never saw what's so special about Light domain. I'm certainly overlooking something there.

IMO, five big pluses: You. Set. Things. On. Fire.

I've been playing Out of the Abyss, and Light cleric has been especially useful in that campaign. You get Fireball at level 5, a general purpose channel divinity strike that deals 2d10+something damage, and 5 interposition flares that put attacks at disadvantage. I've found that so far up to level 9 of the character, I've been one of the most effective damage dealers in most situations (though of course I could always be better...), I muddle through with and he's more fun to play than a war domain. I like sticking with the more cleric-y spells, but you get to fight magic better as an Arcane, and the capstone spells at the end are very powerful, whereas the Light cleric I think peaks at levels 5 to 8, and then kind of peters out.

If you're fighting magic, Arcane would be better I think. If you're fighting your way through drow, spiders, demons, undead and other things that like the dark, Light cleric has some strong advantages.

[Yorrin]

I never saw what's so special about Light domain. I'm certainly overlooking something there.

The big deal with Light is early access to AoE in Burning Hands and Channel Divinity, which even Arcana has trouble duplicating. That being said, rhombism has the right of it- the domain peaks early and then pretty much plateaus. Once other domains hit level 9 and have access to Flame Strike the only thing Light really has going for it is Fireball, which scales better. The capstone is good at what it does, but it very narrowly focuses your character into a glass cannon role.

[rhombism]

My Light cleric is about to hit 10th level and since the domain is pretty much topped out I'm now considering what I'll take at 12 because I like tempting fate...

My stats are ok where I have them I think, so while i've take the ability score increase at 4 and 8, I will take a Feat at 12.

I reread the thread on Feats and have been thinking about it from a Light cleric perspective. I have two not listed that I'm considering also, but I get why you didn't include them before, since they're kind of general. I figured I'd go through my thinking in case it helps anyone else looking at feats.

I'm considering:
- Elemental Adept (Fire) based on your rating. However, I have a lot of Radiant too, and although I'd get a little more damage and be able to light up demons and such, it just feels underpowered for a Feat to me.
- Lucky, which you didn't include since it is sort of general, but at this level i'm a major damage dealer, and there have been several times, still notable in my memory, where I've unleashed a level 4 Guiding Bolt to end something only to roll a 4. Lucky has also saved our warlock on a number of occasions, also memorable. I know this is a trick of memory and dice rolling. Still...
- Mobile - as a dwarf the +10' of movement helps, particularly if i have to reach out and touch someone, and the dash over difficult terrain and lack of OA is key if I see myself dashing through the melee zone more and more.
- Observant - I'm already at the top of the passive perception, but this would give me 20! and a useless point of INT since my WIS is already pegged from earlier increases. And lip reading which is more valuable in town than in a fight. Upside, I wouldn't miss much. Downside, I'd always be up front.
- Shield Master - so I normally have the shield on anyway, I don't have much else to do during Bonus Actions. I have a 19 STR with the ogre power gloves so the shove would give me at least a percentage of the benefit reducing Opportunity Attacks I'd get with Mobile. It adds to my DEX saves, and while I can't remember a lot of instances where I got hit with an AoE and needed to save for half, that's probably more prevalent in higher levels. Plus it feels very dwarvish to bash things with my shield.

I'm probably between Lucky and Shield at this point. Going to be keeping track from here of which would have been good to have... and then will pick once I get there.

I was also considering multi-classing, but meh.

[Yorrin]

- Elemental Adept (Fire)
- Lucky
- Mobile
- Observant
- Shield Master

You've correctly identified the strengths of each, and from your list the two you called out are certainly some of the better picks. Lucky is just kinda ridiculous. It's one of those things that you can't really quantify enough to put into a guide, but I've never seen it taken where it wasn't impactful. Shield Master has much more quantifiable benefits, and in theory will come up more often.

Also worth noting that Elemental Adept doesn't have Radiant as an option, or I would suggest it for other buids

[djreynolds]

I agree that Arcana is one of the strongest overall domains, and is almost without a doubt the strongest pure-Wis domain. Knowledge is too specifically tailored to intrigue campaigns to be generally useful, and Light, while decent at what it does, is much more limited than Arcana. A Shillelagh toting Nature or Life domain cleric is also quite good, but Arcana just does most things better (aside from Life Domain's heals, ofc).

Too true.

Shillelagh is a nice spell, really helps out landing those attacks and getting in the extra damage at 8th and 14th level. I made the mistake of creating a hill dwarf with a 14 strength, and while adequate I'm stuck on whether to increase my strength or at some point just grab magic initiate for shillelagh at 12 level.

And sacred flame is very nice, can be used in melee since it is not a ranged spell attack and requires a dex saving throw. And a life cleric's radiant damage is a nice perk.

[Solovar]

Hi everyone,

My cleric (evil domain), just leveled up from 7 to 8 which I get the choices of increasing an ability by 2 pts or 2 abilities by 1 each and/or a possible feat.
I already took the resilience constitution which helped a lot.

Ability stats right now:

str 14
dex 14
con 18
int 8
wis 18
cha 13

How vital it is to increase let's say wis from 18 to 20 to get a +1?

[TheTeaMustFlow]

Hi everyone,

My cleric (evil domain), just leveled up from 7 to 8 which I get the choices of increasing an ability by 2 pts or 2 abilities by 1 each and/or a possible feat.
I already took the resilience constitution which helped a lot.

Ability stats right now:

str 14
dex 14
con 18
int 8
wis 18
cha 13

How vital it is to increase let's say wis from 18 to 20 to get a +1?

It's not vital as such (or at least, not yet), but upping wis is always a good choice. Unless you have a pressing reason to do something else, I'd recommend increasing wis.

Also, Evil domain, is that homebrew?

[Yorrin]

It's not vital as such (or at least, not yet), but upping wis is always a good choice. Unless you have a pressing reason to do something else, I'd recommend increasing wis.

Basically true. Upping Wis is always one of your best options, but only rarely is it exclusively so. Something like Warcaster could prove useful for you, for example.

[Solovar]

Also, Evil domain, is that homebrew?

I took the evil domain from the DM guide, hoping that's the answer you were looking for.


Yorrin: I just read it up and it also seems like a good option. Thanks!

[Ace Jackson]

I took the evil domain from the DM guide, hoping that's the answer you were looking for.


Yorrin: I just read it up and it also seems like a good option. Thanks!

Do you mean death domain?

[BucketHead87]

First time poster, but long time reader/forum stalker. What about Var Human Monk OH/Arcane Domain Cleric? Pick up resilient (con) with your bonus feat, Booming Blade and a utility cantrip (such as minor illusion) from the wizard's spell list, and go from there. I'm thinking Monk 5/Cleric 8 to start with (most games I play rarely get to 20th level, let alone 15th). Concentrate on bless or shield of faith for the first few levels of cleric until you have access to 3rd level spells (spirit guardians replaces it), have the choice between FoB, regular attacks + bonus action attack, or Booming Blade (which sadly isn't an attack action, so no bonus action attack or FoB). Going the Booming Blade route, use your action to cast it, bonus action disengage, and laugh as your enemy struggles to decide whether to move or not. I think this build has potential.

Anybody else think of this, or am I way off base.

[Arkhios]

First time poster, but long time reader/forum stalker. What about Var Human Monk OH/Arcane Domain Cleric? Pick up resilient (con) with your bonus feat, Booming Blade and a utility cantrip (such as minor illusion) from the wizard's spell list, and go from there. I'm thinking Monk 5/Cleric 8 to start with (most games I play rarely get to 20th level, let alone 15th). Concentrate on bless or shield of faith for the first few levels of cleric until you have access to 3rd level spells (spirit guardians replaces it), have the choice between FoB, regular attacks + bonus action attack, or Booming Blade (which sadly isn't an attack action, so no bonus action attack or FoB). Going the Booming Blade route, use your action to cast it, bonus action disengage, and laugh as your enemy struggles to decide whether to move or not. I think this build has potential.

Anybody else think of this, or am I way off base.

While the general idea seems functional, it's always worth to note that as of the errata, unarmed strike is not a weapon and thus booming blade doesn't work with unarmed strike. Now, obviously if you just prefer to use a monk weapon anyway, this won't be a problem.

[Solovar]

When it comes to magic items. besides armour which I am wearing, what would be a good item for a cleric oriented towards death domain?

[Yorrin]

Monk 5/Cleric 8

As has already been stated this can work just fine with Monk weapons. Keep in mind, however, that by going this far in each you're likely to miss out on the best features of each. Also note that the SCAG cantrips do override your extra attacks from Monk, making it less synergistic than you might like.

When it comes to magic items. besides armour which I am wearing, what would be a good item for a cleric oriented towards death domain?

As I also said in reply to your PM on the subject, magic weapons are nice, but a Cleric can certainly make do without them for most builds. Utility is going to be your friend here, and most of the most useful items are ones that are useful regardless of class. The one that immediately springs to mind because I just gave it to my players is a decanter of endless water, which is an item with innumerable uses for a creative player. But there are dozens of such items out there, for the savvy Cleric to take advantage of.

[Blue Wizrobe]

Yorrin & all, thanks for the hours of work and really deep theory discussion that have gone into this thread. It has been extremely helpful for me!

I started playing a 5e Cleric a little over a month ago. I wanted to make more of a caster cleric than a melee cleric, and between the Light and Knowledge domains (I did not have SCAG at the time) I've always been partial toward Loremasters of Oghma. So I picked up the Knowledge domain and have enjoyed it (currently 5th level, Clr 5.) I'm playing primarily as a Battlefield Controller, as this was easily my favorite party-role in 4e, so my spell selections are in-line with that philosophy - buffing, imposing penalties, etc. I don't see a lot of online support for "control clerics", I'll grant that there are definitely classes that have an ostensibly bigger controller toolkit, but if you take into account that BC also includes adding +'s to your side, in addition to all the -'s applied to the enemy that tend to get more focus, the net result of the controller Cleric is a great swing in the party's favor.

Anyway, I'm jumping in to the conversation to pose a multiclassing question. Whenever anyone talks about a Clr/Sor multiclass, it's usually the Tempest/Storm combo, or something mixed with Divine Soul. I'm less concerned about the Sorcerer sub-class specifics and far more interested in the Metamagic abilites available from Sor 3. In particular, Heighten and Extend, for the buff duration and potentially clutch imposition benefits. Does Clr 17/Sor 3 seem more beneficial than Clr 20 for a BC role? Even though I'm not a blaster by trade, Sacred Flame still gets a workout pretty frequently - even with Sorcerer cantrips, am I better off holding out until level 9 to take the MC dip to get Potent Spellcasting at 8 (we are approaching 6th level now.) I can't imagine this is a new idea, I just didn't see really any existing conversations around it already.

[rhombism]

Anyway, I'm jumping in to the conversation to pose a multiclassing question. Whenever anyone talks about a Clr/Sor multiclass, it's usually the Tempest/Storm combo, or something mixed with Divine Soul. I'm less concerned about the Sorcerer sub-class specifics and far more interested in the Metamagic abilites available from Sor 3. In particular, Heighten and Extend, for the buff duration and potentially clutch imposition benefits. Does Clr 17/Sor 3 seem more beneficial than Clr 20 for a BC role? Even though I'm not a blaster by trade, Sacred Flame still gets a workout pretty frequently - even with Sorcerer cantrips, am I better off holding out until level 9 to take the MC dip to get Potent Spellcasting at 8 (we are approaching 6th level now.) I can't imagine this is a new idea, I just didn't see really any existing conversations around it already.

I'm a light cleric at 9 now, and finding that I'm pretty capped out. I hadn't really considered multiclassing, but now am, and this is one of the options I was looking at. I thought about dipping fighter, but getting better at fighting doesn't seem like a reasonable deal now that I have Sacred Flame with Potent. I can reliably do more damage with that than with any melee attack, and even with an action surge it still requires two attacks. The sorcerer dip though would get material improvements to the spells that matter. I'm less of a battlefield controller than a blaster, but being able to throw a second fireball as an action using Quickened Spell, or dropping two bad guys with Twinned would be awesome. I think the trick for me would be getting the DM to agree that I could now suddenly discover my magical roots, as it were, and become a sorceror, since that's supposed to be innate.

Interested in what others think also.

Oops, just realized, I only have a 12 charisma and you need a 13 to multiclass into Sorcerer... So couldn't consider Sorcerer dip until 13, 14, 15 if I took the bump at 12.

[Yorrin]

Yorrin & all, thanks for the hours of work and really deep theory discussion that have gone into this thread. It has been extremely helpful for me!

Thanks! Glad to be of help.

Clr 17/Sor 3

For BFC the Sorc dip is definitely superior to straight Cleric in a 20th level build! That being said, the "when" of it is a lot trickier of an issue. The breakpoints in Cleric could be after any level in which you get new spells, as well as 8th for the damage increase. Some domains really rely on their other domain features as additional break points, but as a Knowledge Cleric you don't really need anything desperately. Though honestly unless you feel the need you could continue to push off the dip, because until level 17 Cleric keeps getting goodies that make you want to stick with it.

[biddlecom]

Hello,

Im new and trying to figure out how this below build is able to where heavy armor at first level?

Hill Dwarf Life Cleric 20
Wis 16, Str 15, Con 15, Dex 10, Cha 10, Int 8
Using a variation of the Str/Wis array (dropping a point from Con to add to Str). Dwarven weapon proficiency means you can go Battleaxe + Shield + Heavy Armor and be a melee brute/tank in addition to the best healer in the game. Bump Wis and Str up to 20 and Con to 16 with your ability increases for a straightforward build that doesn't use any "optional" rules and is effective in pretty much any party.

[Rysto]

Life Clerics (along with Tempest and War) gain proficiency in heavy armour. It's listed in the descriptions of the individual domains.

[biddlecom]

Life Clerics (along with Tempest and War) gain proficiency in heavy armour. It's listed in the descriptions of the individual domains.

Thank you very much.

[Blue Wizrobe]

Some domains really rely on their other domain features as additional break points, but as a Knowledge Cleric you don't really need anything desperately. Though honestly unless you feel the need you could continue to push off the dip, because until level 17 Cleric keeps getting goodies that make you want to stick with it.

Great! My go-to concentration effects are Bane for 2-4 enemies (gets really nasty when the Blindness starts spreading in the subsequent rounds), Spirit Guardians for 5+ (assuming they're tightly packed), and Bestow Curse for single targets (barring anything that might make Bless better like a high AC monster or something that forces a lot of saving throws) So looking at what I can do with those spells at higher level slots, I *think* I will stay pure Clr until level 9, to get access to Contagion and casting Bestow Curse as a 5th level spell (not to mention Raise Dead.. you know, just in case) and then dip Sor for character levels 10, 11 & 12.

Plus, staying pure Clr for a bit gets me the Read Thoughts ability at 6 to play around with, which I'm at least intrigued by - maybe not salivating over or anything but I can see uses for it. And of course the aforementioned Sacred Flame buff at 8... although most of the time I think I'd probably rather prefer to drop a Minor Illusion once I've mc'ed.

I guess that makes Dragon the best choice for sub-class? Not enough thunder/lightning effects to capitalize on Storm Sorc, already have domain spells so I don't see what Favored Soul would get me really, and having played in a group with a Wild Sorc, while it IS hilarious.... no. Just no. I could use the AC bump anyway. As you might guess, with enough bonuses to WIS to be an effective caster cleric, CHA to make a Sor multiclass viable, INT to pull off a Knowledge Cleric concept sufficiently, and STR so as not to be almost encumbered by just my armor alone, my DEX and CON aren't as high as I'd normally prefer to see them. So, even a little AC assistance goes a ways.