The Devout and the Dead: a guide to Clerics

[SharkForce]

Honestly... you're better off going single class of either. Full casters are pretty dependent on spell access for staying "on-curve." The multi could work with very specific setups: for example use arcana to get a cantrip that is boosted by draconic sorcerer, so that at Cleric 8/Sorc 6 you're getting +Wis and +Cha... but you're focusing a build on cantrip damage at that point, which is something that only Warlocks should focus on.

honestly, cleric spells don't curve nearly as much once you get beyond a certain point. adding metamagic to a cleric is pretty good, and you'll continue to progress your spell slots at full rate anyways.

[Yorrin]

honestly, cleric spells don't curve nearly as much once you get beyond a certain point. adding metamagic to a cleric is pretty good, and you'll continue to progress your spell slots at full rate anyways.

Fair point, though I'd want to hit that "certain point" before going too deep into a multiclass. For Cleric, I'd say that's about level 14, leaving just enough for Sorc 6 on the build in question, which is a pretty decent overall build. But I'd rather be, for example, a Cleric 14 than a Cleric 8/Sorc 6 at level 14.

[Elric VIII]

Honestly... you're better off going single class of either. Full casters are pretty dependent on spell access for staying "on-curve." The multi could work with very specific setups: for example use arcana to get a cantrip that is boosted by draconic sorcerer, so that at Cleric 8/Sorc 6 you're getting +Wis and +Cha... but you're focusing a build on cantrip damage at that point, which is something that only Warlocks should focus on.

Good point, thanks for the advice. I think I get too caught up in trying to use metamagic on non-sorcerers. Damn I miss those feats.

[Dudu]

Don't quit on your multiclassing idea yet. I, for one, think most clerics benefit from multiclassing. Most of the time, the nature of the MC is dipping, but in your case, the 7 levels of sorcerer might pay off.

Check what you gain and what you miss first.

For example, for offensive cleric spells of lvl 7, I arrived to the conclusion that the most damaging and efficient use of a lvl 7 spell slot is using Spirit Guardians lvl 7. You don't miss that by going Sorcerer.

Meanwhile, you can subtle spell to cast while grappled or silence, which is golden for a cleric in melee, or buffing your rogue in a stealth mission. You can twin that Healing Word to bring two friends to consciousness. Or more broken yet, twin Contagion. I didn't even delve into the possibilities.
Oh, and Tempest Cleric plus Storm Sorcerer is silly. Maximize your lightning bolt, for example. Yeah...

Now, on what you definitely miss by not reaching lvl 15 of cleric, the list might be big. The first thing I think about clerics reaching lvl 15 is the Holy Aura spell, which is big, perhaps the best defensive party buff in the game.

[Pyramid Pug]

Sup folks, been reading up on clerics here and elsewhere and decided to register 'cause I'm in a bit of a conundrum with my character.

I'm currently playing a hill dwarf with the following stats:

14 str
11 dex
16 con
13 int
20 wis
11 char

I'm a lvl 8 War cleric (just levelled the last session and tho I rolled for health, I didn't spend the attribute increase yet) and I have a magical warhammer (related to my character story so I can't just drop it in favor of something else) and a shield. I've read the guide and other threads and I try to use the spirit guardians + spiritual weapon combo. For feats I pick Observant at lvl 4 to bump my wis to 20.

My problem is.. I feel.. unsatisfied. My party has a rogue and a barbarian and obviously I don't expect to do as well in melee as them, but quite honestly I'm doing terrible as I miss all the time and when I do hit, the damage ain't that great. I know I have my channel divinity, but I usually save that for the barbarian (rage+ frenzy+ reckless attack+ GSM).

The way I see it, being a War cleric focuses me more on the melee aspect (other domains are better at healing or casting), but my melee is quite honestly bad atm. I could bump my STR to 20 but that would take a long time and all of my attribute increases. Alternatively I thought of picking magical initiate for shillelagh so I could be less MAD (both in the acronym and the adjective). I even considered changing domains.

I'm really at a loss at how can I make my character more effective. I'm also considering dipping into fighter as well.

Can you folks bounce some ideas my way?

[GorogIrongut]

Gauntlets of Ogre Strength... And take the Lucky feat. Then you'll start hitting all day long. And, Lucky is usable in every aspect of the game and not just for making melee attacks.

[Arkhios]

Boost your Strength from now on. You don't need (nor can you) to boost wisdom any further, and since it's not certain you could get gauntlets of ogre power just by thinking about it, actually increasing the attribute is your best bet.

@GorogIrongut: I know you mean well, but not every DM is keen about having Magic Marts where players could buy whatever they come up with, if anything at all. Finding Magic Items is part of the fun. Being able to buy whatever you want spoils that fun for many people.

[Yorrin]

I'm really at a loss at how can I make my character more effective. I'm also considering dipping into fighter as well.

Yeah, especially in a party with both Barbarian and Rogue you're always going to feel outpaced in melee. It might be more helpful to think of yourself as a melee caster rather than a bruiser. Unlike the Barb and Rogue you've got Spirit Guardians to handle AoE.

Unfortunately War Cleric synergizes better with a two hander, so maybe talk to your DM about your legacy weapon becoming a Maul (via the power of your ancestors, because Dwarf dangit) and then picking up Great Weapon Master? You're still going to want Str boosts for the rest of your levels otherwise, but that will help you not feel totally useless in melee. You also just hit the +1d8 on your damage, so that will help too.

[Pyramid Pug]

Thanks for the brainstorming folks. Yeah Magic items are nice but it's not something I can count on happening that specifically.

I figured as much.. two(ish) more questions then..

1) What about multiclassing? Taking levels in Fighter or maybe even alt my cleric progression and go full fighter? Even with barely passable brains taking the rest of my levels as EK would give me an extra stat bump than I would as a cleric as well as still having spell slot progression somewhat, plus the abilities to summon my weapon and smacking vulnerabilities to spells to my enemies? Or perhaps Warlock making a pact with the spirit within my weapon? My Char is poo-poo tho..

2)What other roles could I take in melee other than damage, battlefield control? tanking? How could I achieve that with either remaining cleric or dipping into other classes (likely fighter). I already have a decent armor and shield (if poopy reactions), currently at 20 AC.

[Elric VIII]

Thanks for the brainstorming folks. Yeah Magic items are nice but it's not something I can count on happening that specifically.

I figured as much.. two(ish) more questions then..

1) What about multiclassing? Taking levels in Fighter or maybe even alt my cleric progression and go full fighter? Even with barely passable brains taking the rest of my levels as EK would give me an extra stat bump than I would as a cleric as well as still having spell slot progression somewhat, plus the abilities to summon my weapon and smacking vulnerabilities to spells to my enemies? Or perhaps Warlock making a pact with the spirit within my weapon? My Char is poo-poo tho..

2)What other roles could I take in melee other than damage, battlefield control? tanking? How could I achieve that with either remaining cleric or dipping into other classes (likely fighter). I already have a decent armor and shield (if poopy reactions), currently at 20 AC.

One option is puting that 8th level bump into Cha and multiclassing paladin. 2 levels gets you smite and a combat style while only losing 1 level of spell slot progression.

[Gignere]

Thanks for the brainstorming folks. Yeah Magic items are nice but it's not something I can count on happening that specifically.

I figured as much.. two(ish) more questions then..

1) What about multiclassing? Taking levels in Fighter or maybe even alt my cleric progression and go full fighter? Even with barely passable brains taking the rest of my levels as EK would give me an extra stat bump than I would as a cleric as well as still having spell slot progression somewhat, plus the abilities to summon my weapon and smacking vulnerabilities to spells to my enemies? Or perhaps Warlock making a pact with the spirit within my weapon? My Char is poo-poo tho..

2)What other roles could I take in melee other than damage, battlefield control? tanking? How could I achieve that with either remaining cleric or dipping into other classes (likely fighter). I already have a decent armor and shield (if poopy reactions), currently at 20 AC.

I don't think you should try and compete in melee but you can get better just by getting a +2 to strength. Up cast spirit Weapon and guardian and you'll be rolling so many d8s the melee will be jealous. Against BBEG you can drop 4d8 + 3d8 +5 + 2d8 +4 if it all hits. I don't see this being any weaker than the Barbarian or rogue.

[Pyramid Pug]

And back home from work. Thanks to a boo-boo on my part when I registered, I couldn't get the password on my tablet so while I could read the replies, I couldn't answer back, anyways...


While talking to my barbarian friend during my shift (was a quiet night, I do the graveyard shift), I had an epiphany and this is what I thought of.

-Confirm the lvl 8 as a cleric and bump strenght bringing it to 16.

Then for the next levels, multiclass as a fighter thus getting me Action surge, extra attacks, stat bumps (to strenght) and fighting style. At fighter lvl 3, pick Eldricht Knight which would give me:

-Continued spell slot progression
-Ability to summon my weapon (which is an integral part of my character story)
-Giving weakness to magical attack upon being face smashed

Of course magic wise with 10 int I wouldn't do much, which is why I'd pick spells that don't rely on int, such as:

-Mage hand (to pick and trigger stuff from a safe distance)
-Message (can't go wrong with being able to discreetly talk to the party)
- Maybe blade ward

And for lvl 1 spells

-Magic missile (auto hit and non int dependent)
-Shield (reaction and +5 to ac, sweet Clangedin how is this a lvl 1 spell?!)
-Familiar (let me see.. stealth, scouting, able to deliver cure wounds at a distance.. I'll take a baker's dozen please!)

On top of this its my weapon.. now I've said its an integral part of my character (related to and possibly inhabited by the dead missus), and it's an evolving magical weapon, it has grown more powerful as I levelled. What I'm considering is something.. well homebrewed but in my eyes, fluffy and in character, which is asking my DM if he can add the thrown property to it.

The weapon is a warhammer (I usually one-hand it with a shield) and though thrown hammers are usually light hammers I think it wouldn't be too gamebreaking. I mean I'm not throwing great mauls or swords or anything. That couple with the EK ability to summon back the weapon would.. well basically give me a mjolnir lol

This would enable me to use my strenght on a ranged attack, plus it would be affected by fighting style archery (still not sure if I should pick that for the hit or duelist for the damage).

I think it would be a more fluffy way to fix the character rather than simply changing domains on a whim or dropping a weapon so crucial to the character.

What do you folks think?

[Mortis_Elrod]

Dwarven Thrower is a very rare (requires qttunement from a dwarf) warhammer.
+3 to hit and damage
Thrown property 20/60
When thrown does +1d8 or if target is a giant +2d8
Immediately after thrown returns to hand

It's in the DMG on page 167. I'm sure you can ask your DM to get you one of these or a lesser version that doesn't have the giant bane, +3 , and extra 1d8 when thrown.

A simple thrown 20/60, flies back to hand after thrown magic war hammer would probably be uncommon. Maybe rare if you add +1 or +2 to hit and damage


If. Your DM isn't up for that, take tavern brawler at some point, so you can throw your warhammer as an improvised weapon, then use EK to summon it back (like you suggest). Doesn't work very well with extra attack but meh not a lot you can do there.

[Pyramid Pug]

Dwarven Thrower is a very rare (requires qttunement from a dwarf) warhammer.
+3 to hit and damage
Thrown property 20/60
When thrown does +1d8 or if target is a giant +2d8
Immediately after thrown returns to hand

It's in the DMG on page 167. I'm sure you can ask your DM to get you one of these or a lesser version that doesn't have the giant bane, +3 , and extra 1d8 when thrown.

A simple thrown 20/60, flies back to hand after thrown magic war hammer would probably be uncommon. Maybe rare if you add +1 or +2 to hit and damage


If. Your DM isn't up for that, take tavern brawler at some point, so you can throw your warhammer as an improvised weapon, then use EK to summon it back (like you suggest). Doesn't work very well with extra attack but meh not a lot you can do there.

Well I'm a dorf so.. lol

The idea was to keep using my magical warhammer as it is a part of my character (the story behind it is that the spirit of my dead wife is forged somehow in it making it grow, it's also aware somewhat as one time gave a pang of pain when I hit a ooze with it). I'm really reluctant to use any other weapon (plus my Dm already made it really good). I'll ask him to take a look at the dwarven thrower tho.

Oh yeah bit of a side note, my barbarian friend asked me to ask you folks if you know of any programs/ apps that let you create and manage player sheets.

*edit*

More of an experience of mine using cantrips. I actually use Mending a lot, usually to repair rusted hinges on doors and windows so the party can enter undetected. It's a fun use of it tho I don't actually know if it affects anything or not. It's one less loud noise that might alert someone to the presence of the party.

[Arkhios]

Pyramid Pug: I would consider taking 9th level in Cleric at some point because your group will appreciate it if you can cast Raise Dead. And the Destructive Wave domain spell is goddarn awesome.

[Pyramid Pug]

Pyramid Pug: I would consider taking 9th level in Cleric at some point because your group will appreciate it if you can cast Raise Dead. And the Destructive Wave domain spell is goddarn awesome.

Just got word from my DM and he approved the upgrade to the warhammer, it will now be a thrown weapon, NICE!!

I'd need to sacrifice a stat bump to get Raise dead which I need due to my "low" strenght. Also Destructive Wave is a Tempest Domain and I'm War (it is indeed awesome tho, in fact the whole tempest domain rocks.. well thunders anyway!)

*Edit*

I admit that flame pillar is tempting tho..

[Arkhios]

Just got word from my DM and he approved the upgrade to the warhammer, it will now be a thrown weapon, NICE!!

I'd need to sacrifice a stat bump to get Raise dead which I need due to my "low" strenght. Also Destructive Wave is a Tempest Domain and I'm War (it is indeed awesome tho, in fact the whole tempest domain rocks.. well thunders anyway!)

*Edit*

I admit that flame pillar is tempting tho..

Argh, I mixed up the two domains with their spells! It was probably because War domain had a few of the best paladin-only spells, so my mind made a trick on me thinking it would have Destructive Wave. Though Flame Strike is really nice spell too. But Raise Dead is a life-saver (duh! xD)

[Pyramid Pug]

Argh, I mixed up the two domains with their spells! It was probably because War domain had a few of the best paladin-only spells, so my mind made a trick on me thinking it would have Destructive Wave. Though Flame Strike is really nice spell too. But Raise Dead is a life-saver (duh! xD)

Yeah I often joke with my barbarian friend that I should switch to tempest, he should switch to totem warrior and pick eagle and we should form Faerun's aerial defense force lol

Got some feedback from another place that got me thinking I should stick to cleric and only dip 2 levels into fighter for the action surge and fighting style. Bloke bounced some ideas with me saying that EK wouldn't do much for me. TBH he does have a point and honestly in previous editions I never fancied deep multiclassing much.

Honestly War domain feels somewhat lackluster.. I think we should have access to a fighting style as part of our domain features. I guess I'd like War to be a more memorable domain like Tempest, Light or Life.

[Dudu]

Yeah I often joke with my barbarian friend that I should switch to tempest, he should switch to totem warrior and pick eagle and we should form Faerun's aerial defense force lol

That looks pretty dope, actually.

Tempest Cleric was my very first character in 5.0. And weirdly enough, one of my strongest. Years and years playing dnd made me keen to see which builds were a cut above the rest, and tempest seemed to have the ingredients.

Tempest is: fun, flavourful and powerful. Love it.

Got some feedback from another place that got me thinking I should stick to cleric and only dip 2 levels into fighter for the action surge and fighting style. Bloke bounced some ideas with me saying that EK wouldn't do much for me. TBH he does have a point and honestly in previous editions I never fancied deep multiclassing much.

You know what I think when people tell me they want to multiclass fighter with a caster?

Start with fighter. One level in fighter, for heavy armor proficiency and con save proficiency. It's huge, really. You're not getting any of this if this isn't your first level.

You can, of course, grab heavy armor prof from the War Cleric later. And con save prof from Resilient Con, but that's feat investment.

Honestly War domain feels somewhat lackluster.. I think we should have access to a fighting style as part of our domain features. I guess I'd like War to be a more memorable domain like Tempest, Light or Life.

Ok, here's my opinion, so take it exactly like that, an opinion.

Yes, War is lackluster. Why? Because cleric are barely passable meleers. They pale so much in comparison with fully dedicated melee builds. The War cleric is, above everything else, a caster, a cleric, with a modicum of melee prowess slapped on. War and Trickery are the two domains I consider the weakest. Trickery might be stronger depending on how creative is the player and how much DM allows it to be strong.

Tempest is a blast. Literally. One that I consider in the power trio of domains. The other two being Arcana and Nature.

Life is good. Not the best, not the worst. You're better in what your table likely believes you're supposed to be doing. Healing. Specially good on mass cure stuff.

Light is overrated. You're blasty, but not in such a mean way that the "oh, I'm maxing this Lightning" Tempest cleric is. You can launch fireballs, which is fancy, but gets old quickly. Fireball is a beast as soon as you can cast it, but afterwards it doesn't scale very well. He can use his channel divinity for some toned down blast. Not a weak domain, for anything, I consider it stronger than War, for example.

But most importantly. The choice of domain won't be enough to make you "weak". You are, no matter what, a cleric. And the cleric chassis is as strong as it gets. I keep repeating this, "play on the every cleric tool, and you'll be a good cleric, no matter what". It's much more about learning cleric's role and strenghts (like, not falling into the trap that you're supposed to use all your resources to cure your friends in combat) than chosing the strongest domain.

The reason I'm particularly picky about War Domain is because clerics are never spectacular meleers. They are simply not. You can give then martial proficiency and a divine strike once a round, yeah, still, not impressive. I still see people picking War domain in hopes they will build a dope melee reaver but they are bound to be disappointed. It was likely a design choice, to not make the cleric overshadow other classes, we are, afterall, past 3.5 and the concept of "I'm a full caster and better at fighting than the fighter" of a cleric. Thank the gods (of all pantheons).

[MeeposFire]

That looks pretty dope, actually.

Tempest Cleric was my very first character in 5.0. And weirdly enough, one of my strongest. Years and years playing dnd made me keen to see which builds were a cut above the rest, and tempest seemed to have the ingredients.

Tempest is: fun, flavourful and powerful. Love it.


You know what I think when people tell me they want to multiclass fighter with a caster?

Start with fighter. One level in fighter, for heavy armor proficiency and con save proficiency. It's huge, really. You're not getting any of this if this isn't your first level.

You can, of course, grab heavy armor prof from the War Cleric later. And con save prof from Resilient Con, but that's feat investment.


Ok, here's my opinion, so take it exactly like that, an opinion.

Yes, War is lackluster. Why? Because cleric are barely passable meleers. They pale so much in comparison with fully dedicated melee builds. The War cleric is, above everything else, a caster, a cleric, with a modicum of melee prowess slapped on. War and Trickery are the two domains I consider the weakest. Trickery might be stronger depending on how creative is the player and how much DM allows it to be strong.

Tempest is a blast. Literally. One that I consider in the power trio of domains. The other two being Arcana and Nature.

Life is good. Not the best, not the worst. You're better in what your table likely believes you're supposed to be doing. Healing. Specially good on mass cure stuff.

Light is overrated. You're blasty, but not in such a mean way that the "oh, I'm maxing this Lightning" Tempest cleric is. You can launch fireballs, which is fancy, but gets old quickly. Fireball is a beast as soon as you can cast it, but afterwards it doesn't scale very well. He can use his channel divinity for some toned down blast. Not a weak domain, for anything, I consider it stronger than War, for example.

But most importantly. The choice of domain won't be enough to make you "weak". You are, no matter what, a cleric. And the cleric chassis is as strong as it gets. I keep repeating this, "play on the every cleric tool, and you'll be a good cleric, no matter what". It's much more about learning cleric's role and strenghts (like, not falling into the trap that you're supposed to use all your resources to cure your friends in combat) than chosing the strongest domain.

The reason I'm particularly picky about War Domain is because clerics are never spectacular meleers. They are simply not. You can give then martial proficiency and a divine strike once a round, yeah, still, not impressive. I still see people picking War domain in hopes they will build a dope melee reaver but they are bound to be disappointed. It was likely a design choice, to not make the cleric overshadow other classes, we are, afterall, past 3.5 and the concept of "I'm a full caster and better at fighting than the fighter" of a cleric. Thank the gods (of all pantheons).

Also Tempest is also almost as good (honestly I say at least as god) as war with weapons and it is so thematic to find a way to get booming blade in there and that helps make them better (though not quite as good as a dedicated melee weapon class but you should not be anyway). Yea war can take it too but yea tempest has really great benefits to boot and booming blade just fits so well with it.

[Elric VIII]

The reason I'm particularly picky about War Domain is because clerics are never spectacular meleers. They are simply not. You can give then martial proficiency and a divine strike once a round, yeah, still, not impressive. I still see people picking War domain in hopes they will build a dope melee reaver but they are bound to be disappointed. It was likely a design choice, to not make the cleric overshadow other classes, we are, afterall, past 3.5 and the concept of "I'm a full caster and better at fighting than the fighter" of a cleric. Thank the gods (of all pantheons).

Oddly enough, Arcana is probably the strongest melee domain with the SCAG cantrips paired with Spirit Guardians and Warcaster. Go with a Dex build and you're 1 AC behind full plate while forcing some unlucky SOB to either eat Spirit Guardians every turn or take a double shot of Booming Blade. It's like a Sentinel/PAM fighter that gets full casting.

It's a little tight on the ASIs, but even before it gets fully up and running you're still a cleric.

[8wGremlin]

A vhuman who takes magic initiate Druid for shillelagh, thorn whip and absorb element can be quite the power house.

Now with the Tortle (wowidk) you have a new contender AC 19 Shell'n'shield, Str, Wis = 16 Con = 14
You don't really need the magic initiate Druid anymore.

Just take booming blade, chill touch as your choices.

And take warcaster as your feat at 4th.

Done

[Gignere]

A vhuman who takes magic initiate Druid for shillelagh, thorn whip and absorb element can be quite the power house.

Now with the Tortle (wowidk) you have a new contender AC 19 Shell'n'shield, Str, Wis = 16 Con = 14
You don't really need the magic initiate Druid anymore.

Just take booming blade, chill touch as your choices.

And take warcaster as your feat at 4th.

Done

The problem of Cleric melee is that you need to max two stats instead of one, without Shillelagh. Tortles doesn't change the equation.

[solidork]

My current campaign arc has been really interesting in that it has solidified one of my War Cleric's role as an information gatherer. Between Sending, Speak with Dead, Commune, Legend Lore and Scrying we've been able to find out so much stuff that would be impossible otherwise.

I've been sort of miffed that my combat strategy hasn't really evolved past casting either Spirit Guardians or Banishment, compared to the other casters in our group. But the information gathering has been really strong on an axis that most other people don't really register on.

As far as War Cleric in combat discussion: I've got a magic item that lets me cast Booming Blade so I can keep up more than a normal War Cleric could. My at will damage would be pretty unimpressive without it, though.

[8wGremlin]

The problem of Cleric melee is that you need to max two stats instead of one, without Shillelagh. Tortles doesn't change the equation.

Very true, which is why I called it a contender.
Whilst not as versatile and my standard Arcane Cleric vHuman build, the simpler Tortle build does have AC 19 with shell'n'shield. That bonus alone isn't to be sniffed at.

A normal vHuman Arcana cleric will put dex at 14 to get synergy with medium armour, and then take MI: druid for shillelagh, thornwhip and Absorb Elements. DEX + scale mail + shield = 2+14+2 = 18 a very good AC

The Tortle has AC19 shell, and a shield, plus the and has no investment in dex any longer.

I still prefer the vHuman over this, but I think this slots in nicely as 2nd place.

[Yorrin]

I've added my official Tortle review to the guide. Overall, they're kinda "meh." Not terrible, but not a top tier pick either.

[Arkhios]

I've added my official Tortle review to the guide. Overall, they're kinda "meh." Not terrible, but not a top tier pick either.

...wtf is tortle?

[Yorrin]

...wtf is tortle?

New turtle based race that WotC put out to raise money for charity. It's a Str/Wis race with innate racial armor (but can't wear conventional armor), and some other thematically turtle-y things. Also Survival proficiency, which is one of their better features, tbh. They're intended to be druids, lore-wise, but end up being... just okay at that and pretty much everything else.

[Elric VIII]

The problem of Cleric melee is that you need to max two stats instead of one, without Shillelagh. Tortles doesn't change the equation.

Clerics get by reasonably well with two 18s. A Wood Elf can get a dex primary cleric with 18s using only 2 ASIs. A Vuman can do Str or Dex with 3 ASIs, but gets Warcaster at 1. The trick is to decide whether you want to be better at melee or cleric-ing early, rather than trying to bump both stats equally. You come fully online at level 12, but it's not like you're useless early.

[rooneg]

They're intended to be druids, lore-wise, but end up being... just okay at that and pretty much everything else.

I don't know, the ability to have reasonable AC without putting points into DEX is pretty cool for a Circle of the Land Druid. Sure, the STR bonus is probably a waste, but it seems like a pretty reasonable Druid race to me.

Agreed that they're a pretty meh option for Clerics though. Most of the domains that want a high STR also give you Heavy Armor Proficiency, and that's just completely wasted for a Tortle.