The Devout and the Dead: a guide to Clerics

[enetari]

Hi guyz !!
First, Thanks a lot for this great guide ! I'm loving it !
I would like some advices about my character's creation:
I'm going to play in Curse of Strahd and this is the composition of my party :
archer fighter // 2 handed fighter // wizard.

So Cleric in my opinion is a good choice for melee (help the warrior) and some heals (out of fight).
But I don't know which domain is the best for this situation and the race...
We are starting lvl 1 and i rolled this : 16/16/14/14/14/13.
Can you help me?
Thanks a lot !

[Yorrin]

Hi guyz !!
First, Thanks a lot for this great guide ! I'm loving it !

You're Welcome! Glad you're enjoying it

I would like some advices about my character's creation:
I'm going to play in Curse of Strahd and this is the composition of my party :
archer fighter // 2 handed fighter // wizard.

So Cleric in my opinion is a good choice for melee (help the warrior) and some heals (out of fight).
But I don't know which domain is the best for this situation and the race...
We are starting lvl 1 and i rolled this : 16/16/14/14/14/13.
Can you help me?
Thanks a lot !

Yeah, Cleric is rivaled only by Paladin for best class in Ravenloft, imo. Do you know the playstyle of your Wizard? It is always good for casters to be complimentary in any given party. That being said, there are a few generalizations that can be made.

Life jumps to mind immediately for the setting. More heals are always welcome, and it helps with spell slot efficiency. Forge would also be a great fit in Ravenloft, as you can be a passable frontliner with good party support options. With two fighters your party won't be lacking for consistent damage, so Light and Tempest are probably unnecessary. Death or Grave could be really fun, depending on how your DM wants to work that into the campaign. Beyond that- Cleric is just a great class in general for the setting so you can't really go wrong. But yeah- Life and Forge would be my top picks. Both of those work really well with Dwarves, who bring poison resist, darkvision, and some melee weapon proficiencies to the table- all of which are useful in Ravenloft. Half Orc could also be really useful, especially their Relentless Endurance feature.

[enetari]

My wizard go for school of abjuration or evocation.
With my stats is it better to play a mountain or hill dwarf for life // forge cleric?
I would like to go like this:
16 STR 14 CON 16 WIS 14 DEX 13 INT 14 CHA
What is the best for my lvl 4?
Thanks a lot !

[dgnslyr]

My wizard go for school of abjuration or evocation.
With my stats is it better to play a mountain or hill dwarf for life // forge cleric?
I would like to go like this:
16 STR 14 CON 16 WIS 14 DEX 13 INT 14 CHA
What is the best for my lvl 4?
Thanks a lot !

The odd point of WIS you get from being a Hill Dwarf doesn't line up that well with your stat line, unless you take a half-feat at some point to round it out. At that point, though, the benefit you get from a WIS half-feat doesn't seem better than a straight ASI in CON, though, so the volume of stats from being a Mountain Dwarf seems better.

As for a feat, I like Magic Initiate(Wizard) for Find Familiar, and the cantrips Booming Blade and Green-Flame Blade. Having a familiar means permanent Owlvantage on everything, and the Blade cantrips give you some extra punch in melee combat.

[DevilMcam]

I would go light cleric, but I may be biased.

Light cleric gets Faery fire at level one, it does have to compete with bless, but it's amazing, the fighters will love it.
warding flare lets you help protect yourself or your frontliners, radiance of dawn lets you blast and heal, during the same turn (and it's radiant).
Should you need that extra blasty blasty boom, you get fireall to assist the wizard.

[Yorrin]

My wizard go for school of abjuration or evocation.
With my stats is it better to play a mountain or hill dwarf for life // forge cleric?
I would like to go like this:
16 STR 14 CON 16 WIS 14 DEX 13 INT 14 CHA
What is the best for my lvl 4?
Thanks a lot !

Yeah, The +2Str is more relevant than the +1 Wis for your stat line. As for the feat- I'd either go with Warcaster or +2Wis.

[Trustypeaches]

You should probably update the description for the Death Domain's "Reaper" feature to include Toll the Dead, the cleric's best damage cantrip.

[enetari]

Yeah, The +2Str is more relevant than the +1 Wis for your stat line. As for the feat- I'd either go with Warcaster or +2Wis.

Thanks :) Does Ceremony (spell lvl.1) is good for curse of strahd or protection from evil?

I'm going to life cleric with :
spell 0 : guidance / sacred flame / toll the dead.
spell 1 : healing word / guided bolt / bless / cure wounds / sanctuary / ceremony
Is it good?

[Yorrin]

Thanks :) Does Ceremony (spell lvl.1) is good for curse of strahd or protection from evil?

I'm going to life cleric with :
spell 0 : guidance / sacred flame / toll the dead.
spell 1 : healing word / guided bolt / bless / cure wounds / sanctuary / ceremony
Is it good?

Ravenloft is a better setting than most for Ceremony, to be sure. This looks like a fine first level spell list. Damage, healing, support, utility- you've got it pretty well covered.

[Bel-Torac]

The dm will most like kill your 1 hp familiar if you use him in combat if you decide to take find Familiar. Let the wizard take it.

Build looks pretty solid, not sure how you could keep making holy water with no resources. Marrying people for +2 ac would be amazing.

[Strill]

Glaive/Halberd- for Polearm Master builds, which is honestly done better with other classes

Why in the world would you say that? Polearm Master gives you a bonus-action attack, a reaction attack, and lets you control the battlefield with your wide reach and threat. Why is a Cleric any worse with those tools than any other class? The only reasons I can think of are that Clerics don't get 2-handed fighting style, and have several good bonus-action spells already competing for their bonus-action slot, but those are some paltry nitpicks for a feat that can double or triple your DPR.

[Yorrin]

Why in the world would you say that? Polearm Master gives you a bonus-action attack, a reaction attack, and lets you control the battlefield with your wide reach and threat. Why is a Cleric any worse with those tools than any other class? The only reasons I can think of are that Clerics don't get 2-handed fighting style, and have several good bonus-action spells already competing for their bonus-action slot, but those are some paltry nitpicks for a feat that can double or triple your DPR.

Yeah, many classes actually get support for melee combat. Rage, fighting styles, even stuff like Hunter's Mark or Hex. Some Clerics get Divine Strike, but that is explicitly once per round. Clerics also don't get a second basic attack, which at higher levels makes committing to the Attack action a little rough, and as you've said we have better uses for our bonus action as well.

[HappyDaze]

Yeah, many classes actually get support for melee combat. Rage, fighting styles, even stuff like Hunter's Mark or Hex. Some Clerics get Divine Strike, but that is explicitly once per round. Clerics also don't get a second basic attack, which at higher levels makes committing to the Attack action a little rough, and as you've said we have better uses for our bonus action as well.

There's also the fact that only a few types of Clerics get martial weapon proficiency, and without it (so using a quarterstaff or spear), the reach advantage isn't there.

[Trustypeaches]

Just a small note, but you should probably mention Toll the Dead in the "Reaper" section of your overview on the Death Domain.

[Citadel97501]

Is Ensnaring Strike ever worth it for a Cleric? I was noticing that it was provided by the Azorius background in the Ravnica book. I am having trouble finding it useful though?

[BoringInfoGuy]

Why in the world would you say that? Polearm Master gives you a bonus-action attack, a reaction attack, and lets you control the battlefield with your wide reach and threat. Why is a Cleric any worse with those tools than any other class? The only reasons I can think of are that Clerics don't get 2-handed fighting style, and have several good bonus-action spells already competing for their bonus-action slot, but those are some paltry nitpicks for a feat that can double or triple your DPR.

The big reason is that Clerics are Primary castors, not Primary melee.

You can’t get the Polearm Master bonus attack the same round you cast a spell or use most Channel Divinity features.

Your Primary Stat is typically Wisdom, not Strength.

Barring a few domains like War, you are limited to Simple Weapons, and none of the simple polearm weapons have reach. War Domain has Spiritual Weapon as a domain spell. Bonus Action to get D4 plus Str modifier vs Bonus action to get 1d8 plus Wis modifier. Spiritual Weapon has greater range than reach weapons, and can be upcast for better damage.

In comparison, a Fighter who chooses to go Polearm Master would have Strength as their primary stat, so that is better base damage and hit chance. They are proficient in martial weapons by default. So that is access to higher damage weapons and reach. As they level, they get more attacks per round.

A Fighter would be attacking and using the bonus action attack pretty much every round, using their best stat, without needing to compete with their other class features. They can be using a reach weapon, giving them better battlefield control. They would also have fighting style support.

Also, on top of everything else, since Fighters get more feats, grabbing Polearm Master is a smaller investment of resources. There are other ASI uses that better suit Clerics. Upping your casting stat to max (more spells, higher save DCs, more potent effects), Resilent [Con] (Don’t lose concentration) are standouts. Grabbing Polearm Master uses a very limited resource and then adds a pull to use further ASIs to increase your Strength.

In short, Primary Melee classes find that Polearm Master has good synergies with thier class abilities, while the Cleric as a Primary Castor finds Polearm Master competes with their class abilities.

[Yorrin]

Just a small note, but you should probably mention Toll the Dead in the "Reaper" section of your overview on the Death Domain.

Good call, thanks.

Is Ensnaring Strike ever worth it for a Cleric? I was noticing that it was provided by the Azorius background in the Ravnica book. I am having trouble finding it useful though?

I wouldn't build around it. And frankly, there are better uses for your spell slot, as a Cleric. Maybe in some kind of Spirit Guardians enhanced lockdown scenario? Not sure.

[TourDeForce412]

Hey gang, I wanted to pick your brain about a stat prioritization issue I've come up against. I posted a few months ago about a domain that would do well at high levels, and opted to go with the Life domain. I'm hopping in the game at level 8, and for RP reasons have decided to be a half-orc. I’ll have plate armor, but no magic items — it’s a pretty low-magic game. My question is how to allocate by stats (27 point buy), and ASIs. For what it's worth, the rest of the party is a Diviner, a Moon druid, and a bladelock/fighter.

My first thought was to lean into the Strength, and by level 8 have an 18 Str, 15 Con, 16 Wis, and Magic Initiate for Booming Blade by level 8. The more I thought about it, however, the more it seemed a waste of an ASI to boost my melee damage by 1d8 when I would spend many more actions casting. Find Familiar and another cantrip were cool, but this isn’t the kind of game where a familiar would last long in combat, so not a ton of value there.

If I wasn’t going to go MI, Resilient (Con) seemed like a no-brainer; there’s nothing a cleric likes more than keeping up his sweet concentration spells. If I was going to prioritize Con for concentration checks, however, I wasn’t sure I needed an 18 Str, even if I planned on grabbing Booming Blade at level 12 or 16. If I go this route, I’d probably opt for an 16 in Str, 18 Con (including Resilient), and 16 Wis.

In either case I would at later levels take Wisdom to 20 and take either Warcaster or Magic Initiate for Booming Blade.

TL;DR — having trouble stating a level 8 half-orc Life Cleric. Options are 18-8-16-8-16-10 with Res (Con), or 16-8-18-8-16-10 with Res (Con). I thought about Magic Initiate for Booming Blade, am currently underwhelmed but might be interested in taking it later. Happy to entertain other ideas as well. Thanks!

[BoringInfoGuy]

Hey gang, I wanted to pick your brain about a stat prioritization issue I've come up against. I posted a few months ago about a domain that would do well at high levels, and opted to go with the Life domain. I'm hopping in the game at level 8, and for RP reasons have decided to be a half-orc. I’ll have plate armor, but no magic items — it’s a pretty low-magic game. My question is how to allocate by stats (27 point buy), and ASIs. For what it's worth, the rest of the party is a Diviner, a Moon druid, and a bladelock/fighter.

My first thought was to lean into the Strength, and by level 8 have an 18 Str, 15 Con, 16 Wis, and Magic Initiate for Booming Blade by level 8. The more I thought about it, however, the more it seemed a waste of an ASI to boost my melee damage by 1d8 when I would spend many more actions casting. Find Familiar and another cantrip were cool, but this isn’t the kind of game where a familiar would last long in combat, so not a ton of value there.

If I wasn’t going to go MI, Resilient (Con) seemed like a no-brainer; there’s nothing a cleric likes more than keeping up his sweet concentration spells. If I was going to prioritize Con for concentration checks, however, I wasn’t sure I needed an 18 Str, even if I planned on grabbing Booming Blade at level 12 or 16. If I go this route, I’d probably opt for an 16 in Str, 18 Con (including Resilient), and 16 Wis.

In either case I would at later levels take Wisdom to 20 and take either Warcaster or Magic Initiate for Booming Blade.

TL;DR — having trouble stating a level 8 half-orc Life Cleric. Options are 18-8-16-8-16-10 with Res (Con), or 16-8-18-8-16-10 with Res (Con). I thought about Magic Initiate for Booming Blade, am currently underwhelmed but might be interested in taking it later. Happy to entertain other ideas as well. Thanks!

I would recommend taking Resiliant Con. With an 18 Con, Plate, and Proficiency on Constitution saves, that would really help gaurantee that you will still be up (and maintaining a Concentration spell) after a nuke is dropped on the party. And with Blessed Healer and that Con score, you may want to consider using Warding Bond.

[Arkhios]

Find Familiar and another cantrip were cool, but this isn’t the kind of game where a familiar would last long in combat, so not a ton of value there.

FWIW, familiars are hardly intended as a combat companions anyway, but rather more as a utility tool for the caster.

[Yorrin]

Hey gang, I wanted to pick your brain about a stat prioritization issue I've come up against. I posted a few months ago about a domain that would do well at high levels, and opted to go with the Life domain. I'm hopping in the game at level 8, and for RP reasons have decided to be a half-orc. I’ll have plate armor, but no magic items — it’s a pretty low-magic game. My question is how to allocate by stats (27 point buy), and ASIs. For what it's worth, the rest of the party is a Diviner, a Moon druid, and a bladelock/fighter.

My first thought was to lean into the Strength, and by level 8 have an 18 Str, 15 Con, 16 Wis, and Magic Initiate for Booming Blade by level 8. The more I thought about it, however, the more it seemed a waste of an ASI to boost my melee damage by 1d8 when I would spend many more actions casting. Find Familiar and another cantrip were cool, but this isn’t the kind of game where a familiar would last long in combat, so not a ton of value there.

If I wasn’t going to go MI, Resilient (Con) seemed like a no-brainer; there’s nothing a cleric likes more than keeping up his sweet concentration spells. If I was going to prioritize Con for concentration checks, however, I wasn’t sure I needed an 18 Str, even if I planned on grabbing Booming Blade at level 12 or 16. If I go this route, I’d probably opt for an 16 in Str, 18 Con (including Resilient), and 16 Wis.

In either case I would at later levels take Wisdom to 20 and take either Warcaster or Magic Initiate for Booming Blade.

TL;DR — having trouble stating a level 8 half-orc Life Cleric. Options are 18-8-16-8-16-10 with Res (Con), or 16-8-18-8-16-10 with Res (Con). I thought about Magic Initiate for Booming Blade, am currently underwhelmed but might be interested in taking it later. Happy to entertain other ideas as well. Thanks!

Wis is a higher priority that Str, especially at mid to high levels. Given your build I would say Wis>Str>Con>Dex>other, though you could even opt for higher Con than Str. As much as I love Magic Initiate it's not as good for you as Res:Con.

[TourDeForce412]

Thanks for the help guys, I think you're right -- Resilient is the way to go. I'm just struggling with where to put the 18.

On one hand, I really like the idea being able to consistently land my Divine Strikes and occasionally grapple targets, especially since the Fighter relies on Shield Master to knock enemies prone. On the other hand, the DM in this game gives a level of exhaustion for hitting 0. That combined with the fact that it's generally best for the party if the cleric is the last one to go down makes me think that maxing my survivability is probably the play, but I really am loath to give up the old-school mace bashing, especially if I can still pick up Magic Initiate with a later ASI.

[Galadhrim]

Thanks for the help guys, I think you're right -- Resilient is the way to go. I'm just struggling with where to put the 18.

On one hand, I really like the idea being able to consistently land my Divine Strikes and occasionally grapple targets, especially since the Fighter relies on Shield Master to knock enemies prone. On the other hand, the DM in this game gives a level of exhaustion for hitting 0. That combined with the fact that it's generally best for the party if the cleric is the last one to go down makes me think that maxing my survivability is probably the play, but I really am loath to give up the old-school mace bashing, especially if I can still pick up Magic Initiate with a later ASI.

As a heavy armor melee cleric, I think your priorities are pumping your con save, and your wisdom. You'll have the most fun with an 18 wis and con prof.

You can still get away with using your mace old school with a 16 in str. Even if you are carrying the mace for aestetics, you won't use it much unless you just decide to gimp yourself because you enjoy that play style more.

[TourDeForce412]

As a heavy armor melee cleric, I think your priorities are pumping your con save, and your wisdom. You'll have the most fun with an 18 wis and con prof.

You can still get away with using your mace old school with a 16 in str. Even if you are carrying the mace for aestetics, you won't use it much unless you just decide to gimp yourself because you enjoy that play style more.

Unfortunately, because I chose half-orc the 18 has to be in Str or Con if I want Resilient! But your point is a good one -- I just won't spend that many actions swinging my mace.

[Galadhrim]

Unfortunately, because I chose half-orc the 18 has to be in Str or Con if I want Resilient! But your point is a good one -- I just won't spend that many actions swinging my mace.

Right, right. Even more reason to skip str. You want to get your wisdom to 16 for sure.

[TourDeForce412]

Right, right. Even more reason to skip str. You want to get your wisdom to 16 for sure.

Agreed! But if I take Res at 4, I can use the same ASI at 8 to bump either Str or Con to 18, depending on how I arrange the starting stats.

[Istriel]

Hello all,

Here for some advice on my somewhat irregular cleric build, which is my first D&D character ever. I have a Wis/Dex build Wood Elf Noble Life Cleric 6 that uses short sword and shield, so took War Caster at 4 of course. The build is pretty heavily influenced by the backstory of the character, which also explains how someone could be a cleric and a noble. If you guys are interested in the back story, I'll include it in a later post.

We rolled stats and I rolled pretty well.

After racial boosts I have this:

13 Str
16 Dex (14+2)
15 Con
14 Int
16 Wis (15+1)
12 Cha

Our group is 4: teifling bard, halfing monk, black dragonborn fighter (contracted lycanthropy then forced to attack the party by a demon then our bard made him run away for 8 straight hours, we assume he's pretty angry somewhere) human rogue to replace the dragonborn, and yours truly.

The party dynamics shifted a bit with the death of the fighter. I'm currently in the role of healer and tank. Our bard helps with healing if needed, but he typically is playing the support/CC role. My cleric has a narrative reason for using shield of faith instead of bless for his concentration (not the ideal, I know, but it makes sense for the character), so typically rocking a 20 AC from scale mail + shield + shield of faith. I also want to hold off using spirit guardians if I don't have to, again for narrative/backstory reasons. I'm sure once it becomes necessary I'll use SG, but for now we've been able to get by without it.

I'm definitely going to take resilience (CON) at lvl 8 and eventually boost Wis to 20, which leaves me with 1 extra ASI. I was thinking about taking medium armor master at 12 or 16 for the +1 AC boost and to get rid of the stealth disadvantage. Now from what I've read here so far, it doesn't seem like medium armor master is something that would typically be advised, but with this build I was wondering if that makes the most sense or if there is another route I'm not seeing, being a Newber McNewberson. Also, other advice in general would be appreciated, thanks!

tl;dr

Does medium armor master make sense for a Wis/Dex build cleric that has to tank, or are there a better options?

[Yorrin]

Does medium armor master make sense for a Wis/Dex build cleric that has to tank, or are there a better options?

Medium armor master isn't the worst option, but consider that bumping dex and going studded leather maintains your ac (vs half plate, which is better than what you have now) and removes the stealth penalty while improving dex saves and initiative. Your choice which to prioritize.

[Istriel]

bumping dex and going studded leather maintains your ac (vs half plate, which is better than what you have now) and removes the stealth penalty while improving dex saves and initiative. Your choice which to prioritize.

I'm slightly confused because before donning shield and casting shield of faith, studded leather with bumping Dex to 18 would be AC 16 (12+4), while half plate with med armor master would be 18 (15+3). Or am I missing something? Do you think that +1 to sword dmg, Dex saves, and initiative is a better upgrade than an additional 2 AC? Honestly asking since I've only experienced the low level game. Right now it seems like the consensus is that +1 dmg and initiative isn't really that big of a deal, so I guess what I'm asking is that is +1 to Dex saves in the mid-high level game overall better than a +2 to AC? I guess I could bump the Dex and grab half plate anyway for a 17 AC, but then I'd still have to deal with the stealth disadvantage, which seems to be pretty hampering.

Or did you mean bump Dex to 20 eventually to have studded leather at 17(12+5) AC and only bump Wis to 18?

Thanks again for the advice. Definitely learned a lot from reading through this thread. Though, admittedly, I only read through like the first 12 pages before posting.

[Yorrin]

I'm slightly confused because before donning shield and casting shield of faith, studded leather with bumping Dex to 18 would be AC 16 (12+4), while half plate with med armor master would be 18 (15+3). Or am I missing something? Do you think that +1 to sword dmg, Dex saves, and initiative is a better upgrade than an additional 2 AC? Honestly asking since I've only experienced the low level game. Right now it seems like the consensus is that +1 dmg and initiative isn't really that big of a deal, so I guess what I'm asking is that is +1 to Dex saves in the mid-high level game overall better than a +2 to AC? I guess I could bump the Dex and grab half plate anyway for a 17 AC, but then I'd still have to deal with the stealth disadvantage, which seems to be pretty hampering.

Or did you mean bump Dex to 20 eventually to have studded leather at 17(12+5) AC and only bump Wis to 18?

Thanks again for the advice. Definitely learned a lot from reading through this thread. Though, admittedly, I only read through like the first 12 pages before posting.

I'm out of town and afb so I thought half plate was one less, so one point of ac vs dex/initiative/damage seemed like a decent trade. That being said something like sheild master might still be a better option. A lot of high level creatures impose some massive damage on dex saves.