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2015-10-15, 01:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2014
Re: The Devout and the Dead: a guide to Clerics
This is pure speculation on my part, but I've long thought a Cleric 1/Death Favored Soul X could make a really interesting necromancer. With the distant metamagic you wind up with a character who can use both Inflict Wounds and Vampiric touch at 30' ranges. It's also pretty much the only way to get animate dead on a sorcerer without a lot of hideously unfavorable multiclassing.
No idea if it'd be at all effective, but it struck me as an interesting interaction.
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2015-10-15, 01:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
Re: The Devout and the Dead: a guide to Clerics
An interesting proposition! I don't use UA material at my table or in my guide, so I haven't considered the implications of multiclassing with Favored Soul. I can see some uses, certainly. I'd think Oathbreaker/Favored Soul might be better for the undead army because of Cha synergy, but the ranged Inflict Wounds and Vampiric Touch certainly have their uses.
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2015-10-24, 10:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2015
Re: The Devout and the Dead: a guide to Clerics
Dual Wielder: It's a trap! If you're dual-wielding chances are you're already at least using shortswords. This lets you use rapiers instead, which is not worth the feat.
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2015-10-24, 10:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2014
Re: The Devout and the Dead: a guide to Clerics
Will your DM let you "retrain"? As you've probably realized, you have an excellent Wisdom-based bonus action attack on your spell list: spiritual weapon. It requires no concentration and lasts up to 10 rounds per casting. At 5th level, you're going to get spirit guardians, which slows and deals 3d8 radiant damage (scaling up with spell slot) to each and every enemy that begins its turn or comes within 15 feet of you for up to 100 rounds with concentration. Having played a tempest cleric to Tier 3, I can say that as far as DPR is concerned, spirit guardians is the whole ballgame. You want to be able to keep it up (so to speak) in important battles. My tempest cleric had Resilient (Con 16) and I still wanted Warcaster by the time I hit Tier 3. The spell is just that "godly," and concentration is more important than maxing your Wisdom -- monsters in general have bad Wisdom saves, at least at the low to mid levels. And even when they save, they're still taking half damage... It's all about making those concentration checks.
In a longer battle, you can have spiritual weapon and spirit guardians up at the same time while still taking a normal action every round after the first. At 8th level, you'll get Divine Strike, which will add 1d8 damage to your weapon attack. If you have a low melee stat, you can always use sacred flame. I'd generally choose based on the opponent: cantrip vs. heavily armored foes (and therefore usually low Dex saves), melee attack vs. lightly armored foes (and therefore usually higher Dex saves). Really, though, that's just a little gravy on top of your spirit guardians meat and potatoes.
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2015-10-24, 10:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
Re: The Devout and the Dead: a guide to Clerics
Well, the good news is that all is not lost. You've already hit on one good option. If you've already spent the feat on it via Variant Human you might try to beg and plead with your DM to let you switch it out when you next level up. The other option is to fully embrace the Dual Wielding schtick and multiclass Fighter, though I don't necessarily recommend that option. And honestly, some rounds it might be your best option just to swing that second blade. Think of it as a weak bonus action cantrip. But yeah, I'd go for a shield in your case.
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2015-10-24, 11:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2011
Re: The Devout and the Dead: a guide to Clerics
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2015-10-24, 01:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
Re: The Devout and the Dead: a guide to Clerics
Guide update: SCAG races/domain have now been added. Ghostwise Halflings have the distinction of being a top tier pick for Dex builds, and the new Arcana Domain kicks some serious tail.
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The Devout and the Dead: a guide to 5e Clerics
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2015-10-24, 06:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2015
Re: The Devout and the Dead: a guide to Clerics
Thanks to Finieous, Yorrin, and NNescio for the great advice!
Last edited by bujano; 2015-10-24 at 06:23 PM.
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2015-10-25, 11:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2011
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2015-10-26, 06:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
Re: The Devout and the Dead: a guide to Clerics
Last edited by Yorrin; 2015-10-26 at 06:58 AM.
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2015-10-29, 10:01 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2015
Re: The Devout and the Dead: a guide to Clerics
I thought I would ask here rather than create a separate thread so that the info is available for other people:
From the info that I have read the Arcana Cleric looks really interesting. Does anyone have a decent caster and/or melee hybrid 27-point build for it, or a link to a guide?
My first impression is that the default Pure Wisdom build mentioned(Wis 15, Con 14, Dex 13, Str 10, Cha 10, Int 10) would be the best choice, although personally I think that (Wis 15+1, Con 14+2, Dex 14, Str 10, Cha 10, Int 8) for Hill Dwarf or (Wis 15+1, Con 15+1, Dex 14, Str 10, Cha 8, Int 8) for Variant Human are better starting stats. Resilient CON seems a very useful feat (letting me drop a point from CON in initial allocation), and better than Warcaster. Also Ritual Caster (Wizard) seems nice to increase the spells you have access too.
Any comments?
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2015-11-02, 01:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
Re: The Devout and the Dead: a guide to Clerics
Yeah, I'd go pure Wis for sure. As you've astutely pointed out my example stat-builds are supposed to be adjusted for race. Both of the stat spreads you've proposed are solid.
As a pure caster you're pretty much a Cleric with better attack cantrips and a solid domain spell list, right up until you hit 17. At that point you're probably want to pick up some good crowd control options (Mass Suggestion, Forcecage, Mind Blank, Time Stop/Wish).
If you're going melee take Booming Blade and/or Greenflame blade with your free Wizard cantrips and pick up Shillelagh via feat for a very potent beat-stick. With a 20Wis you're looking at 4d8+10 for both primary and secondary damage (and Wis to-hit).
Warcaster and Resilient(Con) should probably both be in your build eventually, but both are strong starting options. Ritual Caster seems like a waste to me.Avatar by the lovely and talented Ceika
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2015-11-03, 07:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2015
Re: The Devout and the Dead: a guide to Clerics
Hello,
and thank you for this very excellent guide :)
Since another member already asked about the arcana domain, I'm following his lead:
I want to play an Arcana domain cleric, focused on melee combat with Greenflame Blade. 27 point buy. At the moment we are level 3 in our group.
Since the style of my character is as important to me as the optimization, this gets a little bit tricky.
Despite being the most convenient way to build a melee focused cleric I do not like the Shillelagh-Option.
Heavy armor would be ok if it fits the overall concept.
For Races: I really like gnomes, but a halfling is also nice. Humans are ok as would dwarfes, but wouldn't be my first pick. At the end i will play my character a little bit confused.
The main problem is that you do not get martial weapons. So there are many possibilities, one of it is to start with 1 level fighter.
I'm also undecided if Dex or Str Build is the better option.
So maybe you can help me? I would really appreciate some new ideas for my character :) If you need more information I will be happy to provide them.
Thank you very much!
best regards
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2015-11-03, 08:17 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
Re: The Devout and the Dead: a guide to Clerics
You're welcome!
Gnomes make for sub-par Clerics, unfortunately. Their bonus to mental saves is nice, but the rest of the race offers almost nothing. It sounds like you're not really sold on Humans or Dwarves from a flavor standpoint, so that leaves you with Halflings. The good news is that Stout Halflings are pretty good. The great news is that the new Ghostwise Halflings from SCAG get a Wis bonus, and thus are even better.
Conclusion: go with a Halfling! If you don't like Ghostwise for some reason, make it a Stout.
If you're going Halfling, as I advised, then Dex makes more sense. You're correct in noting that lack of martial weapon proficiency limits that pretty hard. Starting as a Fighter is a strong option for you, giving you that rapier proficiency you crave, as well as a fighting style (Defense and Dueling come to mind). Other strong multiclassing options for you include Ranger, Rogue, and maybe Monk.
If you don't feel like multiclassing things get a bit harder. You could always blow a feat on weapon proficiencies, but that largely feel like a waste to me. Or you could switch races to Wood Elf and get shortsword proficiency, though that apparently doesn't fit your concept as well (which I totally understand. As mechanically superior as elves are in 5e, I hate playing elves.)
Keep in mind also as a Dex user that you'll want to carry the biggest crossbow you're proficient in as well, at least until Cleric 8.
Hope that helps!Last edited by Yorrin; 2015-11-03 at 08:22 AM.
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2015-11-03, 11:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2015
Re: The Devout and the Dead: a guide to Clerics
Yeah! It helps very much.
I will then make an Halfling Arcana Cleric with 1 Level Fighter.
So, my initial stat array (including the halfling bonuses) would be
Str 8, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 10 (ghostwise) or
Str 8, Dex 17, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 15, Cha 10 (stout)
How should I apply further ability score improvements? Or should I pick up any feats?
Maybe I decrease Wis by one point and increase Int to 12 (which would fit my concept of the arcana priest). Starting as a fighter then would give me Str and Con saves. With an odd value in Wis the Resilient (Wisdom) feat could be a good pick.
Alternatively I could just increase my Dex 16 to 18 with the first ability score improvement.
Or should I increase Wis?
My last question is: Starting in Fighter or Cleric? As my character will wear light armor, it does not really matter, except for the Saving Throws.
Thank you again!
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2015-11-03, 11:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
Re: The Devout and the Dead: a guide to Clerics
Both of those arrays look fine. With the Stout array you could drop the odd Dex point if you want to up Int. From the way you're talking about playing the character it sounds like Dex will be more beneficial to raise early, and Wis will be more relevant later in the build. I'm thinking Fighter first for both Con save and a few more hitpoints. In terms of feats Warcaster will be pretty useful. Resilient (Wis) isn't terrible, but I'd personally rather have the stat bump.
Last edited by Yorrin; 2015-11-03 at 11:47 AM.
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The Devout and the Dead: a guide to 5e Clerics
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2015-11-03, 07:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2014
Re: The Devout and the Dead: a guide to Clerics
Is it me or does the cleric spell list seem bizarrely limited at very high levels? Like, why on earth do Clerics not get Power Word: Heal or Power Word: Stun? Earthquake, but not Tsunami? Wish has been replaced with the Divine Intervention class feature, but some of the selections just seem sort of odd.
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2015-11-03, 09:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
Re: The Devout and the Dead: a guide to Clerics
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2015-11-04, 04:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2014
Re: The Devout and the Dead: a guide to Clerics
Part of what confuses me is the way the feel of cleric shifts around 12th level. It gets bizarrely generic. You're no longer getting your domain spells, your domain class features have tapered off, and there's nothing to do but sit around watching your destroy undead and divine intervention features incrementally improve until 17th level. It reads like someone lost the design notes with SPECIALIST CASTER written across them about halfway through the process.
It's the 8th level spells are a good example of what confuses me. Which of the four options is a spell any cleric is going to cast on a regular basis? Holy Aura is sort of nice if you want to shell out the 1000 gp for the focus, but it's not all that impressive compared to Mind Blank or Animal Shapes (and neither of those has a gp cost); Earthquake is a spell for knocking down buildings which, again, is situationally handy but not something you need to do most days; Control Weather is in much the same boat as Earthquake; and Antimagic Field's range of self makes it actively counterproductive more often than not. There's just no degree of flexibility in those very high level slots and not much in the way of specialist domain features to take the class the other way.Last edited by Flashy; 2015-11-04 at 04:05 AM.
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2015-11-04, 10:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2014
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Re: The Devout and the Dead: a guide to Clerics
I have a LOT of Homebrew!
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2015-11-04, 12:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
Re: The Devout and the Dead: a guide to Clerics
Well, your homebrew Domain is.... interesting. And slightly overpowered. Clearly you're going for a Str build, but the whole "changing your casting stat to Str" thing changes quite a bit. You're probably best off with a Half Orc.
At low levels you'd pick Bless as your concentration spell and Guiding Bolt for spell damage. You've got tons of options for healing, and a handful of utility choices as well. As you hit mid levels, especially as a melee-focused Cleric, you're going to want to have Spirit Guardians as your concentration spell. Your bonus action damage boost is strictly better than Spiritual Weapon, so you don't really need to worry about that.Avatar by the lovely and talented Ceika
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2015-11-04, 12:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Devout and the Dead: a guide to Clerics
The bonus action is also a Channel Divinity option, so it's pretty limited in use.
I have a LOT of Homebrew!
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2015-11-25, 04:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2015
Re: The Devout and the Dead: a guide to Clerics
Hey there! So I'm rolling my second ever 5E character, (my first was a ranger, and only got to be in one session. So I'm very new to the edition) and have put together what I think is a pretty solid hill dwarf str/wis life domain cleric, who should do a great job of standing shoulder to shoulder with our front line guy while keeping him on his feet. Largely thanks to this wonderful guide!
Maybe it comes from years of playing rogues and bards, but I come to have a question about shields. I'm in heavy armor, and I like the image of my guy going into the fray with a spear, so is there any reason for me to have a shield? Certainly a higher AC is nice, but am I better off using the spear two-handed for that extra damage, or using it one-handed and keeping a shield? We'really starting a few levels up, incidentally, and I'm planning to take War Casting.
Any advice would be much appreciated, thank you for this great guide and intelligent discussion!
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2015-11-25, 06:05 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2015
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Re: The Devout and the Dead: a guide to Clerics
Using the versatile property is only really worthwhile if you add great weapon fighting to it. Otherwise you are looking at +1 damage per round on average. Not worth it in my opinion (especially as you can but your casting focus on the shield).
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2015-11-25, 08:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
Re: The Devout and the Dead: a guide to Clerics
Thanks!
Shield is straight up more optimal. That being said, you're not going to be totally gimped by using a two handed spear. Here's my advise: try out the two handed spear for a while, but keep a shield in your pack just in case you're really feeling the lack of AC.
Also note your Dwarven weapon proficiencies (warhammer, battleaxe), which are strictly better than a spear in terms of damage. Once again better with a shield as well, but can be used versatile if you want.Last edited by Yorrin; 2015-11-25 at 08:19 AM.
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2015-11-25, 02:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2015
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2015-11-25, 02:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2015
Re: The Devout and the Dead: a guide to Clerics
All makes sense, thanks! I feel like I've played with a lot of DMs who like trying to disarm their players over the years, so my initial instinct is usually to consider a back up weapon of some kind. Both a spear and a warhammer can be grabbed just with a cleric's starting equipment, even, and the spear as a back up is kind of neat, what with being throwable as well; does anyone else always go for some kind of back up strapped tothem, or am I just paranoid?
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2015-11-25, 10:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
Re: The Devout and the Dead: a guide to Clerics
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2015-12-05, 01:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2015
Re: The Devout and the Dead: a guide to Clerics
Hey there! First post on the forum.
I just had a question regarding the example builds.
Elemental Adept doesn't list Radiant as one of the types you can choose in the book I have. Is that something that was changed later, or is that one of those things that DMs just kind of let happen?
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2015-12-05, 12:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
Re: The Devout and the Dead: a guide to Clerics
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The Devout and the Dead: a guide to 5e Clerics
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