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  1. - Top - End - #1
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    Default EMPIRE! CWBG IX: We Keep Score With Bragging Rights! Many Prowess, Such Revolution

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    EMPIRE!
    Gods, Kings & Adventurers
    A Community World=Building Game by Morph Bark

    Current Year: 440-445
    IC thread: click!
    Dice-Rolling thread: click!


    NOTE:
    Currently the rules are going a small update to fill in holes in the rules that have been recently exposed. If you discover a hole in the rules, please report it so it can be looked into and taken care of. I try to make the rules as clear, solid and usable as they can be, so they don't need a GM to make rulings too often.



    Welcome to EMPIRE! A game of gods, kings and adventurers. In this game, you will play a character, a ruler of a region. And once s/he dies, you will play their heir and so on, continuing on the family legacy. You scheme, discover and conquer your way towards becoming the most-remembered person in history. Respected, loved, feared.

    This world will start as a simple one similar to the early Middle Ages, but through the actions of players and random events the scope of the world will expand, science marches on and magic may even be introduced to some lucky ones. For now, magic is nowhere to be found, though monsters may exist in players’ regions or beyond their borders and supernatural phenomena can take place.

    Best beware if you want to ensure your legacy.


    If you want to become a player and all regions are currently taken, don't worry. New regions can always be added in during play, and we can put you on the waiting list in the meantime should no regions be available at this time. If Empire interests you, but you don't want to play the game, you can always partake in the Freeform RP threads that are open to everyone, or even in its World-Building threads. See the list at the end of this post.


    Be warned! This is primarily a game of world-building, but contains some strategic elements, secretive scheming, and both cooperation and vehement competition between players at times. It's all easy enough to understand once you've read through the rules of this post, and GREAT fun to play in and talk with all your co-world-builders in this thread, but keep in mind that in the game itself, IC, it can be a very bumpy ride. Let us ask questions, help each other, communicate, cooperate, build and have fun OOC, even as we bash each other's brains in IC.

    Also, if you have a question, and you can ask a player (about their region or people, for instance), ask them instead of the GM. If you can ask it in the thread, do that instead of via PM. The GM's PM inbox is regularly cleared and thus things can easily get lost, so try keep it to secret stuff and (IC) reactions to stuff you get in your own inbox.


    Atlas
    Spoiler
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    Below is the most current map of the known world. Here is a list of regions that has been claimed and by whom. It is slightly outdated, so if you aim to take over a certain region, it is always good to double-check in the main thread (this one) whether it is taken or not. It might even currently be in the process of being taken over by someone else. This is especially good advice to new players, because then you're more aware of the general situation of the area you'll be dropping into.



    The Rules of the Game
    See this thread.


    Game Masters
    Head GM: Morph Bark

    Assistant GMs: QuintonBeck, TheWombatOfDoom, Waylander


    ~ ~ GM Data Collection ~ ~
    All the information on rulers & regions

    See this thread for all records of rulers, population, military, agents, technologies, etc.

    See this thread for all records on resources and trade.

    New Player Tips and Advice (Morph)

    FAQ - Frequently Asked Questions (Wombat)



    Extra Player Resources (For the Players, By the Players)
    Heraldry Generator (thanks, Logic!)
    Family Banner Generator
    Flag Generator (thanks, Logic!)
    Family Tree Builder (thanks, zabbarot!)

    Should there be anything incorrect or not updated yet about any of the above tables it’s always possible that the GM or co-GM in charge of that has missed it. If so, please feel free to inform us with the proper, most updated information.



    Additional Role-Play Threads
    The following is a list of role-play threads related to the game of EMPIRE! Some are to work out in-game actions, others are fluff first and foremost.
    Grand Ball (Year 336)
    1st Raaneki Games (Year 347)
    Central Sea Conference (Year 353)
    First World's Fair (Year 358)
    2nd Raaneki Games (Year 362)
    Zwergkampf (Year 373)
    People Against Invasion North (Year 371-375)
    3rd Raaneki Games (Year 377)
    2nd Grand Ball of Telluris (Year 381, various threads inside)
    Expedition to UnderSulvan (Year 385)
    Jeweled Cities' 50th Anniversary (Year 387)
    4th Raaneki Games (Year 392)
    Fires in the West: THE BALEFROG RISES (Year 399)
    Fires in the South: MARCH OF THE DEAD (Year 399)
    Celebration of the New Century (Year 401)
    5th Raaneki Games (Year 407)
    Second World's Fair (Year 408)
    Voskhozhdeniye Dance (Year 412)
    Jarrow Weddings (Year 415)
    Unification Feast (Year 416)
    Frost Moon Festival (Year 417)
    Sakaru Mitsura (Year 418)
    6th Raaneki Games (Year 422)
    International Council Summit (Year 425)
    Wayve's Coronation (Year 429)
    3rd Grand Ball (Year 431)
    Moonshroud Festival of 434 (Year 434)
    2nd International Council Summit (Year 436)
    1st Tellurian Games (Year 437)
    Grand Prince Montoyon Gebui's Most Fabulous Arrival (Year 441)
    Rise of the Silver Wyrm - The Coronation and Nameday of Li Tianshi (Year 442)
    Pink Tide Festival (Year 446)
    Inaugural Grand Cree Providence Day Ball (Year 453)

    Spoiler: Private threads
    Show
    The threads in this spoiler are all private threads, meant to only be read by those who were invited to take part in them. If MORE than 25 years (5 rounds) have passed, you are free to read them. Threads with permission granted by the main participants are also fair game. For that reason, I have further highlighted which threads are found generally okay to read by marking their tag in green and the ones you'd better steer clear of for the next few rounds being marked in red.

    [Round 2, Year 336] Grand Conference
    [Round 6, Year 356] A Clash of Nations
    [Round 9, Year 375] Interrogation of Qzare Xiu Wandao
    [Round 10, Year 376] Heartwaste Conference
    [Round 10, Year 377] Visit to the Heartwaste
    [Round 10, Year 380] Comitatus Judex Primus
    [Round 10, Year 380] Jostling the Hive
    [Round 11, Year 381] Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to the Qzare
    [Round 11, Year 381] Paco and Fabula
    [Round 13, Year 392] Moonshroud Festival
    [Round 14, Year 399] Warrior Queen, Blazing Avatar
    [Round 14, Year 399] Bring Me the Head of Tupelo Cornus
    [Round 14, Year 400] Fires in the North: LORD, BURN ALL THE WORLD
    [Round 18, Year 416] Princely Road Trip
    [Round 18, Year 416] Silver Summit
    [Round 18, Year 420] Dragons in the Capital
    [Round 23, Year 442] Prince Buttercup's Plot


    Freeform Role-Play Threads
    The following threads are in the Freeform Role-Play forum and can thus be entered by anyone, including people who do not play the game part of EMPIRE!
    Blazing Temple (Any Year, ongoing (by invite))
    Cantus Sai (Year 366)
    Last Visitation (Year 369)
    Summit on the Summit (Year 372)
    Technical Institute for Brilliant Minds (Year 375, ongoing)
    Academy of Culture and Prowess (Year 386, ongoing)
    Northbound: The Polar Expedition (Year 388)


    Fluff-Building Threads
    The following threads are purely for expanding on existing fluff or theorizing about the history or make-up of the world. Some of them are in-character role-play bits, some are projects for creating maps, others are quotes or excerpts from books.
    Pre-History (World-Building, pre-Year 1, pre-Year 330, ongoing)
    Rajurdic Codex (Year 338+, ongoing)
    Scrolls of Prowess (Year 349+, ongoing)
    Bestiary of Telluris (Year 354+, ongoing)
    Regional Maps (World-Building, ongoing)
    Northern Hemisphere Star Map (World-Building, ongoing)


    Previous Main Thread Incarnations
    Last edited by Morph Bark; 2015-04-03 at 02:54 PM.
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  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: EMPIRE! CWBG IX: We Keep Score With Bragging Rights! Many Prowess, Such Revolutio

    Quote Originally Posted by BladeofObliviom View Post
    She overthrew the government? I thought she legally obtained the Dogeship via questionably-acquired wealth and leveraging the fact that somebody needed to be in charge while the boys were out being imprisoned?

    The latter one is awesome (I still can't look at that picture without chuckling), but I'll also go with the first one for the reason Sam brought up.
    VERY questionably acquired. And also she "might" have had dealings with the Zuigos to get rid of the old Doges.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark View Post
    Right on time, new thread!
    Awesome! New thread smell is amazing.
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    Default Re: EMPIRE! CWBG IX: We Keep Score With Bragging Rights! Many Prowess, Such Revolutio

    Quote Originally Posted by SamBurke View Post
    VERY questionably acquired. And also she "might" have had dealings with the Zuigos to get rid of the old Doges.
    And that's why she's going to "die in childbirth".

    I was old when the pharaohs first mounted
    The jewel-decked throne by the Nile;
    I was old in those epochs uncounted
    When I, and I only, was vile;

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    Quote Originally Posted by apocalypsePast2 View Post
    ...one could possibly refer to you guys' elaborate dance of allies-to-enemies-to-suicide-of-the-universe as some sort of weird art form.

    If one were on drugs.
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    Default Re: EMPIRE! CWBG IX: We Keep Score With Bragging Rights! Many Prowess, Such Revolutio

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDarkDM View Post
    And that's why she's going to "die in childbirth".
    It's rather unlikely that Inigo would be so patient as to use a stratagem like that, but everyone can change.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TravelLog View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SamBurke View Post
    *snip* ...Hands down the funniest class critique ever... *snip*
    I cannot tell you the number of times I laughed while reading this.

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    Default Re: EMPIRE! CWBG IX: We Keep Score With Bragging Rights! Many Prowess, Such Revolutio

    Especially with...


    I was old when the pharaohs first mounted
    The jewel-decked throne by the Nile;
    I was old in those epochs uncounted
    When I, and I only, was vile;

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    Quote Originally Posted by apocalypsePast2 View Post
    ...one could possibly refer to you guys' elaborate dance of allies-to-enemies-to-suicide-of-the-universe as some sort of weird art form.

    If one were on drugs.
    Quote Originally Posted by VonDoom View Post
    Behold, the mighty slayer of strangely coloured mutant equines! The thwarter of forum woes! The! Dark! DM!

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    Default Re: EMPIRE! CWBG IX: We Keep Score With Bragging Rights! Many Prowess, Such Revolutio

    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark View Post
    I haven't changed the region cap and if I had I would've stated it clearly in this thread or given another GM the go ahead to do so. The region cap of 7 is still in place. As of the present, there are no plans to increase the cap (and in fact NPC vassals will receive a lower region cap [4] along with a limitation on amount of NPC vassals [2], else it'd be way too easy for Empires to become incredibly dominant forces).
    Very well then. I shall instead establish Sulvan's Fury as a region of the Kingdom of Ashenia that is internally self-governed, exempt from certain taxes and allowed greater international representation for not so obscure culturalhistorical reasons.
    Mechanically though, it'd be a vassal.
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    Default Re: EMPIRE! CWBG IX: We Keep Score With Bragging Rights! Many Prowess, Such Revolutio

    Quote Originally Posted by SamBurke View Post
    It's rather unlikely that Inigo would be so patient as to use a stratagem like that, but everyone can change.
    He can't afford to be too patient; he's got to be like 90 at this point.
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    Default Re: EMPIRE! CWBG IX: We Keep Score With Bragging Rights! Many Prowess, Such Revolutio

    Quote Originally Posted by Aedilred View Post
    He can't afford to be too patient; he's got to be like 90 at this point.
    Just like Walder Frey.

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    Default Re: EMPIRE! CWBG IX: We Keep Score With Bragging Rights! Many Prowess, Such Revolutio

    Quote Originally Posted by MintyNinja View Post
    Just like Walder Frey.
    I'm curious as to who actually read or is reading the books instead of watching the show.

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    Default Re: EMPIRE! CWBG IX: We Keep Score With Bragging Rights! Many Prowess, Such Revolutio

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDarkDM View Post
    Blade, that sort of reminds me of Billy.
    Ooh, the Terrible Secret of Animal Crossing! I remember that!

    Nah, the picture I posted was in reference to one of the cheat units from Age of Mythology: A nigh-immortal Bear with Laser Eyes, a Canadian Flag as a cape, and two monkey servants.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDarkDM View Post
    And that's why she's going to "die in childbirth".
    Oh, you.

    Quote Originally Posted by moossabi View Post
    I'm curious as to who actually read or is reading the books instead of watching the show.
    I tried, I really tried, but I just couldn't get into it. This goes for the show too. Luckily, everybody on the internet and in my household have spoiled both to the point where I no longer need to care.

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    Default Re: EMPIRE! CWBG IX: We Keep Score With Bragging Rights! Many Prowess, Such Revolutio

    Quote Originally Posted by moossabi View Post
    I'm curious as to who actually read or is reading the books instead of watching the show.
    I read all the books first (with the exception of the Dunk & Egg novellae and The Princess and the Queen, the latter of which wasn't published when the show was released, and none of which is covered by show material anyway). I subsequently watched the show, although am not planning to continue watching since it is difficult to see how at least two of the characters' story arcs can make any real progress next season without advancing into unwritten territory.

    (Of course, they might just choose not to advance those, or introduce their own "show subplots" to pad things out as they have in the past. Obviously the books are a bit thin and need quite a bit of padding...)

    I hold out no hope however that show-watchers will refrain from posting potential book spoilers all over the place if the show overtakes the books, as seems inevitable. I might just have to exile myself from society for a few years.
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    Default Re: EMPIRE! CWBG IX: We Keep Score With Bragging Rights! Many Prowess, Such Revolutio

    Quote Originally Posted by moossabi View Post
    I'm curious as to who actually read or is reading the books instead of watching the show.
    I watched the first season, read all the books, then continued watching the show. I'm still just blown away at how closely they are able adapt the source material. Also, there might be part of me that identifies the written characters by the actors that play them in the show.

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    Default Re: EMPIRE! CWBG IX: We Keep Score With Bragging Rights! Many Prowess, Such Revolutio

    Quote Originally Posted by moossabi View Post
    I'm curious as to who actually read or is reading the books instead of watching the show.
    Only ever read the books. Of course, I first heard about the series at a creative writing workshop, which may have had something to do with it.

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    Default Re: EMPIRE! CWBG IX: We Keep Score With Bragging Rights! Many Prowess, Such Revolutio

    Quote Originally Posted by moossabi View Post
    I'm curious as to who actually read or is reading the books instead of watching the show.
    Started reading the series almost a decade ago, and endured the long drought between Feast and Dance. I don't watch the show, but I keep up with it because of the delicious schadenfreude. I'm also intrigued as to where they're taking the show, considering the number of characters, character motivations, and events that they've decided to cut.

    And Aedilred, I'm not sure we should complain about the show getting to beta test some stuff for Martin.

    I was old when the pharaohs first mounted
    The jewel-decked throne by the Nile;
    I was old in those epochs uncounted
    When I, and I only, was vile;

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    Quote Originally Posted by apocalypsePast2 View Post
    ...one could possibly refer to you guys' elaborate dance of allies-to-enemies-to-suicide-of-the-universe as some sort of weird art form.

    If one were on drugs.
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    Default Re: EMPIRE! CWBG IX: We Keep Score With Bragging Rights! Many Prowess, Such Revolutio

    Quote Originally Posted by moossabi View Post
    I'm curious as to who actually read or is reading the books instead of watching the show.
    Add me to the list of book readers (Though, to be fair, I watched the first season before starting on the books, and finished Dance with Dragons just before the airing of the penultimate episode of Season 2 (The Battle of Blackwater.)
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    Default Re: EMPIRE! CWBG IX: We Keep Score With Bragging Rights! Many Prowess, Such Revolutio

    Tried reading, but a friend of mine was so flagrant in spoilers that it turned me off. I eventually came back for the tv show and have been enjoying it since.
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    Default Re: EMPIRE! CWBG IX: We Keep Score With Bragging Rights! Many Prowess, Such Revolutio

    So, uh, I actually have some ideas for the Nomad rules, whenever we get around to implementing those. It's a bit of a tricky concept, since the idea of a Nomadic civilization is basically completely divorcing itself from the current regional power structure. Since resources, military capacity, and population are all currently attached to regions, this means that without some unique/altered rules, a nomadic culture would be unable to fight, trade, or exist.

    I have some ideas to approach these problems, though they're likely to need rebalancing/alterations. Feel free to criticize/revise/adapt/praise them.

    Spoiler: Ideas
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    General

    Nomadic Cultures should be defined at least in part by their population rather than their regions. They should have a single population value representing their entire cultural makeup rather than separate regional populations.

    Nomads should be able to relocate to a new "capital region" between rounds, if they wish. They shouldn't be able to move through regions unwilling to allow them through without a fight, just like armies. Winning a battle should just allow them to move through, though. Nomads with Ocean-faring Ships tech and the appropriate resources or flight tech and appropriate resources should be able to sail or fly, allowing alternate travel methods. Basically, moving around should be treated like moving troops except without the necessity of violence.

    If the settled owner of their new "capital" objects to the presence of nomads, they should be able to try to force their way in for a round militarily if necessary. And if their new "capital" is uncolonized land, it should be fairly safe. Maybe they can even subsume some of its population with a roll.

    It should be possible for a Rebel Leader to become nomadic, perhaps completing a project to abandon their capital entirely and taking some of its population with them.

    Obviously, if a nomad group takes control of a region via conquest or colonization or claim, they should stop being nomads. Their population and technologies should be added to the region's population and technologies, and they become a normal settled culture with that region's resources and import requirement. Similarly, a Nomad culture should not be able to become a vassal unless it is granted a region as part of the vassalization action.


    Diplomacy

    Nothing particularly special here. One thing to consider would be what happens if somebody manages to push a claim on a nomad culture, but I don't have an answer to that.


    Military

    Since they do not have regions and cannot really maintain a standing army, the militia is likely to be doing most of the heavy lifting here. Given that a high population is advantageous to nomads in general, this is convenient. There should probably be some speed advantage to the Nomad militia, allowing them to be used like a normal standing army.

    Since nomads can't really be conquered, a military defeat should scatter them for a round, not preventing them from taking actions entirely but taking a chunk out of their population and depriving them of their "capital" for that round, which restricts their ability to do certain things. It should also probably render them militarily incapable during that time, though it might also protect them from further direct attack.

    Removing a hostile nomadic culture as a threat pretty much requires outright genocide or merely enough damage that the leader decides to stay away.

    (This whole section probably needs to have its numbers looked at very closely.)


    Curiosity

    Nomads should have their own resource mechanic. My current idea is that they should start with the normal number of resources, but attached to their communal storage rather than to a region. Nomads are frugal and able to live off the land well enough that they don't have a resource requirement by default. (Not sure about that last bit. Is that unbalanced?)

    C5 actions can be used to increase the size of the communal storage, allowing more resources or turning one into a Great Resource as usual. Unlike a region, the cap on max resources should be higher, maybe based on population (and probably with an upper limit to keep things from getting ridiculous).

    As a tradeoff for this increased capacity without need to conquer or expand, and because they do not have constant new sources of the same goods, however, these communal resources should be limited for trade: Perhaps only a single stack to spare for others instead of three. This leaves them with some limited ability to trade for a wide variety of resources but prevents them from beating a merchant empire at their own game.

    However, to allow some level of flexibility, they should be able to use an action replace one of their current resources with one native to their current "capital region", sort of like a trading post but with a different trade-off. Obviously, this would be a hostile act if the region's actual owner objects (likely for much the same reasons as one would object to an unsanctioned trading post). Naturally, any trade routes they maintain using a given resource break if they lose access to that resource. This does, however, give nomads an incentive to travel around often and try to replace stuff that is no longer useful to them for whatever reason.


    Faith

    Actually, I don't think there need to be any special rules here. Perhaps nomads are unusually vulnerable to conversion due to their lack of multiple regions to convert, but that's actually a fairly reasonable drawback. And as usual, Holy Orders and Faith Score can help defend against this.

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    Default Re: EMPIRE! CWBG IX: We Keep Score With Bragging Rights! Many Prowess, Such Revolutio

    Hey! Minty, Dark, everyone else hosting a thing! Could you please link the Event Thread under the Action that created it for easy of access?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BladeofObliviom View Post

    Nothing particularly special here. One thing to consider would be what happens if somebody manages to push a claim on a nomad culture, but I don't have an answer to that.
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    Uuuuh, hm. I mean, what post boarders cultures are there to look at? Jews and Romani? Not... not really cohesive nations those. More regions/ethnicities.
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    Default Re: EMPIRE! CWBG IX: We Keep Score With Bragging Rights! Many Prowess, Such Revolutio

    Quote Originally Posted by DoomHat View Post
    Hey! Minty, Dark, everyone else hosting a thing! Could you please link the Event Thread under the Action that created it for easy of access?




    Uuuuh, hm. I mean, what post boarders cultures are there to look at? Jews and Romani? Not... not really cohesive nations those. More regions/ethnicities.
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    Well, there are a few major nomadic groups that had hereditary leadership, though most of them were territorial in some way or another. The pre-Ottoman Bedouin, for example. Among Paripatetic nomads, which by definition don't really have territory and live among other civilizations, there are dozens of groups in Asia Minor and India.

    However, trying to boil real, highly variable people down to a single set of rules is both an exercise in frustration and may end up being problematic if handled poorly. We're probably better off looking for fictional models.
    Last edited by BladeofObliviom; 2014-10-10 at 09:05 PM.

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    Default Re: EMPIRE! CWBG IX: We Keep Score With Bragging Rights! Many Prowess, Such Revolutio

    Quote Originally Posted by BladeofObliviom View Post
    Well, there are a few major nomadic groups that had hereditary leadership, though most of them were territorial in some way or another. The pre-Ottoman Bedouin, for example. Among Paripatetic nomads, which by definition don't really have territory and live among other civilizations, there are dozens of groups in Asia Minor and India.

    However, trying to boil real, highly variable people down to a single set of rules is both an exercise in frustration and may end up being problematic if handled poorly. We're probably better off looking for fictional models.
    Did someone forget...the Mongols!?

    I think we really need to establish what is meant in the game by a nomad society. Historical nomad societies still had a vague territory that defined their ranging ground - that fits broadly with the core rules of the game. However, if Tychris' intent is a globe trotting society of hyper-unified Roma, then I think Blade's rules are a good place to start.

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    Default Re: EMPIRE! CWBG IX: We Keep Score With Bragging Rights! Many Prowess, Such Revolutio

    On the note of nomadic cultures, I like a lot of what you've cooked up Blade but the one thing that bugs me is resources. Adding in an additional qualifier to the [Good] [Great] dichotomy as having single trade items would isn't necessarily something I can get behind just because it alters a rather core concept for the sake of an add on element. What I might suggest instead is that a nomadic people gain access to any Great Resources in a region as a Good Resource for themselves, capable of establishing it as such either through an action or through staying in the region possessing the Great Resource for one or more turns, with the ability to acquire up to three resources this way. The logistical issue of how they maintain a supply of something such as Shintouite or some other localized resource that isn't something that can be planted is an issue but the same issue is present in the other proposal as well.

    Thus, a nomad group has to travel to Great Resource possessing nations prompting a greater roaming encouragement without introducing a third Resource amount type.

    Something else to consider is the possibility of people joining the nomads or nomads joining the people of a region they're staying in. It might overcomplicate the game, but it might be interesting to have a Diplomacy roll off between host and nomads when the nomads depart to see if any of the nomads decide to settle or any of the civilized folk decide to join the nomad culture as they ramble on.

    On the note of military and militas, perhaps nomads are able to keep militas raised longer without spending an additional action allowing them to meet prolonged engagement where necessary.

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    Default Re: EMPIRE! CWBG IX: We Keep Score With Bragging Rights! Many Prowess, Such Revolutio

    I've discussed some of the nomad rules ideas I had with Tychris via PM (sorry it's taking so long, man).

    Basically, I figure nomads might have a cap on population, but a higher percentage of them can be in the army and they would have a unique mechanic that would allow them to 'steal' population from regions they pass through. I see Quinton had a similar idea that can build on this. With regards to their armies, making them work similar to militia in some ways might not be a bad idea, though it'd make things harder to balance.

    Their resources would be more limited due to not being settled and having limited numbers (an amount not fully decided on yet), thereby having less of them in amount, and resources they have would also have to be capable of being moved around, so no mineables for instance.

    Further, nomads would have to be of a certain type, choosing between land or sea nomads, allowing for a flavorful distinction. They could build trade posts anywhere within their 'domain' (all land regions and underground regions minus island regions for land nomads, all coastal, island and underwater regions for sea nomads) and their trade would be very hard to block due to their moving around all the time. It'd be possible for them to change type with a project (minor or great, hasn't been decided yet).
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    Default Re: EMPIRE! CWBG IX: We Keep Score With Bragging Rights! Many Prowess, Such Revolutio

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDarkDM View Post
    Did someone forget...the Mongols!?

    I think we really need to establish what is meant in the game by a nomad society. Historical nomad societies still had a vague territory that defined their ranging ground - that fits broadly with the core rules of the game. However, if Tychris' intent is a globe trotting society of hyper-unified Roma, then I think Blade's rules are a good place to start.
    I was operating under the assumption that we were going with something more able to move peaceably through other people's lands than the Scythians or Huns or Mongols for pretty much the reason you brought up.

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintonBeck View Post
    On the note of nomadic cultures, I like a lot of what you've cooked up Blade but the one thing that bugs me is resources. Adding in an additional qualifier to the [Good] [Great] dichotomy as having single trade items would isn't necessarily something I can get behind just because it alters a rather core concept for the sake of an add on element. What I might suggest instead is that a nomadic people gain access to any Great Resources in a region as a Good Resource for themselves, capable of establishing it as such either through an action or through staying in the region possessing the Great Resource for one or more turns, with the ability to acquire up to three resources this way. The logistical issue of how they maintain a supply of something such as Shintouite or some other localized resource that isn't something that can be planted is an issue but the same issue is present in the other proposal as well.

    Thus, a nomad group has to travel to Great Resource possessing nations prompting a greater roaming encouragement without introducing a third Resource amount type.

    Something else to consider is the possibility of people joining the nomads or nomads joining the people of a region they're staying in. It might overcomplicate the game, but it might be interesting to have a Diplomacy roll off between host and nomads when the nomads depart to see if any of the nomads decide to settle or any of the civilized folk decide to join the nomad culture as they ramble on.

    On the note of military and militas, perhaps nomads are able to keep militas raised longer without spending an additional action allowing them to meet prolonged engagement where necessary.
    That's reasonable enough, I suppose. I'd considered it as a tradeoff and not in how well it interacted with the existing rules. (I am not a Game Design Student ).

    Your solution looks decent on paper too, though.

    (As for the Shintouite thing, my tentative answer is "rationing").

    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark View Post
    I've discussed some of the nomad rules ideas I had with Tychris via PM (sorry it's taking so long, man).

    Basically, I figure nomads might have a cap on population, but a higher percentage of them can be in the army and they would have a unique mechanic that would allow them to 'steal' population from regions they pass through. I see Quinton had a similar idea that can build on this. With regards to their armies, making them work similar to militia in some ways might not be a bad idea, though it'd make things harder to balance.

    Their resources would be more limited due to not being settled and having limited numbers (an amount not fully decided on yet), thereby having less of them in amount, and resources they have would also have to be capable of being moved around, so no mineables for instance.

    Further, nomads would have to be of a certain type, choosing between land or sea nomads, allowing for a flavorful distinction. They could build trade posts anywhere within their 'domain' (all land regions and underground regions minus island regions for land nomads, all coastal, island and underwater regions for sea nomads) and their trade would be very hard to block due to their moving around all the time. It'd be possible for them to change type with a project (minor or great, hasn't been decided yet).
    I'd considered the possibility of dedicated land/sea nomads, but couldn't think of any way to really implement it. One thing you'd definitely want, though, is either some exception to the normal cap when it comes to trading posts or something meaningful that the Nomads can offer in return, else they're basically limited to an entirely parasitic existence or outright banditry.

    If that's the case, they'll basically be intolerable IC and additionally intolerable OOC if there isn't any reliable countermeasure available.
    Last edited by BladeofObliviom; 2014-10-11 at 02:03 AM.

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    Default Re: EMPIRE! CWBG IX: We Keep Score With Bragging Rights! Many Prowess, Such Revolutio

    Quote Originally Posted by BladeofObliviom View Post

    I'd considered the possibility of dedicated land/sea nomads, but couldn't think of any way to really implement it. One thing you'd definitely want, though, is either some exception to the normal cap when it comes to trading posts or something meaningful that the Nomads can offer in return, else they're basically limited to an entirely parasitic existence or outright banditry.

    If that's the case, they'll basically be intolerable IC and additionally intolerable OOC if there isn't any reliable countermeasure available.
    A way to get round that might be a trade-off for having the nomads present. In IC terms they might be leaching resources but they're also adding to the labour force, so maybe a player who has nomads in one of their region could correspondingly take one of the nomads' actions for the round, or if that's a bit much, gain temporary bonuses on some rolls. That would depend on a lot of other factors though and I haven't thought it through enormously, but giving players a reason to tolerate the nomads rather than kick them out automatically is probably a good idea. Depending on the type of nomads we're talking about and the scale of their population, of course.
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    Default Re: EMPIRE! CWBG IX: We Keep Score With Bragging Rights! Many Prowess, Such Revolutio

    Realized we need a volunteer for opening the next round. I can do it, but I've done it so much I figure if someone else wants to try their hand at it they're welcome to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by QuintonBeck View Post
    Realized we need a volunteer for opening the next round. I can do it, but I've done it so much I figure if someone else wants to try their hand at it they're welcome to.
    I might be able to do it, although I've also done it a couple of times and I'm not 100% sure I'll be free next Sunday, though I'll know well before the weekend.
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    Default Re: EMPIRE! CWBG IX: We Keep Score With Bragging Rights! Many Prowess, Such Revolutio

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintonBeck View Post
    Realized we need a volunteer for opening the next round. I can do it, but I've done it so much I figure if someone else wants to try their hand at it they're welcome to.
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    I was thinking about black powder earlier for some reason, probably after the discussions on steam power, and it occurred to me that although there appears to be a general assumption that Telluris will eventually adopt black powder weapons on a larger and more sophisticated scale, that could be open to question. The fire lances and the like we have at the moment are essentially mobile artillery and there is definitely grounds for development on that side of things: black powder artillery was an effective battlefield tool.

    Black powder small arms, on the other hand, I'm not so sure about. Early black powder small arms were pretty much rubbish: inaccurate, short-ranged, unreliable, vulnerable to damp and with a dreadful rate of fire. In terms of battlefield performance they were not significantly better than a crossbow and probably inferior to high-quality direct-draw archery. Their armour-piercing capacity was perhaps better than a bow, but even so it wasn't anything to write home about. Their main advantages were logistical: it took much less time to train people to use black powder (there's no point in becoming an expert in a weapon that can't hit a barn door anyway and stands a reasonable chance of exploding in your face) and transporting the ammunition is easier - though more dangerous - than arrows and crossbow bolts. The widespread adoption of black powder was one of the reasons that armies became so monstrously huge during the seventeenth century compared to a hundred years earlier.

    But on Telluris, the populations of a given region are so tiny that armies that size aren't physically possible in the first place. (Well, they are, but it takes a reasonable amount of collaboration). Training the entire capable population for war is already the norm: I guess black powder could help shortcut training, but that's likely to make the troops less effective rather than more, assuming current armies maintain a reasonable ranged component at all. And there's the military cap, too. Moreover, armour in Telluris is likely rather better than it was on Earth (given the existence of supermetals) so the armour-piercing effect is likely to be lessened, and we even have crossbows that yell terrifying noises at the enemy, so any psychological edge provided by the noise is also relatively minimal. As such, I wonder if there's any reason for anyone actually to adopt arquebuses, handguns and the like rather than focus on making archery more effective.

    I daresay that rifles would come into use probably as toys, hunting weapons and specialist weapons for the rich, privileged and some exceptional snipers, and pistols might be used for portability, but they wouldn't be manufactured on a large scale. Once breech-loading and, more pertinently, automatic reloading, becomes available then rifles would start to pick up an advantage over archery, but that's probably a long way down the line and would herald a completely different era of warfare.

    I suspect then, any significant developments in black powder technology would be artillery-side and it might make its way across to infantry "fully-formed", circumventing the musketry phase altogether. I'd be interested to see what others think.
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    Default Re: EMPIRE! CWBG IX: We Keep Score With Bragging Rights! Many Prowess, Such Revolutio

    Quote Originally Posted by Aedilred View Post
    I suspect then, any significant developments in black powder technology would be artillery-side and it might make its way across to infantry "fully-formed", circumventing the musketry phase altogether. I'd be interested to see what others think.
    I suspect all of that might go to explain it if someone uses C10 to say, "We have Rifles now!"

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    Default Re: EMPIRE! CWBG IX: We Keep Score With Bragging Rights! Many Prowess, Such Revolutio

    Quote Originally Posted by DoomHat View Post
    I suspect all of that might go to explain it if someone uses C10 to say, "We have Rifles now!"
    Well, I wouldn't be surprised if that happened, although I'd note that "circumvent" and "shortcut" are not by any means synonyms.
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