Support the GITP forums on Patreon
Help support GITP's forums (and ongoing server maintenance) via Patreon
Results 1 to 20 of 20
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    RedKnightGirl

    Join Date
    Aug 2014

    Question [3.5] Can Ardents be a suitable replacement for Psion in cerebremancer build

    I want to say that I still have a very shaky understanding of 3.5e mechanics. If I say something that doesn't make sense, it's likely because I failed to understand the rules correctly. I apologize in advance and I'd appreciate any corrections offered. Thanks!

    I wanted to make a cerebremancer build for battlefield control. Our campaign's party is currently at an ECL of 9 with a kender rogue, a human bard/mindbender, a druid/hathran, a human ranger/highland stalker, and a wizard/shadowcraft mage. We are permitted by our DM to use any sourcebook (excluding dragonlance) as well as web material. I originally planned to multiclass Wizard 2/Psion 3/Cerebremancer 7 Half-Nymph (Dragon #313) Kalashtar (Races of Eberron) (LA+2). The DM has given us a bonus feat for backstories and another bonus feat due to a mistake we just rolled with at the beginning of the campaign.

    I read a suggestion online that Ardents can be used in place of Psion, utilizing the Extended Class: Ardent article (here) to customize mantles to access a similar variety of Powers Known as Psions. A friend recommended I could use Precocious Apprentice and Practiced Manifester for early entry into the prc.

    My questions are: can I use Ardent as a suitable replacement to Psion? Have I understood the principles of early entry correctly? Is the extra BAB and HD worth using Ardent over Psion?

    Any suggestions on how to better construct this cerebremancer build would be quite welcome. I know the slayer build would result in less lost MLs, but that particular build is actually going to be another back-up character. Thank you all for your help!
    Last edited by Ninane; 2014-10-22 at 06:53 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Kobold

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5] Can Ardents be a suitable replacement for Psion in cerebremancer build

    It'd work, but you lose the INT synergy, which is a pain in the butt (Unless my memory is totally faulty and Ardents use Intelligence, but I'm pretty sure they use wisdom for Manifesting). Also, I think you could get away with Wizard 1/Ardent 3 (assuming you're using precocious apprentice).
    Steam ID: The Great Squark
    3ds Friend Code: 4571-1588-1000

    Currently Playing: Warhammer 40000, Hades, Stellaris, Warframe

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    RedKnightGirl

    Join Date
    Aug 2014

    Default Re: [3.5] Can Ardents be a suitable replacement for Psion in cerebremancer build

    ...Oh. Crap. One of the most fundamental aspects of the build and I've overlooked it. @[email protected] That basically makes everything else moot unless there's an arcane casting class not included on this list that uses wis as their casting stat.

    Thank you for your help.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Red Fel's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2013

    Default Re: [3.5] Can Ardents be a suitable replacement for Psion in cerebremancer build

    Well, let's look at several things:
    1. BAB is overrated. You are playing a caster. Your typical action in a turn will be to manifest powers, not to perform an attack. As such, your BAB isn't an integral part of your build.
    2. The two classes are comparable. They get the same saves and progression of PP/day.
    3. But there are also areas where Psion is better. Psion gets more powers known (36 at 20, as opposed to Ardent's 21). Psion can pick from a more comprehensive list - all Psion powers are available, as opposed to the Ardent, who must choose from his limited mantle list (although they can be tweaked to taste). Psion gains bonus feats, and access to some rather diverse ACFs; Ardent gains more mantles, and that's basically it. (As an aside, Kalashtar also have access to Kalashtar Psion racial substitution levels.)
    4. As Squark mentioned, there is synergy to consider. A Psion, like a Wizard, really only needs to focus on one ability score - Int - and the rest takes care of itself. An Ardent/Wizard has to focus on both Int and Wis. While that's not a tremendous sacrifice, keep in mind that your key ability score is the limit on your use of powers and spells, and cranking both of those to 19+ won't be easy.

    Now, as to your question about early entry, let's see. Cerebremancer requires skill ranks, and the ability to cast 2nd-level spells and manifest 2nd-level powers. Ignoring whether you meet the skill checks, let's look at the other two requirements.
    • Spells: Precocious Apprentice gives you an extra 2nd-level spell slot, and if you're too low-level to cast 2nd-level spells, you can use it subject to some restrictions. I would argue that this counts as "ability to cast 2nd-level spells," and therefore qualifies you. Well done.
    • Powers: Practiced Manifester does not give you the ability to manifest higher-level powers. It simply increases your manifester level, which impacts the amount of points you can spend on a power and any level-dependent variable effects a power may have. That said, a Psion 3 can use 2nd-level powers; I believe an Ardent 3 can as well.
    As such, yes, assuming you meet the skill prereqs, Wizard 1 (with Precocious Apprentice) and Ardent 3 should qualify you for Cerebremancer.
    My headache medicine has a little "Ex" inscribed on the pill. It's not a brand name; it's an indicator that it works inside an Anti-Magic Field.

    Blue text means sarcasm. Purple text means evil. White text is invisible.

    My signature got too big for its britches. So now it's over here!

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Flumph

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5] Can Ardents be a suitable replacement for Psion in cerebremancer build

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
    Powers: Practiced Manifester does not give you the ability to manifest higher-level powers. It simply increases your manifester level, which impacts the amount of points you can spend on a power and any level-dependent variable effects a power may have. That said, a Psion 3 can use 2nd-level powers; I believe an Ardent 3 can as well.[/list]As such, yes, assuming you meet the skill prereqs, Wizard 1 (with Precocious Apprentice) and Ardent 3 should qualify you for Cerebremancer.
    Ardent's maximum power level is based on their manifester level, not their class level. While they're less powerful than a single-classed Psion, they're much more dip-friendly because of this.

    OP: would Psychic Theurge work for you, or are you set on an arcane caster?

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

    Join Date
    May 2012

    Default Re: [3.5] Can Ardents be a suitable replacement for Psion in cerebremancer build

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
    Well, let's look at several things:
    1. BAB is overrated. You are playing a caster. Your typical action in a turn will be to manifest powers, not to perform an attack. As such, your BAB isn't an integral part of your build.
    2. The two classes are comparable. They get the same saves and progression of PP/day.
    3. But there are also areas where Psion is better. Psion gets more powers known (36 at 20, as opposed to Ardent's 21). Psion can pick from a more comprehensive list - all Psion powers are available, as opposed to the Ardent, who must choose from his limited mantle list (although they can be tweaked to taste). Psion gains bonus feats, and access to some rather diverse ACFs; Ardent gains more mantles, and that's basically it. (As an aside, Kalashtar also have access to Kalashtar Psion racial substitution levels.)
    4. As Squark mentioned, there is synergy to consider. A Psion, like a Wizard, really only needs to focus on one ability score - Int - and the rest takes care of itself. An Ardent/Wizard has to focus on both Int and Wis. While that's not a tremendous sacrifice, keep in mind that your key ability score is the limit on your use of powers and spells, and cranking both of those to 19+ won't be easy.

    Now, as to your question about early entry, let's see. Cerebremancer requires skill ranks, and the ability to cast 2nd-level spells and manifest 2nd-level powers. Ignoring whether you meet the skill checks, let's look at the other two requirements.
    • Spells: Precocious Apprentice gives you an extra 2nd-level spell slot, and if you're too low-level to cast 2nd-level spells, you can use it subject to some restrictions. I would argue that this counts as "ability to cast 2nd-level spells," and therefore qualifies you. Well done.
    • Powers: Practiced Manifester does not give you the ability to manifest higher-level powers. It simply increases your manifester level, which impacts the amount of points you can spend on a power and any level-dependent variable effects a power may have. That said, a Psion 3 can use 2nd-level powers; I believe an Ardent 3 can as well.
    As such, yes, assuming you meet the skill prereqs, Wizard 1 (with Precocious Apprentice) and Ardent 3 should qualify you for Cerebremancer.
    All true except that an ardent can choose powers based on manifested level, not total ardent level (at least after 1st).

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Red Fel's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2013

    Default Re: [3.5] Can Ardents be a suitable replacement for Psion in cerebremancer build

    Quote Originally Posted by Baroknik View Post
    All true except that an ardent can choose powers based on manifested level, not total ardent level (at least after 1st).
    ... Huh, I think you're right. Yeah, Ardent manifesting has always puzzled me a bit.
    My headache medicine has a little "Ex" inscribed on the pill. It's not a brand name; it's an indicator that it works inside an Anti-Magic Field.

    Blue text means sarcasm. Purple text means evil. White text is invisible.

    My signature got too big for its britches. So now it's over here!

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    RedKnightGirl

    Join Date
    Aug 2014

    Default Re: [3.5] Can Ardents be a suitable replacement for Psion in cerebremancer build

    Quote Originally Posted by Divide by Zero View Post
    OP: would Psychic Theurge work for you, or are you set on an arcane caster?
    I guess I'd need to ask a question before I could say yes or no: is the divine spell list more useful for control purposes or the arcane? Up until this point, I've never played any sort of manifester or caster and until recently have never played with a dedicated spellcaster until our shadowcraft wizard joined the table to learn by proxy.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2007

    Default Re: [3.5] Can Ardents be a suitable replacement for Psion in cerebremancer build

    One thing you should keep in mind is that prestige classes, including Cerebremancer and Psychic Theurge, do not grant additional mantles to the Ardent. If you use early entry tricks to get in with a level 1 Ardent, you'll only have two mantles to choose powers from, and even at the "normal" third level entry, you'll be limited to only three mantles.

    This is a big reason why Psions or even Wilders are better than Ardents for this sort of thing.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Spamalot in the Playground
     
    Psyren's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5] Can Ardents be a suitable replacement for Psion in cerebremancer build

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninane View Post
    I guess I'd need to ask a question before I could say yes or no: is the divine spell list more useful for control purposes or the arcane? Up until this point, I've never played any sort of manifester or caster and until recently have never played with a dedicated spellcaster until our shadowcraft wizard joined the table to learn by proxy.
    Well, a theurge might be a bit much if this is your first caster and manifester ever. I would consider going with a straight-classed caster or manifester to learn the ropes more easily.

    Divine classes can control but it's not as easy for them at low levels - they miss out on some of the best control spells like sleep, glitterdust, grease, hypnotic pattern, stinking cloud etc. Depending on the splats you have available like BoED and SpC this can be mitigated somewhat. Druids are a little better off due to getting things like Entangle, Fog Cloud and Soften Earth & Stone, but theurging with a druid means giving up Wild Shape.

    Another option is going with Psion like you planned, but for the divine class picking Archivist - that will restore your Int synergy and give you access to more control through domain spells, if your DM is willing to let you find them at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Quote Originally Posted by gogogome View Post
    Cheers to Psyren the MVP "naysayer".
    Plague Doctor by Crimmy
    Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    France
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5] Can Ardents be a suitable replacement for Psion in cerebremancer build

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninane View Post
    I wanted to make a cerebremancer build for battlefield control. Our campaign's party is currently at an ECL of 9 with a kender rogue, a human bard/mindbender, a druid/hathran, a human ranger/highland stalker, and a wizard/shadowcraft mage. We are permitted by our DM to use any sourcebook (excluding dragonlance) as well as web material. I originally planned to multiclass Wizard 2/Psion 3/Cerebremancer 7 Half-Nymph (Dragon #313) Kalashtar (Races of Eberron) (LA+2). The DM has given us a bonus feat for backstories and another bonus feat due to a mistake we just rolled with at the beginning of the campaign. I read a suggestion online that Ardents can be used in place of Psion, utilizing the Extended Class: Ardent article (here) to customize mantles to access a similar variety of Powers Known as Psions.
    Yes, the one ACF that can make Ardent more powerful than the Psion if applied with two much leniency.

    My questions are: can I use Ardent as a suitable replacement to Psion? Have I understood the principles of early entry correctly? Is the extra BAB and HD worth using Ardent over Psion?
    On Gish build, with the ACF you mentioned, yes. On pure caster build, not really.

    Quote Originally Posted by Squark View Post
    It'd work, but you lose the INT synergy, which is a pain in the butt (Unless my memory is totally faulty and Ardents use Intelligence, but I'm pretty sure they use wisdom for Manifesting). Also, I think you could get away with Wizard 1/Ardent 3 (assuming you're using precocious apprentice).
    Ardent are keyed on Wis, yes. They are some kind of Psionic Cleric, IMHO. But not as bad as the Divine Mind.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninane View Post
    ...Oh. Crap. One of the most fundamental aspects of the build and I've overlooked it. @[email protected] That basically makes everything else moot unless there's an arcane casting class not included on this list that uses wis as their casting stat.
    AFAIK, there are no arcane casting class that use Wis as primary stat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Divide by Zero View Post
    Ardent's maximum power level is based on their manifester level, not their class level. While they're less powerful than a single-classed Psion, they're much more dip-friendly because of this.
    And how does it work for other manifesters and spellcasters? When a PrC gives "+1 level" it allows to gain spell per day / power point and spells / power known.

    Quote Originally Posted by ranagrande View Post
    One thing you should keep in mind is that prestige classes, including Cerebremancer and Psychic Theurge, do not grant additional mantles to the Ardent. If you use early entry tricks to get in with a level 1 Ardent, you'll only have two mantles to choose powers from, and even at the "normal" third level entry, you'll be limited to only three mantles.
    This is a good point. Some DM allow to gain new mantle with PrC, however.

    One of the perks of the Psychic Theurge compared to Cerebremancer is the Ur-Priest. Its fast spell progression making dual casting PrC much more usable and even powerful.
    Last edited by Petrocorus; 2014-10-23 at 10:33 AM.
    ------- 5E MM Resistances, Immunities, Vulnerabilities, and Damage. - - Petrocorus' Paladin Builds List. - - French vs. English

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam K View Post
    Sun Tzu never had tier problems. If he had to deal with D&D, the Art of War would read "Full casters or GTFO".
    Quote Originally Posted by King Louis XIII in The Musketeers
    Common sense is for commoners, not for [ PC ].

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Fairfield, CA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5] Can Ardents be a suitable replacement for Psion in cerebremancer build

    Quote Originally Posted by Petrocorus View Post
    AFAIK, there are no arcane casting class that use Wis as primary stat.
    There is one.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Titan in the Playground
     
    tyckspoon's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5] Can Ardents be a suitable replacement for Psion in cerebremancer build

    Quote Originally Posted by Petrocorus View Post
    Yes, the one ACF that can make Ardent more powerful than the Psion if applied with two much leniency.



    And how does it work for other manifesters and spellcasters? When a PrC gives "+1 level" it allows to gain spell per day / power point and spells / power known.
    Dominant Ideal is generally considered the 'power' ACF for Ardents, but customizing mantles certainly doesn't hurt.

    The difference with Ardents is their power selection is tied to manifester level, not class level. A Wizard 13/noncasting class 4 can only use level 7 spells where a Wizard 17 can use 9ths, regardless of their caster levels- the important thing is their Wizard class levels. An Ardent 13/whatever 4 can use Practiced Manifester to make up the difference and select from the same 8th and 9th level powers as his Ardent 17 colleague.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    France
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5] Can Ardents be a suitable replacement for Psion in cerebremancer build

    Quote Originally Posted by tyckspoon View Post
    Dominant Ideal is generally considered the 'power' ACF for Ardents, but customizing mantles certainly doesn't hurt.

    The difference with Ardents is their power selection is tied to manifester level, not class level. A Wizard 13/noncasting class 4 can only use level 7 spells where a Wizard 17 can use 9ths, regardless of their caster levels- the important thing is their Wizard class levels. An Ardent 13/whatever 4 can use Practiced Manifester to make up the difference and select from the same 8th and 9th level powers as his Ardent 17 colleague.
    Oh yeah, THAT, i know people keep bringing this thing up. First, the feat explicitly says it don't affect the powers known. And second, this is obviously a bad wording of the Ardent description. It it was really intended to allow that, i'm pretty sure there would be a specific paragraph about this ability in the Ardent description. Have you any source from WotC that says that the Ardent really work like this?
    Last edited by Petrocorus; 2014-10-23 at 12:03 PM.
    ------- 5E MM Resistances, Immunities, Vulnerabilities, and Damage. - - Petrocorus' Paladin Builds List. - - French vs. English

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam K View Post
    Sun Tzu never had tier problems. If he had to deal with D&D, the Art of War would read "Full casters or GTFO".
    Quote Originally Posted by King Louis XIII in The Musketeers
    Common sense is for commoners, not for [ PC ].

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Titan in the Playground
     
    AmberVael's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: [3.5] Can Ardents be a suitable replacement for Psion in cerebremancer build

    Quote Originally Posted by Petrocorus View Post
    Oh yeah, THAT, i know people keep bringing this thing up. First, the feat explicitly says it don't affect the powers known. And second, this is obviously a bad wording of the Ardent description. It it was really intended to allow that, i'm pretty sure there would be a specific paragraph about this ability in the Ardent description. Have you any source from WotC that says that the Ardent really work like this?
    First, no one is claiming it gives you more powers known. However, due to the wording of the Ardent's method of learning powers known, it means you can select higher level powers simply by increasing your manifester level.

    And yes, there IS a specific paragraph about this ability in the Ardent description, under powers known where it describes that they can learn any power that they can pay enough points to manifest. And the source from WotC that indicates that Ardents really work like this is the fact that class is described that way, there is no other place where limits on power level is described for the Ardent, and their description of how they get high level powers is different from every other class including those in the same book. No further clarification is needed unless it doesn't work the way it is explicitly described as working.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    France
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5] Can Ardents be a suitable replacement for Psion in cerebremancer build

    Quote Originally Posted by AmberVael View Post
    First, no one is claiming it gives you more powers known. However, due to the wording of the Ardent's method of learning powers known, it means you can select higher level powers simply by increasing your manifester level.

    And yes, there IS a specific paragraph about this ability in the Ardent description, under powers known where it describes that they can learn any power that they can pay enough points to manifest. And the source from WotC that indicates that Ardents really work like this is the fact that class is described that way, there is no other place where limits on power level is described for the Ardent, and their description of how they get high level powers is different from every other class including those in the same book. No further clarification is needed unless it doesn't work the way it is explicitly described as working.
    I understand your argument, and i know this is RAW, but i just don't understand how this kind of thing would be intentional on the part of the writer.
    ------- 5E MM Resistances, Immunities, Vulnerabilities, and Damage. - - Petrocorus' Paladin Builds List. - - French vs. English

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam K View Post
    Sun Tzu never had tier problems. If he had to deal with D&D, the Art of War would read "Full casters or GTFO".
    Quote Originally Posted by King Louis XIII in The Musketeers
    Common sense is for commoners, not for [ PC ].

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Titan in the Playground
     
    AmberVael's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: [3.5] Can Ardents be a suitable replacement for Psion in cerebremancer build

    Quote Originally Posted by Petrocorus View Post
    I understand your argument, and i know this is RAW, but i just don't understand how this kind of thing would be intentional on the part of the writer.
    Okay, assume it doesn't work like that. How DO you determine the maximum power level known for the Ardent? If its bad wording, what was their intention? Is there any other possible explanation that you can derive from the description, even using the assumption of "well given a lot of the other terrible stuff in Complete Psionic, they must have been hammered when they wrote a lot of this?"

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Spamalot in the Playground
     
    Psyren's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5] Can Ardents be a suitable replacement for Psion in cerebremancer build

    More than likely it wasn't intended, but that's not a big deal imo. While you can use this to skip power levels and gain entry to PrCs with minimal Ardent levels, you also gut your PP progression to do it. And compared to the early entry tricks available to magic (Precocious Apprentice, Krau Illunian, racial SLAs), this is nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Quote Originally Posted by gogogome View Post
    Cheers to Psyren the MVP "naysayer".
    Plague Doctor by Crimmy
    Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    France
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5] Can Ardents be a suitable replacement for Psion in cerebremancer build

    Quote Originally Posted by AmberVael View Post
    Okay, assume it doesn't work like that. How DO you determine the maximum power level known for the Ardent? If its bad wording, what was their intention? Is there any other possible explanation that you can derive from the description, even using the assumption of "well given a lot of the other terrible stuff in Complete Psionic, they must have been hammered when they wrote a lot of this?"
    I always assumed it work like Psion, Wilder and any full manifester / spellcaster classes. Class level plus PrC level that explicitly raise you manifester level, power point, power known and maximum level of powers. I know i'm the one houseruling here, but that's the most logical to me. IMHO, An Ardent 6 / Slayer 4 manifests as an Ardent level 9 and his maximum level of power is 5. An Ardent 6 / Fighter 4 has a maximum level of power known of 3, Practised Manifester or not.

    Remember that, by RAW, an Erudite 20 has 11 Unique Powers per level per day. Or that a Vigilante 7 has 20 3rd level spells/days.
    Sometimes, you have to try to guess what was the intent, not every mistake are as obvious as the Vigilante one. So, i may be wrong, but i always assumed the Ardent should be working as the Psion for maximum level of power known.
    Last edited by Petrocorus; 2014-10-23 at 01:54 PM.
    ------- 5E MM Resistances, Immunities, Vulnerabilities, and Damage. - - Petrocorus' Paladin Builds List. - - French vs. English

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam K View Post
    Sun Tzu never had tier problems. If he had to deal with D&D, the Art of War would read "Full casters or GTFO".
    Quote Originally Posted by King Louis XIII in The Musketeers
    Common sense is for commoners, not for [ PC ].

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2012

    Default Re: [3.5] Can Ardents be a suitable replacement for Psion in cerebremancer build

    IIRC the author once said it was an oversight on his part.

    However, that's pretty much the only significant ardent saving grace, and pretty much everyone remembers the class for this one 'oversight', so I would say it's fine, really. It opens the class to be more versatile, gives it a sweet niche and, overall, makes it more fun. What's not to like?

    For the limited powers known I would recommend Psychic Chirurgery to cover some basics, but it can get expensive really fast.

    But you still lose the INT synergy. But if you're just looking to theurge, an Archivist might work just as good as a wizard on most cases. It's actually weaker at high-op(not tippy-op, where archivists have access to every spell ever, of course ) but overall you got your bases covered, no problems.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •