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    Default The Night Soul- Stealth and Shadow Magic (Fixed-list Caster Project) 3.5, PEACH

    It was recently pointed out to me that my Fixed List Caster Project/Giants and Graveyards lacked a good shadow-magic using class. So... here we go:

    Night Soul

    Hit Die: d6
    Class Skills: The Night Soul’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Disable Device (Int), Escape Artist (Dex), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (the planes) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Open Lock (Dex), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), and Tumble (Dex).
    Skill Points at 1st level: (6+Intelligence modifier) x4
    Skill Points at each additional level: 6+Intelligence modifier

    Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special 0 lv 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th
    1st +0 +0 +2 +2 Shadow Sight (Low-Light Vision), Armored Mage, Trapfinding 5 3 — — — — — — — —
    2nd +1 +0 +3 +3 Darkstalker 6 4 — — — — — — — —
    3rd +2 +1 +3 +3 Following Dark 6 5 3 — — — — — — —
    4th +3 +1 +4 +4 Shadow Sight (All Darkness), Eclectic Learning 6 6 4 — — — — — — —
    5th +3 +1 +4 +4 Shadow Strike, Share the Shadows (Low-Light Vision) 6 6 5 3 — — — — — —
    6th +4 +2 +5 +5 Share the Shadow, Eclectic Learning 6 6 6 4 — — — — — —
    7th +5 +2 +5 +5 Shadow’s Devotion 6 6 6 5 3 — — — — —
    8th +6/+1 +2 +6 +6 Shadow Sight (Blindsense), Eclectic Learning 6 6 6 6 4 — — — — —
    9th +6/+1 +3 +6 +6 Cloak of the Night 6 6 6 6 5 3 — — — —
    10th +7/+2 +3 +7 +7 Share the Shadows (All Darkness), Eclectic Learning, 6 6 6 6 6 4 — — — —
    11th +8/+3 +3 +7 +7 Night Casting 6 6 6 6 6 5 3 — — —
    12th +9/+4 +4 +8 +8 Shadow Sight (Blindsight), Eclectic Learning 6 6 6 6 6 6 4 — — —
    13th +9/+4 +4 +8 +8 Spread the Night 6 6 6 6 6 6 5 3 — —
    14th +10/+5 +4 +9 +9 Eclectic Learning 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 4 — —
    15th +11/+6/+1 +5 +9 +9 Share the Shadows (Blindsense) 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 5 3 —
    16th +12/+7/+2 +5 +10 +10 Shadow Sight (True Seeing), Eclectic Learning 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 4 —
    17th +12/+7/+2 +5 +10 +10 Shadow Nova 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 5 3
    18th +13/+8/+3 +6 +11 +11 Eclectic Learning 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 4
    19th +14/+9/+4 +6 +11 +11 Veil of Night 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 5
    20th +15/+10/+5 +6 +12 +12 Soul of Shadow, Eclectic Learning 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6

    Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: Night Souls are proficient with all simple weapons, plus the hand crossbow, rapier, sap, shortbow, and short sword. Night Souls are proficient with light armor, but not with shields.

    Spells: A Night Soul casts arcane spells, which are drawn from the Night Soul spell list below. When he gains access to a new level of spells, he automatically knows all the spells for that level on the Night Soul’s spell list. He can cast any spell he knows without preparing it ahead of time. Essentially, his spell list is the same as his spells known list. He also has the option of adding to his existing spell list through his Eclectic Learning class feature (see below) as he increases in level.

    To cast a Night Soul spell, a Night Soul must have an Wisdom score of 10 + the spell's level (Wis 10 for 0-level spells, Wis 11 for 1st-level spells, and so forth). The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a Night Soul’s spell is 10 + the spell's level + the Night Soul’s Wisdom modifier. Like other spellcasters, a Night Soul can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. The base daily spell allotment is given on the table above. In addition, he receives bonus spells for a high Wisdom score (PH 8).

    A Night Soul need not prepare spells in advance. He can cast any spell he knows at any time, assuming he has not yet used up his spells per day for that spell level.

    Shadow Sight (Su): At 1st level, a Night Soul gains low-light vision, and darkvision out to a distance of ten feet per point of his Wisdom modifier. In addition, he may treat magical darkness as normal darkness for the purposes of seeing through it.

    At 4th level, a Night Soul may see perfectly through all types of darkness, ignoring all penalties for shadowy or no illumination.

    At 8th level, a Night Soul gains blindsense, out to a distance of twenty feet per point of his Wisdom modifier. However, unlike normal blindsense, a Night Soul’s ability only functions against targets in areas of shadowy or no illumination.

    At 12th level, a Night Soul’s blindsense improves to blindsight, subject to the same limitations.

    At 16th level, a when observing an area of shadowy or no illumination, a Night Soul functions as though under the effects of a True Seeing spell.

    Armored Mage (Ex): Normally, armor of any type interferes with an arcane spellcaster’s gestures, which can cause spells to fail if those spells have a somatic component. A Night Soul’s limited focus and specialized training, however, allows him to avoid arcane spell failure so long as he sticks to light armor. This training does not extend to medium or heavy armors, nor to shields. This ability does not apply to spells gained from a different spellcasting class.

    Trapfinding: A Night Soul can use the Search skill to locate traps with a DC higher than 20, and he can use Disable Device to bypass a trap or disarm magic traps. See the rogue class feature, page 50 of the Player's Handbook.

    Darkstalker: Beginning at 2nd level, a Night Soul gains Darkstalker (Lords of Madness) as a bonus feat. (If unavailable, he instead gains Skill Focus (Hide)).

    Following Dark (Su): Beginning at 3rd level, when leaving an area of shadowy or no illumination, a Night Soul remains wrapped in shadows until the start of his next turn, retaining any concealment the darkness might have granted. He does not retain any other special benefits he might gain while in the darkness, such as Shadow Strike (see below).

    Eclectic Learning: At 4th level, and every subsequent even-numbered level, a Night Soul learns one spell from the Sorcerer/Wizard list. If the spell is from the illusion school, or has the [Shadow] or [Darkness] descriptor, he learns it at its normal level. If it is not, he learns it one level higher than normal. He must be able to cast the spell at its adjusted level in order to learn it.

    Shadow Strike (Su): Beginning at 5th level, when in an area of shadowy or no illumination, a Night Soul gains an insight bonus to attack and damage rolls equal to his Wisdom modifier.

    Gift the Shadow (Su): Beginning at 5th level, a Night Soul may share his ability to see in the darkness with his closest allies. Doing so requires him to spend one hour and 250 gold worth of special inks to tattoo the designated ally. Once so marked, the ally gains low-light vision, and darkvision out to a distance of twenty feet per point of the Night Soul’s Wisdom modifier. In addition, he may treat magical darkness as normal darkness for the purposes of seeing through it. This ability functions as long as the Night Soul is conscious and on the same plane.

    At 10th level, you may spend another hour and 1,000 gold of special inks to grant an already-linked ally the ability to see perfectly through all types of darkness, ignoring all penalties for shadowy or no illumination.

    At 15th level, you may spend another hour and 5,000 gold of special inks to grant an already-linked ally blindsense, out to a distance of twenty feet per point of the Night Soul’s Wisdom modifier. However, unlike normal blindsense, this ability only functions against targets in areas of shadowy or no illumination.

    Spread the Shadow (Su): Beginning at 6th level, a Night Soul may use darkness as a supernatural ability, usable at will with a caster level equal to his Night Soul level. Unlike the spell, the radius of the area of magical darkness is equal to five times his Night Soul level. Additionally, he may sacrifice a spell slot of at least 1st level to use this ability as a move action, a spell slot of at least 2nd level to use it as a swift action, a spell slot of at least 4th level to use it as a free action, and a spell slot of at least 6th level to use it as an immediate action.

    Shadow’s Devotion (Su): Beginning at 7th level, when a Night Soul leaves an area with shadowy or no illumination and enters a well-lit region, shadows remain wrapped around him, creating an area of shadowy illumination in a 10 foot radius. They remain present for 1d4 times rounds. At 14th level, this duration improves to 1d4 minutes.

    Cloak of the Night (Su): Beginning at 9th level, a Night Soul may become invisible while in an area of shadowy or no illumination. This invisibility fades when the Night Soul takes an aggressive action, but may be reactivated as a swift action.

    Night Casting (Ex): Beginning at 11th level, a Night Soul gains a bonus to caster level equal to one-fourth his Night Soul level when casting a spell on a target in an area of shadowy or no illumination. If affected, the target or targets are engulfed in a shadows for the remaining duration of the spell, creating an area of shadowy illumination in a 5 foot radius.

    Spread the Night (Su): Beginning at 13th level, a Night Soul may use his Spread the Shadow ability as a swift action. Alternately, he may use it as a standard action. If he does, the ability instead creates and area of no illumination.

    Shadow Nova (Su): Beginning at 17th level, a Night Soul can plunge entire cities into darkness. Once per day as a standard action, he may create an area of shadowy illumination with a radius of one mile, plus one additional mile for every ten points of Wisdom he possesses. Inside the region, all light sources and light spells fail, unless their caster level is greater than the Night Soul’s level. Candles flicker out, torches refuse to light, and any ongoing [Light] effects are instantly dispelled. This effect lasts for one hour per point of the Night Soul’s Wisdom modifier. The region of shadow does not move once created.

    Veil of Night (Su): Beginning at 19th level, a Night Soul may become invisible and undetectable in any area of shadowy or no illumination, as though under the effects of a sequester spell. He may activate or deactivate this ability as a free action.

    Soul of Shadow (Su): Beginning at 20th level, a Night Soul becomes a living shadow. He gains the Incorporeal subtype, although he may switch between being solid and incorporeal as a swift action. While incorporeal, he cannot be seen at all in areas of no illumination, regardless of darkvision, true seeing, or similar such effects. He no longer needs to eat, sleep, or breathe, although he still must rest for eight hours to regain spells, and he neither ages nor dies of old age when his time is up. Finally, he may travel to or from the Plane of Shadow at will as a swift action.

    Night Soul Spells
    Spoiler
    Show

    0 Level Night Soul Spells
    • Detect Magic: Detects spells and magic items within 60 ft.
    • Inflict Minor Wounds: Touch attack, 1 point of damage.
    • Message: Whispered conversation at distance.
    • Read Magic: Read scrolls and spellbooks.
    • Silent Portal (SpC): Negates sound from door or window.
    • Touch of Fatigue: Touch attack fatigues target.


    1st Level Night Soul Spells
    • Darkness: 20-ft. radius of supernatural shadow.
    • Darkvision: See 60 ft. in total darkness.
    • Ebon Eyes (SpC): Subject can see through magical darkness.
    • Ectoplasmic Armor (SpC): Gain armor bonus against incorporeal touch attacks.
    • Inflict Light Wounds: Touch deals 1d8 damage +1/level (max +5).
    • Low-Light Vision (SpC): See twice as far as a human in poor illumination.
    • Net of Shadows (SpC): Ordinary shadows that provide concealment to all in the area.
    • Nightshield (SpC): You gain resistance bonus on saves, and spell absorbs magic missile damage.
    • Obscuring Mist: Fog surrounds you.
    • Ray of Enfeeblement: Ray deals 1d6 +1 per two levels Str damage.
    • Unseen Servant: Invisible force obeys your commands.
    • Wall of Smoke (SpC): Wall of black smoke obscures vision and nauseates those who pass through.


    2nd Level Night Soul Spells
    • Blur: Attacks miss subject 20% of the time.
    • Cloud of Bewilderment (SpC): Generates a nauseating 10-ft. cube.
    • Dark Way (SpC): Creates temporary unbreakable bridge supporting up to 200 lb./level.
    • Deeper Darkness: Object sheds supernatural shadow in 60-ft. radius.
    • Fog Cloud: Fog obscures vision.
    • Inflict Moderate Wounds: Touch attack, 2d8 damage +1/level (max +10).
    • Invisibility: Subject is invisible for 1 min./level or until it attacks.
    • Malevolent Miasma (SpC): Cloud of fog deals 1d4 nonlethal damage/level.
    • Shadow Mask (SpC): Grants +4 on saves against light spells, protection from gaze attacks.
    • Shadow Spray (SpC): Deals 4 points of Str damage and dazes.
    • Veil of Shadow (SpC): Darkness grants you concealment.
    • Wall of Gloom (SpC): Shadow barrier obscures vision.


    3rd Level Night Soul Spells
    • Blacklight (SpC): Create an area of total darkness.
    • Claws of Darkness (SpC): Claws deal 1d8 cold damage and have reach.
    • Dispel Magic: Cancels magical spells and effects.
    • Displacement: Attacks miss subject 50%.
    • Gaseous Form: Subject becomes insubstantial and can fly slowly.
    • Inflict Serious Wounds: Touch attack, 3d8 damage +1/level (max +15).
    • Invisibility Sphere: Makes everyone within 10 ft. invisible.
    • Misdirection: Misleads divinations for one creature or object.
    • Shadow Binding (SpC): Ribbonlike shadows entangle creatures in 10-ft.-radius burst.
    • Shadow Cache (SpC): You open a small portal to the Plane of Shadow through which you can put an item for later retrieval.
    • Shadow Phase (SpC): Subject becomes partially incorporeal.
    • Spectral Weapon (SpC): Use quasi-real weapon to make touch attacks.


    4th Level Night Soul Spells
    • Death Ward: Grants immunity to death spells and negative energy effects.
    • Enervation: Subject gains 1d4 negative levels.
    • Inflict Critical Wounds: Touch attack, 4d8 damage +1/level (max +20).
    • Invisibility, Greater: As invisibility, but subject can attack and stay invisible.
    • Negative Energy Aura (SpC): 10-ft. radius surrounding you deals 1 hp/3 levels for 1 round/level.
    • Phantasmal Killer: Fearsome illusion kills subject or deals 3d6 damage.
    • Poison: Touch deals 1d10 Con damage, repeats in 1 min.
    • Shadow Well (SpC): Subject enters gloomy pocket plane and emerges frightened.
    • Solid Fog: Blocks vision and slows movement.
    • Shadow Form (SpC): Gain +4 on Hide, Move Silently, and Escape Artist checks, and concealment; you can move through obstacles if you have ranks in Escape Artist.


    5th Level Night Soul Spells
    • Cloudkill: Kills 3 HD or less; 4-6 HD save or die, 6+ HD take Con damage.
    • Crawling Darkness (SpC): Shroud of tentacles conceals and protects you.
    • Doomtide (SpC): Black mist obscures sight, dazes those inside.
    • Miasma of Entropy (SpC): Rot all natural materials in 30-ft. cone-shaped burst.
    • Prying Eyes: 1d4 +1/level floating eyes scout for you.
    • Shadow Hand (SpC): Medium hand blocks opponents or carries items.
    • Shadowfade (SpC): Opens a portal to the Plane of Shadow.
    • Slay Living: Touch attack kills subject.
    • Spiritwall (SpC): Wall of spirit-forms causes panic, deals 1d10 damage if touched, can bestow negative levels if passed through.
    • Waves of Fatigue: Several targets become fatigued.


    6th Level Night Soul Spells
    • Circle of Death(M): Kills 1d4/level HD of creatures.
    • Dispel Magic, Greater: As dispel magic, but +20 on check.
    • Freezing Fog (SpC): Fog slows creatures, obscures vision, hinders movement.
    • Ghost Trap (SpC): Incorporeal creatures turn corporeal.
    • Harm: Deals 10 points/level damage to target.
    • Incorporeal Nova (SpC): Destroy incorporeal undead.
    • Ray of Entropy (SpC): Subject takes –4 Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution.
    • Shadow Walk: Step into shadow to travel rapidly.
    • Shadowy Grappler (SpC): Illusory force grapples subject.
    • Spectral Touch (SpC): Your touch bestows one negative level/round.


    7th Level Night Soul Spells
    • Antilife Shell: 10-ft. field hedges out living creatures.
    • Energy Ebb (SpC): Give subject one negative level/round for 1 round/level.
    • Evil Glare (SpC): Paralyze creatures with your glare.
    • Finger of Death: Kills one subject.
    • Invisibility, Mass: As invisibility, but affects all in range.
    • Sword of Darkness (SpC): Blade of negative energy bestows one or more negative levels.
    • Waves of Exhaustion: Several targets become exhausted.


    8th Level Night Soul Spells
    • Blackfire (SpC): Subject is engulfed in black flame, takes 1d4 Con damage and becomes nauseated; flames and effects can spread to adjacent living creatures.
    • Death Ward, Mass (SpC): As death ward, but more subjects.
    • Ghostform (SpC): You assume incorporeal form and gain some incorporeal traits and bonuses.
    • Heat Drain (SpC): Subjects take 1d6 cold damage/level, you gain equal amount hp.
    • Horrid Wilting: Deals 1d6/level damage within 30 ft.
    • Invisibility, Superior (SpC): Subject is invisible to sight, hearing, and scent for 1 minute/level, and can attack.


    9th Level Night Soul Spells
    • Black Blade of Disaster (SpC): Floating magic weapon disintegrates subjects.
    • Energy Drain: Subject gains 2d4 negative levels.
    • Etherealness: Travel to Ethereal Plane with companions.
    • Mind Blank: Subject is immune to mental/emotional magic and scrying.
    • Wail of the Banshee: Kills one creature/level.
    • Weird: As phantasmal killer, but affects all within 30 ft.


    Last edited by Grod_The_Giant; 2015-01-20 at 10:20 AM.

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    Pixie in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: The Night Soul- Stealth and Shadow Magic (Fixed-list Caster Project) 3.5, PEACH

    Hey hey mr!

    I'm new to the forms and just joined yesterday so I'm getting the hang of stuff. Just learned what peach meant about an hour ago ^_^. But yeah, was reading your class here and it sounds really really cool! I love the idea of mixing rogue and magic and I think all the shadow stuff is a nice fit for a rogue type character.

    I do have some issues with the class though but hey take them all with a grain of salt because I'm no pro or great D&D scholar of epic wisdom hee hee.

    First off I think this class is on the OP side. You get as many or more spells per day as wizard? ( I might be getting that wrong ) but still you are getting a ton of spells, saves, and sneak attack damage.

    You are basically a highly specialized wizard but you have a tons of additional stuff like more reflex saves, more skills, more HP, more AB, more proficiencies, light armor casting and sneak attack damage.

    Like I said though, take it all with a grain of salt. I think the class idea is great and I love the concept I just think it should be toned down.

    I know you must have your own direction and ideas for what this class is and should be but I honestly think it would make a better PRC class that required the ability to cast arcane spells and a base rank in hide and move silently or something.

    Last thing that has got me curious is why wisdom? I think charisma would make a lot more sense for this class.

    Any who sorry for the negative comments >_< I don't want to sound rude just giving my honest opinions on the matter and as I have stated before I'm not a pro at D&D so take my comments lightly. Looks cool though and love the focus and feel of the class just needs some tweaking like pretty much anything anyone ever makes.

    Thanks for the post!
    -Avelent

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    Default Re: The Night Soul- Stealth and Shadow Magic (Fixed-list Caster Project) 3.5, PEACH

    .
    I tend to agree with Avelent.

    This guy walks all over your Rogue.


    Since Giants & Graveyards is your system, maybe I'm not seeing the whole picture as you do, but I'm getting the impression that you're getting a bit carried away in raising the power dial too far up - especially when it comes to spellcasters.
    RPG is about confronting challenges, dealing with difficult odds and actually solving problems.
    I didn't do a deep exploration of the possibilities, but I believe that it wouldn't be too hard for me to assemble a 4-char Giants & Graveyards party that no later than 10th level could effortlessly overcome most obstacles you'd come up with and cope with off-the-scale CRs.

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    Default Re: The Night Soul- Stealth and Shadow Magic (Fixed-list Caster Project) 3.5, PEACH

    Alright. I'm a bit out of practice with homebrew here. Let's start by dropping the sneak attack and the hide/move silently boost, and cut back the DC boost on Night Casting. What else needs removed or pushed back? (And perhaps more importantly, what should replace cut class features?) Maybe dropping the stealth boosts in favor of summoning shadow-type monsters?


    @Avelent-- Welcome to the playground! The class is specialized, yes, but it's part of a larger series of rewrites I've done to replace the generic wizard or sorcerer with more thematically interesting (and limited) classes. I considered a PrC, but shadow magic seemed like a large and common enough theme that it should be possible from level 1, and none of my other classes could really do that.
    Last edited by Grod_The_Giant; 2014-10-28 at 09:04 AM.

    STaRS (and STaRS Lite)
    A non-narrativeist, generic rules-light system, by me. Now officially released!

    Grod's Guide to Greatness
    A big book of player options for 5e, by me

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Grod's Law: You cannot and should not balance bad mechanics by making them annoying to use
    Giants and Graveyards: My collected 3.5 class fixes and more.

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    Default Re: The Night Soul- Stealth and Shadow Magic (Fixed-list Caster Project) 3.5, PEACH

    @Avelent
    @Nonsi
    Explain how is class is any more powerful then the other fixed casters made? Does it somehow have more spells then other fixed casters, or more versatility?

    The only part I 'might' agree with is that Sneak Attack might be a bit much, but apart from that I don't see this class as OP. More a rogue is not just sneak attack, he is supposed to be the skill monkey.

    Lastly the whole point was to have a fixed list specialty shadow casting class after the style of the Beguiler and Dread Necromancer, making it a PrC would defeat the very purpose of this idea.
    -----------------

    Also, I was the one who had requested a tier 3 specialty shadow casting class after that of the Forgotten Realms - Shadow Adept and Underdark - Shadowcaster.

    Do you have any alternate suggestions to the above write up?


    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Maybe dropping the stealth boosts in favor of summoning shadow-type monsters?
    I would say yes to this
    Last edited by JonathonWilder; 2014-10-28 at 10:35 AM.

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    Default Re: The Night Soul- Stealth and Shadow Magic (Fixed-list Caster Project) 3.5, PEACH

    Hey hey ^_^

    Think it looks a lot better now and like I keep saying I love the class concept/feel. Good job!

    One thing that seems a bit odd to me is the ability that lets him cloak an entire city in darkness hee hee that seems a bit much. At level 20 you will probably have 20 wisdom yes? at least 19 anyways cus you want to be able to cast your level 9 spells. So the spell is one mile radius + one more mile per 10 wisdom. So your casting a darkness spell with a 3 mile radius which is a 6 mile diameter. That's pretty freaking huge. Ok so lets look at a normal darkness level 2 spell. It has a 20 foot radius. Yours has a 3 mile radius. There are 5280 feet in a mile so if you do the math yours is a 15840 foot radius (if 20 wisdom) which is 792 times bigger than a level 2 darkness spell hee hee. And if you have that 20 wisdom your modifier is 5 so it lasts 5 hours. Normally Darkness is 10 mins/level. A level 20 mage would make it last for 200 mins or 3 hours and 20 mins. Your spell lasts almost twice as long and covers almost 800 times the area.

    The level 20 thing also seems odd >_<. Being incorporeal is fine but I'm just surprised that your completely unseen even if someone has true seeing.

    I would remove the bit about true seeing and maybe tone down the area of effect of the city of darkness thing.

    But hey looks good! love the class Mr.

    Good job good changes
    -Avelent
    Last edited by Avelent; 2014-10-28 at 12:13 PM.

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    Default Re: The Night Soul- Stealth and Shadow Magic (Fixed-list Caster Project) 3.5, PEACH

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Let's start by dropping the sneak attack and the hide/move silently boost, and cut back the DC boost on Night Casting. What else needs removed or pushed back? (And perhaps more importantly, what should replace cut class features?) Maybe dropping the stealth boosts in favor of summoning shadow-type monsters?
    Much better.

    1. Shadow Nova - How does shadowy illumination affect normal sight / darkvision ?
    2. Soul of Shadow is a capstone, I know, but seems a bit too strong. I mean, attacking someone and then vanishing as a free action without a prayer for the target of ever fighting back - and it's limitless, so you could repeat all day long untill your target has exhausted all its resources....... and then it dies. And it can't even runaway, because you can now go through obstacles and incorporeal creatures don't ever get tired. Also, "becomes a living shadow" doesn't go well thematically with non-detectability in bright light.
    3. Notice the "Share the Shadows" (table) vs. "Gift the Shadow" (description) diff.
    4. I don't remember what the cut class features were.

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    Default Re: The Night Soul- Stealth and Shadow Magic (Fixed-list Caster Project) 3.5, PEACH

    Just noticed that I never finished revising the class. Whoops. He now has abilities at second and third level, and I've neutered other abilities here and there (mostly Shadow Strike and Soul of Shadow). How does he look now?

    STaRS (and STaRS Lite)
    A non-narrativeist, generic rules-light system, by me. Now officially released!

    Grod's Guide to Greatness
    A big book of player options for 5e, by me

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Grod's Law: You cannot and should not balance bad mechanics by making them annoying to use
    Giants and Graveyards: My collected 3.5 class fixes and more.

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    Default Re: The Night Soul- Stealth and Shadow Magic (Fixed-list Caster Project) 3.5, PEACH

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Just noticed that I never finished revising the class. Whoops. He now has abilities at second and third level, and I've neutered other abilities here and there (mostly Shadow Strike and Soul of Shadow). How does he look now?
    Even at level 20, a limitless ability to bypass all means of mortal detection is too much.
    Also, if a character doesn't age while incorporeal and only has advantages, the why would he ever revert to corporeal form?
    Interactions - let other worry about that. If no one can stop you, then who cares about interactions?

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    Default Re: The Night Soul- Stealth and Shadow Magic (Fixed-list Caster Project) 3.5, PEACH

    Quote Originally Posted by nonsi View Post
    Even at level 20, a limitless ability to bypass all means of mortal detection is too much.
    Also, if a character doesn't age while incorporeal and only has advantages, the why would he ever revert to corporeal form?
    Interactions - let other worry about that. If no one can stop you, then who cares about interactions?
    Wait a... did I not save that last set of edits? I thought I took out the part about bright light and reduced it to a swift action... did I lose anything else? Crap...

    But in any case, now all you need to do is throw out a few daylight spells.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Grod's Law: You cannot and should not balance bad mechanics by making them annoying to use
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  11. - Top - End - #11
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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: The Night Soul- Stealth and Shadow Magic (Fixed-list Caster Project) 3.5, PEACH

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    It was recently pointed out to me that my Fixed List Caster Project/Giants and Graveyards lacked a good shadow-magic using class.[/SPOILER]
    I... don't get this logic. I mean, it looks simple enough but it doesn't really add up.

    You use these fixed list classes to avoid broken spells... which includes 90% of the actual spells with the shadow subschool from the SRD. Most of what players actually want to do with shadow magic can't be done with this class. No shadow conjurations. No shadow evocations. No simulacrums. As far as I can tell, the only PHB shadow spell to survive was shadow walk. Anyone who knows D&D well and who explicitly wants to make a shadow mage literally isn't getting any of what they are after... because players in the know make shadow mages specifically for their insane versatility (instead of lesser-known tricks like "shadowy grappler").

    I would say that this is for newcomers who like the mental concept of a shadow mage but who aren't attached to specific shadow spells except... it doesn't do much in that category, either. Spells from the shadow subschool have always been incredibly rare and the high level ones have ALL been extremely powerful... which is why this shadow magic class has no spells of the shadow subschool above 6th level (unless I'm missing one).

    I'm not saying that this is a bad class. It is a pretty awesome class, all things considered. All that I'm saying is that making a fixed-list class for the (shadow) subschool ends up feeling about as empty as an attempt for the (calling) subschool would be. It's a good "literal dark magic" user but calling what it does shadow magic seems a bit disingenous.
    Last edited by Realms of Chaos; 2015-01-20 at 07:50 PM.
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    Default Re: The Night Soul- Stealth and Shadow Magic (Fixed-list Caster Project) 3.5, PEACH

    A high-level immediate action spell that mimics Shadow Discorporation power of the Telflammar Shadowlord PrC seems in order to me.

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    Default Re: The Night Soul- Stealth and Shadow Magic (Fixed-list Caster Project) 3.5, PEACH

    Quote Originally Posted by Realms of Chaos View Post
    I'm not saying that this is a bad class. It is a pretty awesome class, all things considered. All that I'm saying is that making a fixed-list class for the (shadow) subschool ends up feeling about as empty as an attempt for the (calling) subschool would be. It's a good "literal dark magic" user but calling what it does shadow magic seems a bit disingenous.
    Ehh... shadow magic, dark magic... I did notice the lack of good shadow spells at higher levels, but... I think it came out pretty well, and the class features support the shadow theme, even if the spells kind of peter out. And it's certainly nice to have another "evil wizard" class to go along with the Dread Necro.

    STaRS (and STaRS Lite)
    A non-narrativeist, generic rules-light system, by me. Now officially released!

    Grod's Guide to Greatness
    A big book of player options for 5e, by me

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Grod's Law: You cannot and should not balance bad mechanics by making them annoying to use
    Giants and Graveyards: My collected 3.5 class fixes and more.

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