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2014-11-04, 07:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2013
List of ways to deny enemies X to AC / other defenses
I want to compile a list of all ways to deny an enemy their defenses, from simple AC bonuses to things like miss chances.
I'll write down things I know, hopefully others will provide more, and at the end we'll have a lovely little table of ways to make sure that attack hits.
DEX and Dodge bonus to AC
Feint
Have total concealment (e.g. invisibility, hidden)
Get surprise round
Win initiative
Enemy is Grappled by ally
Enemy is Balancing without 5 ranks in balance
Enemy is Climbing without Combat climbing
Enemy is Running without Run feat
Enemy fails swim check
Enemy is cowering
Sneaky Shot Master Thrower trick
Acrobatic Backstab skill trick
Blurstrike weapon special ability
Pierce Magical Protection feat (spell based bonus only)
Armor, Shield,Natural Armor bonus
Spot the Weak Point Skill trick
Deft Strike feat (standard action, armor and natural armor only)
Weak Spot Master Thrower trick
Sunder (shield only)
Disintegrate spell (armor and shield only, limitations)
Wraithstrike spell
Brilliant Energy weapon special ability (living opponent only, not Natural armor)
Pierce Magical Protection feat (spell based bonus only)
Deep Impact feat (psionic, melee only)
Fell Shot feat (psionic, ranged only)
Deflection bonus to AC
Pierce Magical Protection feat (spell based bonus only)
Bolts of Arcane Penetration (Dragon 330, p. 67)
Size bonus to AC
Enlarge Person spell (Humanoid only, Fort negates)
Other AC bonuses (e.g. Sacred, Profane, Insight, etc.)
Chaotic Mind feat (Insight bonuses from Psionic sources only)
Pierce Magical Protection feat (spell based bonus only)
Cover
Improved Precise Shot (less than total)
Sharp Shooting Peerless Archer ability (reduces if less than total)
Bracers of Accuracy item (max 3/day)
Bloodseeking weapon special ability (projectile weapons only, no undead, constructs, plants or oozes)
Burrowing power (psionic, objects only)
Freedom of Movement (water only)
Freedom of Movement (psionic, water only)
Concealment
Improved Precise Shot feat
True seeing
True seeing (psionic)
Touchsight power (psionic)
Steadfast Percpetion power (psionic, glamers only)
Blindsight racial ability
Blind-fight feat (2 chances to overcome)
Scout's Headband item (grants true seeing or see invisibility 1/day 1 min)
Truelight Lantern item (true seeing effect 1/day 10 min)
Sharp Shooting Peerless Archer ability (reduces by 10%)
Pierce Magical Concealment feat (magic-sourced only)
Bracers of Accuracy item (max 1/day, not total)
Gust of Wind spell (Gas/Fog based only)
Uncanny Accuracy feat (total concealment only, Ranger 11 to qualify pre-epic)
Seeking weapon special ability
Other miss chances
Pierce Magical Concealment feat (magic-sourced only)
Force effect (Incorporeal only)
Ghost Touch weapon special ability (Incorporeal only)
Lesser Truedeath weapon crystal (Incorporeal only)
Serenwood weapon special material (Incorporeal only)
Transdimensional Spell feat (dimension-based concealment only, spells only)
Transdimensinoal Power feat (Psionic, dimension-based concealment only, spells only)
Damage Reduction
Force effects
Energy Damage
Shadow Striking weapon special ability (alignment and material based DR only)
Transmuting (on round following successful hit)
Hardness
Adamantine weapon special material (Hardness 20 or under)
Acid damage (RAW unclear, Dragon 314 says yes, FAQ from 2004 says yes, FAQ from 2008 says no)
Sonic damage (RAW unclear, Dragon 314 says yes, FAQ from 2004 says yes, FAQ from 2008 says no)
Force effects (RAW unclear, Dragon 314 says yes, FAQ from 2004 says yes, FAQ from 2008 says no)
Energy Resistance/Immunity
Waves of Cold spell (cold subtype creatures only)
Spell/Power Resistance
N/A
Regeneration
Trollbane poisonLast edited by Jowgen; 2014-12-09 at 05:32 PM.
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2014-11-04, 07:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2014
Re: List of ways to deny enemies X to AC / other defenses
Unless you'd rather stick to non-magical and/or character build-dependent solutions like feats, there are a few things I can think of to add:
Deflection Bonus to AC
Any spell of the Dispel Magic line, as most sources of deflection to AC are magical in nature
Size Bonus to AC
Polymorph target into something larger - not always a great choice for obvious reasons
Cover
Bracers of Accuracy (MIC 4,000gp) - uses charges/day to negate cover and/or concealment
Concealment
Bracers of Accuracy (MIC 4,000gp) - uses charges/day to negate cover and/or concealment
Gust of Wind - to dismiss many fog-related sources of concealmentIron Chef
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2014-11-04, 06:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2013
Re: List of ways to deny enemies X to AC / other defenses
Thanks for the contribution
Added the Bracers of Accuracy and Gust of Wind.
Dispel Magic wasn't added because it can conceivably be fit into every category, as magic can give you just about every type of bonus currently on the list.
Currently debating whether you add polymorph or not. It can work, but it's just such an impractical solution
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2014-11-04, 07:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2013
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Re: List of ways to deny enemies X to AC / other defenses
Sundering, not the same as with Dispel Magic, but you may deny Armor/Shield bonus to AC, and other items.
Acrobatic Backstab for DEX/Dodge?Check out which is the Playground's favorite Dragon!
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2014-11-04, 07:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2013
Re: List of ways to deny enemies X to AC / other defenses
chaotic mind negates insight bonuses that come from powers (to AC, skills and attacks)
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2014-11-04, 08:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2012
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2014-11-04, 08:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2011
Re: List of ways to deny enemies X to AC / other defenses
Touch attacks, like Wraith Strike. A similiar option would be Brilliant Energy Weapon. Flat Footed via the Blurstrike Weapon.
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2014-11-04, 08:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2014
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Re: List of ways to deny enemies X to AC / other defenses
Don't know if you'll want to count this, but utilizing touch attacks is an easy way to bypass a lot of contributing AC, depending on the enemy. Combining a surprise round or catching the enemy flat-footed with a touch attack is a feat-less, elegant way to potentially ignore a large portion of AC.
Last edited by Denver; 2014-11-04 at 08:56 PM.
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2014-11-05, 11:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2013
Re: List of ways to deny enemies X to AC / other defenses
Added Acrobatic Backstab and Sundering of Shields (can't sunder armor to my knowledge).
chaotic mind negates insight bonuses that come from powers (to AC, skills and attacks)
Maiming strike is a good way to reduce some of those few that have cha to ac. Thos does however assume you have sneak attack and hit the first time.
Touch attacks, like Wraith Strike. A similiar option would be Brilliant Energy Weapon. Flat Footed via the Blurstrike Weapon.
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2014-11-05, 11:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2011
Re: List of ways to deny enemies X to AC / other defenses
You might want to make a note that invisibility covers the total concealment.
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2014-11-05, 12:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2012
Re: List of ways to deny enemies X to AC / other defenses
Requires 11 levels in Ranger to qualify pre-epic, but:
Uncanny Accuracy
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2014-11-05, 12:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2006
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- Sunnydale
Re: List of ways to deny enemies X to AC / other defenses
Size Bonus to AC
Use Enlarge Person offensively. If you do it indoors with ordinary height ceilings or in other confined spaces, you'll also subject them to squeezing rules.
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2014-11-06, 06:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2013
Re: List of ways to deny enemies X to AC / other defenses
You might want to make a note that invisibility covers the total concealment.
Requires 11 levels in Ranger to qualify pre-epic, but: Uncanny Accuracy
Use Enlarge Person offensively. If you do it indoors with ordinary height ceilings or in other confined spaces, you'll also subject them to squeezing rules.
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2014-11-06, 07:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2011
Re: List of ways to deny enemies X to AC / other defenses
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2014-11-06, 09:10 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2014
Re: List of ways to deny enemies X to AC / other defenses
I'm not sure how exactly you'd categorize this one, but a Rod of Magical Precision (Complete Mage, 12,000gp) provides the benefit of the Precise Shot feat for spells and spell-like abilities (negating the penalty to attack is similar to negating AC)
Iron Chef
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2014-11-06, 09:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2014
Re: List of ways to deny enemies X to AC / other defenses
I would recommend the scouts headband (3200gp MIC), to ignore certain magical forms of concealment. This comes from spells such as, but not limited to, blur and displacement.
Edit: I think I should rephrase this: You need to be able to ignore the illusion line of spells that make it really hard to hit people, such as: Mirror image, discplacement, invisibility et cetera. True seeing does the trick for this and that can be bought via the scouts headband.
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2014-11-06, 10:14 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2014
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Re: List of ways to deny enemies X to AC / other defenses
I've got two spells that can work against AC.
The first is a fairly basic level 2 spell, called curse of impending blades. It's just a -2 modifier to AC. What I find interesting about the spell, however, is that it's described as causing the person hit by the spell to involuntarily move towards attacks. This sounds like it might be a reduction of deflextion AC based on its fluff.
The second spell is called chill touch, a level 4 necromancy spell. It's a touch attack (obviously), and deals 3d6 of dex damage (dexterity can't fall below one), effectively nuking their AC. This can easily cause it's victim to have a negative dex modifier.
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2014-11-06, 10:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2010
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Re: List of ways to deny enemies X to AC / other defenses
*pops in with psionic contributions*
Armor, Shield,Natural Armor bonus
Deep Impact: Psionic feat, convert any melee attack to touch attack.
Fell Shot: Psionic feat, convert any ranged attack to touch attack.
Concealment
Steadfast Perception: (figments and glamers only - note that invisibility, blur and displacement are glamers.)
Psionic True Seeing: works like the regular kind
Touchsight: ignore all concealment and darkness.
Cover:
Burrowing Power: Ignore intervening barriers (and therefore total cover) with your powers.
Other Cover:
(Psionic) Freedom of Movement: Landbound melee attacks ignore cover bonuses (both improved and total) when attacking underwater foes. Underwater attackers do not take penalties to hit.
Other Miss Chances:
Force effects: ignore incorporeal miss chance
Transdimensional Spell/Power: Ignore incorporeal miss chance
Also, you should probably add DR and Hardness here as these defenses can prevent a lot of damage over time (this is one of the main hurdles vs. archery in 3.5.) Hardness in particular can be nasty to overcome, and while it is rare on creatures it does exist.
Consider adding energy resistance as well; there are universal ways to bypass it e.g. Sanctified Spell and Searing Spell.Plague Doctor by Crimmy
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2014-11-06, 11:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2014
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Re: List of ways to deny enemies X to AC / other defenses
There's also the feat, Deft Strike from CAd and DM which works almost exactly like the Spot the Weak Point.
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2014-11-06, 11:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: List of ways to deny enemies X to AC / other defenses
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2014-11-06, 12:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2012
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2014-11-06, 01:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2011
Re: List of ways to deny enemies X to AC / other defenses
That's irrelevant, because their feat slots may not be used in this manner. The prerequisites are listed, and you are ignoring them, you're just not level 21 and you just don't have the bonus epic feats from 20 levels in ranger.
It's also overlooked because it's a +1 enhancement. So even if you were to take it, it's a waste of a slot and potentially 11 class levels.Last edited by Snowbluff; 2014-11-06 at 01:58 PM.
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2014-11-06, 05:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: List of ways to deny enemies X to AC / other defenses
If they meant to require you to be epic they would have made it require 21 levels of Ranger, not just 11. Keep in mind, multiclassing was not a terribly well promoted thing before high level optimization came into play, and often people will still single class their entire career.
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2014-11-06, 05:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2011
Re: List of ways to deny enemies X to AC / other defenses
If they meant for us to know that, they should have written that down. Mulitclass rules were a thing. They were never necessarily encouraged, but became the meta regardless of what they thought. There are plenty of feats in the list whose prerequisites can be met well before level 11.
Oh, and unsupported intent isn't evidence. I can look at the same material and say that they never intended for it to be taken pre-epic, but that wouldn't change the facts.Avatar of Rudisplork Avatar of PC-dom and Slayer of the Internet. Extended sig
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2014-11-06, 07:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: List of ways to deny enemies X to AC / other defenses
I suppose our disagreement stems from what the [Epic] category entails. To you it would appear to be a feat slot obtained at epic levels, but to me it means a bunch of feats with the requirement of Level 21. This would make the epic portion be a requirement that is ignored, as a level 11 ranger is ignoring all the requirements of the feat. I suppose we shall have to agree to disagree. No?
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2014-11-06, 07:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2011
Re: List of ways to deny enemies X to AC / other defenses
I don't consider it a requirement per se (it specifies the prerequisites anyway); taking an epic feat with a regular slot is like fitting a square peg into a round hole. It being level 21 is a coincidence from a mechanical standpoint.
I also think you just shouldn't do it. Buy a seeking bow. You can afford one by level 11. Everything I have to say on the matter is really pointless whether I am right or wrong.Last edited by Snowbluff; 2014-11-06 at 07:51 PM.
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2014-11-07, 07:10 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: List of ways to deny enemies X to AC / other defenses
Spoiler: Off TopicBut that is exactly what a player can do.
Originally Posted by d20srd
Uncanny Accuracy's special condition explicitly allows you to ignore any prerequisites.
Originally Posted by d20srd
Irrelevant. OP was looking for all ways.
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2014-11-07, 07:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: List of ways to deny enemies X to AC / other defenses
Need an Custom Order of the Stick Avatar? How about a Custom Standee for Offline Play? Feel free to hit me up, and we can see how we do.
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2014-11-07, 08:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: List of ways to deny enemies X to AC / other defenses
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2014-11-07, 09:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: List of ways to deny enemies X to AC / other defenses
Added some contributions (amended Uncanny Accuracy as a "may or may not"), some things I remembered, and several new categories of defences following Psyren's suggestion.
I'd like to thank all participants at this point