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    Default Orcish Mauler, a racial archetype for Path of War

    I absolutely loved Sayt's dwarf archetype for Warders, so I decided to try making an evil counterpart to the Clanhold Warden. I present to you the Orcish Mauler!'

    Orcish Mauler (Orc, Warder)

    Weapon and Armor Proficiency: An Orcish Mauler is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, light armor, and shields.

    Disciplines: An Orcish Mauler loses Golden Lion Discipline. Loses Diplomacy as a Class Skill.

    Maneuvers: Orcish Maulers are siege breakers and raiders who rely on physical ability over mental prowess. Because of this, an Orcish Mauler’s initiation modifier is Constiution, not Intelligence. As such their maneuver recovery is also keyed off of Constitution and not Intelligence.

    Scarred Aegis: This ability improves the Aegis class feature. The Orcish Mauler adds his Constitution bonus as a natural armor bonus to his AC when wearing light or no armor.

    Armiger’s Mark: This ability is unchanged, except that Constitution is used instead of Intelligence to determine the duration, number of maintainable marks, marks per day, and the save DC of the Grand Challenge.

    Orcish Weapon Training: At 3rd level, the Orcish Mauler chooses one of the following weapons. Each of the weapons has an associated martial discipline. If the Orcish Mauler does not have access to that discipline, they gain access to that discipline, and that discipline’s associated skill becomes a class skill for the Orcish Mauler. If the Orcish Mauler already has access to that school, they instead increase the +2 competence bonus to DCs when using favored weapons for that school to a +4 competence bonus. Furthermore, the Orcish Mauler considers the chosen weapon to be an associated weapon with the school it would grant. This ability replaces the bonus feat gained at 3rd level, but no others.

    Orc Double Axe: A whirlwind of lethal steel is used to break through enemy lines. The associated school of the Orc Double Axe is Thrashing Dragon. Gains access to Two-Weapon fighting even if prereqs are not met. Off-hand attack damage rolls are made at full Strength modifier.

    Greataxe or Falchion: Users of heavy, two handed weapons are particularly savage and view their fury as their shield. Orc blood gods reward this behavior with dark prowess. The associated school of Greataxes and Falchions is Black Seraph. When wielding a non-reach two-handed weapon, the Orcish Mauler increases his reach by five feet for use with attacks of opportunity and counters.

    Terbutje: These brutal, uncomplicated weapons belie the power and finesse an orc can apply to his strikes. The associated school of the Terbutje is Scarlet Throne. When wielding a terbutje in his main hand, he treats it as if wielding it in two hands.

    Athleticism: The Orcish Mauler substitutes animal cunning for book-learning and brute physicality for quick thinking, gaining his Constitution bonus to his reflex saves and initiative in place of their Dexterity modifier (Using the higher of the two bonuses). This ability replaces Tactical Acumen.

    Favored Enemy: At 6th level, an Orcish Mauler selects a creature type from the Ranger favored enemies table. He gains a +2 bonus on Bluff, Knowledge, Perception, Sense Motive, and Survival checks against creatures of his selected type. Likewise, he gets a +2 bonus on weapon attack and damage rolls against them. An Orcish Mauler may make Knowledge skill checks untrained when attempting to identify these creatures.
    At 12th level and again at 18th level, the Orcish Mauler may select an additional favored enemy. In addition, at each such interval, the bonus against any one favored enemy (including the one just selected, if so desired) increases by +2.
    If the Orcish Mauler chooses humanoids or outsiders as a favored enemy, he must also choose an associated subtype, as indicated on the table. (Note that there are other types of humanoid to choose from—those called out specifically on the table below are merely the most common.) If a specific creature falls into more than one category of favored enemy, the Orcish Mauler's bonuses do not stack; he simply uses whichever bonus is higher. This ability replaces Clad in Steel and Steel Defense.

    Siege Breaker: Orcish Maulers are the elite raiders and shock troops of their tribe. More than any other orcs, they exemplify the brutal savagery and cunning of their race. A lifetime of battle has taught them techniques for dealing with the most powerful of their many foes. At 6th level, if the Orcish Mauler has any of the following selected as favored enemies, he gains the associated benefit:

    Humans- Enemies gain no benefit from flanking the Orcish Mauler

    Elves- The Orcish Mauler doubles his Shield AC bonus (Including magic enhancement) vs. Missile attacks

    Dwarves- Counts as one size larger for Combat Maneuvers, if beneficial.

    Dragons- The Orcish Mauler gains evasion while wielding a shield. If he already has evasion, he instead gains improved evasion.

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    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Orcish Mauler, a racial archetype for Path of War

    Hm. Constitution-based Warder = übertank. I like.

    As an aside, this should be in the homebrew subforum.
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    Default Re: Orcish Mauler, a racial archetype for Path of War

    Whoops! Thanks for the heads up! Anyway, the only reason I tied all the class features to Con is because Orcs have a penalty to every single mental stat in Pathfinder. I'm hoping it doesn't unbalance the class too much. How do you think it stacks up against other archetypes/base Warder? Do you think I'm being too generous with my replacements. This is the first time I've ever homebrewed anything before, so I'm open to suggestions/critiques.

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    Default Re: Orcish Mauler, a racial archetype for Path of War

    Did you read my mind when you made this archetype? Because it's perfect for my ice age setting, even the terbutje is spot on as it's an orcish weapon in my setting!

    I am using the **** out of this archetype!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
    Are you some sort of Wizard?
    This is Æl-Ceald, an ice-age fantasy campaign setting. Updated!

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    Default Re: Orcish Mauler, a racial archetype for Path of War

    Quote Originally Posted by EisenKreutzer View Post
    Did you read my mind when you made this archetype? Because it's perfect for my ice age setting, even the terbutje is spot on as it's an orcish weapon in my setting!

    I am using the **** out of this archetype!
    Actually, I just came across your setting the other day. I think it's great, and your incorporation of the terbutje as an orcish weapon definitely helped me decide to include it in this archetype. A wooden club with sharp bits of rock is VERY orcish. I'm hoping I can convince my DM to run a game in your setting sometime. I do wish there were some sympathetic orcs in the setting, though. They are one of my favorite fantasy races.

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    Default Re: Orcish Mauler, a racial archetype for Path of War

    This is Sayt's dwarf archetype. http://dreamscarredpress.com/dragonf...ic/t=3637.html

    It might be applicable to your setting as well! I think it's very well done.

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    Default Re: Orcish Mauler, a racial archetype for Path of War

    Quote Originally Posted by RedOndjage View Post
    Actually, I just came across your setting the other day. I think it's great, and your incorporation of the terbutje as an orcish weapon definitely helped me decide to include it in this archetype. A wooden club with sharp bits of rock is VERY orcish. I'm hoping I can convince my DM to run a game in your setting sometime. I do wish there were some sympathetic orcs in the setting, though. They are one of my favorite fantasy races.
    Wow, thanks! If you do convince your GM to run a game in Æl-Ceald, please let me know how it goes! It's incredibly cool to know my writings inspire people.

    Also, good (or atleast neutral) orkaz are possible. An orkaz could be orphaned and adopted by human parents, for example. He or she would be a very tortured soul, forever struggling to contain the emptiness and pain in their soul. A very compelling character concept, actually. Perhaps the ways of the druids could soothe the pain.
    Last edited by EisenKreutzer; 2014-11-05 at 01:13 AM.
    Fairy tales do not tell children the dragons exist. Children already know that dragons exist. Fairy tales tell children the dragons can be killed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
    Are you some sort of Wizard?
    This is Æl-Ceald, an ice-age fantasy campaign setting. Updated!

    Avatar by gurgleflep!

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    Default Re: Orcish Mauler, a racial archetype for Path of War

    Yeah this thread belongs into the home brew forum.

    I do think it is a nice archetype if somewhat to strong. Constitution is strictly better than intelligence and to balance that factor I'd replace some class features with less powerful ones.

    Athleticism for example makes absolutely no sense. Nothing constitution does can increase your reflex or initiative. Literally nothing. Cancel this and replace it with something weaker.

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    Default Re: Orcish Mauler, a racial archetype for Path of War

    Quote Originally Posted by Feint's End View Post
    Yeah this thread belongs into the home brew forum.

    I do think it is a nice archetype if somewhat to strong. Constitution is strictly better than intelligence and to balance that factor I'd replace some class features with less powerful ones.

    Athleticism for example makes absolutely no sense. Nothing constitution does can increase your reflex or initiative. Literally nothing. Cancel this and replace it with something weaker.
    I reported this thread for relocation. Thanks for the heads up!

    As for your critique of the archetype, I agree that constitution is stronger than intelligence for a front line fighter, but then what would be a good compromise? This archetype is for orcs, who suffer a penalty to all mental stats, so it's really hard to key all their class abilities off of a nonphysical stat. The Scarred Witch Doctor archetype is for orcs and also keys powerful abilities off of Con. Maybe key it off dex? That way the class wants high STR for their weapon training abilities, high DEX for their defensive and class abilities, and high CON for HP/saves? Or maybe introduce scaling bonuses that replace some of the constitution linked ones? Specifically Athleticism and Scarred Aegis?

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    Default Re: Orcish Mauler, a racial archetype for Path of War

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    Default Re: Orcish Mauler, a racial archetype for Path of War

    Quote Originally Posted by RedOndjage View Post
    Orcish Mauler (Orc, Warder)
    So one thing I've noticed from your comments is that you think that only orcs will be able to qualify for this archetype, which is untrue. Half-Orcs and other creatures with the Orc subtype will be able to qualify as well, and humans can take either a feat or a trait to qualify as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by RedOndjage View Post
    Weapon and Armor Proficiency: An Orcish Mauler is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, light armor, and shields.
    Standard Warders are not proficient with ranged weapons, but you gave them proficiency, any reason?
    You took away medium and heavy armor proficiency as well, is the intent to increase the mobility of the archetype? Because all this does is make them less durable.

    Quote Originally Posted by RedOndjage View Post
    Disciplines: An Orcish Mauler loses Golden Lion Discipline. Loses Diplomacy as a Class Skill.
    I can't say anything about this yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by RedOndjage View Post
    Maneuvers: Orcish Maulers are siege breakers and raiders who rely on physical ability over mental prowess. Because of this, an Orcish Mauler’s initiation modifier is Constiution, not Intelligence. As such their maneuver recovery is also keyed off of Constitution and not Intelligence.
    This is a big red flag to me. I understand why you think this fits, but the fact is that tying a learned skill (maneuver initiation) to a physical stat raises all kinds of problems. The big issue here is that you're tying everything to one stat, and chucking balance to the curb to do so.

    Quote Originally Posted by RedOndjage View Post
    Scarred Aegis: This ability improves the Aegis class feature. The Orcish Mauler adds his Constitution bonus as a natural armor bonus to his AC when wearing light or no armor.
    I see what you're trying to do here, what with removing heavier armor proficiencies, but if you actually read the Aegis class feature it has nothing to do with what you've written. The Aegis is a flat, scaling bonus applied to allies' (not the Warder's) AC and Will Saves. This would be better served as a separate ability instead of being part of the Aegis ability.

    Quote Originally Posted by RedOndjage View Post
    Armiger’s Mark: This ability is unchanged, except that Constitution is used instead of Intelligence to determine the duration, number of maintainable marks, marks per day, and the save DC of the Grand Challenge.
    Quote Originally Posted by RedOndjage View Post
    Orcish Weapon Training: At 3rd level, the Orcish Mauler chooses one of the following weapons. Each of the weapons has an associated martial discipline. If the Orcish Mauler does not have access to that discipline, they gain access to that discipline, and that discipline’s associated skill becomes a class skill for the Orcish Mauler. If the Orcish Mauler already has access to that school, they instead increase the +2 competence bonus to DCs when using favored weapons for that school to a +4 competence bonus. Furthermore, the Orcish Mauler considers the chosen weapon to be an associated weapon with the school it would grant. This ability replaces the bonus feat gained at 3rd level, but no others.

    Orc Double Axe: A whirlwind of lethal steel is used to break through enemy lines. The associated school of the Orc Double Axe is Thrashing Dragon. Gains access to Two-Weapon fighting even if prereqs are not met. Off-hand attack damage rolls are made at full Strength modifier.

    Greataxe or Falchion: Users of heavy, two handed weapons are particularly savage and view their fury as their shield. Orc blood gods reward this behavior with dark prowess. The associated school of Greataxes and Falchions is Black Seraph. When wielding a non-reach two-handed weapon, the Orcish Mauler increases his reach by five feet for use with attacks of opportunity and counters.

    Terbutje: These brutal, uncomplicated weapons belie the power and finesse an orc can apply to his strikes. The associated school of the Terbutje is Scarlet Throne. When wielding a terbutje in his main hand, he treats it as if wielding it in two hands.
    So this is where you replace Golden Lion. The big issue is that the Orcish Mauler doesn't gain this ability at level 1, which prevents him for taking maneuvers from these disciplines when he has the highest number of maneuvers to select from. By doing so, you've gimped his character needlessly and complicated the entire maneuver selection process.

    Our second issue is that the Falchion is not an associated weapon for Black Seraph. It is a discipline weapon for Scarlet Throne though, in addition to being an "Orc weapon." Yes, you say it counts anyway, but I get the distinct feeling this only occurred so you could fit the Terbutje into the archetype.

    Speaking of the Terbutje, brutal and uncomplicated is A) not true about them at all and B) Not the qualities of a Scarlet Throne weapon. Scarlet Throne weapons are elegant and dignified, the school's origins come from nobility and dueling, things not at all associated with Orcs or Terbutjes. You've also managed to shoot yourself in the foot with the wording of your special ability for the Terbutje. By having it count as being wielded in two hands, you prevent it from working with Shields, Scarlet Einhander Stance, and several other abilities that require a one handed weapon. What you wanted was something like "When wielding a terbutje in his main hand, he adds 1.5x his strength modifier to his damage rolls instead of 1x and the weapon counts as being wielded in two hands for determining power attack's damage bonus."

    Quote Originally Posted by RedOndjage View Post
    Athleticism: The Orcish Mauler substitutes animal cunning for book-learning and brute physicality for quick thinking, gaining his Constitution bonus to his reflex saves and initiative in place of their Dexterity modifier (Using the higher of the two bonuses). This ability replaces Tactical Acumen.
    Your fluff here doesn't match your crunch. Constitution in no way affects animal cunning (WIS) or brute physicality (STR).

    Quote Originally Posted by RedOndjage View Post
    Favored Enemy: At 6th level, an Orcish Mauler selects a creature type from the Ranger favored enemies table. He gains a +2 bonus on Bluff, Knowledge, Perception, Sense Motive, and Survival checks against creatures of his selected type. Likewise, he gets a +2 bonus on weapon attack and damage rolls against them. An Orcish Mauler may make Knowledge skill checks untrained when attempting to identify these creatures.
    At 12th level and again at 18th level, the Orcish Mauler may select an additional favored enemy. In addition, at each such interval, the bonus against any one favored enemy (including the one just selected, if so desired) increases by +2.
    If the Orcish Mauler chooses humanoids or outsiders as a favored enemy, he must also choose an associated subtype, as indicated on the table. (Note that there are other types of humanoid to choose from—those called out specifically on the table below are merely the most common.) If a specific creature falls into more than one category of favored enemy, the Orcish Mauler's bonuses do not stack; he simply uses whichever bonus is higher. This ability replaces Clad in Steel and Steel Defense.
    Favored Enemy Sucks.

    Quote Originally Posted by RedOndjage View Post
    Siege Breaker: Orcish Maulers are the elite raiders and shock troops of their tribe. More than any other orcs, they exemplify the brutal savagery and cunning of their race. A lifetime of battle has taught them techniques for dealing with the most powerful of their many foes. At 6th level, if the Orcish Mauler has any of the following selected as favored enemies, he gains the associated benefit:

    Humans- Enemies gain no benefit from flanking the Orcish Mauler

    Elves- The Orcish Mauler doubles his Shield AC bonus (Including magic enhancement) vs. Missile attacks

    Dwarves- Counts as one size larger for Combat Maneuvers, if beneficial.

    Dragons- The Orcish Mauler gains evasion while wielding a shield. If he already has evasion, he instead gains improved evasion.
    Does this only apply at 6th level or at each level he selects a new favored enemy? Either way, Dwarf and Elf bonuses suck, Human should be changed to Uncanny Dodge, and Dragons bonus is the only instance of a benefit for having a shield in the entire archetype.

    Aside from the above breakdown, you also neglected to change Defensive Focus to key off Constitution, meaning that the Orcish Mauler still gains Combat Reflexes at 1st level keyed off of INT.

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