Wild Shape Fixes - Because It's OP

[JamesIntrocaso]

Hey all. I've found Wild Shape to be insanely good. Too good. Not sure if anyone else is having that experience, but I came up with some variant rules. Take a peak and let me know which you think is best or if you think I'm wrong!

http://worldbuilderblog.me/2014/11/06/born-to-be-wild/

[Amnoriath]

Hey all. I've found Wild Shape to be insanely good. Too good. Not sure if anyone else is having that experience, but I came up with some variant rules. Take a peak and let me know which you think is best or if you think I'm wrong!

http://worldbuilderblog.me/2014/11/06/born-to-be-wild/

The only thing that would make sense is HP carry over, let it abide by a rule of other similar spells. Also I think letting them choose their own Health or the creature's helps keep low CR's viable in higher level, either way they need to heal them back before reverting if they choose better one and then get hammered. Any Healing rule of a low level CR critter is effective healing. The retention of the same AC and HP regardless simply doesn't make as much sense flavor

[JamesIntrocaso]

The only thing that would make sense is HP carry over, let it abide by a rule of other similar spells. Also I think letting them choose their own Health or the creature's helps keep low CR's viable in higher level, either way they need to heal them back before reverting if they choose better one and then get hammered. Any Healing rule of a low level CR critter is effective healing. The retention of the same AC and HP regardless simply doesn't make as much sense flavor

I feel like you might have gotten cut off here, but I think the other ones make sense. To me retaining your AC makes just as much sense as it does that you would heal when you assume a new shape (or the fact that that's even possible). It's good to have the feedback!

Other spells, like Shape Change, work similarly to Wild Shape, but require concentration, which I think is also a good option.

[Amnoriath]

I feel like you might have gotten cut off here, but I think the other ones make sense. To me retaining your AC makes just as much sense as it does that you would heal when you assume a new shape (or the fact that that's even possible). It's good to have the feedback!

Other spells, like Shape Change, work similarly to Wild Shape, but require concentration, which I think is also a good option.

1. Just because it is possible doesn't mean it makes sense. If you have the hide of a triceratops why would you still effectively act like you are in your humanoid form naked?
2. No, then it makes the ability worse in every way than those spells. In fact Shapechange actually allows you to use anything your previous body had as well as cast spells 1 level earlier. Also let us not forget the borked CR numbers of those spells. At most they should have only been half your level.

[JamesIntrocaso]

1. Just because it is possible doesn't mean it makes sense. If you have the hide of a triceratops why would you still effectively act like you in your human form naked?
2. No, then it makes the ability worse in every way than those spells. In fact Shapechange actually allows to use anything your previous body had as well as cast spells 1 level earlier. Also let us not forget the borked CR numbers of those spells. At most they should have only been half your level.

Cool. Thank you for your feedback. For number one, I think bringing over AC can make sense. It's an ability related to magic and shapechanging. Maybe your hide isn't as thick as a real triceratops when you shape change and thicker than it would be if you were a bear. That's just how the magic works, ya know?

For number two, I'm not sure it makes the ability worse in every way. You can use it multiple times and recharge with a short rest. That's better than a spell right there.

It is a tough nut to crack for sure. I'm glad you like the carrying over damage idea.

[Amnoriath]

Cool. Thank you for your feedback. For number one, I think bringing over AC can make sense. It's an ability related to magic and shapechanging. Maybe your hide isn't as thick as a real triceratops when you shape change and thicker than it would be if you were a bear. That's just how the magic works, ya know?

For number two, I'm not sure it makes the ability worse in every way. You can use it multiple times and recharge with a short rest. That's better than a spell right there.

It is a tough nut to crack for sure. I'm glad you like the carrying over damage idea.

1. The distinction and reason is arbitrary as it relies off the possibility rather than a concrete reason such as a spell is restricted to certain type of creature..etc.
2. I only clarified Shapechange because you mentioned it but the best equivalent is Polymorph in which can be used 3 times a day or more if you are a Sorcerer. The CR numbers still are the same as Shapechange so they get things far more quickly and more than the Circle of the Moon.
Sorry, if I sound adversarial but I am just trying to defend my reasoning.

[JamesIntrocaso]

1. The distinction and reason is arbitrary as it relies off the possibility rather than a concrete reason such as a spell is restricted to certain type of creature..etc.
2. I only clarified Shapechange because you mentioned it but the best equivalent is Polymorph in which can be used 3 times a day or more if you are a Sorcerer. The CR numbers still are the same as Shapechange so they get things far more quickly and more than the Circle of the Moon.
Sorry, if I sound adversarial but I am just trying to defend my reasoning.

No, no! I like this discussion. It's certainly a tough nut to crack. Do you think Wild Shape should JUST have damage carry over then or would you leave it as is? Seems to be a divisive issue on Facebook and Twitter as well!

[Amnoriath]

No, no! I like this discussion. It's certainly a tough nut to crack. Do you think Wild Shape should JUST have damage carry over then or would you leave it as is? Seems to be a divisive issue on Facebook and Twitter as well!

It is the simplest, personally I would allow them to choose between the two hit point scores as this still makes lower CR choices still viable and as I said before if they choose the higher one while getting hammered they have to use more Wild Shape to stay alive. I wouldn't mind just the carry over though as it employs a bit of strategy in that if you have the lower health you revert back while still conscious and everything.

[DiBastet]

I prefer gaining half the creature HP as temporary HP. Works fine for me.

[JamesIntrocaso]

I prefer gaining half the creature HP as temporary HP. Works fine for me.

That's a good idea too!

[Malifice]

What I'm doing:

• A Druid in Wild shape retains the mental ability scores (Cha, Wis and Int), proficiencies, class features, Hit Dice and hit points of his normal form. The Druid gains the physical ability scores (Str, Dex, Con), size, AC, proficiencies, attacks, movement modes, speed, senses and special abilities of the wild shaped form.
• Druids gain a pool of temporary HP equal to (Druid level x 2) whenever they assume a Wild shape from their natural form.
• At 2nd level, a Moon Druid in Wild shape may calculate his AC by adding his proficiency bonus to the base forms AC.
• A Druid in Wild shape cannot use Multi attack if the form has the ability to do so. When a Druid in such a form takes the attack action, he may only use one of the listed attacks under Multi attack unless he also has the extra attack class feature. A character with at least 5 levels in Druid ignores this restriction, and can freely use multi attack if the beast he wild shapes into has the multi attack ability.
• A Druid may use either his own proficiency bonus or the beasts proficiency bonus (whichever is higher) for any melee or ranged attack, skill or save that either the Druid or the beast are proficient in. The Druid retains his own proficiencies (however some may be unusable in his new form) and gains the creatures proficiencies in its listed skills, saves and with its natural attacks. If the new form has abilities that require a saving throw to resist, the Druid may substitute his own Spell attack DC for the DC of the special attack.

[JamesIntrocaso]

What I'm doing:

• A Druid in Wild shape retains the mental ability scores (Cha, Wis and Int), proficiencies, class features, Hit Dice and hit points of his normal form. The Druid gains the physical ability scores (Str, Dex, Con), size, AC, proficiencies, attacks, movement modes, speed, senses and special abilities of the wild shaped form.
• Druids gain a pool of temporary HP equal to (Druid level x 2) whenever they assume a Wild shape from their natural form.
• At 2nd level, a Moon Druid in Wild shape may calculate his AC by adding his proficiency bonus to the base forms AC.
• A Druid in Wild shape cannot use Multi attack if the form has the ability to do so. When a Druid in such a form takes the attack action, he may only use one of the listed attacks under Multi attack unless he also has the extra attack class feature. A character with at least 5 levels in Druid ignores this restriction, and can freely use multi attack if the beast he wild shapes into has the multi attack ability.
• A Druid may use either his own proficiency bonus or the beasts proficiency bonus (whichever is higher) for any melee or ranged attack, skill or save that either the Druid or the beast are proficient in. The Druid retains his own proficiencies (however some may be unusable in his new form) and gains the creatures proficiencies in its listed skills, saves and with its natural attacks. If the new form has abilities that require a saving throw to resist, the Druid may substitute his own Spell attack DC for the DC of the special attack.

Not a bad idea. Now that they put out the survey, I wonder if they'll change things or put out other options.

[supergoji18]

How come no one has just proposed getting rid of the unlimited wild shapes? Limit it to 4 or 6.

[JamesIntrocaso]

How come no one has just proposed getting rid of the unlimited wild shapes? Limit it to 4 or 6.

Limit what specifically? The number of shapes or the number of times per short rest it can happen? Right now 2 is a lot at lower levels.

[supergoji18]

Limit what specifically? The number of shapes or the number of times per short rest it can happen? Right now 2 is a lot at lower levels.

The number of uses, at 20th level specifically.

[JamesIntrocaso]

The number of uses, at 20th level specifically.

That definitely makes sense at 20th level, but Wild Shape is a big problem before that for many groups.

[supergoji18]

That definitely makes sense at 20th level, but Wild Shape is a big problem before that for many groups.

In that case, I like the temporary hp option

[Markoff Chainey]

Hi there!

Interesting blog! I am a bit confused that so many ppl do not regard wildshape as OP..

I came up with a different variant - it is very similiar to your "bloodied" variant but working with percentages.

The druid notes down 3 values: 25% of his hp, 50%, 75% (in order to make calculations afterwards easier)

Examples:
- When she shapes to beastform and loses more than 25% of hp of the beast's hp (but no more than 50%), she will lose 25% of her druid's hp and should she shape again, the new form will also have 25% less hp.

- When she shapes to beastform and loses more than 75% of hp of the beast's hp (but still has some left), she will lose 75% of her hp... should she then transform into a new form, that new form will have only 25% of its original hp.

- Should she lose all hp while in beastform, she will lose conciousness, revert back and find herself with 0 hp...


So it basically adjusts hp according to the percentage lost, but is working in 25% steps to make calculations easier and smooth. I do prefer the "damage carries over" variants, but the problem is that some beasts are made to take a lot of beating due to their low AC and many hp, while other are great for utility... with the damage overflow variants, you could kill yourself by just taking a bit of damage as a bear and then transform into a bat or something.

Let me know what you think! (the problem is that the % calculations are still necessary and our druid hates that)