XP and animal companions

[Draak_Grafula]

If the players defeat an evil druid and her animal companion. Would you award XP for defeating the animal or is it part of the druid so to speak.
How about (palladin) mounts? Familiars?
I know summoned monsters dont count as "chunks of XP" but I'm not sure about these.
If you dont award XP for these, where would you draw the line? You could easaly use some fighters and reckon them to be a NPCs feature since he has leadership or hired them with his own money.

thanks.

[Galathir]

I probably wouldn't give extra XP for a animal companion since it is a standard Druid class feature and thus already figured into their CR. The same would go for Paladin mounts and wizard familiars.

I would analyze NPC's with leadership case-by-case. I generally use more arbitrary and storyline XP awards than straight DMG awards, so it would all depend on the situation.

[Zherog]

Going strictly by the rules, any "tag-alongs" that come from a feat or class feature (cohort, followers, animal companions, fiendish servants, familiars, etc) are all part of the CR of the creature with the feat/class feature.

For an example of that right here on the website, take a peek at Riph Redstone and Amerelda. The whole group is CR 6.

Now, I admit that there are times the RAW sucks for the players. My personal rule of thumb: If the PCs encounter the "tag along" separately, I give them XP for it; if they encounter the tag along with the "main" creature, it gets folded in to the main creature's CR.

So, for a quick example. The PCs in my game have been chasing down a cleric of Scahrossar (see the Book of Vile Darkness). This cleric has the leadership feat. They're going to encounter her cohort at some point in the future, and it'll likely be away from the main cleric. I'll give them XP for defeating the cohort. However, when they finally have the grand face off against the cleric, she'll have chosen a new cohort and will also be surrounded by a bunch of her folllowers. None of these will grant XP at that time. However... I'm likely to issue an XP adjustment, because clearly the fight is going to be harder than the CR would indicate. I'll probably increase XP by around 50% or so - but a lot will depend on how I set things up at the time.

[Tellah]

I recommend giving out experience for cohorts and animal companions, simply because they do increase the challenge of the encounter considerably. By the RAW you needn't do so, but in my estimation druids and characters with the leadership feat are significantly more powerful than other challenges.

[okpokalypse]

I recommend giving out experience for cohorts and animal companions, simply because they do increase the challenge of the encounter considerably. By the RAW you needn't do so, but in my estimation druids and characters with the leadership feat are significantly more powerful than other challenges.

I agree to a degree. I give out 50% XP for all Cohort / Summoned / Companion targets defeated.

A L17 Conjurer / Master Abjurist w/ a Maximize Rod can drop 6 Greater Air Elementals in 1 Round. That's just mean to not give anyone trying to combat those some form of XP. If a Conjurer is going for the "overwhelm" card, in 2 rounds they can summon 10 Fiendish Girallons and 10 Huge Air Elementals. Not including the use of Celerity and stuff like that to get extra turns as well.

By giving out 50% the PCs facing it get decent XP, but not enough to warrant hanging around just killing the summoned creatures to gain scads of "easy" xp.

[Lolzords]

I use the rule. "If it requires effort, you get XP."

[Kantolin]

At the same time, someone who could summon a third level monster is about as likely to, say, fireball someone.

(Or slow or Hold person or stinking cloud or sommat).

You don't award experience for fireball, after all... awarding experience for a summon seems silly. Perhaps a boost would be merited if the enemy caster had been able to pre-prepare and had several summons waiting, but that's the same as if the enemy caster was prepared and the group walked into a quad of delayed blast fireballs just waiting for them. Preparation makes the fight far more difficult.

[AtomicKitKat]

At the same time, someone who could summon a third level monster is about as likely to, say, fireball someone.

(Or slow or Hold person or stinking cloud or sommat).

Irrelevant. You make one saving throw against a fireball. You make one saving throw against Slow to not suck(Far worse than direct damage, unless DD kills you in one hit, which pretty much never happens above about level 5). You have to save once a round to avoid being CdGable after Hold Person. You save once a round to avoid sucking in the stinking cloud(yay double entendre). You make dozens of rolls to kill the Elementals, who can easily take on one member each.

[Kantolin]

Uh.

The general fact that save-spells are superior to direct damage are why I then mentioned the three other spells; I just used fireball as a generic example.

And either way, you pseudo-missed my point. My point was that if a spellcaster has to use Summon Monster V, said spellcaster could just as easily have used dominate person on the party's fighter, or baleful polymorph on the wizard, or something threatening and nasty. This is far more threatening of an action than summoning anything... yet you don't get more experience for the enemy wizard casting dominate. As such, you shouldn't get more experience for a wizard summoning something, as that just another 5th level spell, and you shouldn't get experience for a spellcaster who is of the appropriate level simply using a 5th level spell.

So no, I don't think you should award special experience for summons.

Insofar as animal companions, familiars, and mounts... theoretically those come with the class. You don't get special points for a rogue using evasion or a monk moving faster than normal or a wizard casting spells, so you don't get special points for smacking down the Ranger's pet wolf.

[Quietus]

No experience reward for summons, but companions, familiars, and mounts... it depends. Familiars definately not, mounts probably not, but the companions can be notably useful. As noted above, if you encounter the companion away from its master, then yes, you get exp for it - if you encounter the companion with its master, no. In the case of a cohort, I think the 50% xp bonus is fair, because that's one feat that gives the person an extra full round worth of actions, as a character of slightly lower level.

[goat]

Is it really fair to have all their followers count in their CR, and so count only in their XP?

A completely cheesed Leadership build with a hundred odd followers be worth the same as a similar level guy without the leadership cheese? It wouldn't seem right to me.

[Mewtarthio]

Irrelevant. You make one saving throw against a fireball. You make one saving throw against Slow to not suck(Far worse than direct damage, unless DD kills you in one hit, which pretty much never happens above about level 5). You have to save once a round to avoid being CdGable after Hold Person. You save once a round to avoid sucking in the stinking cloud(yay double entendre). You make dozens of rolls to kill the Elementals, who can easily take on one member each.

So, Conjuration (summoning) and (calling) spells are superior to all other spells? Why take any other spell at all?

[Tallis]

I'd have to say no seperate xp for standard clawss features (companions, mounts, familiar, summoning spells), with the exception of encountering them seperately from the main enemy. Of course not having them would result in a lower CR when the enemy is encountered. That said, if you consider classes with these features more of a threat to the party, adjust the overall Cr appropriately.
As far as leadership goes, it is not a standard class feature and should not be counted as such. If a cohort is of a level to be worth xp to the party then they should get it.

[AtomicKitKat]

I wouldn't say Summons are superior to "any". Note that Save or Lose wins the game. Summons are more dangerous than Dominate though, in that your standard party is generally geared towards fighting Humanoids(which your party Fighter presumably is). Not forgetting that you can Dispel the Dominate, or place some other form of spell resistance on the Fighter. Summoned creatures can only be "dispelled" one at a time, or you have to spend valuable resources bringing them down one at a time. Plus, depending on the caster(DM's mean streak), you may be geared completely wrong for the creatures he summons. Fire? Too bad, Fire Elementals. Cone of Cold? Too bad, Winter Wolves. And so on. Doubly so if the caster had been using some spells to disguise his appearance(eg. You expect a White Dragon, but he uses Fire subtype summons). Sucks if you didn't use Divinations or used and failed. It's true that Summons probably shouldn't count towards the challenge, but at the same time, in raw power, they still top DD. Perhaps 1/4 XP. Or an ad hoc bonus if the party wisely works around the problem(example: Anti-magic shell in front of the Summons.) Class Features(except maybe Familiars) are definitely worth more. Witness how Belkar was so easily taken down by Windstrider. A Druid's Animal Companion(less so a Ranger's) can be fairly formidable, especially if taught to sneak around parties to bite the softer targets in the rear. An ex-Paladin Blackguard has 2 followers. The Cleric might be able to turn most of the Undead followers, but not the special Undead Companion. The Fiendish Servant could cause similar problems as a Mount. A Shadowdancer's Shadow is pretty badass too(Incorporeal, Strength Drain, etc. Can't be Turned either.). Such cases definitely should give a small boost in XP, if the accompanying parties proved to be capable of turning(or at least heavily prolonging) the fight.