Apple WW

[AvatarVecna]

Random thought for the sake of my curiosity who other than myself and Vwulf would consider themselves to be new to the playgrounds warewolf community, this is my first game here and I walked in not knowing anything about any of you, I'm just wondering who else is in the same boat, or a similar one?

This is my first game here on the forum, and it seems to be quite different from RL Werewolf. For starters, there's a lot more name-calling than is generally present in the ~30 minutes we'd have for each day phase IRL.

[Fleeing Coward]

I'm willing to give Vwulf the benefit of the doubt for now since he explained why he did what he did but I'd still like to hear who he thinks are most likely to be wolves at this point.

[COLOR="#FF0000"]AvatarVecna[/COLOR], since you're here, care to share your thoughts? I know you're active yet you're again playing the wait and see game.

[AvatarVecna]

Man, I don't even know. Ramsus' thing about PMs seems to live in Cuckoo Land, and while I still suspect you a bit, I'm starting to think you're being kept alive as bait for Ramsus and others paranoid about your rep. I still don't think Ramsus is a wolf, and Sprig seems too level-headed in their reasoning; if Sprig was a wolf, wouldn't they have spurred on the "Ramsus vs. FC" thing rather than try to stop it? Most of the other players haven't struck me as particularly suspicious, with a few barely notable exceptions. Here's my thoughts so far:

Penguinator started the Tanar wagon, and even gave a decent argument by pointing out how Tanar and Legato had posted together on a few occasions. Of course, Legato was killed off the night after Tanar was lynched, so it turned out that Penguinator's reasoning was completely wrong, despite it's decent premise. While I don't recall Penguinator being particularly active the day before, they came back witha vengeance day 2, and contributed quite a bit to the town's cause.

Furthermore, just a few posts after Penguinator started the Tanar bandwagon, ThePhantom joined it, with their only stated reason being "didn't want to vote for Ramsus or FC". While I'm fairly sure Penguinator isn't a wolf, if they are, that's just another mark against ThePhantom (who joined in without explanation soon after Penguinator fingered Tanar). Ultimately, my big problem with ThePhantom is how rarely they've posted: Sprig, Penguinator, Tanar, and Legato weren't even all that involved in the "Ramsus vs. FC" thing, and they still contributed in other ways. ThePhantom's been pretty quiet from the beginning (posting only twice, with both being vote posts), and his second vote was a single line that consisted of him jumping on the Tanar "bandwagon" for no stated reason other than not wanting to follow the crowd. If they're town, that's just useless, and they should be left alone while the rest of us track down the wolves. But if they're a wolf? Suddenly their silence makes sense.

I've been holding my vote hoping for something more solid than "they've been awful quiet" to come along, but if I was pressed for a vote, I'd vote ThePhantom until something more incriminating came up. The only other weird thing I saw was sphazre: they switched onto the Tanar bandwagon late in the day and didn't provide any reason until pressed for an explanation. Furthermore, before that, they were voting for Legato, who died in the night. It's not enough to vote for them (for me, anyway), but it's certainly enough to warrant keeping a closer eye on them.

[Fleeing Coward]

One more question before I head to bed and think it over:
Phantom is always this quiet, he does some RP but he's rarely involved in lynch discussion so what he has done this game is the norm for him.
Does this change you opinion on who we should lynch or do you still think we should lynch Phantom?

[AvatarVecna]

I suspected ThePhantom because he jumped on Tanar with no reason other than "not wanting to follow the crowd". His relative silence being normal for him just means that his silence isn't suspicious, but it still doesn't make the other points of the argument against him any less valid. For now, I'll leave my vote on ThePhantom, but I fully expect it to change if/when someone presents a good argument for someone else being the wolf.

If I had to vote for someone else, it would probably be you, but I figure that dead horse has been beaten enough. Instead, I'm gonna continue my parting thought: sphazre hasn't been quiet per se, but they're clearly active: they chime in every once in a while, usually with a fairly short post. They late-voted for Tanar, and their previous vote (Legato) died in the night. They're obviously watching the thread when they're online, but they don't comment nearly as often as you, me, Ramsus, and Sprig. It's not enough to warrant changing my vote, but I think it's enough to cast a Finger of Suspicion on them.

Then again, maybe I'm reading too much into it. What's your take on it?

[ThePhantom]

Its true, when there isn't much roleplaying I'm usually quiet. I'm not that good at figuring out wolves other than hunches, so I usually don't have the logic needed to debate for picking someone out.
Well, looking at the little I have, I'm going with Penguinator, for my vote today.

[Penguinator]

Spoiler

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Update:

Quick overview of today:
Votes:
FC - Ramsus, Vwulf DeMarcus, AvatarVecna, firedaemon33
Ramsus - FC, Aventine
Legato Endless - Sprig, Rain Dragon, sphazre
Tanar Aerdoth - Penguinator, ThePhantom

Players who have not posted today:
Legato Endless
braveheart

-Tanar Aerdoth has a Schrodinger's vote.

I believe Tanar's response was both amusing and appropriate. I will, however, leave my vote there for the time being.

First response: Read the second part of the quote. I wasn't sold on Tanar Aerdoth, and if you look at the voting tally at the time, it didn't seem imminently necessary to make a vote change. I've got a concert in a couple hours that I've been preparing for, so I wasn't able to get back on that day phase.

Voting for Penguinator, mostly because from yesterday it seems like he started the wagon on Tanar and Legato, who are both dead now.

I cannot stress this enough: Do your homework. You have not. At the time I voted for Tanar Aerdoth, there were three votes for Legato Endless. I also never voted for Legato Endless. Tell me how I managed to start the wagon on Legato Endless. For Tanar's wagon, yes, I got it rolling. My mistake.

Just a hunch. I'm mostly going on who Penguinator voted for, rather than any specific in-thread actions. Pressure is good with a record that bad.

Again, homework undone. My record is hardly "bad" compared to several others.

Take a look:

Day one:

Spoiler

Show

Duck voters:
Tanar Aerdoth
Legato Endless
Rain Dragon
Aventine
Other confirmed town:
AvatarVecna voted for Tanar. No votes for either Count Dingdong or Legato Endless.

Day 2:

Spoiler

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Legato Endless voters:
Sprig
Rain Dragon
sphazre
firedaemon33
Aventine
Vwulf DeMarcus
Tanar voters:
Penguinator
ThePhantom
Sprig
Fleeing Coward
Aventine
Rain Dragon
sphazre

*Italics indicate a second "offense." Italics and underlining indicates a third "offense."

More specifically, the overlap:

Voted Duck, Legato, and Tanar:
Aventine
Rain Dragon
Voted Legato and Tanar:
Sprig
sphazre

For more specifics on my personal voting record, my votes have been for Aventine and for Tanar Aerdoth. Both voted for Duck, and right now, Aventine is tied for single worst voting record. Purely from my record, I could be a vengeful mason who is less-than-subtle.

Now, for new business.

Current vote tally:
Vwulf DeMarcus: Sprig, Aventine
Penguinator: firedaemon33, ThePhantom
Fleeing Coward: Ramsus, Vwulf DeMarcus (hit two votes first)
no vote: braveheart
ThePhantom: AvatarVecna

I hope this is right; there have been a lot of vote changes today.

I agree with Sprig that Vwulf's non-vote was odd. At the same time, as he has mentioned, he is new to the forum. Others had done it, and I can see a new player seeing a trend and following.

I believe that AvatarVecna's point at ThePhantom is valid. This is standard behavior for ThePhantom, unfortunately, so there's not much to be gleaned from it.

Hopping off of the Vwulf non-vote is the Rain Dragon non-vote. This is a more experienced player than Vwulf, and the first in a string of unhelpful non-votes. As our late baner said, "voting is the town's weapon; use it." He also has a terrible voting record; not only did he vote for Duck999, Duck999 voted for him. He has had votes made against him every day, only to be passed over. Somebody wants him alive, and from the events of Day one we can assume it isn't because he's a mason.

[braveheart]

Penguinator has made an excellent point, and I think I'll join him voting for Rain Dragon

[Fleeing Coward]

My thoughts:
Ramsus: He doesn't seem to be faking his frustration from what I can tell so I have him as leaning town for now. If all that outrage was an act, well done.

Sprig: Active, makes a good point on Vwulf but from the short time I've known him, he's a crafty player who is not afraid to take risks so even though I think his actions have mostly been town, he's the type that you can never fully trust.

AvatarVecna: Active, feels like he's played quite abit of WW, tough read. I'm leaning towards slight wolf due to his wait and see approach but he has made a good argument so fornow I'm giving him a pass.

Aventine: Honestly he's relatively high on my wolf list even though he's one of my more active defenders. getting a slight PIS read from my side, hasn't really contributed that much information looking over his posts but not enough for me to push him yet.

Penguinator: His post above is one of the reasons I like to keep him around unless there's strong evidence he's a wolf. He can be a valuable asset for town, on of the better analysts on the forum. I'm trusting him for now.

Rain Dragon: Penguinator makes a good argument. Rain Dragon's death would give me more information on some of my other suspects so I believe he is the best lynch target for today especially considering they havn't said a thing today.

Vwulf: My second choice, giving him the benefit of the doubt for now since he appears to be new but his lack of a response when prodded about his thoughts on other potential targets after defending himself is a point against him.

Firedaemon33: Neutral read for now.

Phantom/Sphazre/braveheart: Havn't said much which always makes it difficult to read. If we have no better targets, they'd be who I'm after because they need to share their thoughts.

[Sprig]

Still torn on Vwulf. If it had just been one thing (the non vote) I would have let it slide. And we haven't heard anything more from him on his suspicions. I even explicitly gave him an easy way out. So its only with reluctance and a promise to revisit it that I'll switch off as well.

Aventine, Rain Dragon & sphazre have all caught my eye previously so I would support building further pressure on any of them.

EDIT: Well those votes came fast....

[Ionbound]

Fair enough. I do apologize for smearing you, Penguinator. And with the decent arguments for Rain Dragon made, it does seem like he's a better lynch. Again, I apologize. My bad.

[Sprig]

Actually, I'll hop off and Offer sphazre as a counter wagon option.

[AvatarVecna]

Well, that bandwagon formed quickly. And I can see why: Penguinator makes a pretty good case for lynching Rain Dragon.

@Fleeing Coward

Yeah, I've played some IRL Werewolf before, but it was purely vanilla WW, and it was several hours worth at GenCon. I'm not quite a hardened veteran, but I like to think I've grasped the basics of the game fairly well.

[Vwulf DeMarcus]

Vwulf: My second choice, giving him the benefit of the doubt for now since he appears to be new but his lack of a response when prodded about his thoughts on other potential targets after defending himself is a point against him.

Hi! Apologies. School takes up all my time. I check the forums a good once per day. Hasty response because I have other obligations tonight as well, but yeah, I'm also sort of getting a wolfish read from Aventine. Honestly I haven't played enough games to get "wolfish reads" so that's all I've got. I'm not exactly "new to the forum", it's just been a long time since I've played (and most of my experience is from Town of Salem, a different game entirely). I am going to agree with Penguinator and say that Rain Dragon should be lynched, though I'm a little scared he's mason. Just gut feelings, really, no evidence.

[Sprig]

And now I am all over the shop. Now that I looked at it, a counter wagon is pointless. 5 votes was all that was need to secure Rain Dragon's lynch since Ramsus said he won't be back, Vwulf said he is sticking to his vote and there is very little chance ThePhantom will make an appearance either. Last but not least, sphazre is not going to vote for himself.

This means any vote (including this one) after firedaemon33's vote is largely irrelevant.

[sphazre]

Butbutbut this is the most I've ever talked in a game ;_;

I'm mostly posting at work during breaks, so anything during the work day will be short. I'll try to contribute more when the weekend starts.

Rain Dragon for today.

[Rain Dragon]

I suddenly had to go to work yesterday and the wagon on me cropped up literally overnight.
I'm not surprised, but with the tally this way I have less than zero chance.

Good luck guys. >.>
I'd contribute some final analysis or something, but my motivation for doing so is also less than zero.

I'm also relatively new. I've played less than ten Werewolf games before, over half of which never finished.

Rain Dragon	8	Penguinator, Braveheart, Fleeing Coward, Firedaemon33, AvatarVecna, Vwulf DeMarcus, Sprig, Sphazre
Fleeing Coward	1	Ramsus
Vwulf DeMarcus	1	Aventine
Penguinator	1	ThePhantom

[Fleeing Coward]

Switching to Vwulf. The speed of that pile on means to me there's virtually 0 chance that Rain Dragon is a wolf.

[Rain Dragon]

I'll join you in voting for Vwulf DeMarcus just in case it makes a difference.

[Ramsus]

Ok guys, so since FC has decided not to leave me alone long enough to calm down and think things over (he's been PMing me) and Internet Flea has issued the following statement to me that I feel is totally unreasonable given it restricts my ability to play the game whether through bluff or strategic choice or choosing to believe whatever it is I believe...

Starting Night 3, any statement either of you make to or about the other will need to be approved by me beforehand.

I will just be making this statement now.

FC has been trying to convince me that he's the Seer and that Sprig has been in contact with him. I don't know how FC determined he's the Seer and not the Fool or if he's either of those or a wolf. I do know that he's refused to tell me the results of his scries and that even after he requested me to show him every post where I thought he said something rude, that he believes he hasn't behaved in an inappropriate way at all. I also know that not a single dang one of you has condemned his behavior even though if you checked the rules it'd be pretty obvious he's broken them constantly to attack me, even after I've repeatedly asked him to stop and did my best to avoid him.

So.... yeah, it's still Day 3 so IF's proclamation doesn't apply yet and I kinda don't care what effect this has on the game since you all were cool with FC making the game no fun at all for me and were supporting Sprig's attitude of ignoring me, ie not allowing me to play.

Unless IF kicks me out of the game, I'm not quitting at this time.

[Internet Flea]

Ramsus has been modkilled.

[Ramsus]

I would like you to explain exactly what for. I mean aside from "doing something I don't like that I never said couldn't be done and doesn't break any rules".

Not that I actually care so much about the outcome, I just think you and everyone else would benefit from actually examining what is and isn't appropriate behavior from a narrator.

[Internet Flea]

I would like you to explain exactly what for. I mean aside from "doing something I don't like that I never said couldn't be done and doesn't break any rules".

Not that I actually care so much about the outcome, I just think you and everyone else would benefit from actually examining what is and isn't appropriate behavior from a narrator.

You have made it abundantly clear you will make no effort to make the game less ugly. You are no longer welcome in it.

[Sprig]

Sigh...(10chr)

[Ramsus]

I have in fact made every effort to make the game less ugly. You also let FC make the game far uglier than I have and he has no remorse and yet you haven't kicked him out. You have just exposed your personal bias is the only reason for kicking me out of the game. That's entirely inappropriate.

[Internet Flea]

Haruki-kun has replaced Ramsus.

[Rain Dragon]

Is there still about three hours left in the day?

[Internet Flea]

Is there still about three hours left in the day?

Yes, unless people think there should be an extension.

[Rain Dragon]

Yes, unless people think there should be an extension.

Thank you.

[AvatarVecna]

Yes, unless people think there should be an extension.

If I may ask, what's usually considered a good enough reason for a time extension?