Apple WW

[Ramsus]

*Is annoyed FC didn't wait for his edit even though he went out of the way to state he was going to edit the post to respond* *sighs*

Ok so I'm only gonna respond to stuff that I didn't basically respond to in my last posts' edit.

Um what? So you're going to judge people here by the standards of groups that are....not here? That would be I guess maybe kinda sorta reasonable if it weren't like... doing so to go directly against the grain of how people play here. Also what, did you just call me irrational? Not even just irrational but like.... stupid and irrational. Dude. Also apparently paranoid and crazy as I'm in no danger of being lynched right now as far as I can tell and haven't said anything so far to say I was. (Although I a while ago predicted I might be at some point in the future and have expressed some surprised at not being so, but that's not at all the same.) The only people voting for me are you, with a clearly stated revenge vote backed up by reasons that make no sense under DC 2 Perception check scrutiny, and Aventine for.... no specific reason especially when his own logic states you're a much better target than I am. (Again, weeeeeeeeird.) So that's 2 votes on me with no good supporting logic of any kind. I've not the reason to behave defensively or in a panic at this point. Which just kind of makes your justification there more insulting. (Although I'm starting to feel like I'm insulting myself for even bothering to seriously respond to such rude & asinine things.)

[Aventine]

... and Aventine for.... no specific reason especially when his own logic states you're a much better target than I am.

Sorry, what? That is the complete and literal opposite of what my logic states. {scrubbed}

[Fleeing Coward]

OK so things I've said that don't relate to this game in particular for why I think you're a threat that doesn't stem from you screwing me over and my thinking that's not fun. (I guess we just add in that I don't think that's fun for anyone at all, not just me, and also not include that in my response?)
Well let's see, your tendency to throw ridiculous stuff around as if it's viable whether you're town or not is really anti-town and I've seen you do that in games other than this.

I do alot of ridiculous things but I've always believed what I've done to be in the best interest of whichever side I was on. Guess we've just got to agree to disagree on this.

Also it's not like you screw over just me. Your latest vendetta against me offered a no-win solution for an entire team who did nothing to earn the situation you were forcing on them/me and your unreasonable behavior certainly was no less aggravating for them than me. I also know I'm not the only person you've tricked into acting against their own interests or forced them into a no-win situation just because you refused to offer any kind of reasonable compromise (though maybe with other people you haven't done it to them repeatedly).

This stems from me screwing you over so like I said, there's bias here. You forced this situation from my point of view. You made it abundantly clear both via PM and in that other thread that your sole focus will be to get rid of me. The way you pushed day 1 made me believe that so I don't see any other way to respond.

You're also just pretty rude, see the way you've been speaking to firedaemon and myself as an example, but it happens in other games too. (And no I'm not going to go look that up. If you want to go look through every post you've made and fail to find more than a couple posts where you were unduly rude to people I'll apologize for my mistake though, as I'm certainly not saying my perception of past events is any better than anyone else's.)

That's just my play style. I'm can understand people often respond poorly and think I'm deliberately been rude but it's just how I get results. As I've said before in other games, don't take anything I say in game too seriously, I just find provocation to be one of the best ways to get people to open up and make mistakes that they otherwise wouldn't when they're calm.

Also, an this is a super minor grievance but I'm sure it's does take away some fun from everyone, when you're a neutral role you seem to always just immediately claim as such and claim you won't participate in exchange for both sides leaving you alone. Which is bad enough as it essentially would remove you from the game, but on top of it, it's a total lie and you do go and influence events anyway so not only are you tricking people into thinking there's effectively one less person in the game, you're taking advantage of their trust in you. That's not fun, it's just cheap and rude and poor sportsmanship. I could probably figure out some more if my memory was better and I was willing to get amazingly petty with this. *shrug* Not that I think we should ever get that petty. Then the community would fall apart in an endless cycle of pointless bickering.

This again seems to stem from me screwing over in that other game which is my point about you wanting to lynch me due to bias rather than solid reasoning but I will address this point. We are playing WW, deception is a core part of this game. I don't see how that is cheap, rude or poor sportsmanship.

Um what? So you're going to judge people here by the standards of groups that are....not here? That would be I guess maybe kinda sorta reasonable if it weren't like... doing so to go directly against the grain of how people play here. Also what, did you just call me irrational? Not even just irrational but like.... stupid and irrational. Dude. Also apparently paranoid and crazy as I'm in no danger of being lynched right now as far as I can tell and haven't said anything so far to say I was. (Although I a while ago predicted I might be at some point in the future and have expressed some surprised at not being so, but that's not at all the same.) The only people voting for me are you, with a clearly stated revenge vote backed up by reasons that make no sense under DC 2 Perception check scrutiny, and Aventine for.... no specific reason especially when his own logic states you're a much better target than I am. (Again, weeeeeeeeird.) So that's 2 votes on me with no good supporting logic of any kind. I've not the reason to behave defensively or in a panic at this point. Which just kind of makes your justification there more insulting. (Although I'm starting to feel like I'm insulting myself for even bothering to seriously respond to such rude & asinine things.)

As I pointed out, I don't think you were acting entirely rationally during that exchange which is why I believe it was a screwup of a wolf rather than just you misremembering what I posted.
Some things don't change regardless of forums, my point is if other players who were otherwise very good players can make huge mistakes, why is it wrong for me to assume that you made one there?

[Ramsus]

@Aventine: Wow. Just went back and read both posts. You're totally right. I gave you waaaaaaaaaay more credit than you deserve. All you did was throw out the idea that the wolves obviously should have noticed Duck being a mason defending FC. And then you failed. to recognize the concept that this has a fair shot of being because FC is a wolf. Also you mentally filtered everything I said so that it somehow came out as not helpful to town even though I'm basically one of the only people doing any kind of analysis and trying to keep other people who aren't involved in drama from failing to be active. (Yeah Rain Dragon I'm still waiting on you to provide some kind of reason for your vote, I didn't forget. That said you could easily have no even seen that post yet....so whatever. Still, if you don't respond before the day ends you're going on my suspects list.)

So yeah, I totally apologize for making that mistake. (Most people would be kinda happy someone mentally edited their actions into being a lot more helpful/clever than they were but either you have serious integrity or you have such blind antipathy for me that you're jumping for any reason to vote for me no matter how crazy it is.)

Edit: OMG FC ninja'd me AGAIN. This is nuts. Ok I'll probably have an edit incoming with a reply to whatever he said.

Edit 2: First off I'd like to say, if anyone wants to just tell me I'd be safe from a lynch of the absolutely dumbest kind by just ignoring things FC says I wish I could afford to just not reply to please please tell me. This is getting incredibly tiresome. And it seems unfair I'd give all of you an out in this situation, but I can't expect one. (No I'm not condemning behavior any of you haven't engaged in yet. Just saying that based on past experience.)

Ok FC, it's wrong of you to pretend to believe things about my behavior that make no sense when applied to my actual past behavior when you have as much experience playing with me as you do, especially when they wouldn't apply to the way anyone else here plays either. Even if you have somehow forced an image of me in your mind that is 120% divorced from reality, it still makes no sense for you to expect everyone else to lynch me for something nobody else will ever believe I did (because it makes no sense to believe your bizzaro world version of my intentions) when everyone else here gives each other a free pass on similar mistakes. I don't even know what you're doing anymore here. Going for an insanity defense? I guess if your usual tricks aren't working..... *shrug* (Clarification: That was 95% joke. And I wasn't calling FC insane, I was saying he was trying to get other people to not lynch him by convincing them he's being insane and thus is somehow a non-threat.)

{scrubbed}

[AvatarVecna]

@AvatarVecna: Huh? Never said you were being hostile. Just that you were being wolfish. As far as depths of intrigue goes.... you'd be surprised how not deep it usually goes given the capabilities we all have to do so if we wanted. Sometime's we're lucky when people put out single-think let alone double or triple-think.

Maybe I'm just misremembering, or maybe I was just tired, but I swear there's someone upthread who posted something like "Don't you see? They're only acting guilty because they're trying to trick you into thinking they're wolves trying to pull a double-fake out, when they're actually just townsfolk pulling a quintuple fake out! It's the perfect cover, because they're actually wolves pulling a sextuple fake out."

I'm pretty sure I read it wrong or something, because I cannot for the life of me find the post in question. Regardless, I found the idea amusing, especially since it's only day two and there's no real way to have that much information yet.

[sphazre]

Why do we have to bring things into this game from other games? Ugh.

So the reason we have to bring things in from other games has the following reasons (at least, I'm sure I'll miss some). The main reason is to analyze behavior to detect any tells or otherwise influence decisions in a meaningful way that gives some kind of advantage to your team. ....

There's analysing behavior, and there's dragging grudges over. This is now the latter.

Anyways there are possible reasons for both Sprig and Legato Endless. Sprig did explain, so Legato for now.

(Sorry for missing Day 1.)

[Fleeing Coward]

Ok FC, it's wrong of you to pretend to believe things about my behavior that make no sense when applied to my actual past behavior when you have as much experience playing with me as you do, especially when they wouldn't apply to the way anyone else here plays either. Even if you have somehow forced an image of me in your mind that is 120% divorced from reality, it still makes no sense for you to expect everyone else to lynch me for something nobody else will ever believe I did (because it makes no sense to believe your bizzaro world version of my intentions) when everyone else here gives each other a free pass on similar mistakes. I don't even know what you're doing anymore here. Going for an insanity defense? I guess if your usual tricks aren't working..... *shrug* (Clarification: That was 95% joke. And I wasn't calling FC insane, I was saying he was trying to get other people to not lynch him by convincing them he's being insane and thus is somehow a non-threat.)

I don't remember anyone ever trying to claim I've made massive edits to make me look guilty before. I might be wrong but I don't believe this was you simply misremembering and more you trying to back out on an ill thought out plan to try to make me seem guilty.

Also, did you seriously just admit to deliberately provoking drama? Do we really need that? I was pretty sure that's against the rules. Also seriously how many times am I going to have to outright beg people to stop making me the target of such a foul tactic if they really feel they have to use it for some horrible reason? It's bad enough I asked you at the start of a game to leave me the hell alone and you went out of your way to screw with me to the point that I have to go out of my way to remove you from games as fast as I possibly can just to hope that you will ever get the message to back the hell off. But it's nuts that you know you're being rude to people to the point they have enough issues with you that it has to cross over into future games with you and you then still don't let up. The nuts part isn't you. I don't even have the right words for that behavior. The nuts part is that everyone else puts up with you doing that. I'm not saying that people should have demanded you stop playing or completely change your playstyle, but it's downright self-detrimental that none of them have tried to convince you that behaving that way makes everything less fun for everyone in the long run. If you could just tone it down and stop attacking the same targets over and over that at the very least would go a long way. (Not that I should have to be expected to tell you that. By all rights I should be subtly encouraging you to behave worse and worse until you royally screw up. But for all my antipathy towards you, I'm just not that much of a jerk. Also... probably against the rules too. Or at least the spirit of them.)

I make accusations to provoke responses. There's nothing wrong with that or against the rules. Some people may find my accusations abit over the top sometimes but I don't do things in half measures and I've never been intentionally rude. Sometimes people interpret what I say to be abrupt and rude but that's not something I can control.

I still can't believe you are delusional enough to think that I have been the one targeting you.
Stranded: You repeatedly cast suspicion on me and my claim then find it surprising that I finally decide to remove you when you didn't want to make any deal that didn't involve me doing what you tell me to do.
Here: I made a single throwaway comment about you and didn't even vote for you and your response is:

Duck, that ignores the part where what FC is known to be good at is manipulating his enemies into not killing him or killing other people when they really should just kill him like they thought in the first place. That doesn't actually make him a valuable member of the team. In fact as far as I can tell he usually isn't since he throws out lies and misdirection as a matter of course which causes problems even for people on his team. The only person who gets an advantage by FC's playstyle is FC, everyone else suffers more likely than not.

Also Aventine basically ignored what firedaemon was really saying in order to twist things to try and subtly change the meaning so that he could make an argument against it. As what I saw was firedaemon saying (correctly) that most likely any random person is statistically unlikely to be on your side on this game, and FC's talent for manipulating people into not killing him when they should means he has a talent that's a notable threat in an opponent and not much aid as a teammate and thus was a pretty decent choice of day 1 lynch. Then Aventine seems to have intentionally twisted that statement as if firedaemon was saying FC was more likely to be a wolf specifically and then argued against that. Which either mean Aventine was arguing against it just to argue and show he's being active already or he actually had a motive for it and was actually trying to protect FC. In the later case that'd make FC and Aventine wolves or masons. And masons generally don't go in for character attacks in my experience. Though... *shrug*

Edit: Got ninja'd by FC. Interesting how his post is all about making firedaemon's behavior look irrational while as far as I can tell it's probably the only actual rationally thought out vote so far. (Including mine, I'm not at all afraid to say I voted for FC for personal reasons.)

Edit 2: I suppose it would be unfair of me to leave out the possibility that Aventine twisted firedaemon's words for no particular purpose at all and it was just because that's what he does. Because that is in my experience Aventine's general playstyle.

How do you expect me to stop making you a target when you go out of your way to make my life hard?

[Penguinator]

Quick overview of today:
Votes:
FC - Ramsus, Vwulf DeMarcus
Ramsus - FC, Aventine
Legato Endless - Sprig, Rain Dragon, sphazre

Players who have not posted today:

Spoiler

Show

firedaemon33
Legato Endless
ThePhantom
braveheart

-AvatarVecna has not voted.
-Tanar Aerdoth has not voted.

Thoughts on day one: I appreciate Sprig's joke vote for Rain Dragon; it amused me. For today, I also approve of Sprig's wagon on Legato Endless. The wolfiest thing I see from day one is that Tanar and Legato Endless posted together twice. Now, sure, maybe they just happen to log on at the same time, but that seems unlikely. The first posts were at 1:25 and 1:37 EST, and the second were at 16:55 and 17:07 EST. If both of these times were, y'know, roughly the same time of day, that may make a little more sense. But these events were at a difference of more than twelve hours. Also, I don't know about anyone else, but I don't generally make an effort to post exactly twelve minutes apart from anybody else here. That happened twice. Spooky, or wolfy, to be precise. Especially since they both voted for the same target on the second bout, the unfortunate Duck999, our dead mason friend. That is super sketchy.

Rather than push a larger wagon on Legato Endless who has yet to post today before he has any chance to defend himself, I'm going to look at Tanar Aerdoth, who has posted today. I'll throw a FoS at AvatarVecna for not having voted today, as well. That in itself isn't a crime, but for someone who has posted several times today and made a total of three different votes yesterday, it seems oddly out of character.

And a shout out to my good man Tanar, whose profile says that he is, in fact, logged in and looking at this very thread.

[Ionbound]

Hmm. I suppose I should vote at some point. Also, sorry for dredging up all this mess. Totes my bad guys, didn't realize there was such bad blood. Point at Legato Endless unless someone else votes for FC as I don't want a tied vote.

[Ramsus]

Yeah ok, that's it. I don't care anymore. I'm just going to ignore FC now since he can outright call me delusional and nobody gives a crap. Besides he's so far had nothing worthwhile to say as far as I can tell. Unlike FC I'm going to at least try and actually follow through with the ignoring. Not just pointlessly lying to everyone as another cheap setup for how innocent he clearly must be despite the constant lies, manipulation, and intentional drama creation.

[ThePhantom]

Well, I'm not feeling like focusing with the groups right now. So Tanar Aerdoth.

[Tris]

And a shout out to my good man Tanar, whose profile says that he is, in fact, logged in and looking at this very thread.

Hello! Yeah, I was indeed lurking on the thread. I hadn't posted since my last post because I wanted to take some time away from the bickering that was going before I came back and posted. I was about to vote for Legato right now because of how he voted yesterday, but as you point out he hasn't had a chance to respond yet. I think I'll just withhold my vote for the moment, but also take a look at some other players.

[AvatarVecna]

Rather than push a larger wagon on Legato Endless who has yet to post today before he has any chance to defend himself, I'm going to look at Tanar Aerdoth, who has posted today. I'll throw a FoS at AvatarVecna for not having voted today, as well. That in itself isn't a crime, but for someone who has posted several times today and made a total of three different votes yesterday, it seems oddly out of character.

While I'm getting the general gist of it, what exactly does FoS stand for?

I'm avoiding voting for now because I don't have any suspicions of wolf-hood strong enough to act on, and my voting method of day 1 (read: random die rolls, mostly) aren't very helpful after day one.

[Internet Flea]

A reminder; any PMs between players should also be forwarded to myself and Logic, or reposted in your quicktopics where we can see them.

[Tris]

While I'm getting the general gist of it, what exactly does FoS stand for?

I'm avoiding voting for now because I don't have any suspicions of wolf-hood strong enough to act on, and my voting method of day 1 (read: random die rolls, mostly) aren't very helpful after day one.

Then vote for your strongest weak wolf read. Voting is the town's weapon. Use it. (In my case I'm withholding my vote until Legato either speaks, or doesn't after a period of time.)

FoS is Finger of Suspicion.

What happened to braveheart?

He was on earlier today.

[AvatarVecna]

Thanks for the info! And you've got a point.

I vote Fleeing Coward; they've admitted to voting with the intention of provoking reactions rather than killing wolves, and I just get a manipulative vibe whenever they post. TBH, Ramsus seems more prone to argument, but if nothing else, Ramsus is fairly experienced, and they wouldn't be so quick to argue this stuff so often if they were a wolf; they'd be more careful if they were.

And there's two days left; I'm sure my vote will change over that time, as will many other people's votes.

[Ionbound]

Welp, as I said, flopping to FC to prevent a tie. I want pressure, one way or another.

[Penguinator]

Update:

Quick overview of today:
Votes:
FC - Ramsus, Vwulf DeMarcus, AvatarVecna, firedaemon33
Ramsus - FC, Aventine
Legato Endless - Sprig, Rain Dragon, sphazre
Tanar Aerdoth - Penguinator, ThePhantom

Players who have not posted today:
Legato Endless
braveheart

-Tanar Aerdoth has a Schrodinger's vote.

@Avatar: As Tanar pointed out, FoS is "Finger of Suspicion." Sometimes, votes for suspicious characters are made in orange. They don't count for anything, but they show that you think they're worth a look.

I believe Tanar's response was both amusing and appropriate. I will, however, leave my vote there for the time being.

firedaemon's post confuses me as there was not a tie in place.

[Tris]

What's wrong with a tie anyway? it gets resolved. This isn't Stranded.

[Fleeing Coward]

Thanks for the info! And you've got a point.

I vote Fleeing Coward; they've admitted to voting with the intention of provoking reactions rather than killing wolves, and I just get a manipulative vibe whenever they post. TBH, Ramsus seems more prone to argument, but if nothing else, Ramsus is fairly experienced, and they wouldn't be so quick to argue this stuff so often if they were a wolf; they'd be more careful if they were.

And there's two days left; I'm sure my vote will change over that time, as will many other people's votes.

Provoking reactions is the first step to getting wolves. Reactions means you get information and discussion and that's where you find your wolves. If everyone stayed silent every game and pointed, you get little information other than a voting record and wolves will win the majority of those games.

I'm not going to back down from calling Ramsus delusional because that's how I see him. He's the one that's been targeting me every game saying that I'm untrustworthy and I'm expected to just take that lying down? I'm just responding to a fight he started yet somehow I'm the big bad wolf that's trying to manipulate people?

[sphazre]

@Penguinator Schrodinger's vote?

[AvatarVecna]

Provoking reactions is the first step to getting wolves. Reactions means you get information and discussion and that's where you find your wolves. If everyone stayed silent every game and pointed, you get little information other than a voting record and wolves will win the majority of those games.

I'm not going to back down from calling Ramsus delusional because that's how I see him. He's the one that's been targeting me every game saying that I'm untrustworthy and I'm expected to just take that lying down? I'm just responding to a fight he started yet somehow I'm the big bad wolf that's trying to manipulate people?

I don't find him to be particularly delusional or rational, and his arguments aren't basis of my decision. And you make a fair point about finding wolves. To make a hyperbolic comparison, Ramsus comes across as a sign-toting protester, while you come across as a smooth-talking lawyer. Ramsus' arguments may seem more based on emotions than logic, but this makes them seem more honest to me, while yours seem focused on emotionless manipulation. That is, of course, an exaggeration of the situation, but it expresses my feelings on the two of you.

Based on the impressions I get from the two of you, I'm more inclined to think that you're a wolf than he is. Of course, because you two are the primary ones talking, it's possible that another person will speak up enough times in the next two days that they will draw enough suspicion as to change my vote and the votes of others. But until such a time, you seem like the most likely person to be a wolf, to me anyway.

[Penguinator]

I was about to vote for Legato right now because of how he voted yesterday, but as you point out he hasn't had a chance to respond yet. I think I'll just withhold my vote for the moment, but also take a look at some other players.

@Penguinator Schrodinger's vote?

This is what I was referring to. Tanar is somewhere between voting for Legato (implication that he would like to) and not voting for Legato. Officially, he is not, but he's waiting for more information before he decides.

[Fleeing Coward]

I don't find him to be particularly delusional or rational, and his arguments aren't basis of my decision. And you make a fair point about finding wolves. To make a hyperbolic comparison, Ramsus comes across as a sign-toting protester, while you come across as a smooth-talking lawyer. Ramsus' arguments may seem more based on emotions than logic, but this makes them seem more honest to me, while yours seem focused on emotionless manipulation. That is, of course, an exaggeration of the situation, but it expresses my feelings on the two of you.

Based on the impressions I get from the two of you, I'm more inclined to think that you're a wolf than he is. Of course, because you two are the primary ones talking, it's possible that another person will speak up enough times in the next two days that they will draw enough suspicion as to change my vote and the votes of others. But until such a time, you seem like the most likely person to be a wolf, to me anyway.

I understand your meaning but that's the whole point.
Call me manipulative if you want but I don't let my emotions get in the way of the raw facts.
You said yourself that you believe Ramsus to be an experienced player. So tell me, what do you think an experienced player does when they can't present an actual case with checkable facts against someone they want to see lynched?

I know my playing style sometimes antagonises certain players but at least I'm presenting facts that are checkable by anyone who bothers to check rather than trying to build a case based mainly on emotions.

[Ramsus]

@AvatarVecna: Uh.... huh? While I'm certainly happy you're voting for the guy I think is a wolf and I wasn't the guy called emotionless or a lawyer, I'm pretty sure you've got who is doing the emotion based arguments backwards. No matter my personal, we should lynch FC because he ruins fun views, my main argument is a fact based one based on that a mason died defending FC instead of himself and yet the wolves didn't kill FC. I'm also going to point out that I was never saying there's a more than 50% chance FC is a wolf. What I'm saying is that there's a higher chance FC is a wolf than there is any other random person who we have no real information on is. Barring a better suspect (someone want to remind me of the reason people are voting for Legato again? Been kinda distracted and I no longer remember.) that's no reason I can see we shouldn't go for the one person we know of who has a more than average chance of being a wolf. (Also he's been making himself look extra scummy with his desperation move arguments.)

Edit: Also you do remember that FC admitted his main reason for voting for me was "revenge vote" right? Everything after that was just him adding flimsy reasons that would never result in us lynching anyone as an additional excuse just to make his behavior look better.

And again, what's up with people being ok with FC basically calling me names?

[Fleeing Coward]

@AvatarVecna: Uh.... huh? While I'm certainly happy you're voting for the guy I think is a wolf and I wasn't the guy called emotionless or a lawyer, I'm pretty sure you've got who is doing the emotion based arguments backwards. No matter my personal, we should lynch FC because he ruins fun views, my main argument is a fact based one based on that a mason died defending FC instead of himself and yet the wolves didn't kill FC. I'm also going to point out that I was never saying there's a more than 50% chance FC is a wolf. What I'm saying is that there's a higher chance FC is a wolf than there is any other random person who we have no real information on is. Barring a better suspect (someone want to remind me of the reason people are voting for Legato again? Been kinda distracted and I no longer remember.) that's no reason I can see we shouldn't go for the one person we know of who has a more than average chance of being a wolf. (Also he's been making himself look extra scummy with his desperation move arguments.)

Edit: Also you do remember that FC admitted his main reason for voting for me was "revenge vote" right? Everything after that was just him adding flimsy reasons that would never result in us lynching anyone as an additional excuse just to make his behavior look better.

And again, what's up with people being ok with FC basically calling me names?

This is coming from the person that vowed to make it his goal to get me lynched every game regardless of whether it'd hurt his side or not.

So calling people delusional is a crime but it's fine to basically infer that someone is a lying, manipulative drama queen. I'll keep a note of that.

[AvatarVecna]

@AvatarVecna: Uh.... huh? While I'm certainly happy you're voting for the guy I think is a wolf and I wasn't the guy called emotionless or a lawyer, I'm pretty sure you've got who is doing the emotion based arguments backwards. No matter my personal, we should lynch FC because he ruins fun views, my main argument is a fact based one based on that a mason died defending FC instead of himself and yet the wolves didn't kill FC. I'm also going to point out that I was never saying there's a more than 50% chance FC is a wolf. What I'm saying is that there's a higher chance FC is a wolf than there is any other random person who we have no real information on is. Barring a better suspect (someone want to remind me of the reason people are voting for Legato again? Been kinda distracted and I no longer remember.) that's no reason I can see we shouldn't go for the one person we know of who has a more than average chance of being a wolf. (Also he's been making himself look extra scummy with his desperation move arguments.)

Edit: Also you do remember that FC admitted his main reason for voting for me was "revenge vote" right? Everything after that was just him adding flimsy reasons that would never result in us lynching anyone as an additional excuse just to make his behavior look better.

And again, what's up with people being ok with FC basically calling me names?

That's just they way the two of you are coming across to me; I admit it could me misinterpreting stuff (my social skills aren't as evolved as I'd like them to be. FC comes across as slick and sneaky, while you come across as kind of angry in general. Until there's a better suspect, FC is my vote. Also, I thought you voted for FC (and was generally denouncing them) way before FC actually voted for you.

And it doesn't seem like people are ignoring the name calling: of the three forming bandwagons, you're in third place, with FC in first. I think the name-calling is being taken into account, even if it's not stated by the voters.

[Ramsus]

Oh I'm not going to argue that I'm the one of the two of us that seems angry (though I'm not the one resorting to name calling so it might be better to just say we both are in different ways), just saying I'm the one providing any logic based argument and he's the one only providing an emotional one, that's all. Yes, this sounds weird, but as I already said earlier, I'm capable of separating my ire and reason as different things. And yeah, my first argument for us to lynch him was emotion based. I just also have the second stronger argument that's logic based. (As a side note, I also wouldn't disagree that FC comes off as slick & sneaky either. Well actually I'm not sure what's sneaky about the way he's acting this game. Most games that'd probably apply though.)

As far as whether people are having a feeling on the name calling, I was looking for a meta-response "that's bad, stop doing that, it's not fun for any of us, dude the rules c'mon at least try and obey them?" and that sort of thing. I wasn't trying (and don't want) to get an in game advantage on what is basically just people's thoughts on what we're willing to accept as our minimum tolerable level of civility.

[Fleeing Coward]

There is no logic behind your argument Ramsus no matter how many times you claim there is.
You've made it clear from the moment I got you lynched in Stranded that you'd attempt to get me killed every game we're in sides be damned. I had initially thought that was just a heat of the moment thing but your actions this game made it pretty clear to me that you don't care one bit about the good of the town as long as you can get me killed.

[Sprig]

I'm sorry...

I have got quickly tired of this...

Nether of the arguments put forth by FC or Ramsus despite the reams of text, have much solid content and there has been nothing really helpful to us at all to justify further voting on them. All it has done has sucked in a few people into its votex which means it is effectively a distraction. The only suitable excuse that I would accept would be if you wanted to lynch one fo them in order to stop the bickering and remove the distraction. But i havn;t actually even seen that vote yet.

To those voting FC and Ramsus, I ask you to ignore both of them for the time being and have a look at other options.