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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Dread Necromancer remake [PEACH]

    Spoiler: Misc
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    So, haven't done any homebrew in a while and am too lazy to reformat my old stuff, since it doesn't really see any use, but I decided I'd try my hand at updating a class to 5th edition, one of my favorite ones.

    My general design guidelines were to make it so it follows similar patters of 'subclasses' as is the norm, and I did my best to balance it to existing capabilities. It has more spells known than a sorcerer, from a smaller spell list, but it can expand that list every few levels. I figure this gives it a nice 5th edition feel for how things work without entirely removing the 'spontaneous, large number of spells' feel of the class.

    I also added a secondary 'arcane secret' sort of focus to them, wherein the ritual casting isn't from spontaneous capabilities but rather garnered from swiping the spells and similar of more traditional casters for that sort of magic. It does mean some MAD, but that's on purpose. Past that, it also defines how the subclasses work, it's the way they focus their discovered secrets that define their path.

    Let me know if any balance seems off, or whatever else. I'm still pretty new to 5th edition.

    Current thoughts: I know I already grabbed most of the Necromancy spells for their list, so the primary use of advanced learning is just to grab another spell known right now. Since differing spell levels aren't really a thing, for eclectic learning I made it so they're simply maxed at one level less than they can cast for their choice. Also, yes, I know I swiped a few things from the Necromancer specialist wizard and similar, no reason to reinvent the wheel, right?



    Dread Necromancer
    A pale hand extends forward and crackles with dark energy, the half elf's victim screaming as the crackling force discharges into still living flesh. The last breath escapes them and their soul is drawn out with it, trapped in an onyx sphere as a smirk crosses his face.
    The small contingent approaches the Drow sitting in the middle of the battlefield. They draw their swords, but he suddenly begins to laugh, head tilting back and eyes glowing black as the group's former comrades rise to their feet, flesh parting around their animate skeletons as they rush forward with an eery hiss.
    Grinning darkly, the Tiefling eyes the approaching paladin and steps into the light. What seemed at a distance to be bright red flesh is revealed to be rotted, hardened skin clinging to a lithe skeleton. Pointing forward, a dozen ghostly hands reach outward from the cave's crevices, reaching for the neck of the intruder.
    Dread Necromancers are fueled by dark energy in the same way a Sorcerer might be fueled by raw magic or the elements, wielding these forces as if by second nature. No few claims of lich sightings were actually a run in with one of these casters, their living forms inching towards Undeath as their power grows.

    Commanding the Dead
    Whether they reach for Undeath themselves or simply master their control over reanimated forces, dread necromancers are the quintessential arcane masters of the dead. While a wizard may study necromantic spells, and a cleric may channel negative energy, neither have the innate connection to the once living that the dread necromancer does.
    While few can tell the difference between a specialist wizard and a dread necromancer, those that can are fairly quick to distrust them. Necromancy is often seen as a vile practice, and those that seem to have a penchant for little else are tied to those assumptions. Often times, though, these claims are all too correct.

    Dark Secrets
    While much of their talent is innate, most dread necromancers have the same penchant for arcane knowledge as wizards and warlocks, but rather than mastering arcane schools or pledging to other beings, the necromancer reaches within, finding ways to change themselves and what they do, mastering their capabilities and even their forms in a way entirely different from either.
    Transforming themselves and their surroundings like they do, however, can disconnect them from the world around them, or at least put them in such a position as to make everyone feel like there's a disconnect. Still, very few are bothered by this, much preferring to reach immortality and study eldritch secrets on their own.

    Creating a Dread Necromancer
    Creating a dread necromancer involves thinking into their end goals. While, unlike Sorcerers, their power normally all comes from a similar place, it's what they want to do with that power that separates any given dread necromancer.
    Does he seek immortality, wanting to convert himself into something like a lich? Does he wish to gain mastery over the undead, gaining an unparalleled level of control over the animated corpses he commands? Or does he seek to control the energy within him itself, channeling negative forces in a way that would make even a cleric of Wee Jas jealous?

    Quick Build
    You can make a dread necromancer quickly by following these suggestions. Charisma should be your highest attribute, followed by Dexterity. Intelligence is often important too, as a third choice. Choose the Hermit background. Then, take the Chill Touch, Dancing Lights, Mage Hand and Thaumaturgy cantrips, the 1st level spells False Life and Ray of Sickness, and the 1st level rituals Detect Magic and Find Familiar.

    Level Proficiency Bonus Features Cantrips Known Spells Known Spell Slots
    1 +2 Spellcasting, Channel Negative Energy (1/rest) 4 2 (As full caster)
    2 +2 Necromantic Focus 4 3
    3 +2 Advanced Learning 4 5
    4 +2 Ability Score Improvement 5 6
    5 +3 Channel Negative Energy (2/rest) 5 7
    6 +3 Eclectic Learning, Focus Improvement 5 9
    7 +3 - 5 10
    8 +3 Ability Score Improvement 5 11
    9 +4 Advanced Learning 5 13
    10 +4 Focus Improvement 6 14
    11 +4 - 6 15
    12 +4 Ability Score Improvement, Eclectic Learning 6 16
    13 +5 - 6 17
    14 +5 Focus Improvement 6 17
    15 +5 Advanced Learning 6 19
    16 +5 Ability Score Improvement 6 19
    17 +6 Focus Improvement 6 20
    18 +6 Eclectic Learning 6 21
    19 +6 Ability Score Improvement 6 21
    20 +6 Dread Rebirth 6 21

    Class Features

    Hit Points
    Hit Dice: 1d8 per dread necromancer level
    Hit Points at 1st Level: 8 + your Constitution modifier
    Hit Points at Higher Levels: 1d8 (or 5) + your Constitution modifier per dread necromancer level after 1st

    Proficiencies
    Armor: None
    Weapons: Simple Weapons
    Tools: None
    Saving Throws: Wisdom, Charisma
    Skills: Choose two from Arcana, Deception, Insight, Intimidation, Investigation, and Religion

    Equipment
    You start with the following equipment, in addition to the equipment granted by your background.
    *(a) a light crossbow and 20 bolts or (b) any simple weapon
    *(a) a component pouch or (b) an arcane focus
    *(a) a scholar's pack or (b) a dungeoneer's pack

    Spellcasting
    Whether through an odd birth or the 'blessing' of a dark cleric, you were infused with negative energy and necromantic power at some point in your life, infusing you with arcane magic. This dark energy fuels your spells. See chapter 10 of the PHB for rules on spellcasting and below for the dread necromancer spell list.

    Cantrips
    At 1st level, you know four cantrips of your choice from the dread necromancer spell list. You learn additional dread necromancer cantrips of your choice at higher levels, as shown in the Cantrips Known column of the Dread Necromancer table.

    Spell Slots
    The Dread Necromancer table shows how many spell slots you have to cast your spells of 1st level and higher. To cast one of these dread necromancer spells, you must expend a slot of the spell’s level or higher. You regain all expended spell slots when you finish a long rest.
    Spoiler
    Show
    It's the same as every other full caster, so I didn't bother tediously filling that part in.


    Spells Known
    You know two 1st-level spells of your choice from the dread necromancer spell list.
    The Spells Known column of the dread necromancer table shows when you learn more dread necromancer spells of your choice. Each of these spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots. For instance, when you reach 3rd level in this class, you can learn one new spell of 1st or 2nd level.
    Additionally, when you gain a level in this class, you can choose one of the dread necromancer spells you know and replace it with another spell from the dread necromancer spell list, which also must be of a level for which you have spell slots.

    Spellcasting Ability
    Charisma is your spellcasting ability for your dread necromancer spells, since the power of your magic relies on your ability to project your will into the world. You use your Charisma whenever a spell refers to your spellcasting ability. In addition, you use your Charisma modifier when setting the saving throw DC for a dread necromancer spell you cast and when making an attack roll with one.
    Spell save DC = 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Charisma modifier
    Spell attack modifier = your proficiency bonus + your Charisma modifier

    Ritual Tome
    Dread Necromancers don't simply rely on their own innate power, but also seek arcane secrets sought by traditional arcane casters. In addition to your innate ability with spells, you can learn a number of spells as rituals. This works as the Ritual Caster feat, except you always choose the Wizard spell list to learn your rituals from, and thus always use Intelligence for these spells. If you already have a ritual spell Known, you may copy it to your ritual tome at half the normal cost, and you don't need a scroll or spellbook to copy it from.

    Spellcasting Focus
    You can use an arcane focus as a spellcasting focus for your dread necromancer spells, but not your rituals.

    Channel Negative Energy
    Similar to how a cleric may Channel Divinity, a Dread Necromancer can channel their internal negative energy into specific effects. To start, you can only Turn Undead, but your Necromantic Focus will grant you further effects as you advance in level, as noted in the focus descriptions.
    When you use your Channel Negative Energy, you choose which effect to create. You must then finish a short or long rest to use your Channel Negative Energy again.
    Some Channel Negative Energy effects require saving throws. When you use such an effect from this class, the DC equals your dread necromancer spell save DC.
    Beginning at 5th level, you can use your Channel Negative Energy twice between rests. When you finish a short or long rest, you regain your expended uses.

    Necromantic Focus
    At second level, you must select your Necromantic Focus, which defines your long term goals and the way your power is channeled. The Undead Mastery, Lich Transformation, and Energy Harnessing focuses are listed below.
    Your choice grants you features at 2nd, 6th, 10th, 14th, and 17th level.

    Advanced and Eclectic Learning
    Every 3rd level, a Dread Necromancer expands their knowledge of magic, either through pilfered secrets or mastery of necromantic methods. At 3rd, 9th, and 15th level, you gain Advanced Learning; add any Necromancy spell of any level you can cast to your Spells Known, from any list (so, at 15th level you could choose up to an 8th level spell). At 6th, 12th, and 18th level, you gain Eclectic Learning; add any Wizard spell of a maximum level equal to one less than you have slots for to your Spells Known (so, at 18th level you could select up to an 8th level spell, for instance).
    The chosen spells count as Dread Necromancer spells for you, and are included in the Spells Known column of the Dread Necromancer table.

    Ability Score Improvement
    When you reach 4th level, and again at 8th, 12th, 16th, and 19th level, you can increase one ability score of your choice by 2, or you can increase two ability scores of your choice by 1. As normal, you can’t increase an ability score above 20 using this feature.

    Dread Rebirth
    At 20th level, you gain access to the ultimate feature for your Necromantic Focus. In addition, when you lose at least 10 hit points from an attack by an enemy, you may choose to regain a total number of spell slots equal to one half the damage taken, though none of them may be above 5th level. This works one time; you regain this ability after a long rest.


    Necromantic Focuses
    While dread necromancers have varying, widespread goals, many of them focus on some form of control; either of their own bodies, the forms of the undead, or the flow of negative energy within and without.

    Undead Mastery
    Rather than attempting to grasp for internal power, you learn to focus your energy on control; specifically, you learn to command Undead, both those created by you and those that already walk the globe for one reason or another. Whether you plan to create an army with which to take over a nation, or simply wish to create bodyguards and assistants you can trust inherently, you are incredibly adept at manipulating un-living forms.
    Spoiler: Undead Mastery Improvements
    Show

    Rebuke Undead
    At 2nd level, you gain more finesse in the way you turn undead. Instead of forcing an undead creature to run directly away from you, you may instead have them simply fall to their knees (effectively becoming prone) and cower in awe of you. In addition, if an Undead target has fewer Hit Dice than you, they have disadvantage on their save versus Turn Undead.

    Corpsecraft
    When you reach 6th level, you gain Animate Dead as a bonus spell known. This is done after you gain or replace other spells known for the level, so if you already knew it you may replace it beforehand. When you cast it, you may target an additional corpse or pile of bones, creating another zombie or skeleton as appropriate.
    Whenever you create an undead using a necromancy spell, it has additional benefits:
    • The creature’s hit point maximum is increased by an amount equal to your dread necromancer level.
    • The creature adds your proficiency bonus to its weapon damage rolls

    Everlasting Control
    At 10th level, you gain further control over the Undead you create. Every day, you may upkeep a total number of spell levels equal to (half your Dread Necromancer level + your charisma bonus) that normally require daily recasting in order to keep control over undead you've created (For instance, Animate Dead or Create Undead). This does not require a recasting of the spell.
    For instance, at 14th level with a Charisma of 16 you could upkeep a casting of Animate Dead at 3rd level and a casting of Create Undead at 7th level.

    Command Undead
    Starting at 14th level, you can use magic to bring undead under your control, even those created by other spell-casters. As an action, you can choose one undead that you can see within 60 feet of you. That creature must make a Charisma saving throw against your dread necromancer spell save DC. If it succeeds, you can’t use this feature on it again. If it fails, it becomes friendly to you and obeys your commands until you use this feature again.
    Intelligent undead are harder to control in this way. If the target has an Intelligence of 8 or higher, it has advantage on the saving throw. If it fails the saving throw and has an Intelligence of 12 or higher, it can repeat the saving throw at the end of every hour until it succeeds and breaks free.
    In addition, if you spend one of your Channel Negative Energy uses, you may use it again without losing control of an Undead creature you've already used this focus improvement on, but you may only do this once until you either voluntarily give up control of one or one of them is destroyed (So, you'll never have Command of more than two creatures).

    Desecration
    At 17th level, you gain the ability to make an area better suited to Undead. Once per day, as an action, you may create a 20 foot radius area to Desecrate. For the next hour, any Undead created there (such as with Animate Dead or Create Undead) has a strength that's 2 higher than it was in life (to a maximum of 20), and its maximum hit points improve by the caster's level.

    Dread Rebirth: Undead Lord
    When you reach 20th level, you reach the final level of command you can achieve over your undead minions. When casting a Necromancy spell that creates an Undead creature (Such as Animate Dead or Create Undead), you may treat the spell as if it were cast using a spell slot one level higher than was actually used. You may only do this once, and regain the ability after a long rest.


    Lich Transformation
    While Dread Necromancers generally don't fully become liches, you have learned to alter your form in a manner that grants similar capabilities, and eventually a form of immortality. This is often a dangerous path, as many that see the signs of lichdom are quick to bring arms down upon the suspected necromancer.
    Spoiler: Lich Transformation Improvements
    Show

    Lich Body
    At 2nd level, your unarmored AC is equal to 10 + your Dexterity modifiers + your Charisma modifier. In addition, you gain the following Channel Negative Energy effect.

    Channel Negative Energy: Undead Resilience
    As an action, you focus on bringing your body close to the state of Undeath, and gain resistance to either bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing damage for 1 minute.

    Undead Resistance
    Starting at 6th level, you gain resistance to necrotic energy. In addition, when you use Undead Resilience, you may instead choose resistance to cold or electricity.

    Paralyzing Touch
    When you reach 10th level, you gain a lesser form of the Paralyzing Touch Liches are capable of. Once per short rest, you can make a melee touch attack on a living creature. On a success, you deal 3d6 cold damage, and the target must make a Constitution save (use your spell save DC for this class). If they fail, they're also paralyzed for as long you maintain Concentration, up to a minute.

    Dead Mind
    At 14th level, you have advantage on saves to avoid the Charmed, Exhausted, Frightened, Paralyzed, and Poisoned conditions, as you begin to convert your mind to match the mystic properties of an intelligent undead being.

    Light Fortification
    Starting at 17th level, you are resistant to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage by non-magical weapons, as well as poison, cold and lightning damage.

    Dread Rebirth: Lich Transformation
    When you hit 20th level, you take the penultimate step towards becoming Undead. You no longer age, no longer need to eat, drink, breathe, or sleep (but still must rest to regain spells), and become immune to poison and exhaustion. While you don't have one automatically, you may attempt to create a lich's phylactery, with all of the difficulties and benefits that entails; the requirements are largely left to the DM. Until you actually create a phylactery, you don't actually count as Undead for the purpose of spells and effects targeting them (or being unable to), however.


    Energy Harnessing
    While negative energy is so often put into the form of spells, undead alterations, and the manipulation of unliving entities, it's also an incredibly potent tool in its pure form, and many Dread Necromancers realize that fact. They learn to manipulate the flow of necrotic energy, eventually completely mastering it.
    Spoiler: Energy Harnessing Improvements
    Show

    Charnel Touch
    The most basic way to manipulate the negative energy within you is to simply let it flow from your touch. At 2nd level, as an action, you may make a touch attack on a target, using your spell attack bonus instead of your melee attack bonus. This does 1d8 necrotic damage, +1 per class level. Once per long rest, you may improve this to 1d8 + 1d8 per two class levels by also using a bonus action.

    Channel Negative Energy: Negative Energy Burst
    At 6th level, you can use Channel Negative energy to, rather than manipulating undead, simply let necrotic energy flow from yourself into your surroundings. Every living creature within 30 feet of yourself (besides yourself) must make a Constitution save. Any that fail take 1d6 necrotic energy damage per class level you have.

    Tomb Tainted Soul
    Beginning at 10th level, you begin to rely on negative energy to fuel your body. Any time you would take necrotic energy damage, you are instead healed by the same amount. However, cure spells and effects no longer affect you. You may use your Charnel Touch on yourself once per short rest, and when you use Negative Energy Burst you may include yourself as a target.

    Enervating Touch
    At 14th level, once per short rest, when using your Charnel Touch, you can use a bonus action to force the target to make a Constitution save against your spell save DC. If they fail, their Maximum Hitpoints are lowered by the amount of Necrotic damage taken, until they take a long rest. If their maximum hitpoints are lowered to 0 (or less) by this ability, they crumble to dust as all living energy is drained from their forms.

    Font of Negative Energy
    At 17th level, you become entirely immune to your maximum hitpoints being lowered. In addition, you gain two additional uses of Channel Negative Energy per rest.

    Dread Rebirth: Draining Necrosis
    When you reach 20th level, you become a true master of negative energy, learning to not only channel it within yourself, but to more finely manipulate it when you channel it into someone else. Once per long rest, when you deal necrotic energy damage from any source to someone, you may choose to regain an equal number of hitpoints to the damage dealt.


    Dread Necromancer Spells
    Spoiler: Dread Necromancer Spell List
    Show

    Cantrips (0 level)
    Chill Touch
    Dancing Lights
    Friends
    Mage Hand
    Message
    Poison Spray
    Ray of Frost
    Thaumaturgy
    True Strike

    1st Level
    Bane
    Comprehend Languages
    Detect Evil and Good
    Detect Magic
    Disguise Self
    False Life
    Fog Cloud
    Illusory Script
    Inflict Wounds
    Mage Armor
    Protection from Evil and Good
    Ray of Sickness
    Sleep

    2nd Level
    Blindness/Deafness
    Blur
    Darkness
    Darkvision
    Gentle Repose
    Hold Person
    Invisibility
    Misty Step
    Nystul's Magic Aura
    Phantasmal Force
    Ray of Enfeeblement
    See Invisibility
    Shatter

    3rd Level
    Animate Dead
    Bestow Curse
    Counterspell
    Dispel Magic
    Fear
    Feign Death
    Gaseous Form
    Leomund's Tiny Hut
    Magic Circle
    Nondetection
    Phantom Steed
    Protection from Energy
    Remove Curse
    Slow
    Speak with Dead
    Vampiric Touch
    Water Breathing

    4th Level
    Banishment
    Blight
    Confusion
    Death Ward
    Dimension Door
    Evard's Black Tentacles
    Greater Invsibility
    Leomund's Secret Chest
    Mordenkainen's Private Sanctum
    Phantasmal Killer

    5th Level
    Cloudkill
    Cone of Cold
    Contact Other Plane
    Contagion
    Creation
    Dream
    Geas
    Hold Monster
    Insect Plague
    Legend Lore
    Mislead
    Planar Binding

    6th Level
    Circle of Death
    Create Undead
    Disintegrate
    Drawmij's Instant Summons
    Eyebite
    Globe of Invulnerability
    Magic Jar
    True Seeing

    7th Level
    Etherealness
    Finger of Death
    Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion
    Plane Shift
    Sequester
    Symbol
    Teleport

    8th Level
    Antipathy/Sympathy
    Clone
    Demiplane
    Feeblemind
    Mind Blank
    Power Word Stun
    Trap the Soul

    9th Level
    Astral Projection
    Foresight
    Gate
    Imprisonment
    Power Word Kill
    Weird
    Last edited by Falco1029; 2015-10-04 at 05:08 PM.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Dread Necromancer remake [PEACH]

    Spoiler: Changes
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    Made some minor typo fixes - 11/19/2014
    Changed the wording of Lich transformation to prevent some problems with being 'undead', changed Intelligence save to wisdom - 10/4/2015
    Last edited by Falco1029; 2015-10-04 at 05:09 PM.

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    Colossus in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Dread Necromancer remake [PEACH]

    I'm curious as to why Dread rebirth, the capstone, is referred to as penultimate and not ultimate.

    It's the last and most potent ability, which makes it the ultimate.
    I also answer to Bookmark and Shadow Claw.

    Read my fanfiction here. Homebrew Material Here Rater Reads the Hobbit and Dracula
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    Spoiler: Ode To Meteors, By zimmerwald
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    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    Meteor
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    Way down the air
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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Dread Necromancer remake [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    I'm curious as to why Dread rebirth, the capstone, is referred to as penultimate and not ultimate.

    It's the last and most potent ability, which makes it the ultimate.
    Because I originally had it at level 19 in my first draft and then changed it to better follow the capstone tendencies. I'll tweak the wording.

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    Pixie in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: Dread Necromancer remake [PEACH]

    Hmm, wonderful concept. I'll have to keep an eye on this, and return after the DMG comes out. Great work friend!
    Necromancy is not blasphemous desecration, but eco-friendly recycling. Get with the times and help nature by stopping body landfills, and stop global warming by cutting back on cremation . Go green and donate your corpse today!

    **I do not have a lot of points in my 'spelling' skill... please pardon my low rolls**

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Dread Necromancer remake [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by flyenemu View Post
    Hmm, wonderful concept. I'll have to keep an eye on this, and return after the DMG comes out. Great work friend!
    Yeah I planned to tweak it again after the DMG comes out, if it gives any advice or other useful mechanics.

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    Pixie in the Playground
     
    DrowGuy

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    Default Re: Dread Necromancer remake [PEACH]

    I'm actually running this 5e import of yours in a friend's Out of the Abyss campaign, and it's been going pretty well so far. Kudos to you for making it! That being said, my DM and I had some questions regrading the capstone for the Lich Transformation path. You make it clear the PC doesn't become a full lich, but rather "something like a lich". The descriptor of the capstone seems to be in a similar vein:

    "You no longer age, no longer need to eat, drink, breathe, or sleep (but still must rest to regain spells), and become immune to poison and exhaustion."

    Ok, pretty straightforward. So you become like a full undead, but otherwise get to keep playing your usual PC mechanics. Cleric can Revivify you if you drop, death saves at 0 HP, magical healing. The issue is that the description isn't phrased '*like* a fully Undead'; it says: "you become fully Undead"

    That seems to imply a different mechanic altogether, and not one 5e appears equipped to deal with. There are tons of detrimental rules for true Undead in 5e (no way to heal, for instance), and a lot pf beneficial spells that don't function on them. It creates a serious mechanical problem. :/

    As far as my DM and I can figure, by 'become fully undead', you mean the PC gains the select undead traits you describe, but otherwise is treated as a normal creature for the purposes of spells and other mechanics. It's an interpretation that works for us, but all the same, I was wondering how the creator envisioned it.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Dread Necromancer remake [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by 0oMooncalfo0 View Post
    I'm actually running this 5e import of yours in a friend's Out of the Abyss campaign, and it's been going pretty well so far. Kudos to you for making it! That being said, my DM and I had some questions regrading the capstone for the Lich Transformation path. You make it clear the PC doesn't become a full lich, but rather "something like a lich". The descriptor of the capstone seems to be in a similar vein:

    "You no longer age, no longer need to eat, drink, breathe, or sleep (but still must rest to regain spells), and become immune to poison and exhaustion."

    Ok, pretty straightforward. So you become like a full undead, but otherwise get to keep playing your usual PC mechanics. Cleric can Revivify you if you drop, death saves at 0 HP, magical healing. The issue is that the description isn't phrased '*like* a fully Undead'; it says: "you become fully Undead"

    That seems to imply a different mechanic altogether, and not one 5e appears equipped to deal with. There are tons of detrimental rules for true Undead in 5e (no way to heal, for instance), and a lot pf beneficial spells that don't function on them. It creates a serious mechanical problem. :/

    As far as my DM and I can figure, by 'become fully undead', you mean the PC gains the select undead traits you describe, but otherwise is treated as a normal creature for the purposes of spells and other mechanics. It's an interpretation that works for us, but all the same, I was wondering how the creator envisioned it.
    Hmm, I hadn't actually considered that, since Undead don't have an inherent way to heal or revive. I think what this was (this was a bit back, and I'm silly and don't keep design notes you don't already see here), was that I was expecting the dungeonmaster's guide to cover things like playing undead, and they'd inherently have options.

    So what I'm going to tweak it to make it so it specifically says that they don't count as Undead for the sake of spells unless they do go the route of making a phylactery (since having one covers the whole 'can't be revived' thing).

    EDIT: And thanks for the Kudos!
    Last edited by Falco1029; 2015-10-04 at 04:30 PM.

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    Default Re: Dread Necromancer remake [PEACH]

    It should probably have a good save, as per the standard design philosophy. I'd recommend changing it to be proficient in Wisdom and Charisma. The class specific capstones also refer to them as penultimate, rather than ultimate.

    Otherwise, I rather like it.
    Last edited by TheTeaMustFlow; 2015-10-04 at 04:57 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby Frost
    `This is just the beginning, Citizens! Today we have boiled a pot who's steam shall be seen across the entire galaxy. The Tea Must Flow, and it shall! The banner of the British Space Empire will be unfurled across a thousand worlds, carried forth by the citizens of Urn, and before them the Tea shall flow like a steaming brown river of shi-*cough*- shimmering moral fibre!`

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Dread Necromancer remake [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTeaMustFlow View Post
    It should probably have a good save, as per the standard design philosophy. I'd recommend changing it to be proficient in Wisdom and Charisma. The class specific capstones also refer to them as penultimate, rather than ultimate.

    Otherwise, I rather like it.
    Changed Intelligence save to Wisdom, good call, hadn't really thought about the good versus poor save thing.

    I changed one to final instead of penultimate (old habit I need to break), but the one in lich transformation is meant to be penultimate, as they still need to make a phylactery to 'truly' change.

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    DrowGuy

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    Default Re: Dread Necromancer remake [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Falco1029 View Post
    Changed Intelligence save to Wisdom, good call, hadn't really thought about the good versus poor save thing.
    ;___; God bless you. The lack of good save has been the only thing giving me issue so far.

    I'm personally surprised the DMG didn't cover more on undead as well, but the errata is much appreciated. Personally, I'm planning on abusing Clone instead of crafting the phylactery, so that'll be a big help.

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    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Dread Necromancer remake [PEACH]

    I enjoy this idea, specially the negative channeling! Although isn't the negative channel worded a bit weird? Can't you just reword it to half your level?

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Dread Necromancer remake [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Pyon View Post
    I enjoy this idea, specially the negative channeling! Although isn't the negative channel worded a bit weird? Can't you just reword it to half your level?
    I'm not sure I get what you mean? In reference to what part of it?

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    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Dread Necromancer remake [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Falco1029 View Post
    I'm not sure I get what you mean? In reference to what part of it?
    This part:

    "Once per long rest, you may improve this to 1d8 + 1d8 per two class levels by also using a bonus action."

    Wouldn't it be easier (and more consistent) to write:

    "Once per long rest, you may improve this to 1d8+ xd8 with x being equal to half your levels in this class, using a bonus action."

    I know it's a mouthful but "per two class levels" really implies something different is going on. Unless it does mean something else, and I'm an idiot.

    Either way a vampire grappler with this class would be awesome to bite and then energy drain!

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Dread Necromancer remake [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Pyon View Post
    This part:

    "Once per long rest, you may improve this to 1d8 + 1d8 per two class levels by also using a bonus action."

    Wouldn't it be easier (and more consistent) to write:

    "Once per long rest, you may improve this to 1d8+ xd8 with x being equal to half your levels in this class, using a bonus action."

    I know it's a mouthful but "per two class levels" really implies something different is going on. Unless it does mean something else, and I'm an idiot.

    Either way a vampire grappler with this class would be awesome to bite and then energy drain!
    Ah, you meant in charnel touch, I thought you meant in the basic channel negative energy part. But anyway, per two class levels is fairly common wording, I think, at least it used to be. It makes it so you don't need to deal with rounding; you get the extra d8 on the second/even class level.

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    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Dread Necromancer remake [PEACH]

    Seems pretty cool however with your Lich Transformation when you hit level 17 and get Light Fortification does that not negate your Undead Resilience entirely? I didn't see any other use for the Channel Negative Energy so...

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    Default Re: Dread Necromancer remake [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Crusadr View Post
    Seems pretty cool however with your Lich Transformation when you hit level 17 and get Light Fortification does that not negate your Undead Resilience entirely? I didn't see any other use for the Channel Negative Energy so...
    1) Every Dread Necro has turn undead for Channel Negative Energy
    2) Light fortification specifically says that it's for non-magical b/s/p damage, whereas Undead Resilience would work on magical sources.

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    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Dread Necromancer remake [PEACH]

    1) Every Dread Necro has turn undead for Channel Negative Energy
    2) Light fortification specifically says that it's for non-magical b/s/p damage, whereas Undead Resilience would work on magical sources.
    Oh right, my bad on missing that. Seems pretty solid then

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    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Dread Necromancer remake [PEACH]

    Wheres the fear aura? And all of the fear (thus dread)

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    Default Re: Dread Necromancer remake [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ex0dus_Begins View Post
    Wheres the fear aura? And all of the fear (thus dread)

    Though I suppose thread necromancy is rather apropos here, really.
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby Frost
    `This is just the beginning, Citizens! Today we have boiled a pot who's steam shall be seen across the entire galaxy. The Tea Must Flow, and it shall! The banner of the British Space Empire will be unfurled across a thousand worlds, carried forth by the citizens of Urn, and before them the Tea shall flow like a steaming brown river of shi-*cough*- shimmering moral fibre!`

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    Default Re: Dread Necromancer remake [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ex0dus_Begins View Post
    Wheres the fear aura? And all of the fear (thus dread)
    Fear is on the spell list.
    Spoiler: Quotes in the Playground!
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    Welcome to the Dark Side. We have scented hand towels.
    I thought you were supposed to have cookies. I was promised cookies.
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    Speaking as a necromancer, I just don't get why people can't leave a guy to raise a family in peace.

    And they get all offended when I take some commonly-given advice and go out to make new friends.





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