Whoa... wilders?

[Kantolin]

Is there something I am missing about Wilders, or do they simply suck?

Perhaps a prestige class? Maybe their improvement of hit dice and BAB makes them more useful than psions?

Anything? O-o Feats? Eleven powers known at level 20?

[Yuki Akuma]

The boost to attack rolls, the fact that they can augment without spending as many power points as the psion, and the fact that they can increase their manifester level...

That's really the only good thing about them. They can be better blasters than psions, but then they can't really do anything else. Unless they have a friendly neibourhood psion with Psychic Chirugery...

[martyboy74]

And are willing to spring for said thought bottles. Also, don't forget that using their wild surge screws 'em over for a couple rounds afterwards.

\/ I was referring to enervation, but my memory wasn't quite right about the other effect.

[Yuki Akuma]

And are willing to spring for said thought bottles. Also, don't forget that using their wild surge screws 'em over for a couple rounds after wards.

No, it doesn't. It helps them for a couple rounds afterwards. UNless they get unlucky and suffer from psychic enervation...

[Who]

Wilders suck, they just plain suck. I have found no reason to play a wilder over say a psion.

[Saithis Bladewing]

The problem with Wilders is that you have NO powers to choose from. It's stupid. I'd love to play a Wilder for the flavour but I'd rather play a chaotic psion.

[storybookknight]

Wilders are useful DM tools if you feel like statting up a dangerous psionic NPC but don't feel like picking 40 different powers when really, all they're going to be doing is setting the players on fire.

[Jasdoif]

Since everyone else has covered Wild Surge and the related class abilities....


Elude Touch can be nice, if you wear armor and have a good Cha bonus (like every Cha-manifester should). Pushing your touch AC up to as high as your standard AC could be quite handy against those no-save ranged-touch attacks.

Volatile Mind sucks, sadly. In concept it's great, make people pay for using mind-affecting effects on you, but the fact that it only works against powers and that it only makes them pay a few extra power points...it's pretty much worthless. If it had a consistent chance of causing failure, it'd be a lot better. (Personally, I ask the DM if I can get another power known instead of Volatile Mind at the appropriate levels.)


If you can get around the limit of powers known (someone mentioned psychic chirurgery already) and cope with getting your next level of powers a level later (which ceases being at issue at 18th level), those bonus feats are all a psion has ahead of you in terms of manifesting capabilities. The two classes have the same power points per day.

[Aquillion]

Volatile Mind sucks, sadly. In concept it's great, make people pay for using mind-affecting effects on you, but the fact that it only works against powers and that it only makes them pay a few extra power points...it's pretty much worthless. If it had a consistent chance of causing failure, it'd be a lot better. (Personally, I ask the DM if I can get another power known instead of Volatile Mind at the appropriate levels.)

The other big problem is that it doesn't work with magic / psionic transparency--the rules don't give any way to extend it to protect you against mind-affecting spells at all, and it really should. Unless you're running some kind of extremely psi-itensive campaign, it's just not that likely to come up too often. Combine that with the fact that some psionic prestige classes get abilities that make them totally immune to all mind-related effects whenever you want to be, and Wilders start to look more than a little subpar.

Really, it just reenforces the idea that Wilders are really intended to be an NPC class used against psionic PCs...

[Mewtarthio]

The other big problem is that it doesn't work with magic / psionic transparency--the rules don't give any way to extend it to protect you against mind-affecting spells at all, and it really should. Unless you're running some kind of extremely psi-itensive campaign, it's just not that likely to come up too often. Combine that with the fact that some psionic prestige classes get abilities that make them totally immune to all mind-related effects whenever you want to be, and Wilders start to look more than a little subpar.

Really, it just reenforces the idea that Wilders are really intended to be an NPC class used against psionic PCs...

Note that the power actually fails if it's been augmented high enough (or actually costs enough) that the power points expended go above the normal maximum--so a twentieth-level psion who manifests Mind Thrust fully augmented against a target that he doesn't know is a Wilder simply wastes those points. It also wouldn't be unfair to reduce the caster level of Enchantment spells by an amount equal to the Wilder's Volatile Mind level. Still not exactly spectacular, but better than nothing.

[Aquillion]

What would really be more interesting would be to change it to an ability that makes anyone who uses a mind-affecting ability on a Wilder subject to some sort of automatic defensive mental attack, one that deals damage and ruins whatever effect was being used on the wilder unless some sort of save is made. The wilder's mind 'lashes out' at anyone else's who comes into contact with it... That'd be more thematic, at least.

[martyboy74]

What would really be more interesting would be to change it to an ability that makes anyone who uses a mind-affecting ability on a Wilder subject to some sort of automatic defensive mental attack, one that deals damage and ruins whatever effect was being used on the wilder unless some sort of save is made. The wilder's mind 'lashes out' at anyone else's who comes into contact with it... That'd be more thematic, at least.

What? "You don't understand me! No one understands me! Angsty angsty ansgty ansgt!"

[ExHunterEmerald]

What? "You don't understand me! No one understands me! Angsty angsty ansgty ansgt!"

More like confusion, fear, and a "GET OUT OF MY HEAD!" sort of deal.

[Fizban]

Scroll down the the Educated Wilder ability in this link. It replaces the volatile mind ability with the expanded knowledge feat at each level you would gain it.

[Orzel]

Wilders are great for NPCs, players new to psionics and when you want to make a blaster or cleric-like buffwarrior. But other than that, they stink.

Replacing Volite Mind for a Expanded Knowledge, psionic feats, or something is a must.

[Starsinger]

Volatile mind is more of a flavor ability like Thousand Faces, Trackless Step, or Tongue of the Sun and Moon, isn't it?
But, Wilders can be useful in Gestalt games, covering blasting and thus allowing your second class to be something else, like battlefield control, skill monkey, or whatever.

[Jasdoif]

Note that the power actually fails if it's been augmented high enough (or actually costs enough) that the power points expended go above the normal maximum--so a twentieth-level psion who manifests Mind Thrust fully augmented against a target that he doesn't know is a Wilder simply wastes those points.

While that would be nice, Volatile Mind explicitly states the extra cost can go above the usual limit on power points spent on a power.

What would really be more interesting would be to change it to an ability that makes anyone who uses a mind-affecting ability on a Wilder subject to some sort of automatic defensive mental attack, one that deals damage and ruins whatever effect was being used on the wilder unless some sort of save is made. The wilder's mind 'lashes out' at anyone else's who comes into contact with it... That'd be more thematic, at least.

That's the kind of thing I was thinking of...would work with telepathy powers or enchantment spells (or either of their equivalents), and instead of causing an extra power point to be consumed, it causes 2d4 unavoidable damage to the source of the effect, who then would have to make a Concentration check (DC 10+damage+effect level) for the effect to actually work. This would even work if the wilder is otherwise unaffected by mind-affecting abilities

OK, so that'd be like a super hostile mind. Isn't that what Volatile Mind should be, anyway?