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    Default [Monster] Jägermonsters! Monster for Mad Science!

    An attempt to stat the jägerkin from Phil Foglio's Girl Genius!

    Jägerkin
    Jägerkin
    Jägerkin
    Medium Monstrous Humanoid [Augmented Humanoid] (Jägerkin)
    Hit Dice: 2d8+8 (20 hp)
    Initiative: +1
    Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares)
    Armor Class: 16 (+3 studded leather armor, +1 dexterity, +2 natural armor), touch 11, flat-footed 15
    Base Attack/Grapple: +2/+6
    Attack: Longsword +6 melee (1d8+6/19–20), claw +6 melee (1d4+4), or javelin +3 ranged (1d6+4)
    Full Attack: Longsword +6 melee (1d8+6/19–20), 2 claws +2/-2 (1d4+4 and 1d4+2), or javelin +1 ranged (1d6+4)
    Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
    Attack Options: Power Attack
    Special Qualities: low-light vision, Jägernose
    Saves: Fort +7, Ref +1, Will +3
    Abilities: Str 19, Dex 13, Con 18, Int 8, Wis 10, Cha 8
    Skills: Intimidate -1/+4*, Listen+1, Spot +1
    *Jägerkin benefit from their reputations when using Intimidate, and apply their Strength bonus instead of Charisma bonus to Intimidate checks against creatures that understand what they are
    Feats: Power Attack
    Environment: Any
    Organization: Solitary, pair, team (3–4), strike team (5–8), squad (11–20 plus 2 3rd-level sergeants and 1 leader of 3rd–6th level), or contingent (30–100 plus 1 3rd-level sergeant per 10 adults, 5 5th-level lieutenants, and 3 7th-level captains)
    Challenge Rating: X (under calculation)
    Treasure: Standard
    Alignment: Usually LN (still under discussion)
    Advancement: 4HD (Medium) and/or By character class
    Level Adjustment: +X (under consideration and discussion)

    Jägerkin are Spark Constructs, humans who have taken the Jägerdrought and have been transformed. Jägerkin are usually green of skin and dark black, brown, or purple hair, but their skin tones vary from a pale tan to orcish green to an unassuming purple and fair hair is not unheard of on lighter jägerkin. Jägerkin have sharp, fanglike teeth, slightly pointed ears, and have short, sharp claws. Jägerkin prefer wearing clothing that is simple and serviceable. Usually, they are in uniform, but those on assignment or in wilder areas will dress in a striking style they have taken a preference to. Their equipment is clean and well kept. They are obviously hardy, but vary in height and weight as humans do.
    Jägerkin speak a heavily accented Common.
    Jägerkin relish combat and tests of physical prowess, seeking out opportunities to put their abilities to good use. While jägerkin are fierce combatants, they are just as fiercely loyal to each other and to the Heterodyne family. Jägerkin will follow orders of a Heterodyne, however much they disagree with those orders, and have a strong sense of honor and brotherhood. Jägerkin are colloquially known as Jägermonsters. Despite their ferocious reputation and love of battle, jägerkin can (and enthusiastically do) mate with humans. The offspring of such a union is always a normal human.
    COMBAT
    Jägerkin are proficient with all simple weapons, light armor, and two martial weapons, as jägerkin always begin “life” after their creation as hardy warriors. When a jägerkin receives training, they often become members of the fighter class, but jägerkin with barbarian and ranger class levels are not unheard of. Jaegerkin who are on long assignment, especially in wilderness areas, are far more likely to have ranger or barbarian levels, and also advance racially. While jägerkin tend to favor light or no armor and to not use shields because of their predilection to favor mobility, they will use heavier armor and shields if their orders call for it. Jägerkin take to combat with abandon, and while they will not do anything overtly suicidal unless they believe doing so serves the good of the Heterodynes, they are willing to take risks and like to show off their abilities.
    Jägernose: Jägerkin have a keen sense of smell, and gain the scent ability because of it. This functions in all ways like normal scent, but a jägerkin also has the ability to identify individuals it has previously encountered as well as a person’s major bloodline. A jägerkin who takes a standard action to smell an individual and is able to identify them if they have previously met by making a Survival check, DC 10. If that individual is directly related or a descendant of someone the jägerkin has met, the jägerkin can identify the family line as well, at a DC of 15. Jägerkin receive a +2 bonus on such checks, and are able to take 10 by using a full round action.
    -When a jägerkin uses the Intimidate skill on a target that recognizes the jägerkin as such, it is modified by Strength instead of Charisma. The reputation of jägerkin precedes them across the land.
    Advancement: When a jägerkin advances its racial Hit Die by 1, it may remove its racial -2 penalty to either Wisdom or Intelligence. Jägerkin that advance their HD are beyond normal even for their own kind, and have had to survive by developing their intellect and intuition.

    JÄGERKIN AS CHARACTERS
    Jägerkin Traits (Ex): Jägerkin possess the following racial traits.
    —+4 Strength, +4 Constitution, Intelligence –2, Wisdom -2. Jägerkin are physically capable, being far stronger and tougher than a normal human. However, jägerkin typically lack foresight and planning abilities, causing them to be rash and often acting without thinking of the consequences first.
    —+2 Natural Armor. Jägerkin have extremely resilient skin that resists blows.
    —A jägerkin’s base land speed is 30 feet.
    —Jägerkin get a +2 racial bonus to Listen and Spot checks.
    —Low-light vision.
    —Jägernose: Jägerkin have the scent ability, as well as keen powers of identification using it. This ability to identify individuals allows a jägerkin to take a standard action to make a Survival check against DC 10. Jägerkin receive a +2 bonus to this check.
    — Jägerkin are proficient with light armor, simple weapons, and any two martial weapons.
    — Jägerkin have natural claws that deal 1d4 damage and can be used as natural weapons.
    —Automatic Languages: Common.
    —Favored Class: Fighter.
    —Level Adjustment: +X
    The jägerkin presented here had the following ability scores before racial adjustments (elite array): Str 15, Dex 13, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 8.


    ----------------------------------------------

    Let me know what you think! If you think something is out of place, something should be added, something should be tweaked, let me know and post your opinions!
    Last edited by NemoUtopia; 2007-04-04 at 03:30 PM. Reason: added Augmented Humanoid subtype per Nathrak's awesome suggestion
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    Default Re: [Monster] Jägermonsters! Monster for Mad Science!

    Ummm... You might want to at least mention that you made this from the Jägerkin in Girl Genius, by Phil Foglio. Credit is always a good thing.

    Not that I don't appreciate the stats. Unfortunately, I don't see myself playing or running a steam-punk game that I can use them in.
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    Default Re: [Monster] Jägermonsters! Monster for Mad Science!

    You might want to note that jägermonsters have the ability to interbreed with humans, and produce viable _human_ offspring.

    Also, it's a bit powerful for LA+1, don't you think? -4 on the mental ability scores does not weigh out +10 on the physical. Also, it has very nice senses... low-light vision, darkvision, _and_ scent. Instead of Alertness, why not just give them a racial bonus on Listen and Spot?

    Anyway, I think it's roughly LA +2, not +1. It has a lot going for it.

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    Default Re: [Monster] Jägermonsters! Monster for Mad Science!

    Quote Originally Posted by Danu View Post
    You might want to note that jägermonsters have the ability to interbreed with humans, and produce viable _human_ offspring.

    Also, it's a bit powerful for LA+1, don't you think? -4 on the mental ability scores does not weigh out +10 on the physical. Also, it has very nice senses... low-light vision, darkvision, _and_ scent. Instead of Alertness, why not just give them a racial bonus on Listen and Spot?

    Anyway, I think it's roughly LA +2, not +1. It has a lot going for it.
    This was part of my concern, and I'm definitely considering dropping the Str and Con bonuses to just +2. Actually, Darkvision is an accident, they're not supposed to have it last I checked...so let's see what I can fix up there.
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    Default Re: [Monster] Jägermonsters! Monster for Mad Science!

    Jägerkin are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, as jägerkin always begin life as members of the warrior class.
    All Jägerkin take their first level as warrior?
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    Default Re: [Monster] Jägermonsters! Monster for Mad Science!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyace View Post
    All Jägerkin take their first level as warrior?
    Jägerkin are created to be warriors, and while the better trained ones take PC classes, the base would be warriors, with no exceptions that come to mind.
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    Default Re: [Monster] Jägermonsters! Monster for Mad Science!

    I just started reading "Girl Genius" a couple days ago, and am not up to current, but I'd put them considerably higher.

    Monstrous Humanoid, 4 Racial HD, +10 Str, + 4 dex, + 10 Con, -4 int, - 2 wis, - 4 cha. Speed 30, Low light vision only (unlike other Mon Humanoid's), Claw (1d4), Bite (1d4), Natural armor +4, Rend (2d4 +1-1/2str), Fast healing 3, scent. Proficent with Light and medium armor, and all martial weapons (Due to their marial up bringing) LA + 4

    I pretty much just tonned down the Troll stats into a more manigable PC race, but with a lower LA, Less HD, Lower stats, Fast healing 3 instead of regeneration 5.


    Jaggermonsters seem VERY tough to me so far in the story, and they warrent a much higher LA and some racial HD. I just don't see them as a LA 1 or 2 race, and I would be sceptical of even a LA 3 race.
    Last edited by nows7; 2007-03-25 at 10:52 AM. Reason: helps to spell Monstrous Right.

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    Default Re: [Monster] Jägermonsters! Monster for Mad Science!

    I'd probably give Jägerkin lower wisdom. They're decently intelligent, it's just that nobody really credits them as being very smart and a lot of times they're not expected to act otherwise. (The three Jäger brothers deliberately used this to seem innocuous.)

    It seems most of their supposed stupidity just really stems from a lack of foresight and a lot of overeagerness to smash things and fight.

    They are also monstrously strong enough to lift wooden carts up onto a shoulder. And they're literally able to hang from a noose for days on end without much discomfort.
    Last edited by LurkerInPlayground; 2007-03-25 at 01:21 PM.

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    Default Re: [Monster] Jägermonsters! Monster for Mad Science!

    Quote Originally Posted by LurkerInPlayground View Post
    I'd probably give Jägerkin lower wisdom. They're decently intelligent, it's just that nobody really credits them as being very smart and a lot of times they're not expected to act otherwise. (The three Jäger brothers deliberately used this to seem innocuous.)

    It seems most of their supposed stupidity just really stems from a lack of foresight and a lot of overeagerness to smash things and fight.

    They are also monstrously strong enough to lift wooden carts up onto a shoulder. And they're literally able to hang from a noose for days on end without much discomfort.
    Payne: They're still alive?!
    Lars: They've been strung up for two days! They just aren't dying!
    Payne: But - traditionally they're supposed to be cut down.
    Lars: Not likely. The mayor's got a pool bet going.

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    Default Re: [Monster] Jägermonsters! Monster for Mad Science!

    Quote Originally Posted by LurkerInPlayground View Post
    Payne: They're still alive?!
    Lars: They've been strung up for two days! They just aren't dying!
    Payne: But - traditionally they're supposed to be cut down.
    Lars: Not likely. The mayor's got a pool bet going.

    Like I said, definetly not a LA +1 race.

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    Default Re: [Monster] Jägermonsters! Monster for Mad Science!

    I'm not quite sure where the +2 dex comes from...not that Jagerkin seem especially clumsy, but they don't seem especially dextrous, either.

    Also, the alignment strikes me as...questionable. Most of the Jaegers are pretty bloodthirsty, aren't they? I know, the three who we've seen a lot of recently are exceptions, but shouldn't they be "usually" or "often" CE? (Even these three, though certainly not evil, seem more chaotic than lawful. And, though Jaegers in general are supposed to be engineered as a military force, they're...not exactly a well-organized one, are they? I mean, the leaders tend to be the biggest, most bullying ones, and their underlings' respect for them seems to fade pretty much as soon as they leave the room.)
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    Default Re: [Monster] Jägermonsters! Monster for Mad Science!

    A lot of considerations indeed...and I had forgotten about the shouldering a cart level of Str. I'll have to dig in and do a harder re-work, and I'll get back to you guys! Also, I had made them LN because despite their eagerness for battle and such, they DO follow orders essentially unquestioned (but only from those deemed above them), and while they don't go out of their way to be non-lethal unless instructed, they don't just go out and attack the peasantry unless instructed.
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    Default Re: [Monster] Jägermonsters! Monster for Mad Science!

    Quote Originally Posted by belboz View Post
    I'm not quite sure where the +2 dex comes from...not that Jagerkin seem especially clumsy, but they don't seem especially dextrous, either.

    Also, the alignment strikes me as...questionable. Most of the Jaegers are pretty bloodthirsty, aren't they? I know, the three who we've seen a lot of recently are exceptions, but shouldn't they be "usually" or "often" CE? (Even these three, though certainly not evil, seem more chaotic than lawful. And, though Jaegers in general are supposed to be engineered as a military force, they're...not exactly a well-organized one, are they? I mean, the leaders tend to be the biggest, most bullying ones, and their underlings' respect for them seems to fade pretty much as soon as they leave the room.)
    Well, they don't really rule by brute force, just the opposite, they're extremely loyal to one another and respectful to their own generals. Sure, they fight one another, but if getting thrashed by Von Pinn is romantically desirable, then internecine fighting is not more than a brotherly tussle. When the generals start fighting, that's just to them, a "lively discussion." Fighting is just what they do and enjoy. They even get really weepy when they're seperated from other Jägerkin in exile, as demonstrated by the Jäger-rangers. So they've got a real pack mentality.

    As for whether they happen to be evil, that largely depends on who their master happens to be. The Heterodynes that came before the brothers were pillaging marauders. Then the brothers were themselves adventuring heroes who reversed the Heterodyne reputation. Now Wulfenbach uses them as an instrument of order and (relative) stability.

    I'd say CN is a fairly good middle-of-the-road guess of their nature. If they're ordered to fight, it doesn't matter if they're fighting for the sake of pillaging, heroism or for the tyrannic lesser-evil of the Wulfenbach Empire. Certainly they enjoy fighting, but the moral consequences of fighting are utterly lost on them. Fighting just isn't "evil" to them, it's as natural as breathing, it's what they were built to do. They just fight regardless of whatever moral interpretation you put to it. It's their thing.

    If they lose an arm, they can get it sown back on. A few bumps and bruises, a dirigible in flames...what's the difference? They are constructs after all and they don't share the same psychology as humans.

    And when you consider the Europe of the Girl Genius setting, the D&D system is poorly equipped. It's hardly relevant how you label evil in the setting because there really aren't gods, clerics, paladins or alignment-based magic. Mad scientists don't have to worry about alignment requirements to use their "class features," the way paladins do. And they don't have to worry about "Smite Evil" or "Smite Chaos."
    Last edited by LurkerInPlayground; 2007-03-26 at 01:48 AM.

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    Default Re: [Monster] Jägermonsters! Monster for Mad Science!

    Whee! Da Jägers! :3

    On a more serious note, I don't really see this as a "Jäger" template. Perhaps the aftermath of breeding with a human, but not a true Jäger. They are WAY too strong to anything less than CR 6 creatures. However, it is still an excellent execution of a theme. I'm going to have to agree with everyone else, though. This really needs to be a LA +2.

    On a side note, aren't Jägers constructs? I mean, they were technically made...
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    Default Re: [Monster] Jägermonsters! Monster for Mad Science!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarkahn View Post
    Whee! Da Jägers! :3

    On a more serious note, I don't really see this as a "Jäger" template. Perhaps the aftermath of breeding with a human, but not a true Jäger. They are WAY too strong to anything less than CR 6 creatures. However, it is still an excellent execution of a theme. I'm going to have to agree with everyone else, though. This really needs to be a LA +2.

    On a side note, aren't Jägers constructs? I mean, they were technically made...

    Monstrous Humanoid, or Aberration perhaps?

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    Default Re: [Monster] Jägermonsters! Monster for Mad Science!

    Quote Originally Posted by NemoUtopia View Post
    —Jägernose: Jägerkin have the scent ability, as well as keen powers of identification using it.
    I would reterm this ability to something more quantifiable in terms of game mechanics:

    Jagerkin have the Scent ability. In addition, Jagerkin recieve a +2 to Survival checks to track something by scent.

    And to address the concerns about Jagerkin racial HD and LA, perhaps you could give them a racial 'class' advancement, akin to those seen in Savage Species? It definitely seems to me that not all Jager are created equal.

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    Default Re: [Monster] Jägermonsters! Monster for Mad Science!

    There's mention a few strips back of a "Jäger draught." I suspect this means they're alchemically transformed humans, rather than stitched-together constructs... so a template might be in order.
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    Default Re: [Monster] Jägermonsters! Monster for Mad Science!

    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight Lurker View Post
    There's mention a few strips back of a "Jäger draught." I suspect this means they're alchemically transformed humans, rather than stitched-together constructs... so a template might be in order.
    I must have missed that reference...and while a Jäger template does make a bit of sense, as far as I can tell it was only meant to work on humans anyway. And ack, I noticed in my first write-up I had them as "humanoid" instead of "monstrous humanoid" like I had meant to...

    They are not constructs in the sense that D&D defines them...they are essentially genetic engineering + alchemy. Also, I generally think of aberrations as something outside the ken of sane minds (although I will grant that Sparks don't exactly fall under "sane"). I went with (or rather, meant to go with) monstrous humanoid because it seems the most likely progression from human to human-affected-by-science/engineering. Also, from the sense of that I am going to re-stat with at least 2 and possibly as high as 4 racial HD, the monstrous humanoid type grants the things that make the most sense for Jägerkin: fighter attack progression, 2 good saves (although I'd say Fort over Ref), able to gain armor proficiencies without class levels (i'd give them light only, in such a case), and it's easily ruled that they trade the "standard" Darkvision for their type to their other senses. Also, seeing as they can interbreed with humans and produce human offspring, I don't see it making much sense to have them be aberrations or construct (which in D&D is reserved for purely machine or machine/magic hybrids) types. I've got the restatting mostly complete and am checking the number, I'll edit the prime post with it and post when I do so to announce it.
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    Default Re: [Monster] Jägermonsters! Monster for Mad Science!

    Yeah, a D&D construct is closer to a GG "clank" than a GG "construct". The latter are basically magical beast/monstrous humainoid/aberration things. They're alive, for one thing.

    I agree that "monstrous humanoid" is right for these guys, although, say, a hive engine might be more in the "aberration" category.
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    Default Re: [Monster] Jägermonsters! Monster for Mad Science!

    Girl genius has always been a fave of mine. After re-reading the outbreak on the airship thing (slavers and whatnot), I looked at the Jagers fighting and thought about this;

    Wouldn't they get some kind of natural weapon? Because the shock troops seem to use their claws expertly when unable to use their swords and guns; indeed they resort to claws often when in deep melee. It's not an extraordinarily common sight, but when Jagers in GG use their claws they still do plenty of damage.

    EDIT:

    Observe the Jager tearing the head off a slaver with a slash of his hand in this comic:
    http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/cgi-...?date=20061020
    Last edited by NecroPaladin; 2007-03-27 at 11:29 PM.
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    Default Re: [Monster] Jägermonsters! Monster for Mad Science!

    Quote Originally Posted by NemoUtopia View Post
    I must have missed that reference...and while a Jäger template does make a bit of sense, as far as I can tell it was only meant to work on humans anyway. And ack, I noticed in my first write-up I had them as "humanoid" instead of "monstrous humanoid" like I had meant to...
    Here we are... check out the bottom center panel.

    The idea of the Baron as a Jäger croggles the mind...
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    Default Re: [Monster] Jägermonsters! Monster for Mad Science!

    Newest version posted!

    Thanks for all of the input, I definitely feel that this attempt is a much better representation, and would never have been able to get it to where it is without everyone's input. Any and all other input (including repeated input) is welcome! First, I'll start by explaining some of my thought process on this take, and then I'll be more than happy to consider what others have to say, and feel free to critique my thinking (use examples!).

    I started by reworking their Stats...firstly, Jägerkin strike me as needing the elite array to properly represent them, and after applying stats where I deemed most appropriate (high physical, lower mental), I applied bonuses and penalties. The +4 Str/Con bring Jägerkin well into the realm of lifting carts off the ground and throwing them to the side, and surviving things that would kill ordinary men outright. I also applied this logic to their racial hit dice, and giving them a base of 2. I figured that the four famous Jägerkin and the generals had advanced not ONLY in PC classes, but also their own natural talent. So I gave them the ability to advance up to two more racial HD and overcome some of their limitations in the process, since to survive and advance, they'd HAVE to develop mentally. This also tied into the -2 to both Int and Wis: Jägerkin may be a frenchfry short of a happy meal, but they aren't stupid to the point of retarted. They just are brash, eager, and don't always consider consequences.

    After getting that basic bit, I also adjusted their racial saves to be good Fortitude and Will. Jägerkin don't seem to be that adept at avoiding trouble as much as just surviving it from sheer might and spite. I also removed their Darkvision from being Monstrous Humanoids (as Phil has demonstrated they can't see in true darkness), and added their scent and racial sensory bonuses. I've settled on giving them some natural armor for now to go further in representing their sheer fortitude. I'm not sure they deserve true fast healing or regeneration...but I am considering changing the "standard" feat from Power Attack to a feat that allows them to heal regardless of resting, Die Hard, or some similar "tough as nails" feat that isn't toughness (although I may consider one of the more monstrous versions that requires a high Con to get extra HP). After that, it was just reworking the description and stat block to fit the changes.

    So, tell me what you think, critique, and discuss!


    [Edit]
    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight Lurker View Post
    Here we are... check out the bottom center panel.

    The idea of the Baron as a Jäger croggles the mind...
    Ah, that's why I missed it. Still, the baron seems to be a construct or healed from wounds by construct (GG construct) parts, and people seem to know he is a Spark but not an augmented human in his own right. I guess a template could be worked for humans who already have 2 or more PC levels (any others I'd argue would just transfer to base stats presented), but we'll see!

    Quote Originally Posted by NecroPaladin View Post
    ...
    Observe the Jager tearing the head off a slaver with a slash of his hand in this comic:
    http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/cgi-...?date=20061020
    Thanks for the panel and observation, claw attack added!
    [/edit]
    Last edited by NemoUtopia; 2007-03-27 at 11:56 PM.
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    Orc in the Playground
     
    NecroPaladin's Avatar

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    Default Re: [Monster] Jägermonsters! Monster for Mad Science!

    Again, the claws still bug me. If Jägers have claws that can tear an enemy's head clear off its body, then I feel they should be incorporated, even at a penalty for not being used as often as normal weapons.

    Ah, nevermind, you noticed that.
    Last edited by NecroPaladin; 2007-03-27 at 11:51 PM.
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    My Town Characters, pictured left to right:

    State Namesake District Revenant (With Ms. E's Iris) Malleo Morbius Deckard and Dexter
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    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Nathrak's Avatar

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    Lightbulb Type answer from an Outsider

    I think "Monstrous Humanoid (Augmented Humanoid)" should suit everyone's needs.
    How much do Jaegers live (in years)??

    Can we expect a Geisterdame race, or perhaps a Revenant/Enslaved template?

    ((My campaign is already Gaslamp):)
    Last edited by Nathrak; 2007-04-04 at 01:28 PM.
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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    NemoUtopia's Avatar

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    Default Re: [Monster] Jägermonsters! Monster for Mad Science!

    Ooooh. Stop giving me pretties to play with! Added the subtype, per your suggestion, and I'll definitely have a look at Enslaved/Revenant template construction...and maybe others as well. For this week my own spell construction is kind of trumping, but you've got the gears a turnin'...

    On a side note, I noticed that Girl Genius is apparantly coming out with an RPG using the GURPS system...while I wish they'd do a d20, Phil likely made his choice for reason (it's his world, eh?). Not sure what the timeline is however...
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    Pixie in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: [Monster] Jägermonsters! Monster for Mad Science!

    nows7 wrote that Jaegers should get Fast Healing 3
    I kinda agree that they should get at least some kind of fast healing, coz in GG, when they fired a clank gun (the LARGE one), the one at the trigger (Stosh) got smushed in the wall (bent and everything), and came out without a scratch, wondering if his nose is broken.
    Either he was very high level, or Jaegers have some kind of faster healing (Or Racial HD and fast heal).
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    (_ _) Hee... bunny... YAY!
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