A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2
You can get A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2 now at Gumroad
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 80
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Saint Louis
    Gender
    Male

    Default Double Standard Wizard

    Here is what the wizard would look like if we use the same standards for fantasy for it as the developers for 5e did for the fighter... I consider this to be more of a parody, I'm taking it seriously but this entire project parodies the designer's ability to make casters and noncasters.

    The Wizard

    Level Prof. Bonus Features
    1 +2 Spell Caster, Wizard School
    2 +2 Action Surge
    3 +2 Subclass
    4 +2 Ability Score Increase
    5 +3 Extra Magic Attack (1)
    6 +3 Ability Score Increase
    7 +3 Subclass Feature
    8 +3 Ability Score Increase
    9 +4 Arcane Surge (1 Use)
    10 +4 Subclass Feature
    11 +4 Extra Magic Attack (2)
    12 +4 Ability Score Increase
    13 +5 Arcane Surge (2 Uses)
    14 +5 Ability Score Increase
    15 +5 Subclass Feature
    16 +5 Ability Score Increase
    17 +6 Action Surge (2 Uses)
    Arcane Surge (3 Uses)
    18 +6 Subclass Feature
    19 +6 Ability Score Increase
    20 +6 Extra Magic Attack (3)

    HP: 1d8 + Con mod
    Armor & Shields: Light Armor, No Shields
    Weapons: Simple Melee, Crossbows, and Darts.
    Saving Throws: Intelligence and Wisdom
    Skill Profs: As Normal Wizard
    Starting equipment: As normal.

    Spell Caster: You gain 3 attack cantrips from the Wizard spell list that can be used at will. Your cantrips add your intelligence modifier to the damage. Cantrips do not level up based on your level. All cantrips have an attack roll versus AC. 1d20 + Int + Prof is your attack roll. If you roll a one you auto miss if you roll a 20 you crit. Cantrips that offer saves become attack roll cantrips choice of starting cantrips.

    Wizard Schools You must be wielding an Arcane Focus to gain the benefit of your wizard school.

    Spoiler
    Show
    Abjuration: You gain +1 AC.

    Conjuration: Range cantrip attacks deal +2 damage.

    Evocation: Touch or Self cantrip attacks deal +2 damage.

    Necromancy: Your magic sucks additional life from a target. When you roll a 1 on a damage die on a cantrip attack you may roll that die again. You must take the second result even if it is a 1.

    Illusion: When a creature you can see attacks a target other than you within 5' of you, you may use your reaction to cast a small illusion and distract the attacker. The attacker gains disadvantage on the attack roll.

    Duel Caster: When you use Duel Casting you may add your Int modifier to the damage roll of the second cantrip attack.


    Spoiler: Special Rule: Duel Casting
    Show
    When you use a cantrip with a range of "Touch" you may make a second attack as a bonus action with the same cantrip. This damage does not add your Int modifier. The cantrip only deal damage of its type and does not inflict any rider effects.


    Action Surge: As standard ability. Gain two uses at level 13 and a third use at level 17. You may use this ability once per short or long rest.

    Extra Magical Attack: When you use an action to attack with a cantrip or spell you may make one additional attack. At level 11 and 20 you gain a second and third additional magical attack for a total of 4 attacks per action. You must roll each attack seperately.

    Any cabtrips used with extra magic attack only deal damage of its type and does not inflict any rider effects.

    Arcane Surge: Whenever you fail a saving throw you can surge your magical energy allowing you a temporary window to break free. You gain a second saving throw to resist the effect once per long rest. You gain a second use of this ability at level 17.

    Subclass: Arcane Champion

    Spoiler: Arcane Champion Features
    Show
    Devastating Spells (Lv. 3): Your cantrips that deal damage now critical on a roll of 19-20.

    Brainiac (Lv. 7): You add half your proficiency bonus to any Int, Wis, or Cha ability check that doesn't already use your proficiency bonus.

    Additionally when you take the Dash action you may move a number of extra feet equal to your Intelligence modifier.

    Additional Wizard School (Lv. 10): At level 10 you may choose an additional wizard school. You may only benefit from one school for each cantrip you cast.

    Apocalyptic Spells (Lv. 15): Your cantrips that deal damage critical on a roll of 18-20.

    Arcane Regeneration (Lv. 18): On each of your turns if you have 1 HP but no more than half your HP, you regain 5 + Con mod HP at the start of tour turn.


    Subclass: Archmage

    Spoiler: Archmage Class Features
    Show
    Archmage Arcana (Lv. 3): At level three you learn three Archmage Arcana of your choice that you place in your spell book. An Archmage Arcana must be written in your spell book and you must study them to modify your cantrips with them.

    You learn (and place in your spell book) two additional Archmage Arcana at level 7th, 10th, and 15th. Each time you learn a new arcana you may erase and write a new arcana in your spell book. You gain an additional spell slot at level 7 and 15.

    Spell Slots: You gain 4 spell slots to modify your cantrips with. Each spell slot gives you a d8. When you use a Spell Slot your die is expended. You regain any spent spell slots after a short or long rest.

    Saving Throw: When an Archmage Arcana calls for a saving throw the DC is 8 + Int Modifier + Prof. Bonus.

    Mage of War (Lv. 3): At 3rd level you gain proficiency with one set of artisan tools of your choice.

    Knowledge Arcana (Lv. 7): Starting at 7th level you may spend 1 minute to learn the magical properties of any creature you study. You learn the target's Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores. You also lean any magical resistances, magical immunity, and magical vulnerabilities. You also learn total class levels and how many wizard levels (if any) the target has.

    Improve Spell Slots (Lv. 10): At level 10 youl slots dice increase to 1d10 and at level 18 they increase to 1d12.

    Relentless (Lv. 15): When you roll initiative and have no spell slots remaining you gain one spell slot.


    Archmage Arcana
    Spoiler
    Show

    Replace battle master maneuver terms as follows.

    Superiority Dice = Spell Slot

    Weapon attack = cantrip attack
    Range weapon attack = range cantrip attack.

    Saving Throws: 8 + Int Mod + Proficiency Bonus

    I'll rename maneuvers instead of duplicating them here, I'm not changing enough to feel comfortable with posting that much battle master info lol... Next to the names in parentheses is the saving throw type in order to resist an Arcana.

    Commander's Strike = Haste
    Disarming Strike = Knock (Str)
    Distracting Strike = Flare (Wis)
    Evasive Footwork = Expeditious Retreat
    Feinting Attack = Programmed Illusion (Dex)
    Goading Attack = Rage (Wis)
    Lunge = Enlarge
    Maneuvering Attack =
    Menecing Attack = Phantasmal Force (Wis)
    Parry = Shield
    Precision Attack = Magic Missile
    Pushing Attack = Telekinesis (Str or Dex)
    Rally = Heroism
    Riposte =
    Sweeping Attack =
    Trip Attack = Grease (Dex)

    Using a spell slot to modify the cantrip Shocking grasp would give you, and I can't believe I ran into this one on accident, Grease Lightning. This cantrip would shock and drop a target... Ok I need to stop with this now lol.


    More to come

    ====

    Edit 3: So this is all magic can do with the wizard. If you see how limiting this is compared to a normal wizard then you see how people like me view the current fighter in 5e.

    This wizard can be useful, no doubt about it. However, it isn't as interesting or awesome as a normal wizard.

    I'm still working on this and cleaning things up but I'm on the right path now. Not sure what I was thinking when I thought burning hands would be a good idea for this wizard, that is way too good for this ideology.
    Last edited by SpawnOfMorbo; 2014-12-10 at 12:37 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Saint Louis
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Double Standard Wizard

    Inverse Fighter (Warlock Base)

    Proficiencies
    Armor: All Armor and Shields
    Weapons: All
    Tools:

    Saving Throws: Strength and Constitution
    Skills: As Fighter

    Worldy Patron: At first level your patron sends you into the world for you to fulfill your purpose. You have your choice of King, Hermit Master, or Underworld Boss. Your choice grants you features at 1st level and again at 6th, 10th, and 14th level.

    Pact Exploits
    Due to your dedication your patron has bestowed upon you the secrete abilities known to them. The saving throw for your exploits is 8 + Prof Bonus + Str or Dex Modifier.

    Minor Exploits: These exploits are simple and easy to learn and can be used as an action.

    Pact Exploits: You create or learn stronger exploits as you level up. These take a lot out of you and you may only perform so many per short or long rest. You know 2 personal exploits at first level, these exploits are at stage 1. You gain additional personal exploits as you level up. The stage at which you can use these exploits increase as you level up. Refer to the Inverse Fighter table.

    Personal Exploits: As you study your abilities you gain more power. At 2nd level and levels indicated on the inverse fighter table you create a new personal exploit. When you gain a level in Inverse Fighter you may forget one personal exploit and create another.

    Pact Boon: At third level you gain a boon from your patron.

    Chain: Your patron sends you a creature as a minion, slave, or retainer (depending on player choice). Somehow your patron always knows when you need one and if you need a new one. You gain a creature that normally would come from the find familiar spell, or you may receive an imp, pseudo dragon, quasit, or sprite.

    (I'll reword this later)

    Blade: You gain two magic weapons of your choice, one ranged and one melee. These deal 1d10 + Str or Dex modifier force damage. These items work as weapons only for you but they may be used as tools for others (such as to cut rope).

    Tome: Your study has lead you to learn 2 additional minor exploits from an expanded list. Additionally anytime you learn a Pact Exploit you gain 1 additional known exploit.

    ASI: At kevels indicated on the table you gain ASIs.

    Taboo Exploits: These exploits put a huge strain on your body, ecen greater than pact exploits. Due to this danger these abilities have been considered taboo. You must finish a long rest before you nay use a Taboo Exploit again. As you level up you gain new and more powerful taboo exploits.

    Worldly Patrons: Each worldly patron gives you an expanded exploit list. These exploits do not count against your exploit known number. Each patron also gives you abilities as you level.

    King:

    Hermit Master: Hermit's Blessing, Luck of the Master, Hermit' Resilience, Might Throw.

    Mob Boss: Furious Presence, Quick Escape, Uncanny Defense, and Words of Delirium.
    Last edited by SpawnOfMorbo; 2014-12-10 at 12:15 AM.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Banned
     
    SiuiS's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Somewhere south of Hell
    Gender
    Female

    Lightbulb Re: Double Standard Wizard

    Fix the tables/formatting of the first one first. I would like to read this but can't as is, and it will be easier for you to do it now than to fix multiple wizards after the fact.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2013

    Default Re: Double Standard Wizard

    In my opinion, Vancian casting doesn't make sense. I would actually prefer it if casters were built more like martials using cantrips in place of melee attacks. They could also have utility cantrips. They would get more/better cantrips as they level. Spells like wish would exist as rituals with a huge component cost.

    Also, everyone should have access to rituals. Caster classes would natively have access to the rituals on their own list as a class feature. Learning new rituals should require a feat with a stat requirement. There could be half feats that grant you access to a certain class' rituals and bump that class' spell casting stat by 1. There could be a ritual master feat that requires the ability to cast rituals and an int of 12 and wis 12. It gives you access to all rituals.

    The only problem with this is that tome pact warlock becomes de facto the best caster in the game.
    Last edited by bloodshed343; 2014-12-06 at 04:56 PM.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Saint Louis
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Double Standard Wizard

    Quote Originally Posted by SiuiS View Post
    Fix the tables/formatting of the first one first. I would like to read this but can't as is, and it will be easier for you to do it now than to fix multiple wizards after the fact.
    Yeah I did this on word and uploaded it late and didn't fix it yet.


    Quote Originally Posted by bloodshed343 View Post
    In my opinion, Vancian casting doesn't make sense. I would actually prefer it if casters were built more like martials using cantrips in place of melee attacks. They could also have utility cantrips. They would get more/better cantrips as they level. Spells like wish would exist as rituals with a huge component cost.

    Also, everyone should have access to rituals. Caster classes would natively have access to the rituals on their own list as a class feature. Learning new rituals should require a feat with a stat requirement. There could be half feats that grant you access to a certain class' rituals and bump that class' spell casting stat by 1. There could be a ritual master feat that requires the ability to cast rituals and an int of 12 and wis 12. It gives you access to all rituals.

    The only problem with this is that tome pact warlock becomes de facto the best caster in the game.
    Magic above cantrips doesn't exist. Because no caster will have the ability to cast anything except cantrips you can just forget all the cool things magic can do.

    Might allow 1st level rituals (only used as a ritual) in this set up but yeah no actual spells.

    Because magic can't have very nice things (though cantrips give them nice things).

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Saint Louis
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Double Standard Wizard

    Quote Originally Posted by bloodshed343 View Post
    In my opinion, Vancian casting doesn't make sense. I would actually prefer it if casters were built more like martials using cantrips in place of melee attacks. They could also have utility cantrips. They would get more/better cantrips as they level. Spells like wish would exist as rituals with a huge component cost.

    Also, everyone should have access to rituals. Caster classes would natively have access to the rituals on their own list as a class feature. Learning new rituals should require a feat with a stat requirement. There could be half feats that grant you access to a certain class' rituals and bump that class' spell casting stat by 1. There could be a ritual master feat that requires the ability to cast rituals and an int of 12 and wis 12. It gives you access to all rituals.

    The only problem with this is that tome pact warlock becomes de facto the best caster in the game.

    Also, I wanted to say that the tome pact will change a bit to not be so crazy.

    But I agree that vancian is pretty stupid and serves no place in D&D other than a sacred cow that needs slaughtered.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Titan in the Playground
     
    PairO'Dice Lost's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Malsheem, Nessus
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Double Standard Wizard

    Don't have much to say on the actual class; the designers give casters Nice Things and don't know how to make interesting and powerful martials, news at 11.

    But I did want to comment on the side remarks on Vancian casting:

    Quote Originally Posted by bloodshed343 View Post
    In my opinion, Vancian casting doesn't make sense.
    [...]
    Also, everyone should have access to rituals. Caster classes would natively have access to the rituals on their own list as a class feature.
    Quote Originally Posted by SpawnOfMorbo View Post
    But I agree that vancian is pretty stupid and serves no place in D&D other than a sacred cow that needs slaughtered.
    I'm not sure why many players tend to rave about rituals being cool and flavorful while ranting about Vancian casting being nonsensical and terrible, because flavor-wise they're exactly the same thing.

    In both cases, to summon a demon you pull out your musty old tome, inscribe a mystical diagram on the floor, wave your arms in mystic gestures, and chant arcane syllables and the demon's name for an hour. If you proceed to immediately follow that up with ten more minutes of chanting and then call "Demon, come forth!" and poof, a minor demon appears in your magic circle, you've cast a demon summoning ritual.

    If you instead proceed to magically lock the current state of the ritual away in your mind, go grab a quick breakfast, double-check the cold iron filigree in your mystical diagram, cast a dimensional anchor on the diagram to make it extra secure, then finally chant for ten minutes and call out "Demon, come forth!" and poof, a minor demon appears in your magic circle, you've just prepared and later cast a Vancian lesser planar binding. Making a class that "natively have access to the rituals on their own list as a class feature" and also lets them store rituals to release later (as many people houseruled to fix the 4e ritual system) is literally the process that was used to create the Vancian spellcaster.
    Better to DM in Baator than play in Celestia
    You can just call me Dice; that's how I roll.


    Spoiler: Sig of Holding
    Show

    Quote Originally Posted by abadguy View Post
    Darn you PoDL for making me care about a bunch of NPC Commoners!
    Quote Originally Posted by Chambers View Post
    I'm pretty sure turning Waterdeep into a sheet of glass wasn't the best win condition for that fight. We lived though!
    Quote Originally Posted by MaxiDuRaritry View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by PairO'DiceLost View Post
    <Snip>
    Where are my Like, Love, and Want to Have Your Manchildren (Totally Homo) buttons for this post?
    Won a cookie for this, won everything for this

  8. - Top - End - #8

    Default Re: Double Standard Wizard

    Quote Originally Posted by SpawnOfMorbo View Post
    Here is what the wizard would look like if we use the same standards for fantasy for it as the developers for 5e did for the fighter...
    Actually, this magico-fighter is far worse than the fighter due to:

    1.) Not getting heavy armor,
    2.) Feats being better for weapon combat than spell combat. (See: Sharpshooter, Great Weapon Mastery.)
    3.) Ranged combat heavily favoring weapons over spells due to range constraints on spells.

    If you had a campaign where the only two options were the Battlemaster and your hypothetical wizard-fighter, all the optimizers would take Battlemasters. That means you're advancing a straw man argument.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Saint Louis
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Double Standard Wizard

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxWilson View Post
    Actually, this magico-fighter is far worse than the fighter due to:

    1.) Not getting heavy armor,
    2.) Feats being better for weapon combat than spell combat. (See: Sharpshooter, Great Weapon Mastery.)
    3.) Ranged combat heavily favoring weapons over spells due to range constraints on spells.

    If you had a campaign where the only two options were the Battlemaster and your hypothetical wizard-fighter, all the optimizers would take Battlemasters. That means you're advancing a straw man argument.
    1: Wizard don't thematically get armor, gave them light because those heavy robes have to be a little troublesome to wear just like light armor would be. They still get to select spells that do more than just damage.

    I'll add in blade ward as a cantrip and wizard can cast.

    2: Actually the feats that do awesome things for spells tend to work wonders (ignore resistance for instance, weapon feats don't do that). I call your selection with Elemental Adept, Spell Sniper, and Warcaster being awesome for spells.

    3: Range spells can change up damage types and exploit weaknesses. Range weapons 90% of the time will deal piercing damage. Also, spells can't be sundered, stolen, or dropped.

    This wizard is designed with the same idea as the Fighter, it has more versatility than the fighter but not as much consistent staying power (HP and saves).

    But this is what you get when you make a wizard with the same ideology as the fighter.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Flumph

    Join Date
    Feb 2012

    Default Re: Double Standard Wizard

    Quote Originally Posted by SpawnOfMorbo View Post
    1: Wizard don't thematically get armor, gave them light because those heavy robes have to be a little troublesome to wear just like light armor would be. They still get to select spells that do more than just damage.

    I'll add in blade ward as a cantrip and wizard can cast.

    2: Actually the feats that do awesome things for spells tend to work wonders (ignore resistance for instance, weapon feats don't do that). I call your selection with Elemental Adept, Spell Sniper, and Warcaster being awesome for spells.

    3: Range spells can change up damage types and exploit weaknesses. Range weapons 90% of the time will deal piercing damage. Also, spells can't be sundered, stolen, or dropped.

    This wizard is designed with the same idea as the Fighter, it has more versatility than the fighter but not as much consistent staying power (HP and saves).

    But this is what you get when you make a wizard with the same ideology as the fighter.
    1. No, this is a straw man because cantrips deal less damage than what weapons can do and even if they do they allow a save which is easier to ablate than not hit. Also no attack cantrip can trip, disarm, bring in allies, give advantage..etc.
    2. Also none of those feats increase damage just better probability. Effectively all Elemental adept does is turn at best a 0-4 into a 2-8 on one energy, but what about immunity?(nothing) Warcaster is a feat tax to make cantrips act more like weapons but it still doesn't bridge it fully. While Spellwarp Sniper is decent but it is Sharpshooter without the extra damage option.
    3. No, it doesn't because all you do is make them choose 3 energy damage rather than 3 physical with far less damage and thats it. Your Archmage still can't inflict any condition in battle and Battlemaster is laughing at how pitiful your damage out put is. Also the Battlemaster still has more superiority die than this has cantrip slots as well as a short rest mechanic rather than a day.
    Really, this is just an insult to equate any non-caster to this. It seems to me you are a 4e enthusiast but if you are really interested in bridging the gap look for those certain spells and give utility powers to non-casters while casters have to maintain their spells or knowledge..etc. Give bonuses in the downtime while casters do whatever.
    Last edited by Amnoriath; 2014-12-07 at 11:35 PM.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Saint Louis
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Double Standard Wizard

    Quote Originally Posted by PairO'Dice Lost View Post

    But I did want to comment on the side remarks on Vancian casting:

    I'm not sure why many players tend to rave about rituals being cool and flavorful while ranting about Vancian casting being nonsensical and terrible, because flavor-wise they're exactly the same thing.

    In both cases, to summon a demon you pull out your musty old tome, inscribe a mystical diagram on the floor, wave your arms in mystic gestures, and chant arcane syllables and the demon's name for an hour. If you proceed to immediately follow that up with ten more minutes of chanting and then call "Demon, come forth!" and poof, a minor demon appears in your magic circle, you've cast a demon summoning ritual.

    If you instead proceed to magically lock the current state of the ritual away in your mind, go grab a quick breakfast, double-check the cold iron filigree in your mystical diagram, cast a dimensional anchor on the diagram to make it extra secure, then finally chant for ten minutes and call out "Demon, come forth!" and poof, a minor demon appears in your magic circle, you've just prepared and later cast a Vancian lesser planar binding. Making a class that "natively have access to the rituals on their own list as a class feature" and also lets them store rituals to release later (as many people houseruled to fix the 4e ritual system) is literally the process that was used to create the Vancian spellcaster.

    I'm not insane on rituals, but vancian casting has always bugged me. 5e's version is better than previous editions and it has a cool potential energy kinetic energy thing going on since 2e but there are two main reasons I absolutely hate it.

    1: There are better systems out there and it is only kept around for the sake of keeping it around.

    2: It is the primary reason that non-casters can't have nice things. And by that, I mean, giving casters X/day abilities that have awesome power makes people freak out when you introduce at will abilities. Because obviously (sarcasm), any at will ability is worth more than a x/day ability. This is what lead to the designers of 3.0 overvaluing BAB and devaluing spells.

    People can't wrap their head around the at will abilities because of many reasons but I suspect they think that having at will abilities is unfair or unbalanced no matter how powerful the x/day abilities are.

    Like the 3e warlock versus wizards. I've heard many many many people call the warlock broken cause it is at will. Also, way to many times I've heard the 3.5 PHB II Druid alternate class feature for the druid wildshape (shapeshift?) to be more broken than the core wildshape. The PHB 2 wildshape is actually a better balanced wildshape (which is where I assume paizo got the idea for their alter self line and other spells like that).

    I can rant more but... Vancian casting needs to just go, even in its current form.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Saint Louis
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Double Standard Wizard

    Quote Originally Posted by Amnoriath View Post
    1. No, this is a straw man because cantrips deal less damage than what weapons can do and even if they do they allow a save which is easier to ablate than not hit. Also no attack cantrip can trip, disarm, bring in allies, give advantage..etc.
    2. Also none of those feats increase damage just better probability. Effectively all Elemental adept does is turn at best a 0-4 into a 2-8 on one energy, but what about immunity?(nothing) Warcaster is a feat tax to make cantrips act more like weapons but it still doesn't bridge it fully. While Spellwarp Sniper is decent but it is Sharpshooter without the extra damage option.
    3. No, it doesn't because all you do is make them choose 3 energy damage rather than 3 physical with far less damage and thats it. Your Archmage still can't inflict any condition in battle and Battlemaster is laughing at how pitiful your damage out put is. Also the Battlemaster still has more superiority die than this has cantrip slots as well as a short rest mechanic rather than a day.
    Really, this is just an insult to equate any non-caster to this. It seems to me you are a 4e enthusiast but if you are really interested in bridging the gap look for those certain spells and give utility powers to non-casters while casters have to maintain their spells or knowledge..etc. Give bonuses in the downtime while casters do whatever.
    Cantrips deal in this makeup between 1d6+Int modifier damage to 1d10+Int modifier damage. I'm not sure why you think weapons deal more damage.

    Feats are also optional. Also there are plenty of enemies immune/resistance to nonmagical weapon damage and there is no way in the game as of yet to get over weapon damage resistance. There is no feat taxes in 5e, hell feats are optional.

    Did you not read my work? The archmage regains spell slots per short or long rest. I need to clean up the wording but they can use the extra spell attack feature to fire off cantrips (which the spells are cantrips) when they attack. They should gain the same number of spell slots as a fighter has dice.

    The only insult here is that you didn't read my work, ignore the point of this work, and then called it an insult.
    Last edited by SpawnOfMorbo; 2014-12-08 at 01:03 AM.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Giant2005's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2014

    Default Re: Double Standard Wizard

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxWilson View Post
    Actually, this magico-fighter is far worse than the fighter due to:

    1.) Not getting heavy armor,
    2.) Feats being better for weapon combat than spell combat. (See: Sharpshooter, Great Weapon Mastery.)
    3.) Ranged combat heavily favoring weapons over spells due to range constraints on spells.

    If you had a campaign where the only two options were the Battlemaster and your hypothetical wizard-fighter, all the optimizers would take Battlemasters. That means you're advancing a straw man argument.
    You forgot number 4.

    4.) The Archmage is rubbish compared to the Battlemaster and effectively doesn't do a single thing. The extra 4 limited use cantrips just replace the cantrips you are already using without limit so what is the point of the subclass at all? The Battlemaster's abilities add to the Battlemaster's damage whereas the Archemage's replace their damage for no net gain. It is rubbish and not even close to being a proper comparison.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Saint Louis
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Double Standard Wizard

    Quote Originally Posted by Giant2005 View Post
    You forgot number 4.

    4.) The Archmage is rubbish compared to the Battlemaster and effectively doesn't do a single thing. The extra 4 limited use cantrips just replace the cantrips you are already using without limit so what is the point of the subclass at all? The Battlemaster's abilities add to the Battlemaster's damage whereas the Archemage's replace their damage for no net gain. It is rubbish and not even close to being a proper comparison.
    First off, the archmage only gains 3 cantrips used at will. Cantrips gained later are usable in spell slots. The Archmage (should at least) gain a number of spell slots equal to the number of dice the fighter gains.

    The archmage is the battle master. This is what the battle master looks to people who can see through the crap they wrote down on the pages.

    This isn't meant to keep up with the battle master or be better than the battle master but to show how much it sucks to use the same ideology when making the wizard.

    People who have problems with this should have problems with the fighter too since they are pretty much identical.

  15. - Top - End - #15

    Default Re: Double Standard Wizard

    Quote Originally Posted by SpawnOfMorbo View Post
    1: Wizard don't thematically get armor, gave them light because those heavy robes have to be a little troublesome to wear just like light armor would be. They still get to select spells that do more than just damage.

    I'll add in blade ward as a cantrip and wizard can cast.

    2: Actually the feats that do awesome things for spells tend to work wonders (ignore resistance for instance, weapon feats don't do that). I call your selection with Elemental Adept, Spell Sniper, and Warcaster being awesome for spells.

    3: Range spells can change up damage types and exploit weaknesses. Range weapons 90% of the time will deal piercing damage. Also, spells can't be sundered, stolen, or dropped.

    This wizard is designed with the same idea as the Fighter, it has more versatility than the fighter but not as much consistent staying power (HP and saves).

    But this is what you get when you make a wizard with the same ideology as the fighter.
    1.) It may be "thematic" that your fighter-wizard only gets light armor, but it is still a weakness without a compensating advantage. If you're trying to win an archery duel it matters very much whether you have AC 12 or AC 18/20. (I was going to write "AC 13 or AC 18" and then I realized your fighterwizard doesn't get Mage Armor.) Having decent AC can double your survivability.

    2.) While Prestidigitation is indeed a cool cantrip and lots of fun, it doesn't really constitute a whole class in itself. (Besides, Eldritch Knights can already take Prestidigitation if they want to, so why would I ever take your fighter-wizard?)

    3.) Elemental Adept is not nearly comparable to Sharpshooter. Sharpshooter can double your damage output; Elemental Adept merely prevents it from being halved, under certain circumstances, and grants a +1-ish bonus to damage.

    Warcaster is useless to the fighterwizard as you've written it, because he doesn't have any spells to concentrate on in the first place nor a shield that he wants to wield at the same time as a weapon. The only benefit he gets out of it is getting to use his spells on his opportunity attacks, which is something that a regular fighter gets for free.

    Spell Sniper is a good feat for warlocks, but comparing your fighterwizard with Spell Sniper to a regular fighter with Sharpshooter it quickly becomes apparent that Sharpshooter offers everything Spell Sniper does plus the chance to (approximately) double your damage.

    So you've "called my selection" by naming three feats that are objectively worse for your fighterwizard than Spell Sniper/GWM are for a regular fighter. You're not helping your case.

    4.) Changing up damage types is nice sometimes, but not as nice as the ability to straight-up ignore all resistances/immunities. (You understand what I'm talking about here, right? Nothing in the game is immune to an arrow show from a Longbow +1, and few of them are even immune to an arrow from a regular longbow.) Can you even name three monsters against which piercing damage is bad?

    Unlike a fighter (Eldritch Knight), your fighterwizard doesn't even have the option to enhance his attacks (Magic Weapon spell) to penetrate immunities. If your fighterwizard meets a Rakshasa, all he can do is hide behind others or run away.

    Finally and most importantly, 5.) you've ignored the single best thing about ranged weapons in 5E: they outrange spells and most attacks. You can take your little fighterwizard with Spell Sniper, and I'll take my Eldritch Knight (or Champion or whatever) with his Longbow, and guess what? I can still kill you from a range at which you cannot possibly reply. Even with Spell Sniper, your best attacks only go 80 yards, whereas I can kill you from 200 yards. My tactical flexibility is immensely greater than yours if we duel--and if we're on the same team, my chance of not-getting-roasted-alive-by-dragonbreath is also greater than yours because unlike you, I can fight from outside the dragon's effective range. Using legendary actions, a dragon can move 240 feet in a round and still attack, so the fighterwizard is totally incapable of engaging from a safe distance. My Eldritch Knight on the other hand can outrange and outmove the dragon, and even a battlemaster or a champion can still outrange it and get in a couple rounds of arrows before closing to melee range.

    Face it, the fighterwizard as you've designed it is pathetic compared to a real fighter.
    Last edited by MaxWilson; 2014-12-08 at 02:01 AM.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Saint Louis
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Double Standard Wizard

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxWilson View Post
    1.) It may be "thematic" that your fighter-wizard only gets light armor, but it is still a weakness without a compensating advantage. If you're trying to win an archery duel it matters very much whether you have AC 12 or AC 18/20. (I was going to write "AC 13 or AC 18" and then I realized your fighterwizard doesn't get Mage Armor.) Having decent AC can double your survivability.

    2.) While Prestidigitation is indeed a cool cantrip and lots of fun, it doesn't really constitute a whole class in itself. (Besides, Eldritch Knights can already take Prestidigitation if they want to, so why would I ever take your fighter-wizard?)

    3.) Elemental Adept is not nearly comparable to Sharpshooter. Sharpshooter can double your damage output; Elemental Adept merely prevents it from being halved, under certain circumstances, and grants a +1-ish bonus to damage.

    Warcaster is useless to the fighterwizard as you've written it, because he doesn't have any spells to concentrate on in the first place nor a shield that he wants to wield at the same time as a weapon. The only benefit he gets out of it is getting to use his spells on his opportunity attacks, which is something that a regular fighter gets for free.

    Spell Sniper is a good feat for warlocks, but comparing your fighterwizard with Spell Sniper to a regular fighter with Sharpshooter it quickly becomes apparent that Sharpshooter offers everything Spell Sniper does plus the chance to (approximately) double your damage.

    So you've "called my selection" by naming three feats that are objectively worse for your fighterwizard than Spell Sniper/GWM are for a regular fighter. You're not helping your case.

    4.) Changing up damage types is nice sometimes, but not as nice as the ability to straight-up ignore all resistances/immunities. (You understand what I'm talking about here, right? Nothing in the game is immune to an arrow show from a Longbow +1, and few of them are even immune to an arrow from a regular longbow.) Can you even name three monsters against which piercing damage is bad?

    Unlike a fighter (Eldritch Knight), your fighterwizard doesn't even have the option to enhance his attacks (Magic Weapon spell) to penetrate immunities. If your fighterwizard meets a Rakshasa, all he can do is hide behind others or run away.

    Finally and most importantly, 5.) you've ignored the single best thing about ranged weapons in 5E: they outrange spells and most attacks. You can take your little fighterwizard with Spell Sniper, and I'll take my Eldritch Knight (or Champion or whatever) with his Longbow, and guess what? I can still kill you from a range at which you cannot possibly reply. Even with Spell Sniper, your best attacks only go 80 yards, whereas I can kill you from 200 yards. My tactical flexibility is immensely greater than yours if we duel--and if we're on the same team, my chance of not-getting-roasted-alive-by-dragonbreath is also greater than yours because unlike you, I can fight from outside the dragon's effective range. Using legendary actions, a dragon can move 240 feet in a round and still attack, so the fighterwizard is totally incapable of engaging from a safe distance. My Eldritch Knight on the other hand can outrange and outmove the dragon, and even a battlemaster or a champion can still outrange it and get in a couple rounds of arrows before closing to melee range.

    Face it, the fighterwizard as you've designed it is pathetic compared to a real fighter.
    It isn't that this is pathetic, just making a class with this ideology is pathetic.

    Working on another thing right now but the EK doesn't exist if this is in play, didn't think I would have to spell that one out...

    So on my first-ish try I finally made magic user comparable to the fighter. Sure the wizard can't do everything at once but neither can the fighter.

    Good.

    Still working on a few things with this but as is it is about the same level as the fighter.

  17. - Top - End - #17

    Default Re: Double Standard Wizard

    Quote Originally Posted by SpawnOfMorbo View Post
    It isn't that this is pathetic, just making a class with this ideology is pathetic.

    Working on another thing right now but the EK doesn't exist if this is in play, didn't think I would have to spell that one out...

    So on my first-ish try I finally made magic user comparable to the fighter. Sure the wizard can't do everything at once but neither can the fighter.

    Good.

    Still working on a few things with this but as is it is about the same level as the fighter.
    No, this guy isn't comparable to the fighter. That's why I would always take the fighter over this guy. This guy is totally gimped compared to the fighter. Hence, "straw man."

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Titan in the Playground
     
    PairO'Dice Lost's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Malsheem, Nessus
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Double Standard Wizard

    Quote Originally Posted by SpawnOfMorbo View Post
    I'm not insane on rituals, but vancian casting has always bugged me. 5e's version is better than previous editions and it has a cool potential energy kinetic energy thing going on since 2e but there are two main reasons I absolutely hate it.

    1: There are better systems out there and it is only kept around for the sake of keeping it around.
    I disagree that other systems are inherently "better" and that Vancian doesn't have its place, as every system has its tradeoffs. Every system has something it does better than Vancian casting, for example:
    • Shadowrun's drain casting gives fine-grained control over spell power at a corresponding cost;
    • Point-based systems give you more granular control over your spell output over time;
    • Ars Magica's freeform magic allows lots of creativity in spell construction;
    • The various FATE magic systems are completely integrated with and balanced with non-magic;
    • GURPS Magic gives you maximum customization when building your character;
    • HERO handles open-ended but thematically restricted powers (like "fire mage" or "telekinetic" or "Green Lantern") very well;

    and so forth, but each also has something that it does worse than Vancian casting:
    • Shadowrun's drain casting can be gamed to the point of basically "free" spellcasting if you optimize it or can kill you easily if you don't optimize it;
    • Point-based systems let you go nova much more easily than Vancian ever could and accurate point costs are very hard to assign;
    • Ars Magica's freeform magic has the problem that no two people can agree on what exactly Creo Herbam should be able to do or which of the fifteen possible noun/verb combos for weather magic is the "right" one;
    • FATE "magic" is just a reflavoring of non-magic mechanics and can get stale fast;
    • GURPS Magic doesn't work well past early Renaissance era games because you pay a lot of points for ranged-attack spells and long-range communication spells even when primitive guns and cell phones exist;
    • HERO magic makes it laughably easy to break the game in half with the right power choices;

    and so forth, and it's just a matter of which system has the most appropriate advantages and most easily mitigated drawbacks for a particular game.

    For a game like D&D that is one of the most popular games out there and that strives to be easy to pick up and play for newbies and easy for existing players to move between tables without too much re-adjustment, a magic system that's very simple to explain, gives well-defined outputs without any complex math, requires little to no DM adjudication for most spell effects (illusions being the major exception), and requires little system mastery to choose spells that fit with your character concept and won't kill you when you cast them is actually quite ideal.

    2: It is the primary reason that non-casters can't have nice things. And by that, I mean, giving casters X/day abilities that have awesome power makes people freak out when you introduce at will abilities. Because obviously (sarcasm), any at will ability is worth more than a x/day ability. This is what lead to the designers of 3.0 overvaluing BAB and devaluing spells.

    People can't wrap their head around the at will abilities because of many reasons but I suspect they think that having at will abilities is unfair or unbalanced no matter how powerful the x/day abilities are.

    Like the 3e warlock versus wizards. I've heard many many many people call the warlock broken cause it is at will. Also, way to many times I've heard the 3.5 PHB II Druid alternate class feature for the druid wildshape (shapeshift?) to be more broken than the core wildshape. The PHB 2 wildshape is actually a better balanced wildshape (which is where I assume paizo got the idea for their alter self line and other spells like that).

    I can rant more but... Vancian casting needs to just go, even in its current form.
    Let's be real, now: none of that has anything to do with Vancian casting and everything to do with the facts that (A) the designers don't like giving Nice Things to noncasters and (B) the vast majority of players can't judge balance very well.

    Regarding the former, D&D is far from the only game where noncasters don't get Nice Things; in fact, I can't think of any system off the top of my head where characters without some sort of power source (magic, psionics, supernatural heritage, whatever) don't get the short end of the stick compared to characters with a power source. The current crop of D&D designers would be screwing over fighters no matter what mechanics the wizards and clerics used for their magic.

    Regarding the latter, people freaked out about the warlock's and shapeshift druid's at-will abilities even though they were on the weak side, they freaked out about psionics and incarnum (mostly due to not reading the rules about augmentation and investment limits) despite powers and soulmelds not being as broken as spells, they freaked out about Tome of Battle because it was "too anime" and "gave fighters spellcasting," and the list goes on. Slotted use-limited spells don't make people freak out because they see unbalanced mechanics everywhere, people who don't bother to understand the rules and actually playtest things make themselves freak out.

    You see exactly the same lack of ability to analyze power tradeoffs in systems without Vancian casting, except it's things like "No fair! Physical adepts get both magic and cyberware! Broken!" in Shadowrun (spoiler: they're not broken at all, they're like paladins and rangers, dabbling in both magic and martial stuff and excelling at neither) or "No fair! Potence is one of the most powerful disciplines in the game for a combat character and it puts clan-specific disciplines to shame! Broken!" in Vampire (spoiler: it's not, in fact putting any dots into it at all means you're behind someone who just spent points on Strength), and so on. Blaming Vancian magic for the incompetence of the current D&D designers and the failings of human nature is hardly fair.
    Better to DM in Baator than play in Celestia
    You can just call me Dice; that's how I roll.


    Spoiler: Sig of Holding
    Show

    Quote Originally Posted by abadguy View Post
    Darn you PoDL for making me care about a bunch of NPC Commoners!
    Quote Originally Posted by Chambers View Post
    I'm pretty sure turning Waterdeep into a sheet of glass wasn't the best win condition for that fight. We lived though!
    Quote Originally Posted by MaxiDuRaritry View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by PairO'DiceLost View Post
    <Snip>
    Where are my Like, Love, and Want to Have Your Manchildren (Totally Homo) buttons for this post?
    Won a cookie for this, won everything for this

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Saint Louis
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Double Standard Wizard

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxWilson View Post
    No, this guy isn't comparable to the fighter. That's why I would always take the fighter over this guy. This guy is totally gimped compared to the fighter. Hence, "straw man."
    Yeah, look up why yelling strawmen outside the debate club doesn't matter.

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Flumph

    Join Date
    Feb 2012

    Default Re: Double Standard Wizard

    Quote Originally Posted by SpawnOfMorbo View Post
    Cantrips deal in this makeup between 1d6+Int modifier damage to 1d10+Int modifier damage. I'm not sure why you think weapons deal more damage.

    Feats are also optional. Also there are plenty of enemies immune/resistance to nonmagical weapon damage and there is no way in the game as of yet to get over weapon damage resistance. There is no feat taxes in 5e, hell feats are optional.

    Did you not read my work? The archmage regains spell slots per short or long rest. I need to clean up the wording but they can use the extra spell attack feature to fire off cantrips (which the spells are cantrips) when they attack. They should gain the same number of spell slots as a fighter has dice.

    The only insult here is that you didn't read my work, ignore the point of this work, and then called it an insult.
    1. No wizard cantrip deals a d10 base damage that uses an attack roll. Only poison spray deals a d12 but that is against a con. save. Conversely weapons do deal d10, d12, and 2d6 also there is magical bonuses. You also say nothing in that you add your intelligence modifier.
    2. Oh yes ignore the fact that your challenge was met and beaten.
    3. Again you don't say that as the Battlemaster gains 6(7 with feat). Maybe you changed the rest part but it still doesn't ignore that Battlemaster adds to damage or bonuses as well as something new with what could be done with an attack.

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Kobold

    Join Date
    Mar 2013

    Default Re: Double Standard Wizard

    Quote Originally Posted by Amnoriath View Post
    1. No wizard cantrip deals a d10 base damage that uses an attack roll. Only poison spray deals a d12 but that is against a con. save. Conversely weapons do deal d10, d12, and 2d6 also there is magical bonuses. You also say nothing in that you add your intelligence modifier.
    2. Oh yes ignore the fact that your challenge was met and beaten.
    3. Again you don't say that as the Battlemaster gains 6(7 with feat). Maybe you changed the rest part but it still doesn't ignore that Battlemaster adds to damage or bonuses as well as something new with what could be done with an attack.
    Yo, pretty sure this... Is in the OP...

    "Spell Casting: You gain 3 attack cantrips from the Wizard spell list that can be used at will. Your cantrips add your intelligence modifier to the damage. Cantrips do not level up based on your level. All cantrips have an attack roll versus AC. 1d20 + Int + Prof is your attack roll. If you roll a one you auto miss if you roll a 20 you crit. Cantrips that offer saves become attack roll cantrips choice of starting cantrips."

    Try the second sentence in that line.

    Also the archmagebhas damage increases by 1 and then 2 steps at level 10 & 18 like the Fighter has with their dice...

    Seriously dude, calm down and read before you get all uppity.

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2009

    Default Re: Double Standard Wizard

    Quote Originally Posted by Amnoriath View Post
    1. No wizard cantrip deals a d10 base damage that uses an attack roll. Only poison spray deals a d12 but that is against a con. save. Conversely weapons do deal d10, d12, and 2d6 also there is magical bonuses. You also say nothing in that you add your intelligence modifier.
    2. Oh yes ignore the fact that your challenge was met and beaten.
    3. Again you don't say that as the Battlemaster gains 6(7 with feat). Maybe you changed the rest part but it still doesn't ignore that Battlemaster adds to damage or bonuses as well as something new with what could be done with an attack.
    Not to rain on your parade but the spell you are looking for is firebolt. Cantrip, 1d10 fire damage, Requires a ranged attack roll. That being said, this "class" is a bit silly, after all it is based on battlemaster but battlemaster is a subclass, shouldn't the class be based on fighter then given a battlemaster, champion and eldritch knight tree?
    Life is precious, guard it will your soul.

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Kobold

    Join Date
    Mar 2013

    Default Re: Double Standard Wizard

    Quote Originally Posted by Logosloki View Post
    Not to rain on your parade but the spell you are looking for is firebolt. Cantrip, 1d10 fire damage, Requires a ranged attack roll. That being said, this "class" is a bit silly, after all it is based on battlemaster but battlemaster is a subclass, shouldn't the class be based on fighter then given a battlemaster, champion and eldritch knight tree?
    I think the archmage was based on battle master, the first version only had battle master version of this mage.

    Later the champion wizard showed up.

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2009

    Default Re: Double Standard Wizard

    re: wizarding schools

    Abjuration just says that when you aren't wearing armour you are wearing leather armour.

    Conjuration too good man.

    Evocation should be worded thusly: You are able to evoke a bit more power into shocking grasp. You deal +2 damage when you cast shocking grasp while wielding an arcane focus.

    Necromancy too good man.


    Also, I look forward to the warlock styled like a rogue. I want to see how you can make a pretty broken caster into a pretty broken martial.
    Life is precious, guard it will your soul.

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Kobold

    Join Date
    Mar 2013

    Default Re: Double Standard Wizard

    Quote Originally Posted by Logosloki View Post
    re: wizarding schools

    Abjuration just says that when you aren't wearing armour you are wearing leather armour.

    Conjuration too good man.

    Evocation should be worded thusly: You are able to evoke a bit more power into shocking grasp. You deal +2 damage when you cast shocking grasp while wielding an arcane focus.

    Necromancy too good man.


    Also, I look forward to the warlock styled like a rogue. I want to see how you can make a pretty broken caster into a pretty broken martial.
    I've been keeping my eye on this class so I can let you know that when Abjuration was created the Wizard didn't get armor. Armor was a recent addition to it.

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Flumph

    Join Date
    Feb 2012

    Default Re: Double Standard Wizard

    Quote Originally Posted by CrusaderJoe View Post
    Yo, pretty sure this... Is in the OP...

    "Spell Casting: You gain 3 attack cantrips from the Wizard spell list that can be used at will. Your cantrips add your intelligence modifier to the damage. Cantrips do not level up based on your level. All cantrips have an attack roll versus AC. 1d20 + Int + Prof is your attack roll. If you roll a one you auto miss if you roll a 20 you crit. Cantrips that offer saves become attack roll cantrips choice of starting cantrips."

    Try the second sentence in that line.

    Also the archmagebhas damage increases by 1 and then 2 steps at level 10 & 18 like the Fighter has with their dice...

    Seriously dude, calm down and read before you get all uppity.
    1. It doesn't say anything about adding Intelligence to damage which was just one of my points. So currently we are looking at most 1d8 consistently.
    2. All that does is increase the base damage of the slotted ones, not his base attack cantrips which are used instead of them. A Battlemaster increases the added damage on top of inflicted conditions, advantages, bringing in allies..etc.
    3. It still has 2 less slots than superiority die at base.
    I am not being uppity I am holding him to his facetious and false points in the class as well as subclasses since this is the only reason he is doing this.
    Last edited by Amnoriath; 2014-12-08 at 09:52 AM.

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Kobold

    Join Date
    Mar 2013

    Default Re: Double Standard Wizard

    Quote Originally Posted by Amnoriath View Post
    1. It doesn't say anything about adding Intelligence to damage which was just one of my points. So currently we are looking at most 1d8 consistently.
    2. All that does is increase the base damage of the slotted ones, not his base attack cantrips which are used instead of them. A Battlemaster increases the added damage on top of inflicted conditions, advantages, bringing in allies..etc.
    3. It still has 2 less slots than superiority die at base.
    I am not being uppity I am holding him to his facetious and false points in the class as well as subclasses since this is the only reason he is doing this.
    I'm sorry but you either are just messing with me and everyone else or you don't want to read.

    It clearly states under wizard class features that you add +Int mod to damage. Spell Caster is not under the archmage subtype but the wizard class.

    The battle master wizard has +Int mod (wizard class feature) and increase base damage.

    2 less than the fighter? So what it isn't like this is finished.

    Seriously dude read before ranting, it looks bad when you don't.

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Flumph

    Join Date
    Feb 2012

    Default Re: Double Standard Wizard

    Quote Originally Posted by CrusaderJoe View Post
    I'm sorry but you either are just messing with me and everyone else or you don't want to read.

    It clearly states under wizard class features that you add +Int mod to damage. Spell Caster is not under the archmage subtype but the wizard class.

    The battle master wizard has +Int mod (wizard class feature) and increase base damage.

    2 less than the fighter? So what it isn't like this is finished.

    Seriously dude read before ranting, it looks bad when you don't.
    Well the fact is he changed it when I first commented and this is what the Archmage says for that. "At level 10 your cantrips used in spell slots increase their damage dice by one step. At level 18 they increase by another step." So no it isn't at all in comparison to what a Battlemaster is doing. Also an offense based "wizard" he is probably at an 80 health disadvantage(if not more) in comparison to to dex. based fighter if they try to match dexterity. Besides he isn't trying to "finish" and actually be proud of what he made or learned. He is doing this out of spite because the designers went away from 4e equivocation.
    Last edited by Amnoriath; 2014-12-08 at 10:45 AM.

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Kobold

    Join Date
    Mar 2013

    Default Re: Double Standard Wizard

    It was edited last night at 1am...

    Yeah I'm done, comment all you want but I'm not dealing with you anymore if you going to try and pull that crap.

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2013

    Default Re: Double Standard Wizard

    I tried to come up with my own spellcasting system similar to 4e rituals. I added an exhaustion system so that you couldn't spam rituals like fabricate to make a profit. It ended up remarkably similar to the Vancian system, except spells took longer to cast and cost quite a bit more components. So, I can't think of anything better than Vancian really.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •