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View Poll Results: Polls can be added after the fact. Do you agree?

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Results 1 to 26 of 26
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Zeta Kai's Avatar

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    Default If you can do it, so can I... (Feat)

    I know that this might be a bit broken, & perhaps it breaks down the very meaning of distinct character classes, but I really want to see if it can be done. I tried to make the crunch as specific as possible, without devolving in Polymorph-like rules errate. Let me know if you see any major loopholes or other critical flaws.

    (EDIT: raised the BAB requirement for balance)

    Acquired Feature [General]
    You can assume the features of a class other than your own.
    Prerequisites: Intelligence 15+, Wisdom 15+
    Benefit: You can take any one class feature from any class & use it, even if it you have no levels of that class. You must follow all rules & restrictions of a class feature to use it.
    Also, you must have a BAB equal to or greater than the feature’s native class + 1 to use that feature. For example, to use the Trackless Step feature available to 3rd level druids, you must have a BAB of 3 or more, like a 4th level druid.
    Furthermore, in order to use a feature that is dependent on a lesser feature, you must have the lesser feature. Another example, if you wish to obtain the feature of a 4th level barbarian to rage twice a day, you must first gain the ability to rage once per day.
    Spellcasting abilities are excluded, but spell-like abilities (such as a paladin’s Lay on Hands or a monk’s Abundant Step) are permissible. You cannot use this feat to gain bonus feats. You cannot use a class feature from a Prestige Class that you do not qualify for.
    This feat can be taken multiple times. Each time you take this feat, it applies to a different class feature.

    PEACH
    Last edited by Zeta Kai; 2007-03-29 at 06:30 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Planetar

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    Default Re: If you can do it, so can I... (Feat)

    Sorry man, but way too overpowered for a feat. I like the idea, but this definitely needs a reworking. First off though I'd replace the BAB req, it doesn't really make sense to rely on attack bonus. I'd say make it so you have to be twice the level at which that class gains that ability. Then by the time you could get any useful abilities, they'd be out of date enough that they might not be overpowered. I'm not really sure though.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    knightsaline's Avatar

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    Default Re: If you can do it, so can I... (Feat)

    This seems to remind me of the Sharingan from Naruto. Is that what you are trying to go for?
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  4. - Top - End - #4
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Zombie

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    Default Re: If you can do it, so can I... (Feat)

    Increase the requirements and give different sets. For instance, if you want uncanny dodge, you need Dex +16 and 4 ranks in tumble. And this seems epic.
    Ceika is amazing, because she made my Yuna avie. Yay Ceika!

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Zeta Kai's Avatar

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    Default Re: If you can do it, so can I... (Feat)

    1) I've never heard of Naruto, but I hear it's popular. I just want to create a true Jack-of-All-Trades.

    2) BAB is a good statistic to use for judging different levels. Only spellcasters have BAB's that raise too slowly to be usuable for this feat, & they don't have usable class features beyond 1st level anyway. I suppose I could reword it to use just level numbers, but I fear that would be more confusing. I'll try it & see.

    3) In retrospect, I agree that the requirements should be higher. I'm thinking that perhaps it should the native class's BAB/level +2 to use their feature. I'll work on it.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Baron Corm's Avatar

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    Default Re: If you can do it, so can I... (Feat)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeta Kai View Post
    1) I've never heard of Naruto, but I hear it's popular. I just want to create a true Jack-of-All-Trades.
    try the factotum from Dungeonscape (written in part by Rich Burlew)

    it is decidedly the ultimate jack-of-all-trades class

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: If you can do it, so can I... (Feat)

    This'd work better as a PrC (a la the Chameleon) than as a feat, in my opinion.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: If you can do it, so can I... (Feat)

    ...and thus completely replaces the Bard.
    "The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words ... English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary."

    "The only thing necessary for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing."

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: If you can do it, so can I... (Feat)

    The Black Company Campaign Setting has a Jack of all Trades who has a class ability to enable them to mimic skill ranks and feats that they witness. They also get a truckload of bonus feats to further represent their extremely broad range of training.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: If you can do it, so can I... (Feat)

    or you can use a generic build a class...which i am building and would love any help i coukd get with...

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Planetar

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    Default Re: If you can do it, so can I... (Feat)

    The issue with using BAB as measurement is that those casters would have a really hard time taking this feat because of their low numbers, not that certain class skills would be easier than others. Although that could factor in as well.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Kioran's Avatar

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    Default Re: If you can do it, so can I... (Feat)

    This feat is too powerful, no matter how you turn it. The same class Feature (for example Uncanny Dodge) is acquired by different classes at different levels, and the only thing you need to do is look into classes until you find one that has the desired feature on a lower lvl.....
    Besides, a monk with Improved uncanny Dodge would be a demigod of defense.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: If you can do it, so can I... (Feat)

    maybe a prestige class that gain minor abilities and in the 5th level he get's this feat.
    some lore seeker or sumthin.
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  14. - Top - End - #14
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Zeta Kai's Avatar

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    Default Re: If you can do it, so can I... (Feat)

    Ah, but Icewalker, you prove my point. The choice of using BAB as the deciding factor was made partially BECAUSE it would discourage it's use among spellcasters. Wizards, sorcerers & the like don't need the versatility & power this feat can grant. Non-mage types, especially feat-friendly fighters, do.

    And yes, one can "shop around" to find a class that offers a class ability that you want at a lower level, but that can only be taken so far. UD becomes available at 2nd level minimum, & so what? The abilities available to other classes are not generally game breaking in & of themselves, & feats are only available every few levels anyway, so there's no real risk of someone becoming a party-in-a-class (as a high-level wizard becomes). If someone DOES wish to take this feat everytime, they won't become gods. I know, I've tested it on multiple builds. It is a little overpowered as it stands, but not brokenly so.

    I tried this as a PrC, but as I was working on it, I realized that this feat is all one would really need. Once I'd made this feat (originally a class feature), all other abilities became superfluous.

    NOTE: I've edited the feat to raise the BAB. The balance gods have spoken, & I hear them clearly. However, if I were to nerf this more, it's already-limited use would become obsolete.
    Last edited by Zeta Kai; 2007-03-29 at 06:32 AM.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: If you can do it, so can I... (Feat)

    So, I can be a monoclass Battle Sorceror and take this as my sixth level feat to get the Duskblade's Arcane Channeling ability? And then again at eighteenth to get the full-attack version? Full casting, casting in light armor (mithral breastplate!), arcane channeling, 3/4 BAB...

    ...what am I not seeing here? Where's the downside?

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Zeta Kai's Avatar

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    Default Re: If you can do it, so can I... (Feat)

    By the time you've reached 18th level, you're probably already owning as a spellcaster anyway. A few odd class features added for twinking cheese probably wouldn't make much difference.

    And besides, the Battle Sorcerer is a bit overpowered as is.

  17. - Top - End - #17
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    Khantalas's Avatar

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    Default Re: If you can do it, so can I... (Feat)

    Battle Sorcerers are worse than Sorcerers at spellcasting. Which means they are not really good. They won't own much.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: If you can do it, so can I... (Feat)

    Quote Originally Posted by Khantalas View Post
    Battle Sorcerers are worse than Sorcerers at spellcasting. Which means they are not really good. They won't own much.
    They're not worse, they're more focused. The main problem with Battle Sorcerors is that people view them as full casters. They're not: they're melee combattants with a few magical tricks up their sleeves.

    The point I'm trying to make is that this feat removes my need for 3 levels of Duskblade in my "I turn AoEs into Channels" build.

    That's a big step.

    Now I can go Spellthief 1/Battle Sorceror 7/Spellwarp Sniper 5/Enlightened Fist 7, instead of the weird and convoluted Spellthief 1/Wizard 4/Duskblade 3/Spellwarp Sniper 5/Enlightened Fist 7, netting me more final caster levels as well as a better BAB.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Planetar

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    Default Re: If you can do it, so can I... (Feat)

    make a max value of features that who takes the feat. One feature for every Int or Wis mod, taking always the lower one. If he takes things like "X/Day", make him take one feat for every X, and never surpassing the max of the class that normaly have that feature.

    NOW we have something. and make it first level only.

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  20. - Top - End - #20
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: If you can do it, so can I... (Feat)

    Or, in a different vein, I can use Incarnum here. I can use this feat to open three chakras (instead of the one usually granted by the Open X Chakra feats). Now my monk can bind to his hands, feet, and crown.

  21. - Top - End - #21
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    Khantalas's Avatar

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    Default Re: If you can do it, so can I... (Feat)

    Well, that's why I said "at spellcasting". They get less spells known, and can cast them less times per day. That's not a better spellcaster.

    They do, however, make good combatants.

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: If you can do it, so can I... (Feat)

    Neat, now I can make a fighter with the Wild Shape class feature... or not, I think this feat is way too unballanced and no matter how much you try, you won't be able to balance it. Those class features weren't meant to be taken by others classes, this is going to open way too many loopholes.
    Last edited by TheDon; 2007-03-29 at 04:32 PM.

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Eighth_Seraph's Avatar

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    Default Re: If you can do it, so can I... (Feat)

    Honestly, there's really no way to balance this IMO. Simply put: Wild Shape. I would only allow this as an epic feat and even then I would make it so that the character would need to sacrifice progression in a class feature of his current class in order to take it. I'm foreseeing sorcerers with Lay on Hands and Divine Grace, Clerics with a Wisdom bonus to AC and Rogues with Familiars. Far too easy to break.
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  24. - Top - End - #24
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    Kultrum's Avatar

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    Default Re: If you can do it, so can I... (Feat)

    Ya the Factorum get that ability only its 3/day for 1 round as a free action and they can change it day to day, also they get it at lvl 19 and can only use it for abilities lvl 15 or lower
    Last edited by Kultrum; 2007-03-29 at 04:45 PM.
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  25. - Top - End - #25
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: If you can do it, so can I... (Feat)

    heh Sorcerer with Cha bonus to it's save + slippery mind + evasion, yep love the feat, too bad my DM won't allow it

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Troll in the Playground
     
    ElfMonkGuy

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    Default Re: If you can do it, so can I... (Feat)

    Wild Shape is really not that big an exploitation of this skill; you would need to take the feat four times in order to follow the Wild Shape feature advancement to Large shapes, for instance, and then 5 more times to reach Huge size. Class features that scale with level would be the really dangerous ones.

    So... I have a character with the required int and wis, and I make him a Human Fighter.

    Human: Animal Companion (from Druid)
    Level 1: Unarmed Strike (from Monk)
    Level 3: Inspire Competence (from Bard; why not?)
    Level 6: Special Mount (from Paladin)
    Level 9: Turn Undead (from Cleric; it's better than Venom Immunity)
    Level 12: Divine Grace (from Paladin)
    Level 15: Diamond Soul (from Monk)
    Level 18: Slippery Mind (from Rogue, special ability)

    So now we have a guy, admittedly he's probably not very strong or fast or tough, kinda cerebral, but he's riding a Celestial Tyrannosaurus, sloughs off Hold Person like nobody's business, and he can absolutely kill you in a barfight. He doesn't need to be a Fighter, either, since those are just every-3rd-level feats.

    And that's just from the SRD.

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