Crusader Kings 2 Thread III: Keeping Up With The Karlings

[Corvus]

I've seemed to have run into an annoying de jure drift bug. Twice now in my current game, a kingdom has de jured drifted into my Empire after the 100 years, it shows up on the map as being in my Empire and then it suddenly resets back to its old status and starts the de jure drift all over again from year 0.

[Artanis]

Not a bug. Empires and kingdoms cannot, by definition, be republics.

Venice is a non-titular kingdom-level title that can only be formed by a republic.

There's also a couple titular kingdoms for Genoa and Pisa.



Edit: Addendum

Also, I had a time where I got a kingdom from a crusade while playing a republic, and it seemed to work fine...though admittedly, it was a long time and several expansions ago. Regardless of how long it's been though, good luck surviving a successful crusade if this really is Working As Intended. What's that, you say? You accidentally managed to be better than the AI at the very thing that Crusader Kings was named after? GAME OVER!

[Leecros]

Not a bug. Empires and kingdoms cannot, by definition, be republics.

I have had Sicily, Africa, and Egypt as Kingdom-level titles for more than one generation. So it is possible to have Kingdom-level trade republics.

As far as Emperor-tier, that's a bit murky since it did start when i became an emperor(Grand Prince). However, internet searches have implied that it is possible.

[Flickerdart]

I've created regular empire-level republics (principalities) before. It's definitely possible to inherit them correctly, or used to be anyway.

[Avilan the Grey]

But there is a difference between a Kingdom LEVEL land area and an actual KINGDOM. Just like if you as a king make a republic a duchy, at which point it cannot be inherited by the Doge / Grand Mayor but goes to a "regular" noble.

[TheTeaMustFlow]

There is absolutely nothing preventing Republics holding or creating king or emperor titles normally. However, a Republic cannot usurp a kingdom or empire, so to take one that already exists, they need to destroy and recreate it.

[OrcusMcP]

Something amusing I have noticed(and may or may not be a spoiler preview ):

If you start in 769 as Catholic, you have an decision where you can form the Holy Roman Empire with particular conditions filled. When you start as the Byzantine emperor(assuming you have LoR), you have a decision to reform the Roman Empire if you meet certain conditions.

When you have the option for the HRE decision, but then get the Byzantine Empire title, you lose the HRE decision and can only use the Roman Empire decision.

[Flickerdart]

When you have the option for the HRE decision, but then get the Byzantine Empire title, you lose the HRE decision and can only use the Roman Empire decision.

You should still be able to create the HRE normally (which is sort of weird since it's hardly an HRE without Elective succession).

[Leecros]

But there is a difference between a Kingdom LEVEL land area and an actual KINGDOM. Just like if you as a king make a republic a duchy, at which point it cannot be inherited by the Doge / Grand Mayor but goes to a "regular" noble.

You're right, but there's no reason why a Merchant Republic shouldn't be able to use the Create Custom Kingdom/empire title and create an appropriate title for their realm like anyone else in the game.

Nor does it make sense for said custom title to run perfectly fine as a Principality for 30 years and then revert to a feudal title upon succession for no apparent reason.

[OrcusMcP]

You should still be able to create the HRE normally (which is sort of weird since it's hardly an HRE without Elective succession).

Nope, at least when you start in 769, it's either Francia or Germania with de jure borders, HRE has to be made by decision.

[Flickerdart]

Oh, it's Germania now? I haven't checked in a while, clearly.

[IthilanorStPete]

Oh, it's Germania now? I haven't checked in a while, clearly.

Only in the 769 start, IIRC. 769 has a lot of changes to the de jure setup.

[Valley]

Restarted my game to play a few more hundred years. Funny how things get stranger and stranger.

Spoiler

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[IMG][/IMG]

For some reason I just thought that was funny as heck.

[Leecros]

For some reason I just thought that was funny as heck.

I see a few things amusing with that image. The fact that King Bosporios has a pretty pale complexion for a Nubian, The Fact that he's Orthodox instead of Miaphysite, and the fact that his brother is probably only half so.

[Valley]

Okay - I love history but I don't know enough about religious history to know if this makes sense or not...

Spoiler

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I made Nubia Orthodox by getting my family onto the throne (and also that tiny independent realm east of Georgia that is now part of Nubia - don't ask - I don't even know) but how is it spreading east like that? Is that normal?

[Sallera]

Nomads have the ability to send their sons (i.e. heirs) out as mercenaries, and they've a chance to come back with a different religion. That's probably at least part of what's happening there.

[Flickerdart]

The Khazars of the steppes adopted Judaism, and the Volga Bolghars were Muslims. Plus Christianity was historically a huge hit with the Eastern Slavs. So it's not at all ahistorical for something like this to happen.

[OrcusMcP]

Yes, as Flickerdart said Christianity was not actually something unknown or new to the steppes at the time. The fact that you have Orthodox becoming dominant may be a little early, as it was the older, more Eastern form of Christianity that spread amongst the steppes more than anything (Nestorian especially).

[Flickerdart]

Isn't Nestorianism only on that one tiny island in CKII? Any possible way to spread out of it?

[OrcusMcP]

Isn't Nestorianism only on that one tiny island in CKII? Any possible way to spread out of it?

I mean more IRL (there was a decent Nestorian minority among the Mongols, forex), but yes, Nestorian is only really found in game on the island off the Horn of Africa. It's possible to spread out of there if you're playing, but it's tough.

[Corvus]

I see a few things amusing with that image. The fact that King Bosporios has a pretty pale complexion for a Nubian, The Fact that he's Orthodox instead of Miaphysite, and the fact that his brother is probably only half so.

Its easy to get pale complexion Nubians if you marry non-Africans. My Nubians have married with the Greeks a lot and have had that happen - and it was why there were 5 or 6 black Greek Basileuses.

[IthilanorStPete]

I mean more IRL (there was a decent Nestorian minority among the Mongols, forex), but yes, Nestorian is only really found in game on the island off the Horn of Africa. It's possible to spread out of there if you're playing, but it's tough.

I've seen the Golden Horde/Ilkhanate convert to Nestorianism by event, but that was pre-Horse Lords. Is that still possible?

[TheTeaMustFlow]

I've seen the Golden Horde/Ilkhanate convert to Nestorianism by event, but that was pre-Horse Lords. Is that still possible?

They aren't in any of the startdates, but there are actually a couple of nestorian Khagans in the game (Sartag of the Golden Horde in 1255 and Abaga of the Ilkhanate in 1265. Playing either of them is something of a challenge - quoth the interesting characters guide:

You are the one true believer in a sea of heretics, pagans, and schismatics. You are the one scholar and theologian in a family of warriors. The real Khagan Sartag lasted barely a year. Good luck.

[Valley]

What happens when a invading host of men from the icy north accidentally land their warriors in a province of rebelling smelly peasants?

Hilarity!

Spoiler: Hilarity!

Show

Hilarity and a on-sided battle where thousands of rebel scum are cut down by heavily armed pagans.

Best part, the Empire just had to sit back and watch. While enjoying a wide selection of wines, of course.

[Mabn]

I am a bit confused as to how taking stuff from my vassals works. I started a Byzantine game, and starting with a 3/7 demesne and soon having a 60 year old ruler I decided I would like to trade vassal opinion for land. In the 8 or however many years till the guy died I couldn't do it. One vassal I tried to revoke a title, crushed a rebellion, castrated the vassal in question, tried to revoke that same title, crushed that vassal's second rebellion, revoked the title, and then executed said vassal. This still did not lead to me getting either of the vassal's holdings. Conquest and revoking pagan titles, fabricating claims, nothing, regardless of its apparent success actually gave me land. Is that just a Byzantium thing? Because for all of its ending in fire getting peoples stuff seemed relatively straightforward in the Karling run I tried.

[Anxe]

Started a Buddhist game and so far it seems way boring compared to Catholics. I can't Holy War anybody yet because I'm stuck in the Sri Lanka. And I don't have any claims because nobody had any daughters or sisters when I started so there was nobody to marry to get claims on place. Am I just supposed to sit here and be peaceful?

[Pokonic]

Started a Buddhist game and so far it seems way boring compared to Catholics. I can't Holy War anybody yet because I'm stuck in the Sri Lanka. And I don't have any claims because nobody had any daughters or sisters when I started so there was nobody to marry to get claims on place. Am I just supposed to sit here and be peaceful?

Creating a Indian-religioned Merchant Republic and then consoling over to them has been the main way I have gotten serious playtime through them. You wouldn't be in immediate competition with any other trade republic, and concubines allow for a quick build-up of family members. In addition, all the local religions provide some nice bonuses for a trade republic; Hindus have that moral bonus and holy war, Buddhism lets you pick a heir from your children, and Jainism makes it less likely for revolts to occur in general. Also, you can put elephants on boats.

[Avilan the Grey]

Weird! I was going to buy Horse Lords today for my birthday money, and I already own it.
I have NO memory of buying it, I distinctly remember NOT to get it when it came out since I wasn't going to play the game right then and I didn't have spare cash.

[Malimar]

So in the latest game I started, Charlemagne's son Pepin formed Francia, which I hadn't seen before.

And then, somehow, Pepin's son became a priest and Francia got turned into a theocracy.

And now there's no such thing as a Pope who wasn't Emperor of Francia first.

[Leecros]

And then, somehow, Pepin's son became a priest and Francia got turned into a theocracy.

This is something i've noticed happening quite a bit since...Well, probably since Way of Life really. I think what usually happens is that when someone becomes a bishop, they lose their inheritance. However, for whatever reason they don't lose their claims. So things like factions and other things can happen where they can still become king and for whatever reason because the person in power is theocratic. It changes the whole title to a theocracy.

I think that's probably what happens. Granted i've never checked and i haven't played Crusader Kings II in well over a month.