Crusader Kings 2 Thread III: Keeping Up With The Karlings

[OrcusMcP]

When you really need to add gout and dysentery to your CK2 experience.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

I'm very excited about this, hopefully it means that the Black Death actually happens, and is moderately devastating.

[Anxe]

So if surgery is becoming a part of the game is this going to open up new events for the Spawn of Satan?

[Mabn]

ok, weird and different problem. I'm still playing the Scottish merchant republic game I asked about earlier. In 1050 or so the Germanic faiths had reformed and occupied Scandinavia, northern Germany and the Baltic states, mostly under Saxon rule; the Umayads controlled Spain, France, and northwest Africa, the Islamic faith never schismed and stretched from one corner of the map to the other, and I controlled the kingdoms of Scotland and Ireland. Now its 1110, I control Great Britten thanks to vassals pressing claims, and most of France and Spain thanks to running out of stuff to build and throwing a few mercenary companies at whatever the pope declared a crusade target, and Germanic holdings remain steady, but have fractured into a bunch of useless states who's raiders can't even siege my cities. So my question is what do I do now? I can probably have 3 empires within the next hundred years, I have more money than I can spend, my greatest succession threat is the minor members of my house that decided to become their own leading families (I don't even know how that works), and thanks to money that is truly not a threat. No one can remotely challenge me militarily, economically, or technologically.

[OrcusMcP]

ok, weird and different problem. I'm still playing the Scottish merchant republic game I asked about earlier. In 1050 or so the Germanic faiths had reformed and occupied Scandinavia, northern Germany and the Baltic states, mostly under Saxon rule; the Umayads controlled Spain, France, and northwest Africa, the Islamic faith never schismed and stretched from one corner of the map to the other, and I controlled the kingdoms of Scotland and Ireland. Now its 1110, I control Great Britten thanks to vassals pressing claims, and most of France and Spain thanks to running out of stuff to build and throwing a few mercenary companies at whatever the pope declared a crusade target, and Germanic holdings remain steady, but have fractured into a bunch of useless states who's raiders can't even siege my cities. So my question is what do I do now? I can probably have 3 empires within the next hundred years, I have more money than I can spend, my greatest succession threat is the minor members of my house that decided to become their own leading families (I don't even know how that works), and thanks to money that is truly not a threat. No one can remotely challenge me militarily, economically, or technologically.

Yep, that will happen sometimes in games of CK2, especially when you start really early. When you don't have any more challenge from the engine, it's time to make your own fun.

Here are some ideas for what you can do:

-You are about 100 years away from the Mongol Invasions, but you could prepare to take them head on as a challenge. Make Scotland the saviour of Europe.
-If you feel you are too big, time to cut yourself down to size! Spin off some independent kingdoms/republics and create new rivals for yourself.
-Teach the Norse who are boss by Christianizing them the hard way.
-Try to breed the Kwizatz Haderach.
-Play hands off for a bit. Go to observer mode and wait 20, 50, 100 years or something, go back to your dynasty and see where you are at.

[Avilan the Grey]

I swear I eventually will get the Conclave stuff (both packs) and get back into this.
I have a plan to start as a dwarf, just to see how long I can make sure all my descendants are dwarves...

[SZbNAhL]

I swear I eventually will get the Conclave stuff (both packs) and get back into this.
I have a plan to start as a dwarf, just to see how long I can make sure all my descendants are dwarves...

Seeing as how it's a 50% inherit chance (according to the wiki), I'd say two generations if you're lucky. Unless it's more likely if the spouse is a dwarf, I guess. How does that work?

[Guancyto]

Making 'all' your descendants dwarves is pretty much impossible (especially now that you can't prune your family tree as effectively), but making all the characters you play dwarves is pretty easy. Get some concubines and either elective succession or a religion that lets you choose your successor, ????, profit.

[Flickerdart]

Play a merchant republic, only invite dwarf courtiers for wives, only pick dwarf sons as heirs, try to set up the rival families with dwarves as well.

[Artanis]

In theory, you could always save right before each child is born and then keep reloading until it's a dwarf. However, that has the obvious problem of spending half an hour save-scumming every time a child is born

Seeing as how it's a 50% inherit chance (according to the wiki), I'd say two generations if you're lucky. Unless it's more likely if the spouse is a dwarf, I guess. How does that work?

Yeah, how - or for that matter, if - inherit chances stack is something I've always wondered about.

[Malimar]

Seeing as how it's a 50% inherit chance (according to the wiki), I'd say two generations if you're lucky. Unless it's more likely if the spouse is a dwarf, I guess. How does that work?

Yeah, how - or for that matter, if - inherit chances stack is something I've always wondered about.

The raws say it's 25%. I don't know if the wiki is wrong or if the chance has been changed since the last time I updated my game (I haven't played in many months).

Allegedly, if both spouses have a heritable trait, it rolls the probability twice, and if either one or both rolls comes up with the trait, the child has it.

[The Great Wyrm]

So, for a 1/4 chance from each parent, that would make the overall chance 1/4+1/4-(1/4*1/4) = 7/16 (slightly less than 50%).

I would like to see the devs add a more realistic genetics/pedigree system, so we can see stuff like hemophilia in royal families (which happened IRL).

[Malimar]

I would like to see the devs add a more realistic genetics/pedigree system, so we can see stuff like hemophilia in royal families (which happened IRL).

I think the Inbred trait is supposed to cover that sort of thing. But you're right, it could stand to be more realistic.

[IthilanorStPete]

After listening to The Prophet's Song on repeat far too many times, I have an urge to write a Zoroastrian AAR entirely using Queen lyrics. Someone talk me out of this.

(Cookies to whoever can figure out (without Googling) why I made that connection.)

[Artanis]

Someone talk me out of this.

Equating Queen with a multi-generational string of successive inbred lunatics might make fans of the band angry enough to do Bad Things to you*?


*If this happens, make sure to film it and put it on YouTube. 10K views guaranteed.

[Spacewolf]

ok, weird and different problem. I'm still playing the Scottish merchant republic game I asked about earlier. In 1050 or so the Germanic faiths had reformed and occupied Scandinavia, northern Germany and the Baltic states, mostly under Saxon rule; the Umayads controlled Spain, France, and northwest Africa, the Islamic faith never schismed and stretched from one corner of the map to the other, and I controlled the kingdoms of Scotland and Ireland. Now its 1110, I control Great Britten thanks to vassals pressing claims, and most of France and Spain thanks to running out of stuff to build and throwing a few mercenary companies at whatever the pope declared a crusade target, and Germanic holdings remain steady, but have fractured into a bunch of useless states who's raiders can't even siege my cities. So my question is what do I do now? I can probably have 3 empires within the next hundred years, I have more money than I can spend, my greatest succession threat is the minor members of my house that decided to become their own leading families (I don't even know how that works), and thanks to money that is truly not a threat. No one can remotely challenge me militarily, economically, or technologically.

Best way I found to screw with my Empire was to get a load of kids and have them each inherit one of my empires (I controlled everything from the tip of Spain to Iran so quite a few empires and I made sure to give the person I controlled the one smack in the middle of it. That resulted in a few messy years.)

I've recently started a new game and have gone from Count to Duke, but to make sure one of my schemes comes to fruition if I forge a claim on a vassals territories can I then press that claim? For some reason the plotting option to remove their territory became greyed out after I used to against them and won the ensuing war so I can't do that again.

[Grytorm]

Well I am thinking of getting back into Crusader Kings II again. Just after my birthday so I bought a good amount of stuff for the game. Probably I will play Ireland and get bored halfway through when England gets it's act together and I don't know how to beat it anymore. But if I do complete that game I will definitely play someone Iberian but I don't know who.

Also does anyone know what to do if your kingdom has Tribal holdings under an Arbishopric? I had that situation and they never upgraded. Merely sat around and stayed tribes. I got an Archbishopric which held no counties but a Duchy title from using the first Archbishop's claim to conquer Northern Ireland.

[Leecros]

I think the Inbred trait is supposed to cover that sort of thing. But you're right, it could stand to be more realistic.

It would be interesting to see varying degrees of inbred. With worse inbred traits showing up the more it's done.

At the very least it may eliminate the inbred trait randomly appearing where it shouldn't. A generation on inbreeding shouldn't really have much of a chance to get the gibbering idiot inbred trait in the game now. Even between siblings, it would be highly improbable that their kids would be the incompetent that the inbred trait implies after a single, or even two generations. Of course, with each passing generation, the likelihood of terrible problems increases exponentially.

I got a little rambly, but the point is that it took several generations for the Royal Families of Europe to become inbred mutants.

Also does anyone know what to do if your kingdom has Tribal holdings under an Arbishopric? I had that situation and they never upgraded. Merely sat around and stayed tribes. I got an Archbishopric which held no counties but a Duchy title from using the first Archbishop's claim to conquer Northern Ireland.

The only thing I can think of is to upgrade it yourself. Take the province in question and upgrade it before giving it back.

[Spacewolf]

Just had to quit the game out of frustration, I finally managed to get my allies to declare me for king causing a civil war. Except during this war, none of my battles gained victory points but my allies did cue them losing every battle they took part in that I wasn't also present for. Even with that I managed to capture enough territory for us that we had 100% but the game then decides that the leader of the rebellion won't force peace even though we spend nearly four years with the war 100% in our favour, until eventually my leader dies. After this it turns out the game has randomly changed my succession laws from Gavelkind to Eldest member of the house inherits with absolutely no input from me. After that I just decided to give up.

[Artanis]

Just had to quit the game out of frustration, I finally managed to get my allies to declare me for king causing a civil war. Except during this war, none of my battles gained victory points but my allies did cue them losing every battle they took part in that I wasn't also present for. Even with that I managed to capture enough territory for us that we had 100% but the game then decides that the leader of the rebellion won't force peace even though we spend nearly four years with the war 100% in our favour, until eventually my leader dies. After this it turns out the game has randomly changed my succession laws from Gavelkind to Eldest member of the house inherits with absolutely no input from me. After that I just decided to give up.

Ouch. Sounds like it might be a bug (or six), and even if it isn't bugs, it probably isn't Working As Intended.

Who was the leader of the rebellion? Were you leading it, or was it somebody else trying to put you on the throne?

Whatever the underlying reason, sitting at 100% warscore for several years sounds like a situation where I would feel entirely justified bringing up the console to switch characters until you can get the thing ended.

Spoiler: Semi-related aside

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Another example that happened to me (far in the past, granted, but still) was when I was part of an Independence faction that accounted for literally all but one county in the realm and was listed at something like 300% strength, but the AI wouldn't pull the trigger until I switched to the supposed leader and did so for them

[Spacewolf]

Ouch. Sounds like it might be a bug (or six), and even if it isn't bugs, it probably isn't Working As Intended.

Who was the leader of the rebellion? Were you leading it, or was it somebody else trying to put you on the throne?

Whatever the underlying reason, sitting at 100% warscore for several years sounds like a situation where I would feel entirely justified bringing up the console to switch characters until you can get the thing ended.

Spoiler: Semi-related aside

Show

Another example that happened to me (far in the past, granted, but still) was when I was part of an Independence faction that accounted for literally all but one county in the realm and was listed at something like 300% strength, but the AI wouldn't pull the trigger until I switched to the supposed leader and did so for them

It was some kid who was leading the rebellion, seems this happens every time I get involved in a rebellion things just go weird.

[Grytorm]

Well I got the game working again with Way of Life, Charlemagne, and Group of People thingy all in. Looks good, started in boring old Ireland as always in the Viking Age start. Chose a guy with good stats and a young son. Married both of them pretty quickly. Unfortunately the controls seem to have changed. I don't know how to open the Province Screen to look at my holdings or how to get to the diplomacy screen from the map. Tis a tad annoying.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Well I got the game working again with Way of Life, Charlemagne, and Group of People thingy all in. Looks good, started in boring old Ireland as always in the Viking Age start. Chose a guy with good stats and a young son. Married both of them pretty quickly. Unfortunately the controls seem to have changed. I don't know how to open the Province Screen to look at my holdings or how to get to the diplomacy screen from the map. Tis a tad annoying.

Provinces haven't changed, to check the holdings in any given province, simply click on it. It's possible you have the province screen set to the trade post/fort tab though.

Diplomacy, you have to have selected the character you want to do things with (including yourself), and then the easiest thing to do is right-click on their face.

[Malistrae]

So, the von Wissen dynasty is doing well. We have significantly expanded Stygia, and Graf Hugo I even declared the formation of the Stygian Empire. Unfortunately, he passed away only 1 year after, due to infirmity. However, it was undoubtably Hugo I 'the Hunchback', who transformed his father's minor border principality into an independent Sigmarite Grand County, and later an Empire. While the Stygian Empire is small compared to the empire founded by Sigmar, Hugo I's son, Hugo II 'the Just' has plans to expand westwards, to gobble up the rest of the border principalities and conquer the lands of Aegos and Paraskiros. Unfortunately, the ancient nemesis of his father, Vorag Bloodytooth of Dhouda, is the major power in Paraskiros. The unusual Strigoi learned the power of necromancy, and commands a vast army of 12,000 ghouls and undead. While he was laid low almost half a century ago by a grand coalition of border princes, led by Graf Hugo I, Vorag managed to inherit a title in Paraskiros and rebuild a measure of his former power. In fact, the threat of Vorag compelled Hugo I in his final years to move the capital from the western Albusdorf to the eastern Fatandira. However, the wise and charitable, yet ambitious and quick-minded, Hugo II is an able leader and will hopefully lead Stygia to glory, even though he was forced to spend most of his life in the court of Imperial Talabecland, as the imperial consort of his wife, the Empress of Talabecland.

Spoiler:

Show

Meanwhile, the Empire is in shambles. Imperial Talabecland has been reduced to a few cities and forts. Imperial Reikland exists as a one-town oddity. Imperial Westerland holds Reikland, Wissenland and Nordland, but not Westerland. Imperial Middenland is in ascendancy. Although, Ostland successfully gained independency from Middenland, its elector declared for Nurgle and summoned an army of daemons to aid him. Despite this alarming event, the emperors of the Empire are content to sit and wait, while the apostate gains strength.

After the failure of Vlad von Carstein to conquer the Empire, he retreated to Sylvania and has been engaged in domestic issues ever since.

Spoiler:

Show

It has become clear to the von Wissens and their followers that the lax morality and multi-religious nature of the Empire doomed it. Hugo I declared not his claim to holy Sigmar's throne when he crowned himself emperor, but rather his goal of building a new empire, a 'Zweites Reich'. To avoid the pitfalls of the 'First Empire', Stygia has become a land of religious fanaticism. Sigmarite Witch Hunters scour the land mercilessly, burning all who do not follow Sigmar. Taalites, Ulricans, Myrmidians and the followers of other gods are treated in the same manner as Chaos cultists. Their temples razed, their clergy slaughtered. Crazed preachers and flagellants roam the towns and villages, proclaiming the divinity of Sigmar and that the von Wissen family are his holy instruments. After Hugo I's death, some even took up venerating him as an avatar of Sigmar. While historians and the nobility knew that Hugo I was hunchbacked in life, his devoted followers depict him as a perfect image of Sigmar and burn all who say otherwise. Both Hugo I and Hugo II exploited this atmosphere of insane fanaticism to increase the authority of the Emperor. The nobles of Stygia are little more than lapdogs of the von Wissen, careful to not step out of line, in case an unruly mob tries to lynch them for sacrilege.

And what does the fractured Empire think of this nascent Second Empire? While they looked down upon the Stygians for decades, many nobles of the Empire now fear and respect their might. As the fortunes of the imperial lands decline, the fortunes of Stygia seem to increase endlessly. In the lands of Wissenland, it has become a custom to send young noblemen to Stygia to experience the burgeoing frontier lands. And from all corners of the Empire, Sigmarites who lost their fortunes in civil war emigrate ceaselessly to the less densely populated Stygia. And what of the Grand Theogonist? He is, of course, unnerved by the political ramifications that Stygian Sigmarites are causing by their extreme intolerance of other faiths. Yet, the Stygian faithful still nominally answer to the Grand Theogonist, and he fears that censure might lead to a schism. A schism that the crafty Grand Theogonist can ill-afford. The cunning priest knows that the time of the Empire is slowly fading, and Stygia might become the future center of the Sigmarite faith.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

I don't think your pictures are working, but that sounds like an epic story!

[Malistrae]

I don't think your pictures are working, but that sounds like an epic story!

Hmmm... Don't they? I can see them just fine. But I will replace them with imgur-based ones. That should do the trick. And thanks for the appreciation of the story!

The Border Principalities are one of the more interesting starting locations in Geheimnisnacht. You have exiled imperial nobles, exiled Brettonian nobles, Norscan adventurers, Strigoi and their Strigany minions, beastmen, Sartosan pirates, etc. all congregating in one relatively cramped place with the constant threat of Greenskins looming in from the Badlands to the south. Of course, by the time of this report, I have displaced the majority of these guys. Except Vorag Bloodytooth, the damn Strigoi keeps popping up like some sort of mushroom. Whenever I render him landless, he always manages to get a territory near mine with some weird shenanigans. And all the witch hunters I send after him (the mod replaces assassination plots with 'hunt down' plots for monstrous characters, which has different mechanics than the regular one) end up eaten, or return empty-handed.

Edit: Replaced the images with imgur ones.

[Grytorm]

Clicking wasn't working earlier, don't know why. My Ireland start didn't go well. Just reached the third lord and I am still stuck on one province. I briefly had two then the stupid Dublin Vikings took it from my brother while I was trying to take it from my brother. And my current best county to expand into has about 2000 troops from a host. Should I restart or keep trying?

[Spacewolf]

Huh cool Warhammer mod does it do much with the mechanics etc or is it just a map pack? I'm getting alittle bored of my Portuguese empire game, I think after becoming King the game kind of falls apart. (Does the councillors DLC do anything to combat this?)

[Artanis]

I'm getting alittle bored of my Portuguese empire game, I think after becoming King the game kind of falls apart. (Does the councillors DLC do anything to combat this?)

Eh, sort of. It gives another lever for you and your vassals to use against each other, and makes your council actually relevant to your internal politics as you choose between having competent councilors vs. keeping your five strongest vassals from getting pissy.

If anything, the addition* of defensive coalitions does more to keep the game fresh longer, because eventually people start ganging up to stop you instead of not caring about the 83rd OPM you've eaten that week.



*Edit: Clarification. This was in the patch, not the DLC.

[Spacewolf]

Yea I've sort of noticed that system, but it seems to drop far to quickly. Possibly because I've mainly been fighting holy wars.