Crusader Kings 2 Thread III: Keeping Up With The Karlings

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Clicking wasn't working earlier, don't know why. My Ireland start didn't go well. Just reached the third lord and I am still stuck on one province. I briefly had two then the stupid Dublin Vikings took it from my brother while I was trying to take it from my brother. And my current best county to expand into has about 2000 troops from a host. Should I restart or keep trying?

Ireland 867 is hard. When people refer to Tutorial Island they mean 1066 only

[TheTeaMustFlow]

Huh cool Warhammer mod does it do much with the mechanics etc or is it just a map pack?

The mod makes a lot of mechanical changes, such as the magic system(s), various species, and numerous racial government types.

[Malistrae]

Huh cool Warhammer mod does it do much with the mechanics etc or is it just a map pack? I'm getting alittle bored of my Portuguese empire game, I think after becoming King the game kind of falls apart. (Does the councillors DLC do anything to combat this?)

Absolutely. It introduces some massive changes mechanically. A vast amount of new traits, events and other unique mechanics. The magic and necromancy system is fully functional, as is 95% of the races. Some still need some fleshing out, but almost everyone can be played with in a fluff-appropiate manner. One of the newer updates, for instance, added full functionality (including new events, CBs and the like) to non-'Von Carstein' vampires, making Necrarchs, Strigois, Lahmias and other more exotic vampire bloodlines completely playable.

And in Geheimnisnacht, the game never falls apart once you reach a certain level of power. Why? Because there are tons of methods the game can cause you trouble. Cultists, for example. You never know usually which courtier or vassal is a chaos worshipper (although having witch hunters around can usually increase the chances of ferreting one out). And with time, these cultists can 'infect' the rest of your realm, do plots that can cause massive problems for you (making rebellions more likely, spreading disease, increasing the chance of mutation of everyone born in the area, etc.), and eventually rise up and declare their allegiance openly, possibly with daemonic reinforcements. Of course, you can take the opposite approach, and become a worshipper yourself (depending on your traits, the Big Four and Undivided Chaos can periodically tempt you and NPCs through an event chain). Gain enough favour, perform the unholy rituals and serve your patron without reservation, and you might become a champion, a chosen and eventually, a Daemon Prince! Also, to make matters worse, the more wars, deaths, plots and plagues occur in the world, the stronger will Chaos become. This is a massive problem, because it means more people will be tempted by Chaos, cultists can more easily succeed in their unique, highly negative, plots, etc. Worst of all, an increase in the power of Chaos can potentially herald the crowning of a new Everchosen. The Everchosen can unite the anarchic hordes of the Chaos Wastes through an event chain, and will proceed to lead a vast horde to conquer the lands to the south. It's basically a huge red flag for everyone.

[Manticoran]

Absolutely. It introduces some massive changes mechanically. A vast amount of new traits, events and other unique mechanics. The magic and necromancy system is fully functional, as is 95% of the races. Some still need some fleshing out, but almost everyone can be played with in a fluff-appropiate manner. One of the newer updates, for instance, added full functionality (including new events, CBs and the like) to non-'Von Carstein' vampires, making Necrarchs, Strigois, Lahmias and other more exotic vampire bloodlines completely playable.

And in Geheimnisnacht, the game never falls apart once you reach a certain level of power. Why? Because there are tons of methods the game can cause you trouble. Cultists, for example. You never know usually which courtier or vassal is a chaos worshipper (although having witch hunters around can usually increase the chances of ferreting one out). And with time, these cultists can 'infect' the rest of your realm, do plots that can cause massive problems for you (making rebellions more likely, spreading disease, increasing the chance of mutation of everyone born in the area, etc.), and eventually rise up and declare their allegiance openly, possibly with daemonic reinforcements. Of course, you can take the opposite approach, and become a worshipper yourself (depending on your traits, the Big Four and Undivided Chaos can periodically tempt you and NPCs through an event chain). Gain enough favour, perform the unholy rituals and serve your patron without reservation, and you might become a champion, a chosen and eventually, a Daemon Prince! Also, to make matters worse, the more wars, deaths, plots and plagues occur in the world, the stronger will Chaos become. This is a massive problem, because it means more people will be tempted by Chaos, cultists can more easily succeed in their unique, highly negative, plots, etc. Worst of all, an increase in the power of Chaos can potentially herald the crowning of a new Everchosen. The Everchosen can unite the anarchic hordes of the Chaos Wastes through an event chain, and will proceed to lead a vast horde to conquer the lands to the south. It's basically a huge red flag for everyone.

Dude this sounds AWESOME. Where can I find this?

[SZbNAhL]

Dude this sounds AWESOME. Where can I find this?

Here's the Steam Workshop page.

[Malistrae]

Here's the Steam Workshop page.

Just don't forget to download it directly from the Paradox forums, as the description states. The workshop version is not really functional.

Dude this sounds AWESOME. Where can I find this?

Also, glad you like it. I am a huge fan of Geheimnisnacht, but for some reason, it is not as visible as some other famous mods like GoT or Elder Kings. The devs have put a lot of effort into it, and their attention to detail is astounding. Not only from a gameplay perspective, but also from a visual one. The amount of custom graphics is insane. Even the holdings have wildly different graphical designs.

Edit: Also, I forgot to mention that even exotic factions like Lizardmen and Tomb Kings are playable. And yes, you can be Settra or Arkhan.

[Spacewolf]

Just don't forget to download it directly from the Paradox forums, as the description states. The workshop version is not really functional.


Also, glad you like it. I am a huge fan of Geheimnisnacht, but for some reason, it is not as visible as some other famous mods like GoT or Elder Kings. The devs have put a lot of effort into it, and their attention to detail is astounding. Not only from a gameplay perspective, but also from a visual one. The amount of custom graphics is insane. Even the holdings have wildly different graphical designs.

Edit: Also, I forgot to mention that even exotic factions like Lizardmen and Tomb Kings are playable. And yes, you can be Settra or Arkhan.

Hmm sounds good do you need all the DLC to run it or just some?

[Malistrae]

Hmm sounds good do you need all the DLC to run it or just some?

I think it depends on what you want to play as. The Chaos Wastes hordes use pseudo-Horse Lords mechanics, for example, so I think that you would need Horse Lords to play as them. Republics are also probably no-go if you don't have the DLC. The rest I am unsure about, since Geheimnisnacht uses a ton of custom governments. I always keep up-to-date with the major DLCs, so I never looked into it. The forums might have some answers for that somewhere.

But it's worth giving a shot, even if you only get to play as Brettonians or Imperials or whatever.

[Spacewolf]

I think it depends on what you want to play as. The Chaos Wastes hordes use pseudo-Horse Lords mechanics, for example, so I think that you would need Horse Lords to play as them. Republics are also probably no-go if you don't have the DLC. The rest I am unsure about, since Geheimnisnacht uses a ton of custom governments. I always keep up-to-date with the major DLCs, so I never looked into it. The forums might have some answers for that somewhere.

But it's worth giving a shot, even if you only get to play as Brettonians or Imperials or whatever.

Ok given it a download but there's no readme file, so where do I shove the folder? Is it just an overwrite of the files in the steam Common folder for CK2 or something more?

[Manticoran]

Ok given it a download but there's no readme file, so where do I shove the folder? Is it just an overwrite of the files in the steam Common folder for CK2 or something more?

In your CK2 main folder, you put a folder called "mod", then put it in there. When you start up CK2, where you select your DLC, there's another one that says "Mods". Go check the mod, and when you start, it'll be running the WHFB version.

[Malistrae]

Ok given it a download but there's no readme file, so where do I shove the folder? Is it just an overwrite of the files in the steam Common folder for CK2 or something more?

Certainly don't do that. Go look up your Paradox Interactive/Crusader Kings II folder in your Documents folder. Within that, there should be a folder called "mod" (if you don't have one, create one). The geheimnisnacht folder and the geheimnisnacht.mod file should go into this. Then, you can select Warhammer:Geheimnisnacht when you start the launcher. There should be an option to select mods besides the DLC button. Just don't forget to roll-back to 2.4.5! Geheiminisnach is not yet compatible with Conclave.

Edit: you can do the roll-back like this: http://i.imgur.com/1ChQqTF.png
Also, don't forget to uncheck Conclave in the launcher if you have it.

[Spacewolf]

So got that all working and started off as a duke in Westerland, the join one of the chaos gods things seems to be abit strange. I think I succeeded in a plot to convert someone but the plot never finished and since it's a hidden attribute I can't tell if it worked, also how do you check your cult level? I donated some money and it said the cult level went up but I don't know what effect that has, is there anyway to tell?

[Malistrae]

So got that all working and started off as a duke in Westerland, the join one of the chaos gods things seems to be abit strange. I think I succeeded in a plot to convert someone but the plot never finished and since it's a hidden attribute I can't tell if it worked, also how do you check your cult level? I donated some money and it said the cult level went up but I don't know what effect that has, is there anyway to tell?

Wow, you got the chaos temptation event pretty quickly! Unfortunately, due to game limitations (the game can't display hidden attributes even to the one that has them), you can't check your cult level. However, when you get enough, you will get promoted in an event! There are two promotions available. Once you get to the top level (for Slaanesh, I distinctly remember that it is High Magus), you will be able to do a specific rite that is dependent on your patron to gain tons of favour. Favour is super-important, because that's the one you will need to achieve a high enough level of, to declare your allegiance openly to your patron. You will get a lot of daemons as event troops (yes, the mod includes daemons as a type of rather strong special troops) and will automatically declare war on your liege when this happens (you get to be independent when you win). Your religion will also openly change to your patron. This will make you lose the benefits that come with being a cultist (since you openly worship Chaos now), but dependent on your patron, you will get several new gameplay options to play with. You also have to be an open Chaos follower to get the Champion -> Chosen -> Daemon Prince event chain (which is mostly dependent on favour with your patron but also your traits, for example, Slaanesh won't make you a champion if you are Chaste).

My suggestion would be trying to expand your influence within Imperial Westerland. Then, when you become High Magus/whatever, start an independence faction. Gain independence, and then become an open worshipper. This way, you can avoid the pitfalls of waging a war alone against the Westerlander Empress/Emperor.

[Grytorm]

Ireland 867 is hard. When people refer to Tutorial Island they mean 1066 only

What makes it so much harder? Just the presence of so many vikings? Since I have complained about it I guess I should take it seriously. In some ways it does seem easy but in other ways not I guess.


On the Warhammer mod, that sounds pretty cool. I'm weird and don't normally like Chaos in Warhammer something something thread I read something something inverted Nagash. But looking at it from a top down perspective and it sounds pretty cool.

[Spacewolf]

Wow, you got the chaos temptation event pretty quickly! Unfortunately, due to game limitations (the game can't display hidden attributes even to the one that has them), you can't check your cult level. However, when you get enough, you will get promoted in an event! There are two promotions available. Once you get to the top level (for Slaanesh, I distinctly remember that it is High Magus), you will be able to do a specific rite that is dependent on your patron to gain tons of favour. Favour is super-important, because that's the one you will need to achieve a high enough level of, to declare your allegiance openly to your patron. You will get a lot of daemons as event troops (yes, the mod includes daemons as a type of rather strong special troops) and will automatically declare war on your liege when this happens (you get to be independent when you win). Your religion will also openly change to your patron. This will make you lose the benefits that come with being a cultist (since you openly worship Chaos now), but dependent on your patron, you will get several new gameplay options to play with. You also have to be an open Chaos follower to get the Champion -> Chosen -> Daemon Prince event chain (which is mostly dependent on favour with your patron but also your traits, for example, Slaanesh won't make you a champion if you are Chaste).

My suggestion would be trying to expand your influence within Imperial Westerland. Then, when you become High Magus/whatever, start an independence faction. Gain independence, and then become an open worshipper. This way, you can avoid the pitfalls of waging a war alone against the Westerlander Empress/Emperor.

So far I've become the Magus of Slannesh, and taken over about 1/3rd of Nordland. Unfortunately my guy is too Honest to make a faction and is getting old so I think I'll die before I can do anything more, adding to this none of my kids are Worshippers and with gavelkind succession I'm busy in the usual kill all but one of my children section of the game. Think I might make a rush for High Magusship and either independence or to take over Nordland since the Empress is busy fighting with Middlhelm at this point.

[Malistrae]

What makes it so much harder? Just the presence of so many vikings? Since I have complained about it I guess I should take it seriously. In some ways it does seem easy but in other ways not I guess.


On the Warhammer mod, that sounds pretty cool. I'm weird and don't normally like Chaos in Warhammer something something thread I read something something inverted Nagash. But looking at it from a top down perspective and it sounds pretty cool.

You don't have to be Chaos. You don't even need to deal with it usually if you go to somewhere distant from it and play with a race that isn't suspectible to temptation. Like Tomb Kings. Also, even regular Empire/Brettonia/Tilea/Estalia/Araby/Sartosans/whatever human nobles don't need to deal with it constantly. Except if you live near the north. And Nagash is thankfully dead at the time period the game is set in.

For instance, in my own Stygian Empire, I have a long-standing suspicion that at least a third of my vassals are members of a Slaaneshi cult (since almost all are hedonistic, lustful, etc.). But they haven't done much, besides drunken partying and regular philandering (which is why I can't say that they are cultists with 100% certainity). The cult that is actually causing trouble is a Tzeentchian one (since poisoning wells with warpdust is their M.O.). Unfortunately, they seem to have infiltrated my family, as almost a quarter of my dynasty is born with beaks and third eyes (again indicating Tzeentch's influence). Of course, this makes the fundamentalist nature of my country hilariously hypocritical. The rulers preach about faith and zealousness, while their own households and vassals wallow in filth.

So far I've become the Magus of Slannesh, and taken over about 1/3rd of Nordland. Unfortunately my guy is too Honest to make a faction and is getting old so I think I'll die before I can do anything more, adding to this none of my kids are Worshippers and with gavelkind succession I'm busy in the usual kill all but one of my children section of the game. Think I might make a rush for High Magusship and either independence or to take over Nordland since the Empress is busy fighting with Middlhelm at this point.

Definetly try to get openly Chaos worshipping ASAP. If you have enough favour, you could get a Champion of X trait, and those give you bonus health, allowing you to persist for longer.

Edit: Sorry, I saw that you serve Slaanesh. His champion trait doesn't give a large health bonus, but it could still prolong your life for a few decade for a little longer.

[Spacewolf]

You don't have to be Chaos. You don't even need to deal with it usually if you go to somewhere distant from it and play with a race that isn't suspectible to temptation. Like Tomb Kings. Also, even regular Empire/Brettonia/Tilea/Estalia/Araby/Sartosans/whatever human nobles don't need to deal with it constantly. Except if you live near the north. And Nagash is thankfully dead at the time period the game is set in.

For instance, in my own Stygian Empire, I have a long-standing suspicion that at least a third of my vassals are members of a Slaaneshi cult (since almost all are hedonistic, lustful, etc.). But they haven't done much, besides drunken partying and regular philandering (which is why I can't say that they are cultists with 100% certainity). The cult that is actually causing trouble is a Tzeentchian one (since poisoning wells with warpdust is their M.O.). Unfortunately, they seem to have infiltrated my family, as almost a quarter of my dynasty is born with beaks and third eyes (again indicating Tzeentch's influence). Of course, this makes the fundamentalist nature of my country hilariously hypocritical. The rulers preach about faith and zealousness, while their own households and vassals wallow in filth.


Definetly try to get openly Chaos worshipping ASAP. If you have enough favour, you could get a Champion of X trait, and those give you bonus health, allowing you to persist for longer. What is your char's patron?

Slannesh, I hope they update it to the newest Ver of CK soon I think the interface is much easier on the eyes. (Random thought to pad out word count.)

[Malistrae]

Slannesh, I hope they update it to the newest Ver of CK soon I think the interface is much easier on the eyes. (Random thought to pad out word count.)

Okay, in order to get the Champion of Slaanesh event, you need to be openly worshipping Slaanesh, not be chaste, and have at least 10 favour with him. Also, 150 prestige and piety at minimum. The mean time to happen is 120 months, but the more piety and favour you have, greater the chance of it happening sooner.

Edit: Once you are champion, you can start making progress to Chosen, which will give you a larger health bonus. Unfortunately, you are likely too old to reach Princedom (since you need tons of favour, piety and prestige for it), but if you can get some of your children corrupted, they could carry on your legacy.

Edit 2: Also, if you are an open Slaanesh worshipper, you get some very nasty options to play with. Like forcibly taking courtiers as pet consorts of any gender, race or age. And then do horrible things with them for prestige and piety. Thankfully, the descriptions are short and non-graphic, but it is still very creepy. Like when you can force one of your consorts to make love with your favorite stallion (and can join him/her and get a massive prestige and piety boost in the process). The Slaanesh religion also allows incestual marriages, obviously.

[Spacewolf]

Yea my guy died all the stuff I'd collected got tossed out the window, I really hate Gavelkind succession. Especially since it's basically impossible to get rid of.

[Malistrae]

Yea my guy died all the stuff I'd collected got tossed out the window, I really hate Gavelkind succession. Especially since it's basically impossible to get rid of.

That's an unfortunate situation. But let's be honest here, being a Chaos worshipper within the Empire was never going to be a very likely road to success. Although the elector-count of Ostland somehow made it work in my game...

I feel your pain about Gavelkind succession, though, that is absolutely the worst succession. Why don't you try out a longer-lived (or perhaps immortal) race? We have dwarves, chaos dwarves, several different breed of vampires, three type of elves, Tomb Kings and Greenskins. At least these are the ones I can think of at the moment.

[Spacewolf]

That's an unfortunate situation. But let's be honest here, being a Chaos worshipper within the Empire was never going to be a very likely road to success. Although the elector-count of Ostland somehow made it work in my game...

I feel your pain about Gavelkind succession, though, that is absolutely the worst succession. Why don't you try out a longer-lived (or perhaps immortal) race? We have dwarves, chaos dwarves, several different breed of vampires, three type of elves, Tomb Kings and Greenskins. At least these are the ones I can think of at the moment.

Hmm might do although I would like to try and crush one of the empires from the inside, but I guess they are all gavelkind which is a shame. I take it there is the same weird issue with the other races as I noticed with the empire people I.E. why would an empire duke need a reason to kill a vampire and take his stuff.

[Malistrae]

Hmm might do although I would like to try and crush one of the empires from the inside, but I guess they are all gavelkind which is a shame. I take it there is the same weird issue with the other races as I noticed with the empire people I.E. why would an empire duke need a reason to kill a vampire and take his stuff.

Well, I think you can declare holy wars against vampires as an Imperial. In my current playthrough, I just declared a Sigmarite Holy War on Vorag Bloodytooth, so it's definetly a non-issue for independent imperials. Greenskins can also be warred against without much difficulty, since everyone (except Necrarchs) automatically get Greenskin Extermination CBs against them. Same for beastmen and stuff. As long as there are neighbours who are sufficiently different from you, you can get easy casus bellies against them.

Also, don't try to conquer Necrarchs (I assume you saw some, since Melkhior is not far from Nordland). It takes tons of time (the fort levels of Necrarch towers are very high) and they only have one near-worthless province. And sometimes they get a little overzealous with necromancy and spawn huge undead armies. Thankfully, they are not expansionist, so they will leave you alone if you don't bother them.

[Spacewolf]

Heh I made a Necrarch my tributary in the last game I declared war and he instantly caved to my demands for some reason, he was quite useful in a later battle. Mainly because I'm assuming that they have some sort of raise the slain as allies ability because my little 2000 person army beat a 6000 person army admittedly it was pretty much wiped out in the effort but still quite impressive.

There are beastmen in this game? I had a look round the Wood Elves areas but couldn't see one to play as, are they any good? Have you tried the Lizardmen as well because I was thinking of going for them but it seems like they are quite out of the way.

[Malistrae]

Heh I made a Necrarch my tributary in the last game I declared war and he instantly caved to my demands for some reason, he was quite useful in a later battle. Mainly because I'm assuming that they have some sort of raise the slain as allies ability because my little 2000 person army beat a 6000 person army admittedly it was pretty much wiped out in the effort but still quite impressive.

There are beastmen in this game? I had a look round the Wood Elves areas but couldn't see one to play as, are they any good? Have you tried the Lizardmen as well because I was thinking of going for them but it seems like they are quite out of the way.

Necrarchs are just weird like that.

Beastmen are... interesting. They have some unique CBs, several events, traits, a unique form of government and holdings and some restrictions (they can't use some of the character focuses). There is a large concentration in southern Brettonia, not far from Athel Loren. They are also in the Stygian Woods (north of the Badlands, easternmost area of the Border Principalities). There are some in the Chaos Wastes. A few are also scattered around the map. I personally consider them a hard-mode race. While being successful with them is totally possible, they are very 2nd tier, just like in the fluff.

Lizardmen are pretty strange. The Slann are always sleeping, the Sauruses are only good for war, so you are playing as Skinks. They have regular lifespans but don't marry or sire kids. Instead, new dynasty members spawn from the spawning pool. I also noticed that some have a negative trait called "Defective" or something, with the description that they are not fulfilling their purpose (giving them an opinion malus with other lizzies). I haven't tried them out yet, so I can't comment too much.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Beast men are actually pretty cool iirc. They are rare, but powerful horde. They destroy buildings and holdings, and if they kill another beastman inherit their stuff iirc.

What makes it so much harder? Just the presence of so many vikings? Since I have complained about it I guess I should take it seriously. In some ways it does seem easy but in other ways not I guess.

Aye, Vikings. 1066 you're generally pretty safe from expansion, the Normans generally don't have too much interest in Ireland (unfortunately, historically speaking) and Scotland and the Isles are weak, preoccupied with each other and England. 867 you're surrounded by aggressive Vikings, all of whom are massively stronger than you, all of whom want your land. 1066 Ireland was Tutorial Island because it was full of roughly equal small powers to learn in a small scale before uniting the island and setting your sights on the other side of the Isles, without worrying about outsode interference.

[Malistrae]

Beast men are actually pretty cool iirc. They are rare, but powerful horde. They destroy buildings and holdings, and if they kill another beastman inherit their stuff iirc.

I dunno. Brettonia always bulldozes the southern Beastmen (which, if I remember correctly, is the largest horde) in my games. Those character focus restriction stuff is just so annoying.

On another note, playing as a Necrach is surprisingly like playing a weird slice-of-life game. Don't expand, just declare wars sometimes to get research samples, do some cool necromantic experiments, manage your courtiers, defend yourself from ambitious mortals, teach necromancy, sire new Necrarchs, etc. It is just relaxing and fun. It's also great that you can observe the world and see how things are moving along, while still being a part of the game.

[Artanis]

What makes it so much harder? Just the presence of so many vikings? Since I have complained about it I guess I should take it seriously. In some ways it does seem easy but in other ways not I guess.

The Vikings are a major part of it. Another big part is being tribal. So you basically wind up with dirt-poor holdings that can't adequately defend themselves from the screaming barbarians swarming over your shores and looting everything.

[Spacewolf]

Well, I think you can declare holy wars against vampires as an Imperial. In my current playthrough, I just declared a Sigmarite Holy War on Vorag Bloodytooth, so it's definetly a non-issue for independent imperials. Greenskins can also be warred against without much difficulty, since everyone (except Necrarchs) automatically get Greenskin Extermination CBs against them. Same for beastmen and stuff. As long as there are neighbours who are sufficiently different from you, you can get easy casus bellies against them.

Also, don't try to conquer Necrarchs (I assume you saw some, since Melkhior is not far from Nordland). It takes tons of time (the fort levels of Necrarch towers are very high) and they only have one near-worthless province. And sometimes they get a little overzealous with necromancy and spawn huge undead armies. Thankfully, they are not expansionist, so they will leave you alone if you don't bother them.

Do greenskin extermination Casus Bellis need to be gotten by your councillor still? They are not showing up outright atleast for me.

Edit, just played a game where I was winning against a slightly more powerful foe when the Elves decided to just show up on the enemies side, even though they didn't have any reason to. Meanwhile I couldn't call in my allies for some some reason the button seemed to think there wasn't a war for them to be brought into.

In other news a 20000 strong Vampire army attacked the Empire but was somehow defeated and Manfread captured.

[Grytorm]

Its not that I don't want to be Chaos, it is that a lot of the time Chaos seems like an uninteresting black and white villain in a weird fantasy setting. But depicting them as an insidious threat is a pretty interesting alternative. Also the reference to Nagash wasn't about him in particular in relation to the mod, mostly it was about some thought I had imagining the ordered creation Nagash would create and the Chaos gods which would arise to oppose him.

[Guancyto]

What sort of goodies do you get for being Khornate in that game?

Because you know. Blood for the blood god, Harriers for the cup, etc.