Crusader Kings 2 Thread III: Keeping Up With The Karlings

[Leecros]

One thing you have to learn in CK is to take a step back at times. The "goal" is for your family to survive and preferably grow.

I thought the goal of Crusader Kings II was that "Byzantine China is inevitable."

[Artanis]

I thought the goal of Crusader Kings II was that "Byzantine China is inevitable."

It's only inevitable if the "we want China!" whiners become too much louder than the "OMFG India made my computer melt into a pile of smoldering goo!" crowd.

[Leecros]

I was using it more as an allegory for World Conquest.


Even though, personally I wouldn't mind a China DLC....

[Trekkin]

I just had my bastard vassals elect some other turd on elective monarchy. So when he inherited, my heir kept all of his lands but was only a double duke now. This put me a bit over the holding limit. So I immediately declared war on the new king before my levies could deplete due to the penalty.

Mopped them up pretty quick, and my chosen heir took the throne as well as threw a bunch of his new vassals in prison as part of the surrender agreement.

This is part of the reason I think people generally treat (Elective) Gavelkind succession with more dread than it merits. Provided your primary title is the only title of its rank you own, the realm stays intact of its own accord; otherwise, having many children means the wars to reunify the realm go swiftly (since they have few titles each, and generally don't all choose to leave).

It's annoying, but hardly unworkable, and is a good excuse to incarcerate your siblings.

[The Great Wyrm]

While playing as the Emperor of Carpathia, I gained the Kingdom of Bohemia as a vassal. I discovered a plot where the heir to the kingdom was plotting to kill his father (the king). I imprisoned the heir.

The king now has a -50 "Imprisoned my child" opinion penalty towards me, and promptly started an Independence faction. I guess he just feels really grateful . . .

[Crow]

This is part of the reason I think people generally treat (Elective) Gavelkind succession with more dread than it merits. Provided your primary title is the only title of its rank you own, the realm stays intact of its own accord; otherwise, having many children means the wars to reunify the realm go swiftly (since they have few titles each, and generally don't all choose to leave).

It's annoying, but hardly unworkable, and is a good excuse to incarcerate your siblings.

I found the easiest way to handle elective gavelkind is to just keep conquering, which if you're someone stuck with elective gavelkind shouldn't be a problem. As king, keep just one duchy and conquer one non-dejure county for each son that isn't your heir. Your heir gets the duchy and all of it's de jure territory, and each son gets a county abroad where they can begin to forge their own realms if they chose to go independent.

[Leecros]

While playing as the Emperor of Carpathia, I gained the Kingdom of Bohemia as a vassal. I discovered a plot where the heir to the kingdom was plotting to kill his father (the king). I imprisoned the heir.

The king now has a -50 "Imprisoned my child" opinion penalty towards me, and promptly started an Independence faction. I guess he just feels really grateful . . .

Well, just because you knew about it...doesn't mean he does. Now, why couldn't you just tell him? No idea...maybe he doesn't believe you?

[OrcusMcP]

Well, just because you knew about it...doesn't mean he does. Now, why couldn't you just tell him? No idea...maybe he doesn't believe you?

It could also be some realpolitik action. Maybe the king had no love for the son, but this is the perfect excuse to get his politics moving. Or maybe it's a Tywin Lannister move where the family takes care of its own.

[Avilan the Grey]

Well thanks to the count of Dal (the son of the man I conquered) getting stupid trying to get a claim on my duchy... I am now the ruler of his domain and his family is noble no more.
His father, after forgiving me, became Marshal and we shared close friendly bond. His son pissed it all away for nothing.

[Leecros]

So...I'm getting a new computer today and I didn't want to start a new CKII game for fear that there might be some issue in transition.

However, I still had the urge to play CKII, so I decided to take some time and derp around in some of the later start dates that I don't typically play. I decided to see if I could operate as the Latin Empire and see how far I could get.

Then something interesting happened.

Spoiler

Show

Pisa won a crusade against the Andalusians

Now i'm curious to see where they go with it. Also a bit confused. It seems as if lately(Since like Horse Lords, or earlier) it's far more likely for a weaker nation, or holy order to win a great holy war of some sort than it used to be. I saw it in my India game as well when the Teutonic Order conquered a heretic Italy.

[Crow]

Now i'm curious to see where they go with it. Also a bit confused. It seems as if lately(Since like Horse Lords, or earlier) it's far more likely for a weaker nation, or holy order to win a great holy war of some sort than it used to be. I saw it in my India game as well when the Teutonic Order conquered a heretic Italy.

The pope screwed me over the other day. Was leading in points during a crusade for the kingdom of Jerulsalem and my stack was taking down a territory next to a combined english and papal stack that was taking down another. Then a big muslim stack arrived and attacked the combined english and papal force. They were going to lose handily, but I wouldn't be able to handle them either, so I immediately marched my troops to join the fight.

They were able to turn the tide.

Unfortunately though, since it was the English troops who were initially involved in the battle, they got all the credit for the victory. This gave them *just* enough points to take the lead on the crusade chart. Muslims surrender, and bastard pope gives the kingdom of jerulsalem to the king of England.

[Artanis]

In the past, sieging (not necessarily even taking, just sieging) gave enough points that my typical strategy was basically to sail up and down the coast swatting smaller squads and besieging random provinces while letting the big boys fight the low-contribution but high-casualty battles. I'd pretty much only get involved with fighting doomstacks if I was sure I could crush them and/or if the Crusade would fail otherwise.

However, it's been quite a while since I participated in a Crusade (I'm too addicted to Catharism's ability to make the female HALF OF MY COURT actually useful*), so I don't know if that still works.


*"Wow, you're a Brave Genius with level 4 Martial education and a 21 Martial stat? You'd make a great commander if you weren't too busy being a girl."

[Manticoran]

Aaaaaand now you understand why the Crusades had so many politics and backstabbing involved. :D

[Crow]

Aaaaaand now you understand why the Crusades had so many politics and backstabbing involved. :D

I've already decided that when the mozzies come marching back, I'm going to let that ***hole burn.

[Dire Ferret]

I've already decided that when the mozzies come marching back, I'm going to let that ***hole burn.

Perhaps that unrighteous attitude is why the Pope decided not to hand Jerulsalem to you. Can't you just be happy that the Holy Land is now in the hands of the faithful?

[Crow]

Perhaps that unrighteous attitude is why the Pope decided not to hand Jerulsalem to you. Can't you just be happy that the Holy Land is now in the hands of the faithful?

Good point. :D

...and No.

[Avilan the Grey]

So... queen at last.
I ALWAYS forget to change the damn ambition to "Become Queen Of XX". Because usually it happens so quickly.

Basically it's always the Game Of Thrones version of "Life Is What Happens To You While You Are Busy Making Other Plans". I was trying to make sure my son would have a large power base to force himself into kinghood, and then the opportunity to take over the country just fell into my lap.

[Leecros]

I think my favorite usurpation was when the Byzantine Emperor's daughter fled to my court during a civil war for the throne...Or at least, that's the way i roleplayed it. I don't really know why she was at court, but she had just came of age and I could marry her off. So I married her to my heir and threw her hat into the ring for Empress and won. Thus a generation later I was Basileus.


The other was a similar situation except I was Zoroastrian Emperor of Persia trying to find a solution to the Purple Menace. i ended up finding a female zoroastrian courtier who had a strong claim on the Empire, so I sacrificed my divine blood bonus and married her and pressed her son/my heir's claim. I still don't know what her story was, or why she decided to become a Zoroastrian. However, Byzantium and Persia had been trading duchies for decades. So i'm sure one of the wars probably displaced her.

[The Great Wyrm]

A similar thing happened in my Empire of Carpathia game. I actually started as a count in Sicily, and then became a duke. I had a claim on the Kingdom of Hungary, but my army wasn't big enough to press it. Then, a daughter of the Basileus showed up at my court. She wasn't the heir to the empire, but I married her to one of my sons. With the alliance, I proceeded to stomp over all my enemies, and form the Empire of Carpathia. Eventually (through some strategic assassinations) I was able to get my dynasty stably onto the throne of the empire, and still have them remain Catholic. It's nice having them as a reliable ally, but it's annoying getting called in to their civil wars every 15 years.

[IthilanorStPete]

Any advice for handling the Byzzies as Khazaria in 769? I decided to give them a shot to mess around with Horse Lords. Day 1, the ERE declares a holy war for Crimea and defeats me pretty comprehensively. Best think I can think of is to build my strength by expanding elsewhere, but I'd appreciate any handy tips.

[Avilan the Grey]

So... yeah.

Is it me or is this DLC (or patch coming with it) very buggy?
Far more bugs than in any other I have experienced; small things like some of the tooltips writing out debugging information (like ID:s etc) to big things like a character in a faction having diplomatic immunity indefinitely even after their ultimatum has been rejected. Had to solve that one by editing the savefile by hand...

Anyway... My heir, who I had no direct control over, suddenly just up-and-left his wife, the Duchess of Uppland to join the Templars. Just like that.
Not the best thing to happen when you have an elective monarchy.

Turns out our relationship was high enough that i could just invite him back to my court and re-nominate him. He couldn't go back to his wife and 6 kids though, since he had taken to Celibacy. Moron as he is.
At least his ex-wife immediately threw herself behind him again, and I now have the same heir to the kingdom as before. And since already have offspring, that is not a worry either.
So now he is my spiritual advisor.

Oh and then the duchess of Uppland died and my grandson became the new one... And immediately cost me 30 gold to get him back in the green since he wasn't on the council, the ungrateful bastard.

[Leecros]

Any advice for handling the Byzzies as Khazaria in 769? I decided to give them a shot to mess around with Horse Lords. Day 1, the ERE declares a holy war for Crimea and defeats me pretty comprehensively. Best think I can think of is to build my strength by expanding elsewhere, but I'd appreciate any handy tips.

Luck...really is the best piece of advice that I can give. When dealing with the Byzantines that early while you're that weak, the best thing you can hope for is that they somehow decide to leave you alone until you get strong enough to at least push them back.

So... yeah.
Is it me or is this DLC (or patch coming with it) very buggy?
Far more bugs than in any other I have experienced; small things like some of the tooltips writing out debugging information (like ID:s etc) to big things like a character in a faction having diplomatic immunity indefinitely even after their ultimatum has been rejected. Had to solve that one by editing the savefile by hand...

I have noticed minor things like the first one...even in events and things that I didn't think were changed. However, I have only heard of the whole diplomatic immunity thing.

[Avilan the Grey]

I have noticed minor things like the first one...even in events and things that I didn't think were changed. However, I have only heard of the whole diplomatic immunity thing.

ThAt one apparently was discovered and patched out about a year after release AFAIR but apparently it's back.

[Avilan the Grey]

Stuck right now.
I can't expand anymore until my Tech level is higher (the Pagan attrition is killing me).

So... For the moment a rather boring game.

[Tentreto]

This is a question that has been bothering me for while...
During a game playing as a powerful Duke in Germany, I decided to join a fellow Duke in a crown authority revolt upon being invited, not wanting to be ruled by a theocracy...
Anyway, midway through the war, I suddenly realised that, somehow, I had become independent. I remember no pop up or anything. This would have been ok if I did not control territory contested by two other nations. In effect, to survive, I had to reaffirm my oath to the King-bishop, then fight my fellow Duke, whose side I had previously been on. This is still the most baffling thing I have seen happen. Was I just made independent for some great AI tactic?

[Flickerdart]

Any advice for handling the Byzzies as Khazaria in 769? I decided to give them a shot to mess around with Horse Lords. Day 1, the ERE declares a holy war for Crimea and defeats me pretty comprehensively. Best think I can think of is to build my strength by expanding elsewhere, but I'd appreciate any handy tips.

I had a very successful Bulgaria > Carpathia game where the ERE and Hungary were at my throat the entire time. Some advice:

• Paint your flag white: Never fight defensive wars. Surrender as soon as the AI will accept; you'll lose land you'd have lost anyway, but you keep your troops intact. With intact troops, you can declare war against your weaker, crappier enemies, and replace what you lost (and then some). Against Tengri this is even more important - that way they don't have a chance to use their Invasion CB's ability to pick up land outside what they declared war over to begin with.
• False is better than faithless: When you're on the wrong end of a holy war, you have the option to convert. This is a great option if you're 80 and your heir is a stalwart pagan, because you'll revert to your original religion as soon as your ruler dies (or is assassinated). If you don't bother sending out missionaries, you shouldn't lose too much ground.
• Deflect, deflect, deflect! Plant your chancellor's lips firmly on the ass of the Basileus. You probably can't afford to send gifts to an Emperor level guy, but those +30 opinion boosts can add up. Use your spymaster to create vulnerable targets (whether outside or inside the ERE) so there's always a juicier target than your rubbish steppe lands. As a last resort, release vassal Counts along the border to create buffer states, so the ERE has to take them county by county instead of grabbing entire duchies at a time.
• Keep an eye on the politics: The Magyars were a god-like force of all-consuming destruction... until Arpad (the starting ruler's pre-genned overpowered heir) dies. Then Hungary imploded on itself and I got my sweet revenge. Do the same thing - bide your time until a popular, powerful Basileus is replaced by a weak, unpopular child. This typically comes along with revolts (and stealing land from rebels is a tried and true tactic that always works) but even without revolts, the Empire's levy will fall dramatically. Don't give them a chance to replenish it.

[Leecros]

Anyway, midway through the war, I suddenly realised that, somehow, I had become independent. I remember no pop up or anything. This would have been ok if I did not control territory contested by two other nations. In effect, to survive, I had to reaffirm my oath to the King-bishop, then fight my fellow Duke, whose side I had previously been on. This is still the most baffling thing I have seen happen. Was I just made independent for some great AI tactic?

Perhaps he was over his vassal limit?

[Tentreto]

Perhaps he was over his vassal limit?

Possibly, though as it was literally me and that Duke(who was revolt leader) so it seems unlikely he would release me. Only reason that does make sense though... in which case, that Duke had it coming...

[Spacewolf]

So you joined a revolt to lower crown authority, then during he war you tried to become his vassal again? Or has the war already finished by that point and you found yourself randomly on the outside of the kingdom?

[Tentreto]

So you joined a revolt to lower crown authority, then during he war you tried to become his vassal again? Or has the war already finished by that point and you found yourself randomly on the outside of the kingdom?

I was revolting with a Duke against the King-Bishop. I realised after a little that I was independent. I then swore fealty to the King-Bishop to protect my realm, and then cleared up the crown authority war as I was now actually on the regime side.

The war hadn't ended...I only realised my independence when I realised my wars were gone from the bottom while the revolt still existed...