Crusader Kings 2 Thread III: Keeping Up With The Karlings

[Artanis]

IIRC: Most event-spawned troops in the base game eventually despawn (after like 10-20 years, usually), but it's because they get an event that despawns them. You can set disband_on_peace in the spawn_unit command, which makes the troops despawn if the war they're connected with ends, but you can't set a duration; you can only do that by adding another event that uses the disband_event_forces command. So it depends on whether the makers of the mod added that second event.

I can't find anywhere that does that in the various files, so I guess I get to decide between declaring Game Over or trying to console-remove a bunch of the event troops so that I can keep playing this round

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Well crap.

Anybody know when/if event-based hordes eventually lose their event troops? Because in my After the End game, I just got kicked out of New England by a horde with more troops than the next eight largest militaries combined

It's a known issue with AtE that the British are brutally strong and don't despawn properly.

[Artanis]

It's a known issue with AtE that the British are brutally strong and don't despawn properly.

Ah, good to know. I wonder if/when they plan to do something about it.

I think I'll use the console to give myself stupid amounts of cash, hire every single mercenary, and pick a fight to see if I can grind them down. It's too bad that massive, blatant cheating is the only way to avoid having to just give up on the game

[TheTeaMustFlow]

Ah, good to know. I wonder if/when they plan to do something about it.

I think I'll use the console to give myself stupid amounts of cash, hire every single mercenary, and pick a fight to see if I can grind them down. It's too bad that massive, blatant cheating is the only way to avoid having to just give up on the game

An easier option might be to just console over to the British and delete their event troops.

[Artanis]

An easier option might be to just console over to the British and delete their event troops.

Unfortunately, they're a Theocracy, so unless AtE changes "Theocracy = Game Over", that isn't an option. I think there is - or at least used to be - console commands that might let me negate the event troops in some way (such as by teleporting them to Brazil), but I can't seem to find the proper ones and/or the info I need to input.


Note: I have indeed looked on the wiki. The moveunit command either no longer works or else requires info that would involve digging through the save files to get a half-dozen 7-digit numbers

[Anxe]

Converting and vassaling yourself isn't an option?

[SZbNAhL]

I know next to nothing about console commands so this may be a stupid suggestion, but wouldn't it be easier to summon your own event troops directly than to give yourself a load of cash and then hire mercs?

[Eldan]

Eh, the command for cash is just e.g. "cash 5000". For event troops, you'd probably need to know an event number.

If an event breaks, as sometimes happen, I actually tend to opt for the "imprison" command, take the leader of the event troops hostage and force a peace.

[Artanis]

Converting and vassaling yourself isn't an option?

No, we're both Empire-level.

Eh, the command for cash is just e.g. "cash 5000". For event troops, you'd probably need to know an event number.

If an event breaks, as sometimes happen, I actually tend to opt for the "imprison" command, take the leader of the event troops hostage and force a peace.

I wound up just going with the "buy all the mercenaries and bludgeon them to death" plan. I would give myself the cash, pick a fight over something minimal (like 1 county), then run around trying to get them to fight me until I ran out of troops. Then I'd console-imprison the guy and sue for peace. After 3 repetitions (and something like 40K console-gold), they were finally down to where a Crusade could finish them off.

I just wish it hadn't had to be that way. I mean, it would've been interesting if they had a remotely reasonable number of troops or if they'd eventually despawn. But a permanent, no-maintenance, low-attrition force big enough to go toe-to-toe with the entire map was...yeah

[SZbNAhL]

Eh, the command for cash is just e.g. "cash 5000". For event troops, you'd probably need to know an event number.

If an event breaks, as sometimes happen, I actually tend to opt for the "imprison" command, take the leader of the event troops hostage and force a peace.

Ah, okay. I figured there's be a "spawn troops" command or something, but I guess if there isn't then the cash plan's simpler.

[TheTeaMustFlow]

Ah, okay. I figured there's be a "spawn troops" command or something, but I guess if there isn't then the cash plan's simpler.

For vanilla and most mods, event 62320 (which spawns event troops and ships scaled to your max levy for a prepared invasion) works well.

[Flickerdart]

As is tradition, CK2 is 75% off for the Steam Sale - $10 for the game itself, and $40 for the game plus a boatload of DLC.

[Leecros]

So after several attempts, I finally managed to unite the Mongols pre-1066 and a little disappointed that there was no achievement for it.
Although admittedly what impresses me more is the state of Europe.

Spoiler

Show

I have never seen a more consolidated pre-1066 start date Europe. You have the Russians consolidating, a nearly historical HRE, a United England and even a fairly large Kingdom of Lithuania.

There are still some ugly parts...Germany gained independence from the HRE at the turn of the century and many of the bigger blobs have smaller chunks throughout them from minors that they haven't eaten just yet, but still not too shabby.

[Aotrs Commander]

So, as I really just don't feel like taking another shot at Stellaris and either going back and finding saves to see if I can in fact reload enough years past the scourge event I can build sufficient forces or to restart... After a very long internal debate on whether to start a new SotS 2 game or my first Crusader Kings II game, I decided for the latter.

And this time, I am going to be insane, ignore the warning recommendations and start as the Bzantine Empire (after replacing their king with someone more... suitable...) The end-goal is world conquest imported through into EUIV as the Roman Empire. So the short-mid-term goal is to form the Roman Empire, with the longer term to do as I did with my first EUIV playthrough with Portugal, and conquer first all the coasts, off-shores and then move steadily inland. That longer term goal may not get very far in CKII (though as I'll be starting from the earliest date, giving me a nice-long run-up). (This will be played with all expansions except Horse Lords and Conclave.)

(After I've done the tutorial.)

Advice suggestions, etc would be welcome...

[Anxe]

In my current multiplayer game with a friend I have learned one new thing about world conquest. If you have two Empire titles and you can destroy one of them, do it. Doesn't matter how terrible the other one is. Unity before collapse.

[Eldan]

So, as I really just don't feel like taking another shot at Stellaris and either going back and finding saves to see if I can in fact reload enough years past the scourge event I can build sufficient forces or to restart... After a very long internal debate on whether to start a new SotS 2 game or my first Crusader Kings II game, I decided for the latter.

And this time, I am going to be insane, ignore the warning recommendations and start as the Bzantine Empire (after replacing their king with someone more... suitable...) The end-goal is world conquest imported through into EUIV as the Roman Empire. So the short-mid-term goal is to form the Roman Empire, with the longer term to do as I did with my first EUIV playthrough with Portugal, and conquer first all the coasts, off-shores and then move steadily inland. That longer term goal may not get very far in CKII (though as I'll be starting from the earliest date, giving me a nice-long run-up). (This will be played with all expansions except Horse Lords and Conclave.)

(After I've done the tutorial.)

Advice suggestions, etc would be welcome...

Okay, so. As the byzantines.

Stay the hell away from the Abbassids or any muslims, early on. The Abbassids will stomp you into the dirt every war until they break up. Instead, wage holy war on the slavs in the Balkans, they are easy to take. To take Armenia, Syria, the Holy Land and Egypt, wait for Rebellions and attack those. Egypt rebels a lot, use it to take Alexandria.

Fabricate a claim on Rome right away, you can do that right away. The pope is very weak early on, if you're lucky, you can catch him without allies and get Rome back without much war.

Have a very close eye on your Dukes. You start without King-level vassals and all your Dukes are actually vice-dukes, so to speak, and you get the titles back when they die. However, tehy will form Factions all the time, and you may get a faction to depose you or for 2/3 of your lands to declare independence that have three times as many troops as you.

When you have the money, form the Exarchates of Anatolia and Greece, later Bulgaria, Croatia and Sicily. They are vice-kings that you also get back upon death and make administration a lot easier.

[Malimar]

In my current multiplayer game with a friend I have learned one new thing about world conquest. If you have two Empire titles and you can destroy one of them, do it. Doesn't matter how terrible the other one is. Unity before collapse.

There is a reason to keep multiple Empire titles -- each one contributes a butt-ton to your prestige and your dynastic prestige.

However, never have more than one top-level title if they have different successions or their successions are gavelkind, elective gavelkind, elective, or tanistry.

Late game, my habit is often to conquer a huge swathe of land, create the relevant empire, hand the empire off to a relative, then repeat elsewhere. One largish empire is about the biggest I like to bother maintaining, but putting your dynasty in control of the world is a worthy goal, and once you've done it a couple times you've got your very own version of the Karling Clown Car.

[Artanis]

So, as I really just don't feel like taking another shot at Stellaris and either going back and finding saves to see if I can in fact reload enough years past the scourge event I can build sufficient forces or to restart... After a very long internal debate on whether to start a new SotS 2 game or my first Crusader Kings II game, I decided for the latter.

And this time, I am going to be insane, ignore the warning recommendations and start as the Bzantine Empire (after replacing their king with someone more... suitable...) The end-goal is world conquest imported through into EUIV as the Roman Empire. So the short-mid-term goal is to form the Roman Empire, with the longer term to do as I did with my first EUIV playthrough with Portugal, and conquer first all the coasts, off-shores and then move steadily inland. That longer term goal may not get very far in CKII (though as I'll be starting from the earliest date, giving me a nice-long run-up). (This will be played with all expansions except Horse Lords and Conclave.)

(After I've done the tutorial.)

Advice suggestions, etc would be welcome...

One thing to note is that from what I've heard, Stellaris is the first Paradox game that has a remotely decent tutorial. Seriously, don't bother with CK2's tutorial. Instead, start as the Duke of Munster (in southern Ireland) in the 1066 start date. There is a reason why Ireland is called "tutorial island" among CKII players: you can get a feel for the mechanics and workings of the game WITHOUT being crushed instantly. Once you know what the hell is going on, THEN you can start whatever you want...but trying to figure out how to handle vassals and CK2's CBs and such on the fly while thousands of troops are flooding in from the Abbasid doomblob probably won't end well

Just make sure it's the 1066 start date if you do this. The earlier start dates usually involve Ireland being covered in Vikings, fires, and Viking-related fires.

[Grif]

Just make sure it's the 1066 start date if you do this. The earlier start dates usually involve Ireland being covered in Vikings, fires, and Viking-related fires.

...

Is that a bad thing?

[Artanis]

...

Is that a bad thing?

Only if you've never played CK2 before.

Later, you can rush to feudalism, conquer Ireland, and then have fun running around swatting Vikings with troop-filled ships that can react to anywhere on the coast in a week or less

[Aotrs Commander]

One thing to note is that from what I've heard, Stellaris is the first Paradox game that has a remotely decent tutorial. Seriously, don't bother with CK2's tutorial. Instead, start as the Duke of Munster (in southern Ireland) in the 1066 start date. There is a reason why Ireland is called "tutorial island" among CKII players: you can get a feel for the mechanics and workings of the game WITHOUT being crushed instantly. Once you know what the hell is going on, THEN you can start whatever you want...but trying to figure out how to handle vassals and CK2's CBs and such on the fly while thousands of troops are flooding in from the Abbasid doomblob probably won't end well

Just make sure it's the 1066 start date if you do this. The earlier start dates usually involve Ireland being covered in Vikings, fires, and Viking-related fires.

Well, I already did do the tutorial...

And I've literally spent some hours reading the wiki and fiddling about with the Ruler generator and about to start Doing Stuff, we'll just see how it goes.



And so begins the oddessey of the dynasty of Rubyhasta, under the leadership of the aging Mortispoliare, of Roman descent. A strong, attractive and just genius, with a sturdy constution and a knack for diplomacy, his only slight flaws are the fact he may have accidently killed everyone else in his dynasty a little bit on his bloody purge to the throne.

He also might just have contracted just a touch of leprosy as well, but that's neither here nor there. So long as his limbs function well enough to do the job (first off, he will go BREED LIKE CRAZY)...

[Rockphed]

Well, I already did do the tutorial...

And I've literally spent some hours reading the wiki and fiddling about with the Ruler generator and about to start Doing Stuff, we'll just see how it goes.



And so begins the oddessey of the dynasty of Rubyhasta, under the leadership of the aging Mortispoliare, of Roman descent. A strong, attractive and just genius, with a sturdy constution and a knack for diplomacy, his only slight flaws are the fact he may have accidently killed everyone else in his dynasty a little bit on his bloody purge to the throne.

He also might just have contracted just a touch of leprosy as well, but that's neither here nor there. So long as his limbs function well enough to do the job (first off, he will go BREED LIKE CRAZY)...

I look forward to hearing about his conquest of Europe!

[Malimar]

He also might just have contracted just a touch of leprosy as well, but that's neither here nor there. So long as his limbs function well enough to do the job (first off, he will go BREED LIKE CRAZY)...

Starting with a disease is always risky, especially one that reduces fertility like leprosy. You stand an unfortunate chance of dying before you get a chance to breed.

[Aotrs Commander]

I look forward to hearing about his conquest of Europe!

Yeah, that plan went down like a lead balloon. Apparently, you can't just slot a custom ruler into the Bzantine Empire. Not only does it not give you Born in the Purple, you get a malus for short reign instead of a bonus for long reign (so that's -20 opnion before you start) but all sorts of other problems. (Even with me renouncing iconoclasty right out of the gate, because Mortisoliare wasn't zealous.)

Didn't even make five years into the game before I'd had two massive factions. The first demand edelective monarchy (which was fine, I let them have that, since I would have switched to that already had it not said "nope, got to be ten years in power") and then corwn authority... And there was simply no way I could fight these revolts, since I had no time to build up enough of my own troops in five years. Trying to renouce the titles of the viceroyalties only made the revolt as well, and then the rest STILL made their demands.

I finally did a comparison between the starting conditions between the two leaders. Notably, the guy that for Mortisoliare was at, like, -75 opinion was about +25 for the default; the default had only one guy at -50 and most of the rest of the negative were signle digits. So apparently, a custom ruler is just too massive a difference to be able to manage a large empire with no starting funds or time to have iterated at the problem.

Basically, then, you can't actually make a better ruler than whathisface V with the ruler generator (you can't even recreate him, actually, I tried to see how much leeway to improve I had; he must have gotten rid of all his own negatives during his reign); never mind not being able to get the stat points, it doesn't give you like-for-like for replacing him, unfortuntely.

So plan A is out. So it comes down to either Plan B (use the default and just customise the house as much as I can) or Plan C, custom ruler elsewhere and then have to conquer the Bzantine Empire to be able to form Rome. (And that probably means I a) don't start with the imperial gubbins already passed and b) can't blind/castrate people, whch is a big disappointment...)

Starting with a disease is always risky, especially one that reduces fertility like leprosy. You stand an unfortunate chance of dying before you get a chance to breed.

As suggested by the wiki, though, it was countered by Strong (plus 6 points of diect boost to take me 5.1).

He was a strong, attractive, genius, just, kinslayer leper with +2 points of diploamcy and +6 points of health. (And even with the drag factor of Everythiing Going Prearshaped, I'd still managed 2-3 kids before the first five years were out...!) He was, strictly, a fracking amazing leader. It just kinda didn't matter, since without the starting funds/piety and/or time to deal with the factions, there just wasn't any way of stopping things falling apart FAST enough.

[Eldan]

Honestly, the default Emperor in 700-something is actually pretty good. He has something like 20 martial mostly good stats and a decent heir

[Spacewolf]

Yea starting as ruler of Byz Empire isn't really what I'd recommend it might look easy since you already own alot of land but it's an absolute mess, it's pretty rare to even see the AI hold it together. Plus you miss out on the best part of the game in my opinion the rise from count to king, after that it's just ticking numbers off from my experience. Personally I'd recommend starting as a count/duke in the Iberian area.

[Aotrs Commander]

Honestly, the default Emperor in 700-something is actually pretty good. He has something like 20 martial mostly good stats and a decent heir

Evidently. Just goes to show, sometimes you can't optimise for your playstyle and improve on the default. Pretty rare that's the case (most games defaults are pretty crappy), but EUIV and CKII appear to be some.

Yea starting as ruler of Byz Empire isn't really what I'd recommend it might look easy since you already own alot of land but it's an absolute mess, it's pretty rare to even see the AI hold it together. Plus you miss out on the best part of the game in my opinion the rise from count to king, after that it's just ticking numbers off from my experience. Personally I'd recommend starting as a count/duke in the Iberian area.

I REALLY want to form the Roman Empire, though.


Whelp. Let's try plan B and see how that goes...


Come to think of it, it took me tutorial plus one aborted attempt to get anywhere with Portuga in EUIV and I managed pretty well in the end...



FRAG this game could just a "load" button on the main menu. I have having to quit out to the main menu to load a game...

[Grif]

Yeah, that plan went down like a lead balloon. Apparently, you can't just slot a custom ruler into the Bzantine Empire. Not only does it not give you Born in the Purple, you get a malus for short reign instead of a bonus for long reign (so that's -20 opnion before you start) but all sorts of other problems. (Even with me renouncing iconoclasty right out of the gate, because Mortisoliare wasn't zealous.)

Didn't even make five years into the game before I'd had two massive factions. The first demand edelective monarchy (which was fine, I let them have that, since I would have switched to that already had it not said "nope, got to be ten years in power") and then corwn authority... And there was simply no way I could fight these revolts, since I had no time to build up enough of my own troops in five years. Trying to renouce the titles of the viceroyalties only made the revolt as well, and then the rest STILL made their demands.

I finally did a comparison between the starting conditions between the two leaders. Notably, the guy that for Mortisoliare was at, like, -75 opinion was about +25 for the default; the default had only one guy at -50 and most of the rest of the negative were signle digits. So apparently, a custom ruler is just too massive a difference to be able to manage a large empire with no starting funds or time to have iterated at the problem.

Basically, then, you can't actually make a better ruler than whathisface V with the ruler generator (you can't even recreate him, actually, I tried to see how much leeway to improve I had; he must have gotten rid of all his own negatives during his reign); never mind not being able to get the stat points, it doesn't give you like-for-like for replacing him, unfortuntely.

So plan A is out. So it comes down to either Plan B (use the default and just customise the house as much as I can) or Plan C, custom ruler elsewhere and then have to conquer the Bzantine Empire to be able to form Rome. (And that probably means I a) don't start with the imperial gubbins already passed and b) can't blind/castrate people, whch is a big disappointment...)






As suggested by the wiki, though, it was countered by Strong (plus 6 points of diect boost to take me 5.1).

He was a strong, attractive, genius, just, kinslayer leper with +2 points of diploamcy and +6 points of health. (And even with the drag factor of Everythiing Going Prearshaped, I'd still managed 2-3 kids before the first five years were out...!) He was, strictly, a fracking amazing leader. It just kinda didn't matter, since without the starting funds/piety and/or time to deal with the factions, there just wasn't any way of stopping things falling apart FAST enough.

Reading this, I'd recommend starting a tier lower. Starting as a powerful duke in the Empire will be easier than an emperor. Once you put your lands to right (and you will need to at the start, in order to min-max properly), you can set your eye on the throne by marrying into the family and/or forcing an elective monarchy so that you can put your Grey Eminence son on the throne.

[Malimar]

So plan A is out. So it comes down to either Plan B (use the default and just customise the house as much as I can) or Plan C, custom ruler elsewhere and then have to conquer the Bzantine Empire to be able to form Rome. (And that probably means I a) don't start with the imperial gubbins already passed and b) can't blind/castrate people, whch is a big disappointment...)

Unless they changed it when I wasn't looking, the ability to blind/castrate is a function of culture. Start as any Byzantine culture and you should be able to do it.

[Aotrs Commander]

Well, hey, I've made it into, like the sixth year now!

I splashed a load of titles and cash around at the start, and I have managed to keep on top of the factions, if mostly by this time through correct use of my spymaster to make them not into factions. I've hit off several wars, the most recent a holy war for Antioch. Venice is also now under my control. Sadly, a load of the pagsn formed up a defensive pact (whoops), so I better leave of the conquests for a while - give me a bit more time to build up.

My second son turned out to be a dozy, and I managed to get him married off to a genius... So, when my idiot vassals deciding to change their nomnation to my eldet (probably because his only decent stat was diplomacy), I excommunicated him.

Now we will just hold and play for time and money for a bit, let the threat creep down a bit before I go smack anyone else (even though there are some options)...



The biggest bugger? Despite picking scholarship focus, I have yet to be able to build an observatory to lose zealous, so my idiot priests have been doing a bang-up job converting everyone to iconoclasty... And as because as soon as I can, I need to onvert to orthodoxy (wants me my viking guard later...) they're just going to all have to be converted BACK again.

That's gonna be a good conversation ain't it?

*Priest sheepishly walks into church*

"So... Um... Hey. You know how last week, I was 'round and I was all, like, 'you need to destroy all the religious imagery' and whatever and we smashed it all up? So... yeah... Turns out it's okay now. Um...I... brought glue...?"



...

And of course, NOW I say that, I can see I can build an observatory right now.

*skulldesk*

*skulldesk*

*SKULLDESK*