I'll NEVER Die! (A Guide to the 5E Barbarian)

[MustacheFart]

Then you are willfully letting your personal bias prevent you from outlining and giving proper merit to all of the available options. That downgrades this guide from being a "guide about Barbarians" to a guide about "how NeoSeraphi thinks Barbarians should be played".
The former is obviously a more useful tool than the latter.

I honestly figured this out from his first post when I saw all the "manly" stereotypical crap. It's evident that, like many others, he falls into the same pitfalls of barbarian backed by ridiculous assumptions made by people over the years supported only by mis-interpretations of rules and notions of non-existent rules.

As someone trying to fight such stereotypes I appropriately dismissed this guide as incomplete and invalid.

[Enoan]

My current character is Erarod, the lawful good Dragonborn Barbarian-8 and Rouge-2. Got some fun abilities, as a totem warrior of the goat, a totem my DM home brewed, I get some nice things. It is working out well, and, depending on situation, weild either my greataxe or a rapier. Totem of the goat seem inferior to the other totems, but is a lot of fun (includes wallwalker).

[MaxWilson]

Inspiring Leader: Once per long rest, you can spend ten minutes giving your team up to 25 temporary hit points. It's nice. But it's not that nice.

Once per short rest. It's approximately as good as Healer.

[PoeticDwarf]

Why is frenzy red, one niveau goes away when you finish a long rest. It is THE ability of a berserker, if you want to be the damage dealer. You go for variant humand with GWM, and go for a possible damage of 6d6+48, with reckless attack...

[LordVonDerp]

Why is frenzy red, one niveau goes away when you finish a long rest. It is THE ability of a berserker, if you want to be the damage dealer. You go for variant humand with GWM, and go for a possible damage of 6d6+48, with reckless attack...

Two reasons.
One, the penalty is too high, exhaustion is a serious penalty and fixing it is a waste of spells. So the only time you'll really use it is when you know you can rest afterwards.
Two, most barbarians worth their salt already have a guaranteed bonus action attack anyway, so the benefit from frenzy is somewhat pointless.

[Squeak]

New barbarian player here. I was thinking of making a Half-Orc Totem Barbarian with a 27 point initial stat layout of:

STR 15+2
DEX 14
CON 14+1
INT 8
WIS 12
CHR 8

This would let me take two level -ups in stats to end up with STR 20 and CON 16 (before capstone) while still allowing me to have 3 juicy feats. My first thought was Polearm Master and Great Weapon Master but I am not sure what might be a good final feat - perhaps Lucky, Sentinel or Mageslayer or even just another +2 into CON. I also considered going Dwarf for 3 Feats with 18 CON and 10 WIS, or Human where I could get 4 feats with 16 CON.

Any thoughts or advice?

[Strill]

New barbarian player here. I was thinking of making a Half-Orc Totem Barbarian with a 27 point initial stat layout of:

STR 15+2
DEX 14
CON 14+1
INT 8
WIS 12
CHR 8

This would let me take two level -ups in stats to end up with STR 20 and CON 16 (before capstone) while still allowing me to have 3 juicy feats. My first thought was Polearm Master and Great Weapon Master but I am not sure what might be a good final feat - perhaps Lucky, Sentinel or Mageslayer or even just another +2 into CON. I also considered going Dwarf for 3 Feats with 18 CON and 10 WIS, or Human where I could get 4 feats with 16 CON.

Any thoughts or advice?

Swap STR and CON. 14+2 STR and 15+1 CON. It gives you extra health earlier with no drawbacks.

[MaxWilson]

New barbarian player here. I was thinking of making a Half-Orc Totem Barbarian with a 27 point initial stat layout of:

STR 15+2
DEX 14
CON 14+1
INT 8
WIS 12
CHR 8

This would let me take two level -ups in stats to end up with STR 20 and CON 16 (before capstone) while still allowing me to have 3 juicy feats. My first thought was Polearm Master and Great Weapon Master but I am not sure what might be a good final feat - perhaps Lucky, Sentinel or Mageslayer or even just another +2 into CON. I also considered going Dwarf for 3 Feats with 18 CON and 10 WIS, or Human where I could get 4 feats with 16 CON.

Any thoughts or advice?

Lucky and Sentinel are both great defensive picks for a barbarian--but also consider Tough for the hilarity of a barbarian who simply will not die.

[Naanomi]

Hilldwarf level 20, can end up with 24/14/24 physical stats under standard point buy and still have toughness feat... Max HP go!

[dropbear8mybaby]

Had a half-orc barbarian in a game the other day that just refused to die. As the cleric in the party, I'd given him the benefit of Aid & Bless, so a second-level PC with 30 hit points and hitting things for 1d12+5 and 5 + 1d4 to hit. He managed to crit three times in one encounter doing 3d12 damage each time due to being a half-orc. Got dropped to -17 in one hit but of course, Relentless Endurance kicked in. Then he got knocked down again and I healed him back up with a Healing Word. Hit stuff, got knocked down. Rolled a natural 20 on a death saving throw, got back up. Then he got knocked down again and I used my entire Channel Divinity: Preserve Life on him to heal him up to 15. Kicked ass. Got knocked down again (he was soloing a massive earth elemental that was doing a ton of damage). Rolled a natural 20 on a death saving throw again.

It was hilarious :)

[Squeak]

New barbarian player here. I was thinking of making a Half-Orc Totem Barbarian with a 27 point initial stat layout of:

STR 15+2
DEX 14
CON 14+1
INT 8
WIS 12
CHR 8

This would let me take two level -ups in stats to end up with STR 20 and CON 16 (before capstone) while still allowing me to have 3 juicy feats. My first thought was Polearm Master and Great Weapon Master but I am not sure what might be a good final feat - perhaps Lucky, Sentinel or Mageslayer or even just another +2 into CON. I also considered going Dwarf for 3 Feats with 18 CON and 10 WIS, or Human where I could get 4 feats with 16 CON.

Swap STR and CON. 14+2 STR and 15+1 CON. It gives you extra health earlier with no drawbacks.

Great point, thanks!

Lucky and Sentinel are both great defensive picks for a barbarian--but also consider Tough for the hilarity of a barbarian who simply will not die.

Hilldwarf level 20, can end up with 24/14/24 physical stats under standard point buy and still have toughness feat... Max HP go!

I hadn't actually thought of the Tough feat and this could lead to hilarious situations - I think a 20th level Hill Dwarf with maxed 24 CON and racial benefits would end up, using the standard 7HP level ups, on:

(12+7) + 19*(7+7) + 40 = 325 HP

and effectively double that given rage, for an insane 650 EHP during combat. Ancient Red Dragons will have nothing on this barb. Well, except flying and even then there is always the Totemic Attunement of the Eagle ...


Also how dangerous is failing a WIS save, and how common are they at higher levels?


Because a more resilient(!) variant that occurred to me was a Mountain Dwarf with Polearm Master, Great Weapon Master and Resilient (WIS) with starting stats:

STR 15+2
DEX 12
CON 15+2
INT 8
WIS 13
CHR 8

This would end up at 20 STR 18 CON and 14 WIS before the capstone. Are WIS saves dangerous enough that this is a good idea? Because in this case I was thinking a Dwarf Fighter (I know shame on me) for 3*Indomitable might be a better choice. Or alternatively a Mountain Dwarf Barbarian going

STR 15+2
DEX 12
CON 15+2
INT 8
WIS 13
CHR 8

and ending up at 20 STR, 18 CON, 14 WIS but getting both Resilient (WIS) and Lucky.

So it really depends on how dangerous failing a WIS save is at higher levels, and how common they are. Any thoughts?


P.s. That was a hilarious story, dropbear8mybaby....

[Malifice]

Also how dangerous is failing a WIS save, and how common are they at higher levels?

Highly dangerous, and extremely common.

Doiminate effects and so forth. Anything that takes your mind over or makes you act against your will is wisdom.

It's the most important save alongside Con.

[NeoSeraphi]

Resilient (Wis) is always worth the feat, in my opinion.

[Squeak]

Also how dangerous is failing a WIS save, and how common are they at higher levels?

Highly dangerous, and extremely common.

Doiminate effects and so forth. Anything that takes your mind over or makes you act against your will is wisdom.

It's the most important save alongside Con.

Resilient (Wis) is always worth the feat, in my opinion.

So it looks like I should really get Resilient (WIS) then.

Then the question becomes is having the Lucky feat in addition the best choice or would I be better served by another +2 CON (so 16->18 CON) or +4 DEX (So 8->12 DEX)?

[endur]

lucky> resilent in my opinion.

This will vary depending on level and how much you do between long rests.

For a single die roll, lucky is better than resilient until you hit level 20.

Yes, lucky is restricted to only three die rolls, but how often do you take more than three will saves between long rests?

The other advantage of lucky is you can use it for anything. On days when you don't take will saves, lucky is still useful. It is particularly relevant for reducing enemy critical hits, helping with death saving throws, and just about anything else that could be going wrong.

[Squeak]

lucky> resilent in my opinion.

This will vary depending on level and how much you do between long rests.

For a single die roll, lucky is better than resilient until you hit level 20.

Yes, lucky is restricted to only three die rolls, but how often do you take more than three will saves between long rests?

The other advantage of lucky is you can use it for anything. On days when you don't take will saves, lucky is still useful. It is particularly relevant for reducing enemy critical hits, helping with death saving throws, and just about anything else that could be going wrong.

Interesting point - my perhaps naive assumption would be that at high levels enemy casters will have a DC around 8+prof+casting stat = 19.

Now a Barb without Resilient (WIS) would most likely have a WIS 14 (or less) so a Will save bonus of +2. So basically a 80% fail rate even with 14 WIS. And with lucky you get two chances so that the fail rate is still 64%.

However, a Barb with Resilient (WIS) and a WIS of 14 would have a Will save bonus of +8. So a 50% fail rate, which is not great but still noticeably better than with Lucky.

Of course a good point you raised is that lucky can use be used for anything, not just will saves. Still I assume saves tend to be the most vital application, and a Barb should really not be failing CON saves much while DEX saves (AFAIK) are mainly damage and with their insane HP, Danger Sense advantage on DEX rolls, and 50% damage reduction this shouldn't be a huge issue. So the question is do people think Lucky is worth getting in addition to Resilience(WIS) if this means that my CON is 'only' 16 before capstone?

Of course if I do get Lucky and Resilience (WIS) the only way to get 4 feats and still max STR is, as far as I know, to go variant human with

STR 15+1
DEX 12
CON 15+1
INT 8
WIS 13
CHR 8

[Arial Black]

I'm considering a variant human Bar2/Ftr1, with TWF style, Dual wielder feat and two longswords with reckless attack and rage.

Is it worth it?

I plan on increasing Bar to level 5, then Ftr to level 4 (Champion or Battlemaster?), then Bar all the way.

[endur]

Interesting point - my perhaps naive assumption would be that at high levels enemy casters will have a DC around 8+prof+casting stat = 19.

Now a Barb without Resilient (WIS) would most likely have a WIS 14 (or less) so a Will save bonus of +2. So basically a 80% fail rate even with 14 WIS. And with lucky you get two chances so that the fail rate is still 64%.

However, a Barb with Resilient (WIS) and a WIS of 14 would have a Will save bonus of +8. So a 50% fail rate, which is not great but still noticeably better than with Lucky.

level 17-20 (prof +6) is an edge case. To understand the real benefit of lucky vs. resilience, you need to look at the comparison at each level, including easy, typical, and hard saves. It is actually a distribution, see the example below where I treated lucky as advantage, where lucky is usually better than resilience for levels 1-12, and resilience is usually better for levels 13-20. Of course, this will itself depend on what sort of DCs your GM sends at you. Of course, you don't face many saving throws at low levels (so lucky's other uses are also more important -- you might take lucky at low level and take resilient at higher level when you face more saving throws). Your campaign might start at high level (in which case take resilient) or it may never reach high level (in which case lucky is clearly better).

Lucky is further restricted by only 3 per long rest, but you get to decide whether to use it after you roll the first die roll, so that alleviates the three per day restriction (i.e. decide after your roll low). EDIT: Also the numbers below aren't quite right -- Lucky isn't really advantage, you use it after you fail the first roll, so the real benefit of lucky is that you get your base success chance after failing the first time. i.e. if you fail the first time on a 20% success chance, you get another 20% success chance to succeed. It works out to seeming like the numbers below, but it is slightly different. There is also the possibility that you don't know what the DC is and lucky could result in you having a worse result when you re-roll a number you shouldn't re-roll.

Example (IF LUCKY WAS ADVANTAGE):
Very Hard: If the base saving throw is 20%, then lucky is worth a 16% increase.
Lucky is better for levels 1-8 and worse then resilience at levels 9-20.

Hard: If the base saving throw is 30%, then lucky is worth a 21% increase.
Lucky is better for levels 1-12 and worse then resilience at levels 13-20.

Typical: If the base saving throw is 40%, then lucky is worth a 24% increase.
Lucky is better for levels 1-12 and worse then resilience at levels 13-20.

Easy: If the base saving throw is 50%, then lucky is worth a 25% increase.
Lucky is better for levels 1-12, same at lvl 13-16, and worse then resilience at levels 17-20.

Very Easy: If the base save is 60%, then lucky is worth a 24% increase.
Lucky is better for levels 1-12 and worse then resilience at levels 13-20.

Super Easy: If the base saving throw is 70%, then lucky is worth a 21% increase.
Lucky is better for levels 1-12 and worse then resilience at levels 13-20.

Super, Super, Easy: If the base saving throw is 80%, then lucky is worth a 16% increase.
Lucky is better for levels 1-8 and worse then resilience at levels 9-20.

[Squeak]

Thanks for the detailed calculations, endur - it does seems that Lucky is probably better for the first 12 levels for Will Saves and has many other uses too.

I'll probably go for Resilient (WIS) simply because the extra +1 will get me an even score in WIS, but otherwise I can see your point that Lucky may well be the better option.

[Scroofy]

Hey everyone,

I am playing in my second campaign in a couple of weeks and want to play a barbarian. I was thinking of going mountain dwarf since it's a race that really appeals to me. I would like to run my starting build off and get some advice moving forward. I have the same dm as last game so I would expect to get to Lvl 15 or so. I plan on using a great axe and no armor for as long as it makes sense.

Str: 16+3
Dex: 14+2
Con: 16+3
Int: 8-1
Wis: 12+1
Cha:10+0

Should go for feats, or add to my ability points? Was thinking going gwf since everyone here seems to say it is good.

Cheers!

[Squeak]

Hey everyone,

I am playing in my second campaign in a couple of weeks and want to play a barbarian. I was thinking of going mountain dwarf since it's a race that really appeals to me. I would like to run my starting build off and get some advice moving forward. I have the same dm as last game so I would expect to get to Lvl 15 or so. I plan on using a great axe and no armor for as long as it makes sense.

Str: 16+3
Dex: 14+2
Con: 16+3
Int: 8-1
Wis: 12+1
Cha:10+0

Should go for feats, or add to my ability points? Was thinking going gwf since everyone here seems to say it is good.

Cheers!

Polearm Master is the highest DPS boost you can get for an ASI, as you get an extra attack with full damage modifiers per round which is a huge boost, not even mentioning its other goodies. Now if your STR and CON were both odd values, then maybe you could make a so-so case for boosting them by 1 each, but as it is definitely get the feat.

[Scroofy]

Polearm Master is the highest DPS boost you can get for an ASI, as you get an extra attack with full damage modifiers per round which is a huge boost, not even mentioning its other goodies. Now if your STR and CON were both odd values, then maybe you could make a so-so case for boosting them by 1 each, but as it is definitely get the feat.

Do I have to be wielding a pole-arm to take advantage of that feat or can it be anything?

[Squeak]

Do I have to be wielding a pole-arm to take advantage of that feat or can it be anything?

You have to be using a Polearm, so 1d10 damage rather than 1d12 or 2d6 base damage but the extra attack and other benefits are worth it.

[Coidzor]

Do I have to be wielding a pole-arm to take advantage of that feat or can it be anything?

From what I recall, the weapons it works with are explicitly listed out in the feat itself. I believe the only non-polearm weapon it works with is the quarterstaff which is still a pole. Probably meant to represent fighting with both ends of it during combat or something, but it also works when wielding it one-handed and wearing a shield, too, IIRC.

[Scroofy]

Thanks for the replies! I think I will do the Polearm Master. It just makes the motor St sense bang for buck

[MeeposFire]

From what I recall, the weapons it works with are explicitly listed out in the feat itself. I believe the only non-polearm weapon it works with is the quarterstaff which is still a pole. Probably meant to represent fighting with both ends of it during combat or something, but it also works when wielding it one-handed and wearing a shield, too, IIRC.

True but since we are talking about barbarians unless you are using a small character, in which case the quarter staff may just be your best weapon overall with a shield, you probably want to use a weapon with the heavy property since reckless attack really helps the great weapon feat.

[Asmotherion]

If you have 20 Str and the Dex barb has 20 Dex, then their damage should be 1d12+7 vs 1d8+5. If you can't use Reckless Attack, and you can't use the Rage Damage bonus from Rage, then how on earth could he out damage the Dex barb?

Your spreadsheet doesn't answer the question. If, at level 5, I have a Str 20 barb who does 1d12+7 while raging, and a Dex 20 barb who does 1d8+5 while raging, there is no way the Dex barb is outdamaging the Str barb.

Edit: Oh, you're talking about a Dex barb versus a Str barb. I don't care about that. Why would two barbarians fight each other? I'm going off the assumption that you're fighting, you know, monsters. Like you would at a table. In that case, Dex doesn't help you do either of your jobs (tanking or DPS) better than a Str barb does.

Because Barbarians are known to solve their diferences over a cup of tea...
This is hillarius in so many ways... like "why would two guys who's primary interest in life is bashing skulls would ever fight... they would probably sit on a table, and discuse their passion drinking tea and eating muffins" XD

Ok, I konw you mean that it won't happen on a regular table, but:

A) A lot of people make characters for duels.
B) Some DMs, myself included, build some NPCs as characters instead of taking them ready from the MM.
C) If two Barbarians are in the same party, what are the odds of them NOT fighting?

Still, I just wanted to make this comment, cause, when I saw it, I literally bursted into laughs. No critisicm or ill intention, just pure humor XD

[Coidzor]

True but since we are talking about barbarians unless you are using a small character, in which case the quarter staff may just be your best weapon overall with a shield, you probably want to use a weapon with the heavy property since reckless attack really helps the great weapon feat.

There is possibly something to be said for a one-handed quarterstaff wielded by a grappler barbarian who wants to get in more hits on an enemy after they've been grappled and shoved prone, or to get off extra attacks against non-grappled foes after locking down their grappled foe. Or a sword and board bearbearian who wants to consistently get a bonus action to use to attack with.

But for the most part, usually better to just go with one of the d10 polearm weapons between brutal critical and the like.

[MeeposFire]

There is possibly something to be said for a one-handed quarterstaff wielded by a grappler barbarian who wants to get in more hits on an enemy after they've been grappled and shoved prone, or to get off extra attacks against non-grappled foes after locking down their grappled foe. Or a sword and board bearbearian who wants to consistently get a bonus action to use to attack with.

But for the most part, usually better to just go with one of the d10 polearm weapons between brutal critical and the like.

Well except small characters cannot use those traditional polearms hence why I said for a small character the quarter staff is probably the best option since two handed weapons likely are not good enough without the great weapon fighting feat.

[Arcuriel]

A couple of comments:

1. Exhaustion goes down a level after each long rest. Frenzy isn't something to spam, but if you're fairly sure it's the last encounter of the day you don't really lose anything.

2. Mounted Combatant+Stout Halfling. Ride your friends. Force attacks on yourself. Even better with Retaliation, since you can guarantee the attack is going to you.