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Thread: Agent Carter

  1. - Top - End - #271
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    Default Re: Agent Carter

    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    So, the costume guy must've been the laziest researcher ever. In the scene with the girls watching Snow White (released a year after the alleged date of 1937, by the way), they are wearing an approximation of a Young Pioneer costume, so the costume designer must have known what it looked like...and then got it wrong on purpose?
    Spoiler: Scene
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    Spoiler: Young Pioneer
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    I guess someone told him "white shirts and red ties" and he found a bunch of 50s men's ties somewhere? They're not even ties, they're neckerchiefs...
    Maybe it's just the Russia version, or they only had man ties since they ran out?


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  2. - Top - End - #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaZodiac View Post
    Maybe it's just the Russia version, or they only had man ties since they ran out?
    The Young Pioneers began in the USSR, and were (are) internationally standardized besides.
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    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

  3. - Top - End - #273
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    Default Re: Agent Carter

    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    The Young Pioneers began in the USSR, and were (are) internationally standardized besides.
    Maybe they're just dressing them up like American's to be sleeper agents better?


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  4. - Top - End - #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    So, the costume guy must've been the laziest researcher ever. In the scene with the girls watching Snow White (released a year after the alleged date of 1937, by the way), they are wearing an approximation of a Young Pioneer costume, so the costume designer must have known what it looked like...and then got it wrong on purpose?

    I guess someone told him "white shirts and red ties" and he found a bunch of 50s men's ties somewhere? They're not even ties, they're neckerchiefs...
    just because you assume they were shooting for young pioneers that doesn't mean that's what they were going for.. I took it for a generic boarding school uniform.
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    I'd buy it if it were at the beginning stages of the show.. with only a couple episodes to go, it seems too elaborate a plot to not be solved in a rush job.
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  5. - Top - End - #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by dehro View Post
    just because you assume they were shooting for young pioneers that doesn't mean that's what they were going for.. I took it for a generic boarding school uniform.
    There was no such thing as a generic boarding school in Russia. Every single child was a Young Pioneer from 10 to 15, and there was a different standardized thing for younger (oktyabrenok) and older (komsomol) children.

    Like I said, they got the uniform so approximately correct that there's nothing else they could have been trying to do.
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    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

  6. - Top - End - #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    There was no such thing as a generic boarding school in Russia. Every single child was a Young Pioneer from 10 to 15, and there was a different standardized thing for younger (oktyabrenok) and older (komsomol) children.

    Like I said, they got the uniform so approximately correct that there's nothing else they could have been trying to do.
    actually no, that's not what is happening here at all.. this is not the first time in fiction that specialised russian spy formation centers have replicated american environments in order to help prospective sleeper/active agents to immerse themselves in the american culture. these kids were part of the black widow program, who are primarily spies, and only secondarily action heroines... they were watching american TV and learning the american pop culture references in order to prepare to pull of an impersonation like Dottie's... so I'm still voting for generic american boarding school impersonation.. plus handcuffs for creep out effect
    Last edited by dehro; 2015-02-05 at 10:30 AM.
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  7. - Top - End - #277
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    I wonder if and how this will tie in with Black Widow... I know that in the comics she's old enough to have been one of those kids, but I don't think they'll go that route here. Scarlet Johansson is 30, making Natasha at the oldest around 35 unless life extension shenanigans are involved. So to be tied to Leviathan's sleeper agent factory she'd have to have been either at the beginning of her training when the cold war ended or have been trained by whatever part of the organization survived the fall of the Soviet Union.
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  8. - Top - End - #278
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    Originally Posted by dehro
    this is not the first time in fiction that specialised russian spy formation centers have replicated american environments in order to help prospective sleeper/active agents to immerse themselves in the american culture.
    Exactly so. Anyone who ever watched I Spy remembers the Russian agents training to impersonate Scotty and Robinson.

    Originally Posted by thorgrim29
    I know that in the comics she's old enough to have been one of those kids, but I don't think they'll go that route here. Scarlet Johansson is 30, making Natasha at the oldest around 35 unless life extension shenanigans are involved.
    In Winter Soldier, Natasha is identified as having been born in 1984.

    Originally Posted dehro
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    these kids were part of the black widow program, who are primarily spies….
    Spoiler: Romanov
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    I know very little about Romanov apart from the recent movies, as well as her one-page entry in the old Marvel Universe series (ca. 1984, if that tells you anything). Has it been established in the comics, or in some corner of the MCU, that Romanov came out of a program like this?

    (There's her comment to Bruce Banner in The Avengers about how young she started, but I don't know if there's a whole supporting backstory in the comics.)


    Originally Posted by Flickerdart
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    In the scene with the girls watching Snow White (released a year after the alleged date of 1937, by the way)....
    Spoiler: Snow White
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    Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs premiered in December 1937 and was nationally released in February 1938.

    If the Spider Factory was going to all the trouble of preparing the girls to be flawless impersonators, it wouldn't have been too hard to smuggle out a copy in advance, so they could learn the movie right as it was being released.
    Last edited by Palanan; 2015-02-05 at 01:09 PM.

  9. - Top - End - #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    Exactly so. Anyone who ever watched I Spy remembers the Russian agents training to impersonate Scotty and Robinson.



    In Winter Soldier, Natasha is identified as having been born in 1984.



    Spoiler: Romanov
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    I know very little about Romanov apart from the recent movies, as well as her one-page entry in the old Marvel Universe series (ca. 1984, if that tells you anything). Has it been established in the comics, or in some corner of the MCU, that Romanov came out of a program like this?

    (There's her comment to Bruce Banner in The Avengers about how young she started, but I don't know if there's a whole supporting backstory in the comics.)




    Spoiler: Snow White
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    Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs premiered in December 1937 and was nationally released in February 1938.

    If the Spider Factory was going to all the trouble of preparing the girls to be flawless impersonators, it wouldn't have been too hard to smuggle out a copy in advance, so they could learn the movie right as it was being released.
    The issue is that Black Widow explicitly says she used to work for the KGB, which was dissolved in 1991.

    I suppose its possible that she could have been doing some spy work at 6 years old.

    IIRC, in the comics she's one of several characters who have received the Infinity Formula (Super-soldier serum light) which slows down the aging process. Most of the other Infinity Formula characters were explicitly tied to WWII, and checking the Wiki says that 616 Black Widow was alive during the battle of Stalingrad, but I'm not sure how relevant that has been recently.

    As for 616 Black Widow, just because the KGB was dissolved does not mean that things like the Red Room couldn't continue as a rogue splinter faction.
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  10. - Top - End - #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    Exactly so. Anyone who ever watched I Spy remembers the Russian agents training to impersonate Scotty and Robinson.
    it goes back a lot further than that though.. I'm pretty sure I've read several spy stories (fictional of course) from before the fall of the USSR, I'm thinking of various authors like Ludlum, to name one (not sure he did this, but someone of his renown, for sure).. where this was a common occurrence, with sometimes even entire villages built to look like your average place in the midwest, except located in Siberia, purely for training purposes.

    I just had a funny thought...
    they never caught creepy stabby kid..
    Spoiler: what if
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    ...SHE was agent Romanoff, in her early days?
    Last edited by dehro; 2015-02-06 at 05:29 AM.
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  11. - Top - End - #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by dehro View Post
    it goes back a lot further than that though.. I'm pretty sure I've read several spy stories (fictional of course) from before the fall of the USSR, I'm thinking of various authors like Ludlum, to name one (not sure he did this, but someone of his renown, for sure).. where this was a common occurrence, with sometimes even entire villages built to look like your average place in the midwest, except located in Siberia, purely for training purposes.

    I just had a funny thought...
    they never caught creepy stabby kid..
    Spoiler: what if
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    ...SHE was agent Romanov, in her early days?
    Was in at least one Mission: Impossible episode. With the agents pretending to be Russians learning to pretend to be Americans. Had George Takei as a guest star.

  12. - Top - End - #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by dehro View Post
    actually no, that's not what is happening here at all.. this is not the first time in fiction that specialised russian spy formation centers have replicated american environments in order to help prospective sleeper/active agents to immerse themselves in the american culture.
    You would have a point if American schoolchildren ever wore such ties, anywhere.
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    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

  13. - Top - End - #283
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    Originally Posted by dehro
    Spoiler: what if...
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    ...SHE was agent Romanoff, in her early days?
    Not likely, since it's already been established in the MCU that Natasha Romanoff was born in 1984.

    Spoiler
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    This is in Winter Soldier, when Cap and Romanoff discover Zola's computerized brain hidden beneath the first headquarters of the original S.H.I.E.L.D. Zola identifies Romanoff as having been born in 1984. This is confirmed by her MCU wiki entry as November 22, 1984.

    So, creepy stabby child assassin is someone else. The Spider Factory evidently cranks out a lot of them.


    Originally Posted by huttj509
    Was in at least one Mission: Impossible episode. With the agents pretending to be Russians learning to pretend to be Americans.
    Sounds like the same episode I mentioned earlier, although I don't recall Scotty and Robinson pretending to be their own doubles. But that's certainly something they would've done.

  14. - Top - End - #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    Not likely, since it's already been established in the MCU that Natasha Romanoff was born in 1984.

    Spoiler
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    This is in Winter Soldier, when Cap and Romanoff discover Zola's computerized brain hidden beneath the first headquarters of the original S.H.I.E.L.D. Zola identifies Romanoff as having been born in 1984. This is confirmed by her MCU wiki entry as November 22, 1984.

    So, creepy stabby child assassin is someone else. The Spider Factory evidently cranks out a lot of them.




    Sounds like the same episode I mentioned earlier, although I don't recall Scotty and Robinson pretending to be their own doubles. But that's certainly something they would've done.
    It doesn't necessarily crank out very many. I assume that they weed out a large number of candidates that just aren't the best of the best. We were explicitly shown one Widow trainee killing another during training.

    Out of that large room with what - about 30 girls in it? Dottie may have been the ONLY one to survive and 'graduate' as a Black Widow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Olinser View Post
    It doesn't necessarily crank out very many. I assume that they weed out a large number of candidates that just aren't the best of the best. We were explicitly shown one Widow trainee killing another during training.

    Out of that large room with what - about 30 girls in it? Dottie may have been the ONLY one to survive and 'graduate' as a Black Widow.
    One of the writers for Agent Carter tweeted a picture.

    Red Room Class of '37. Number of graduates: 1
    https://twitter.com/JoseMolinaTV/sta...38421640921088
    Last edited by Joran; 2015-02-06 at 05:27 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joran View Post
    One of the writers for Agent Carter tweeted a picture.

    Red Room Class of '37. Number of graduates: 1
    https://twitter.com/JoseMolinaTV/sta...38421640921088
    Haha, I totally called it then

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    It's possible the program continued, or that Natasha's mother had been part of it and trained her the same way or something.
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    They specified the class year, you only do that if you have or expect to have more than one class, and said classes are separated by years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl View Post
    They specified the class year, you only do that if you have or expect to have more than one class, and said classes are separated by years.
    At the very least, I'd expect that a new class would be started when the old one graduates.

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    Originally Posted by SaintRidley
    It's possible the program continued, or that Natasha's mother had been part of it and trained her the same way or something.
    Do we know for certain that Romanoff came out of the same program?

    (I only know what I've seen in the movies, so no idea if there's some backstory involving Romanoff and the Red Room.)

    Originally Posted by BRC
    The issue is that Black Widow explicitly says she used to work for the KGB, which was dissolved in 1991.

    I suppose its possible that she could have been doing some spy work at 6 years old.
    Also, on this point, she says as much to Bruce Banner in the first Avengers movie, when she makes contact in India.

    .
    Last edited by Palanan; 2015-02-08 at 05:49 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BRC View Post
    The issue is that Black Widow explicitly says she used to work for the KGB, which was dissolved in 1991.

    I suppose its possible that she could have been doing some spy work at 6 years old.
    Also, maybe the KGB didn't dissolve in 1991 in the MCU. That may be one of many areas in which the history of the MCU differs from our own universe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    At the very least, I'd expect that a new class would be started when the old one graduates.

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    I don't think there's ever meant to be more than one active black widow.. so it may well be that they start classes again when the current one is at her peak
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    Quote Originally Posted by dehro View Post
    I don't think there's ever meant to be more than one active black widow.. so it may well be that they start classes again when the current one is at her peak
    If peak ability is known (say, 20), you can compensate for the time it takes to train (at least a few years, I'd imagine). But the problem with gaps is that teacher talent is lost. By starting immediately, you can have your teachers permanently employed on it. Otherwise, you risk them being reassigned elsewhere and a big fight getting them back.

    At this point, however, I'm thinking way too hard about the practical problems of running a battle royale school for Russian assassins, so I think I'll leave it there.

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    At this point, however, I'm thinking way too hard about the practical problems of running a battle royale school for Russian assassins, so I think I'll leave it there.
    So wish there was a way to like posts right now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    At this point, however, I'm thinking way too hard about the practical problems of running a battle royale school for Russian assassins, so I think I'll leave it there.
    I really want to sig this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    At this point, however, I'm thinking way too hard about the practical problems of running a battle royale school for Russian assassins, so I think I'll leave it there.
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  26. - Top - End - #296
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    I liked this ep far more then the previous one. It was nice to see the Howling Commando's again. Pity they couldn't keep them around with like, 2 eps left.
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    Carter and the Commandos gallivanting around the world would've been a much better premise, that's for sure. Chasing 084s and the like would've been more fun, and a closer parallel to the Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. storyline.

    Only two episodes left? There's three more Tuesdays available before March, so I was assuming there were three more episodes.

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    I thought the series was only approved for 8 eps total.

    And perhaps there saving that for next season and the Marvel One Shot Agent Carter will happen in-between?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Landis963 View Post
    I really want to sig this.
    Feel free, by all means!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Feel free, by all means!

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    Thanks, although it's really odd how quickly one uses up 500 characters worth of signature space.
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    At this point, however, I'm thinking way too hard about the practical problems of running a battle royale school for Russian assassins, so I think I'll leave it there.
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