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    Default Morph Bark's NEW AND IMPROVED Homebrew Tier Compendium [3.5+PF]

    Old Homebrew Tier Compendium


    What’s this?

    Welcome all, welcome again! This is the new and improved version of the Homebrew Tier Compendium! If you're looking for the old version, the link is up above, standing separate so it stands out and it is the thing at the top of this intro post. This new thread was made due to an overwhelming amount of the old Tiered classes still using the old forum code on GitP, thus making them practically unusable for ease of reference. Only classes using the latest form of code for any source (GitP, Minmax, EN, WotC forums, Dungeon-wiki, Dandwiki, etc) will be Tiered.

    This, my friends, is my Homebrew Tier Compendium. In here, I examine Homebrew base classes and put them into a Tier listing and add tags for their roles, genre, inspiration source and subsystem use, so that when I set up a campaign and I want to use Homebrew I can just point here and say: “Everything marked with [Tag Name] of Tier X is allowed.”

    If you're not familiar with the Tier system, read this.

    An un-Tiered collection of Prestige Classes tied to various of the classes below can be found here.


    Index:
    Intro post and Tags
    Homebrew Tier list
    Subsystems (official-based)
    Subsystems (homebrew-based)
    Statistics, Features and Credits


    How do I get Tiered?
    1. Have a finished class.
      • That isn't a fix of an official class.
      • With a class info table (here's a guide).
    2. Post in this thread with a link.
    3. I will review the class in my own time. (You may need to wait a while, as I have little free time.)
    4. It gets a review and possibly gets Tiered.
      • If it is fits well within a Tier (i.e., it doesn't bounce between Tier 4 or lower and Tier 2; basically, is the class balanced within itself?).
      • If it is of good quality.



    Tags (currently)
    I use a system of tags for the base classes listed below, so that even before clicking on the link you have a vague idea in what sort of campaigns you can most likely expect to use them and what party niche you are most likely to fill with that class. The tags are put into four different categories: Genre, Inspiration, Subsystem and Role. Besides these there are also a few Other tags.
    Spoiler
    Show
    Major
    These are seperate from the rest, because I believe they are more important than all the others.
    Pathfinder: This Tag should be obvious what it means. In case it isn't: it means the class was made for Pathfinder, rather than for D&D 3.5, so there are a few small differences, which are easily changed if you want to convert it.


    Genre
    The standard genre of D&D campaigns is Fantasy. Specifically, High Fantasy in a setting that resembles Europe around the year 1500, at the end of the Middle Ages and the beginning of the Renaissance. Most Homebrew fits this genre as well or easily can with some tweaks (to either the fluff of the class or to the campaign setting). Some classes are made to better fit a different era or location, however. Not every class has a Genre tag.
    Horror: While Horror does not exclude Fantasy, Horror campaigns are a brand apart. They have a very different feel to them than “normal” campaigns do, which classes with this tag fit very well. Note that a lot of classes can be made to fit a Horror campaign and that these classes simply fit Horror campaigns amazingly well, often being specifically made for them.
    Modern: If a class is based around gunmanship or was inspired by something set in the modern era (meaning post-1800), it will most likely receive this tag.
    Oriental: The Oriental tag denotes that a class has fluff written with a Far East or (more rarely) Middle East setting in mind, be it Edo Japan, Han China or even the Mughal Empire of India, Sassanid Persian Empire or early Ottoman Empire. Note that a lot of classes that may be hit by the “Japan” tag (see below) might not have the Oriental tag (and vice versa). These classes may have the “Modern” tag (see above) instead.
    Sci-Fi: A class tagged with Sci-Fi (short for Science Fiction, if you didn’t know) is likely a high-tech class and therefore out of place in a standard D&D setting. Some classes inspired by a sci-fi work might not be tagged with this tag due to not being particularly/exclusively Sci-Fi themselves (the Jedi from Star Wars being a good example).
    Silly: These classes are a joke. Just kidding! Classes with this tag are most likely best-suited for a light-hearted campaign or in a world where laughter was king. Note that with some refluffing these classes could still work for serious campaigns and you can still easily make a serious campaign with a party full of Silly classes (I bet some Batman villains had levels in Silly classes). Appropriately refluffed, these classes might even be among the greatest potential Horror classes.
    Steampunk: Steampunk as a genre has really grown in the past decade and the Eberron setting has drawn from it as well (though less ‘steam’ and more ‘magicpunk’). Steampunk is best described as a world based off Victorian England (1800s era) with higher levels of technology that is steam-based, up to and including steam-powered mecha even.


    Inspiration
    The Inspiration group of tags describes sources from which the class drew inspiration from and may be entirely based off. Not every class has an Inspiration tag.
    Book: If a class is based off something from a novel or a book series, it will have this tag. A Harry Potter style wizard would be a prime example.
    Comic: The class was based off something or someone from a comic book. This is often the case with superhero-themed classes. Though manga are comic books, they instead fall under the “Japan” tag (see below).
    Historical: The class was inspired by something from real-world history. Seems like these would be great for low-magic campaigns, I imagine.
    Japan: Everything based off Japanese television, anime or manga falls under this. Note that a lot of classes that may be hit by the “Oriental” tag (see above) might not have the Japan tag (and vice versa).
    Television: If the class is based off a movie or a television series and doesn’t fall under the Japan tag, it gets this tag.
    Video Game: The class was clearly based off or inspired by a video game and may or may not explicitly call out to that by name alone.


    Subsystem
    Some classes make use of their own special mechanic. Some classes are just bland. Some classes make use of a specific magic subsystem of D&D that some other classes might also use. These are some of them. Remember that to use a class that uses a subsystem you will have to learn the subsystem as well, which brings a steeper learning curve with it.
    Arcane: The class is an arcane caster, like the wizard, sorcerer or warlock. They may be prepared or spontaneous and sometimes know their full spell list. They need not be vancian casters, as with invokers.
    Binding: The class binds vestiges to themselves, like the Binder from Tome of Magic.
    Divine: The class is a divine caster, like the cleric or shugenja. They may be prepared, in which case they might or might not know their full spell list, or spontaneous. They need not be vancian casters, as with invokers, though divine invokers are more rare than arcane ones.
    Incarnum: The class uses incarnum, thus having the power of Soul on their side. See Magic of Incarnum for more details on the subsystem.
    Infusions: A rarity, even in Homebrew, infusions are the purview of the Artificer from the Eberron Campaign Setting. This class is stealing his job! Which might be a good or a bad thing, depending on how it’s handled, seeing as the Artificer is Tier 1.
    Invoker: At-will spell-like abilities are your thing! Invokers don’t really need sleep, which gives this class bonus points as well. The only official invokers are the Warlock from Complete Arcane and the Dragonfire Adept from Dragon Magic.
    Martial Adept: The class is a martial adept and learns maneuvers from martial disciplines, like the classes from Tome of Battle. You’re in luck, as there’s plenty of Homebrew support for this kind of character.
    Psionic: The class is a psionic manifester, like the classes in the Expanded Psionics Handbook. Lucky for you, they’re also in the SRD, making a psionic class easy to fit into a campaign even if the DM has no access to books at all.
    Shadow: The class uses Shadow Magic, like the Shadowcaster from Tome of Magic. If you’re playing in the Forgotten Realms, be sure to stay on Shar’s good side.
    Truenames: The class uses truenaming, like the Truenamer from Tome of Magic. It probably uses a Homebrew fix.
    Unique: The class uses a unique Homebrew system that either the class’ creator or someone else made. These are often Big Reads, but the ones that aren't are often incredible.
    Vancian: The class uses Vancian casting, the same sort of spellcasting system the cleric, druid and wizard each also use and which is the standard spellcasting system for D&D.


    Role
    Party roles are important in a party, that’s just how they roll. Like dice. You like dice, don’t you? Long story short, parties function better if there isn’t too much overlap in roles and they complement one another, whether by the same, similar or totally different roles that support one another. When you’re late to the party, don’t fret! It may seem like you’re “stuck” with a role, but you could easily help them in some other way or find a way to make that role still fun for you. When life gives you lemons, you can either make lemonade or engineer a combustible lemon to burn life’s house down with. Your choice.
    Buffer: You grant your allies bonuses or minor abilities, making you a great support class. Awesome! More people should be like you, because friendship is magic.
    Controller: Controlling the battlefield is key, whether it is by restricting movement or debuffing enemies.
    Crafter: While some campaigns don’t give you enough downtime to do any crafting, the Dedicated Wright could help you very much in that regard. If you can’t afford to buy or make one and won’t have a lot of downtime, either ask your DM for some downtime or don’t focus on crafting. If before the campaign started it was clear you might be on an in-game schedule, don’t focus on crafting. Otherwise, crafting can be extremely rewarding for both you and your party, saving you tons of gold pieces, whether you craft mundane or magic gear.
    Face: A party Face is someone who is good at dealing with social situations. While this might sometimes be partially dependant on the player’s own roleplaying abilities, this class is just geared up for it. They’re often Charisma-focused, have Bluff, Diplomacy/Intimidate and Sense Motive as class skills and have class features or spells that make making people friendly easier. This role is almost never taken as a character’s only role, except in low-op games.
    Healer: Often it is said that a party doesn’t need a dedicated healer in 3.5 campaigns. Either way, a Healer can still be pretty darn handy. Plus, this guy may very well be capable of other stuff, especially if he still managed to be Tier 3 or above.
    Minionmancer: This describes both summoners and others that utilize followers or creatures a lot and have some emphasis on their ability to command them and make them stronger. (They can usually buff their minions, but won't receive the Buffer tag if they cannot buff anything other than their minions.)
    Sage: The Sage Tag denotes a class that can most likely trick out the Knowledge skills. Sage classes tend to have all Knowledge skills as class skills or otherwise at least a sizeable amount. They often get class features that rely on Knowledge checks or make them better, though this is not necessary. Sage classes often also have Decipher Script as a class skill and they are never illiterate. Ever.
    Scout: Most likely is a class with plenty of skill points, the Listen and Spot skills, often the Hide and Move Silently skills, plus also often abilities that make them better at detecting something. Movement options are typically very important for a good scout. Scouts are often good options for wilderness survival games or for tracking as well, as half the time they have Survival on their class skill list.
    Tank: A rarity in D&D, a tank is a character who goads enemies into attacking him rather than his allies or otherwise prevents his allies from behind harmed. These classes can almost always be found in melee or six feet under.
    Trapmonkey: "It's a trap!" is likely a line you might often find yourself saying with this class. A trapmonkey is a class that usually has trapfinding or otherwise deals with traps, disarming them or setting them for others. In most campaigns, a dedicated trapmonkey is unnecessary, but they can be handy in dungeons.
    Last edited by Morph Bark; 2015-04-27 at 01:28 PM.
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    Default Re: Morph Bark's NEW AND IMPROVED Homebrew Tier Compendium [3.5]

    Tier 1
    Metagamer [Silly, Arcane, Divine, Vancian, Sage]


    Tier 2
    Blasphemous Preacher [Arcane, Binding, Divine, Face, Sage]
    Blue Mage [Video Game]
    Channeler [Divine, Invoker, Face, Healer]
    Dementist [Buffer, Face]
    Deviant [Divine, Vancian, Sage, Scout]
    Ebon Initiate [Arcane, Invoker, Crafter, Face]
    Eventide Magus [Arcane, Shadow, Vancian]
    Exarch of the Emerald Shield [Comic, Unique, Controller, Crafter, Healer]
    Hakurei Shrine Maiden [Oriental, Video Game, Arcane, Vancian, Face]
    Incarnation [Divine, Face]
    Jinnblood [Divine, Invoker, Face]
    Kathodos [Unique, Sage]
    Limit Mage [Video Game, Arcane, Unique, Vancian]
    Limit Psion [Video Game, Psionic, Unique, Sage]
    Monstrous Armiger [Unique, Scout, Tank]
    Sanguine Knight [Tank]
    Summoner [Arcane, Vancian, Buffer, Minionmancer]
    Teramach [Striker]
    War-Marked [Unique, Striker]
    Witch [Arcane, Vancian, Controller, Healer]
    Worldrender [Unique, Controller, Face, Healer]


    High Tier 3
    These classes generally have much higher levels of power than average Tier 3 classes and may have a gamebreaker or two, but nothing that would bump them up to Tier 2. Effectively, this is a kind of "Borderline Tier 2-3", but for purposes of player class choice I consider this Tier 3, personally.
    Avatar [Divine, Vancian, Face, Healer]
    Blade Scholar [Martial Adept, Sage]
    Botanist [Unique, Healer, Scout]
    Chronoshifter [Original, Unique, Buffer, Controller, Healer]
    Courtier [Arcane, Vancian, Buffer, Face, Sage]
    Dark Knight [Video Game, Unique, Buffer, Controller, Healer, Tank]
    Delirium Blade [Unique, Controller]
    Emberhaunt [Arcane, Vancian, Sage]
    Eternal Royal [Video Game, Martial Adept, Face]
    Evolutionist [Unique, Controller, Face, Healer, Sage, Striker, Scout, Tank]
    Geneticist [Unique, Healer, Sage]
    Grandmaster [Arcane, Vancian, Buffer, Healer]
    Harrowed [Horror, Unique, Controller, Face]
    Legend [Tank, Fix]
    Machinist [Steampunk, Martial Adept, Crafter, Sage]
    Nord's Blade [Martial Adept, Face]
    Ozodrin [Horror, Scout, Tank]
    Planeswalker [Arcane, Vancian, Face, Healer, Sage, Scout]
    Rappeler [Arcane, Vancian, Buffer, Sage]
    Scholar [Video Game, Martial Adept, Sage]
    Shapeshifter [Arcane, Vancian, Scout]
    Temporalist [Face, Scout]
    Void Disciple [Arcane, Vancian, Sage]
    Xenoalchemist [Horror, Unique, Healer, Sage]


    Tier 3
    Bemäntelter Schatten [Binding, Psionic, Shadow, Face]
    Chozo Warrior [Sci-Fi, Video Game, Scout]
    Conceptualist [Unique]
    Connoisseur [Horror, Unique, Scout, Striker, Tank]
    Convoker [Arcane, Vancian]
    Corrupted [Martial Adept]
    Dawnblade [Divine, Vancian, Healer]
    Debaser [Arcane, Vancian, Controller, Face]
    Earth Dreamer [Arcane, Vancian]
    Gerudo Marauder [Video Game, Martial Adept, Face, Striker]
    Hylian Warrior [Video Game, Martial Adept, Striker, Tank]
    Improviser [Healer, Scout, Trapmonkey]
    Kyodai [Japan]
    Lord of the Uttercold [Japan, Arcane, Vancian, Face]
    Magus of Blades [Arcane, Martial Adept, Vancian, Buffer]
    Mamono [Unique, Scout]
    Masque [Horror, Divine, Vancian]
    Overdrive Knight [Video Game, Face, Striker]
    Primal [Arcane, Invoker, Scout]
    Sentai [Modern, Japan, Martial Adept, Buffer, Face, Scout, Tank]
    Storm Lord [Arcane, Vancian, Scout]
    Wavekeeper [Arcane, Vancian, Scout]


    Borderline Tier 3-4
    High Tier 4 or Low Tier 3, either way they mean the same: classes that are just a little behind in either versatility or power to really make the Tier 3 cut, but standing above most Tier 4s, they could fall in either Tier depending on the level of optimization used.
    Cardcaller [Video Game, Unique, Scout]
    Cultist [Divine, Shadow, Face]
    Disciple of Anima [Unique, Buffer, Controller, Healer]
    Elemental Adept [Invoker, Striker
    Gaoler of Frostflame [Unique, Controller, Striker]
    Iron Man [Pathfinder, Steampunk]
    Limit Freak [Horror, Video Game, Unique]
    Machiavellian [Original, Any Genre, Buffer, Controller, Face]
    Magitech Templar [Steampunk]
    Servant Soul [Japan, Arcane, Vancian, Healer, Sage, Scout, Striker]
    Soulblade [Incarnum, Striker]
    Sniper [Scout]


    Tier 4
    Note that Tier 4 is not bad. Tier 4 is is, after all, "capable of doing one thing quite well, but often useless when encounters require other areas of expertise, or capable of doing many things to a reasonable degree of competance without truly shining." Many great classes are Tier 4.
    Barrier Mage [Arcane, Vancian]
    Battle Shinigami [Oriental, Japan, Divine, Vancian, Scout]
    Biskmatar [Video Game, Tank]
    Ephemeral Watcher [Shadow, Scout]
    Esper Knight [Television, Incarnum]
    Gentle Fist Adept [Oriental, Japan, Scout]
    Jester [Arcane, Vancian, Face, Tank]
    Kido Shinigami [Oriental, Japan, Divine, Vancian, Scout]
    Limit Knight [Video Game, Unique, Crafter, Tank]
    Limit Monk [Video Game, Unique]
    Limit Ninja [Video Game, Unique, Scout]
    Limit Sniper [Video Game, Unique, Crafter]
    Mind-Filcher [Scout]
    Muse [Face]
    Psychotherapist [Unique, Face, Sage]
    Punchmaster [Striker]
    Runner [Scout]
    Sentinel [Tank]
    Solar Avatar [Comic, Scout]
    Thief-Acrobat [Scout]
    Werewolf [Scout, Tank]


    Tier 5
    If your class is here, consider reworking it. Unless Tier 5 was your aim.
    Barkeeper [Crafter, Face]
    Grappler [Controller]
    Handyman [Face, Healer, Sage, Scout, Trapmonkey]
    Hollow [Shadow, Scout]
    Liberal Arts Major [Silly]
    Midnight Seer [Shadow, Sage]


    Tier 6
    Pity the common man, for he is powerless.
    n/a
    Last edited by Morph Bark; 2015-04-28 at 03:05 PM.
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    Default Re: Morph Bark's NEW AND IMPROVED Homebrew Tier Compendium [3.5]

    Official Subsystems
    Sometimes a homebrewer creates a great addition to an existing subsystem, sometimes one creates an entirely new subsystem and sometimes there just are those classes that gain a following and a boatload of PrCs and other connected material. That is what this post is all about.


    Binding
    There haven't been any Binding base classes other than the Dabblemaster (and now the Blasphemous Preacher) as far as I've found, but there have been a lot of additional materials created for the Binder's use, especially vestiges. A compilation of that material can be found here.


    Invokers
    Some people have created a lot of new invocations or other material to go with classes similar to the Warlock and Dragonfire Adept, such as ErrantX's Ebon Initiate and Channeler. Some examples of sets of invocations include the following: Animal, Celestial, Elemental, Necromantic, various. There are also ACFs.
    Last edited by Morph Bark; 2015-04-26 at 01:31 PM.
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    Default Re: Morph Bark's NEW AND IMPROVED Homebrew Tier Compendium [3.5]

    Homebrew Subsystems
    Sometimes a homebrewer creates a great addition to an existing subsystem, sometimes one creates an entirely new subsystem and sometimes there just are those classes that gain a following and a boatload of PrCs and other connected material. That is what this post is all about.


    Gramarie
    Gramarie is a homebrew subsytem created by Kellus. A lot of extra material has been created, a collection of which can be found here.


    Limit Warriors
    The Limit Warriors (also including the Limit Dragoon) are a group of eight classes that all use a unique subsystem that allows them to fill up their 'Limit Gauge' as they take damage and use the points in this Limit Gauge to fuel special abilities. The Limit Knight and Limit Sniper can be made more useable by tweaking their weapons to be easier and cheaper to fix and upgrade and allowing the Limit Sniper to shoot more often. Otherwise, the classes are fully useable, as long as you keep up their Constitution score for their hit points. The Limit Break mechanic was given a new spin by Ziegander here.
    Last edited by Morph Bark; 2015-04-26 at 01:31 PM.
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    Default Re: Morph Bark's NEW AND IMPROVED Homebrew Tier Compendium [3.5]

    Statistics
    n/a


    Special Features
    Venture into the Belly of the Beast: Tiering Dandwiki. [link 1; link 2]
    Courtcase Oskar vs Bark: The Tiering of the Retooler. [link 1; link 2; link 3]
    The Melancholy of Tsundere Spirits: The Tiering of Gareth. [link 1; link 2]
    X Marks The Magic: The Tiering of Waylander. [link]
    Fighter Fridays: The Tiering of Fighter Fixes. [link 1; link 2; --break--]
    Mysterious Mondays: The Descent of Tiering Shadows [link 1]


    Credits and Thanks
    Savannah for the "You've Been Tiered!" graphic.
    Sirpercival's Homebrew Martial Discipline Compendium and its contributors.
    Many Playgrounders for help with compiling the Vestiges and Binder material, including Zaydos and Avalon®, but especially Vauron.
    Temotei for helping keep track of SO many things and being the bro-est of Homebros.
    Last edited by Morph Bark; 2015-04-26 at 01:45 PM.
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    Default Re: Morph Bark's NEW AND IMPROVED Homebrew Tier Compendium [3.5]

    Reservations, Master Wayne?
    Last edited by Morph Bark; 2015-04-26 at 01:44 PM.
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    Default Re: Morph Bark's NEW AND IMPROVED Homebrew Tier Compendium [3.5]

    At your own request - may Gods nameless have mercy on your soul - here's the entire Tome of Radiance to Tier.

    It's not mine, I have to make that very clear, but I put a lot of work into parts of it. And I'd love to see it getting looked at by an impartial outsider.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuintonBeck View Post
    Many thanks to Snowfire for collating all these. He's a madman, but he's a helpful madman.
    Spoiler: Things
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Mynxae View Post
    Damn you Snowfire. I cried.
    Quote Originally Posted by Falcon777 View Post
    T_T I swear, you just made me cry.
    Quote Originally Posted by Qwertystop View Post
    Well, here's another for your sig, Snowfire.

    <struck dumb>

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    Default Re: Morph Bark's NEW AND IMPROVED Homebrew Tier Compendium [3.5]

    Huzzah, it's back!

    *Waves hand at sig* I have lots of stuff there and most of it is base classes, and most of it should be tierable. Have fun.

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    Default Re: Morph Bark's NEW AND IMPROVED Homebrew Tier Compendium [3.5+PF]

    You should try another crack at the Mythos classes! Xefas has made 2 more of them (plus, all 4 are complete), and some of the other homebrew-of-a-homebrew classes are pretty cool, too!

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    Default Re: Morph Bark's NEW AND IMPROVED Homebrew Tier Compendium [3.5+PF]

    I have precisely one finished class, The Dancer, and since I just updated it with some new toys I'd like to get it tiered.
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    Default Re: Morph Bark's NEW AND IMPROVED Homebrew Tier Compendium [3.5+PF]

    Good to see you back! Looking at the tags for things that might be worth trimming, I think the Inspiration tags might be worth scrutinizing. Mostly because many ideas are so ubiquitous as to show up in many mediums, to the point it'd be hard to tell if there's a specific inspiration unless the maker says it outright. Nothing is new under the sun, and all that. Besides that, something being inspired by a given source doesn't necessarily mean a strong connection or even a direct relationship with it (see: anything ever presented with the tagline 'based on a true story'). They also don't tell you much about the class in specific.

    Outside of that, the 'Magic' Role tag is fairly broad in definition, in particular because it tells me little that a subsystem tag wouldn't detail with more precision. Melee and Ranged are a bit iffy to me as being 'roles', but with the existence of effects that only work with one type of effect or another and many classes both official and otherwise whose abilities are pretty much limited to one type (Duskblade and Tome of Battle for Melee, Arcane Archer for Ranged, and my if that isn't a summary for how official material supports the two options comparatively) I can understand their existence.


    EDIT: If you're accepting requests for after your work load lightens, I have two on my plate that I'd like to have examined due to my concern with balance and execution. One is a class I've been working on since the end of 2013 and originally had posted on these forms, the Doll Maker. I'm hoping to remake it from the ground up, possibly to use a point-buy-like system for creating the Dolls to better balance weaker and stronger options against each other, but I really need to know where it stands in terms of power now to know whether to aim up or down.

    The other is my recent Monk remake, because I fell in love with the concept I had for it enough to do a Monk remake despite how overdone that is, but I have no idea if I've gotten the balance remotely right and what areas need buffing or nerfing, or even if I should restart from scratch.
    Last edited by UserShadow7989; 2015-01-11 at 09:07 AM.
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    Default Re: Morph Bark's NEW AND IMPROVED Homebrew Tier Compendium [3.5+PF]

    Eeeyyy, this brings back memories.

    If you need any help or something, give me a PM/poke on Skype.

    And because I can't stay behind, I put forward the classes of the Grand Cross of Four (plus Chaos Assasin and Improviser). All of them use the new table code.

    Grand Cross Of Four
    Gaoler of Frostflame
    The Spellguide
    The Delirionist
    The Disciple of Anima

    Extra:
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    Which reminds me, I really need to finish my Soothing Strike martial discipline when I get the time xD.
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    DrowGuy

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    Default Re: Morph Bark's NEW AND IMPROVED Homebrew Tier Compendium [3.5+PF]

    I would like to have the classes in my sig tiered.

    Particularly the Magical Girl, although the Knight of Dullahan might be easier to get through.

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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: Morph Bark's NEW AND IMPROVED Homebrew Tier Compendium [3.5+PF]

    Recommending Giants and Graveyards: Grod's collected 3.5 revisions .

    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...-3-5-revisions

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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Morph Bark's NEW AND IMPROVED Homebrew Tier Compendium [3.5+PF]

    I'd love for my Aasimar Paragon to be tiered. I just updated it today and spent a long time working on it.

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    Default Re: Morph Bark's NEW AND IMPROVED Homebrew Tier Compendium [3.5+PF]

    Could you be so kind as to tier the Wishmaster and Soulgun Classes in my signature?

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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Morph Bark's NEW AND IMPROVED Homebrew Tier Compendium [3.5+PF]

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael7123 View Post
    I'd love for my Aasimar Paragon to be tiered. I just updated it today and spent a long time working on it.
    Actually, hold off on this. I might be making a major edit soon.

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    Default Re: Morph Bark's NEW AND IMPROVED Homebrew Tier Compendium [3.5+PF]

    If the Sleepwalker PrC in my sig could be tiered, that would be great, but I'm not sure if that's in the scope of the thread.

    The Inspiration tags could probably be cut, and the Magic tag doesn't say very much about what's actually done, but everything else seems, at least, potentially useful.
    Last edited by Qwertystop; 2015-01-14 at 11:54 PM.
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    ...though Talla does her best to sound objective and impartial, it doesn't cover stuff like "ask a 9-year-old to tank for the party."
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    PirateCaptain

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    Default Re: Morph Bark's NEW AND IMPROVED Homebrew Tier Compendium [3.5+PF]

    Haven't touched the homebrew section lately, but the Monsterbound in my sig below could use some tiering or even critiquing... if you don't mind!
    Quote Originally Posted by MERC_1 View Post
    I find it very amusing that a very theoretical discussion of how to Optimize Bardic Music, turns into a discussion on how much worms you can eat in 7 minutes.

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    Default Re: Morph Bark's NEW AND IMPROVED Homebrew Tier Compendium [3.5+PF]

    Well you always know I have homebrew to tier, but you wanted to talk about tags...

    Is Steampunk or Magicpunk actually more common for homebrew? I might just make a Punk tag. I don't look at many Sci-Fi or Modern classes, but I imagine the tags are useful when those show up.

    On the others... Are Inspiration tags only for something that is heavily mechanically influenced by its inspiration or... Well for example (please excuse me for using my own classes here but they're easily available) Awakened Champion is heavily inspired fluff-wise by Michael Moorcock's Champion Eternal would it be deserving of the Book tag even though it's not influenced by a specific one of his books (ok, the Black Blade is the book I read and then immediately made the class) and the mechanics are actually quite different? What about Incarnation which was inspired by Van Vogt's The Book of Ptath but ultimately doesn't draw much fluff or mechanics from it (maybe Divine Rejuvenation I forget) but instead from a variety of sources? Or Tall Tale which is rather blatantly based off of Jack Tales and Baron Munchhausen and the like? In brief, inspiration is a vague thing, if it's fluff and mechanics is highly tied to the source material and it's something non-general (like a Soul Reaper from Bleach) I can see why it's really useful, but it seems like many of them don't get used.

    Subsystems... I'd ask why Arcane and Divine and Vancian are all tags, but then I remember divine invokers which homebrewers love to make (I am guilty of this myself) and I can see the reason. I wouldn't really change anything here.

    Role... I would remove Buffer-self, while buffing party members is an end of itself, you only buff yourself to perform a role. I would add Battlefield Control although that might fall under Debuffer (not 100% sure, is Solid Fog or Black Tentacles a debuff?), and Summoner since a summoner typically plays and functions in a party distinctly from melee even assuming roughly equal capability (where as a self-buffer that just buffs for combat tends to function like a better fighter). Not sure if Moneymaker is actually necessary as a tag, unless it's making so much money it's changing the game in which case it might just be better to put the gamechanger tag on it. I might also remove the magic tag since it is usually shown by a subsystem tag unless unique and most unique subsystems will still be magic so it is usually redundant, but it is convenient when that is the thing in particular you are looking for.

    For the most part, though, I'd say the tags look good and none seem completely redundant. Trap-Monkey and Scout (as an example) tend to go hand and hand but there are scouts who aren't trap-monkeys (rangers before ACFs, and probably more in homebrew) and trap-monkeys who aren't scouts (artificers), same for Sage for example, and there are crafters who aren't magic users.

    Also if you do tier my stuff don't bother with Form Shifter or Protean Adept, the former needs to be reworked and tinkered with and the latter I am tempted to wholly disown but might try and fix if I can ever get Form Shifter working (as they use the same basic system just differently).
    Last edited by Zaydos; 2015-01-15 at 02:18 AM.
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    Default Re: Morph Bark's NEW AND IMPROVED Homebrew Tier Compendium [3.5+PF]

    Punk tags are complicted. So much that's labelled as that isn't even remotely punk. Just... vaguely involving some kind of weird technology? Actually, something like a [tech] or [magitek] tag might be more appropriate, as that's a flavour many DMs will not want in their world.
    "In dark times, should the stars also go out?"

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    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Morph Bark's NEW AND IMPROVED Homebrew Tier Compendium [3.5+PF]

    Alternatively, you may just label it as [period-tech] or some similar notation, so as to also include homebrew classes with mechanics inspired by specific "punk" techs (clockpunk, sandalpunk, etc.)
    Last edited by ben-zayb; 2015-01-15 at 05:17 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by MERC_1 View Post
    I find it very amusing that a very theoretical discussion of how to Optimize Bardic Music, turns into a discussion on how much worms you can eat in 7 minutes.

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    Default Re: Morph Bark's NEW AND IMPROVED Homebrew Tier Compendium [3.5+PF]

    I'm very surprised and excited to see that something like this exists! Thank you for putting in all that work.

    If you wouldn't mind giving me a little feedback on where the Angelic Avenger stands, I'd really appreciate it. It's a paladin-like class with invocation-like casting and psion-like augmentation capacity.

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    Default Re: Morph Bark's NEW AND IMPROVED Homebrew Tier Compendium [3.5+PF]

    Very glad to see this has become a thing.

    For what it's worth, both my Elemental Adept (which you previously tiered at borderline 3-4) and my Nightblade classes have been updated to the new table coding.

    I'm also planning on updating the tables for my paladin fix "soon", but I'll post again when I finally get that done.
    If brute force isn't working, that just means you're not using enough of it.

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    Default Re: Morph Bark's NEW AND IMPROVED Homebrew Tier Compendium [3.5+PF]

    Hi Morph

    I'd greatly appreciate tiering my classes (whatever you find the time and inclination to handle).

    Notice that the overhaul codex rejects PrC altogether, so those have no relevance if one is to tire my classes.

  26. - Top - End - #26

    Default Re: Morph Bark's NEW AND IMPROVED Homebrew Tier Compendium [3.5+PF]

    So, by classes with the correct code, is that primarily talking about the table, and making sure it actually works?

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    Default Re: Morph Bark's NEW AND IMPROVED Homebrew Tier Compendium [3.5+PF]

    Just posted my entries for Base Class Contest XXIV and XXV in their own threads at last. I'm interested in what tags they'd have especially Dragonsoul Acolyte.

    Giving it a go myself I'd guess for Dragonsoul Acolyte it'd have:

    Subsystem:
    Arcane, Binding, Divine, Incarnum, Infusions, Invoker (actually can't recall if it can actually do this one), Martial Adept, Psionic, Shadow, Truenames, and potentially unique/or -unique after some of those. I don't think it'd get Vancian since it's no more vancian than a Psion, however.

    Role:
    I'm not sure, I tried to make it possible to build one into any role but honestly I'd say it leans towards Melee, Ranged, and definitely has the Magic tag. Depending upon Tutelary Dragon though you can be a healer, buffer, debuffer, scout, or more. I will say this makes me notice a tag that is oddly missing "Jack of All Trades" for those classes that dabble in all things and/or can specialize in most any role to some extent. Might manage Face regardless of Tutelary Dragon (Charisma focus + social skills)

    Special:
    Big Read. Even if you ignore the 2nd party and homebrew dragons you've got 3 posts of tutelary dragon options and then have (limited use) spontaneous access to 5th level or lower sor/wiz spells from the entire list (at 20th).

    Ruin Delver is relatively simpler

    Inspiration:
    As I make no secret that the source of the idea was Indiana Jones it might get Television, but I'm not sure it's close enough to the source for the tag to be useful to people interested in it.

    Subsystem:
    Arcane, Divine, Vancian.

    Role:
    It might get Buffer (it buffs people's skills and gets 5th level arcane + divine spells), it might get Face (Cha or Int focus + social skills), they get 5th level arcane spells (6th for transmutation) but I doubt that makes it a debuffer, 7th level healing spells means it can play the Healer role possibly, definitely Magic, it's not particularly melee or ranged focus with less direct combat abilities than a rogue (but casting), almost certainly qualifies for Sage with option for Int focus, 6+skills, +Level to Appraise/Decipher Script, all Knowledge skills, ability to get 6th/7th level arcane/divine divination and Lore, qualifies for Scout less direct movement options but does get the ability to allow allies to use their ranks in Hide/Move Silently which ought to count for something, and is a definite Trapmonkey.

    This was fun for me.
    Peanut Half-Dragon Necromancer by Kurien.

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    Default Re: Morph Bark's NEW AND IMPROVED Homebrew Tier Compendium [3.5+PF]

    Anyone know when this is actually going to be updated? Is been a fortnight now, and we haven't seen a sign of any activity here at all from the OP... not exactly a good sign that its gonna be updated, unless he does a big mega update once a month or something.

    Gentleman Adventurer
    Last edited by Tempestfury; 2015-04-26 at 02:06 PM.

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    Default Re: Morph Bark's NEW AND IMPROVED Homebrew Tier Compendium [3.5+PF]

    This now gives me some incentive to actually update my old classes to the new tables.
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    Default Re: Morph Bark's NEW AND IMPROVED Homebrew Tier Compendium [3.5+PF]

    Haha, jokes on you, the sanguine knight is already updated! Almost got me there Morph. Almost got me.

    ... Wait a second, this is a new thread, not a warning in the old one that un-updated classes might be removed. Well. Hullo there new thread, fancy meeting you here.

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