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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Gnomes2169's Avatar

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    Default Some edits for the ranger

    ... Because I do honestly think it could use a few fixes, but I don't know if it's going overboard. So comments/ critiques are more than welcome here.

    General:
    -The level 20 ability is terrible, and is moved to level 13 instead. As such, they need a new level 20 ability. See below.
    -You may change your known spells each day. You also gain two additional spells known (or memorized now, as the case may be) at levels 9 and 17 (bringing you to a total of 15 spells).
    -Primeval awareness gives you darkvision to 60' if you don't have it, or increase it by 60' if you do on top of the whole "Awareness of non-normal critters" thing it does.
    -Hide in Plane sight has this added to the end of it: "If you attack while using hide in plane sight while in one of your favorite terrains, then you are not automatically revealed after the attack resolves. Instead after each attack, make a new stealth check with disadvantage. Enemy creatures get the chance to make a free opposed wisdom (perception) check after each stealth check resolves. You are only revealed if a creature manages to beat your new stealth check."
    -The range of Feral Senses is increased to 45'.

    New level 20 ability: Relentless hunter: Your training and connection to nature makes you an inescapable and lethal hunter, capable of taking down anything that you care to hunt. Select three new favorite enemies and three new favorite terrains. When tracking a favored enemy, you have expertise on all wisdom (survival) checks to do so and expertise on all intelligence checks to identify the capabilities and identity of your favorite enemies. Additionally, you have advantage on all dexterity (stealth) checks and wisdom (perception) checks while within a favorite terrain. Finally, you may use foe slayer twice per round.

    -Hunter subtype:
    --Collosus slayer deals 1d8+1/4 your levels in ranger in damage (to promote a bit of scaling).
    --The attack from Horde breaker has advantage if you are wielding a melee weapon in both hands.
    --Steel will grants advantage on saves against charm and fear effects.
    --(Clarification instead of an edit) If you use Whirlwind Attack, you can move between attacks and attack every new creature you pass by once.

    -Beastmaster:
    --Ranger's companion may be commanded as a bonus action instead of an action. However, if you direct the companion as a bonus action then your companion does not add your proficiency bonus to its armor class, saving throws or attack and damage rolls until you direct it as an action. You use either the creature's base hit points or 5x your ranger level for the animal companion's hit points, whichever is greater. You may also get better animals as you level up (CR 1/2 critters at level 6, CR 1 at level 12, CR 2 at level 18)
    --Has Animal Friendship as a spell known and always prepared.
    Last edited by Gnomes2169; 2015-01-24 at 02:00 PM.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Flumph

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    Default Re: Some edits for the ranger

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnomes2169 View Post
    ... Because I do honestly think it could use a few fixes, but I don't know if it's going overboard. So comments/ critiques are more than welcome here.

    General:
    -The level 20 ability is terrible, and should be part of Favored Enemy from level 6. As such, they need a new level 20 ability... I'm totally open to suggestions here.
    -You may change your known spells each day.
    -Primeval awareness gives you darkvision to 60' if you don't have it, or increase it by 60' if you do on top of the whole "Awareness of non-normal critters" thing it does.
    -The range of Feral Senses is increased to 45'.

    -Hunter subtype:
    --Collosus slayer can be used more than once/ turn.
    --Horde breaker gives an attack for each weapon you are wielding.
    --Steel will is proficiency in wisdom saves instead of proficiency on ONLY saves against fear.
    --(Clarification instead of an edit) If you use Whirlwind Attack, you can move and attack every new creature you pass by once.

    -Beastmaster:
    --Ranger's companion can be commanded as a bonus action instead of an action, and adds 4xYour level to its hit point maximum. You may also get better animals as you level up (CR 1/2 critters at level 6, CR 1 at level 12, CR 2 at level 18)
    --Has Animal Friendship as a spell known and always prepared.
    1. General changes are decent. Personally I would add a certain amount of spells you can prepare adding to the whole Ranger tricks or traps as spell and change Hide in Plain sight as it is currently a one hide check wonder which takes too long to prepare again. As for a level 20 ability I would outright give them an ability to make all terrain favored terrains and can use Foe Slayer on any foe in which you have knowledge of as well as get one more use.
    2. Hunter, you just made Colossus Slayer definitively the best one for any combination. I would scale the damage a bit instead. Steel Will is statistically the best one as you give a 15th level ability as a 7th and your contingent AC boost doesn't even compare in numbers. I would just add advantage against being charmed as well balancing out well against Mindless Rage or if you are worried that it doesn't benefit Elvish characters all that well make it a flat +2 bonus and reroll a 1 on that save since the other two are situational.
    3. Beastmaster, while I can agree with most of the changes the bonus action attacks for the critter is just a flat no. Remember it adds your proficiency bonus to damage too so this outclasses flurry and a Fighter very early on consistently.

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    Default Re: Some edits for the ranger

    As it is, the Beastmaster doesn't really need that big of a boost. While expanding your animal choices is a good idea, the actual abilities don't need to be stronger.

    A Beastmaster with a Panther companion can get off up to five attacks; other Companions can net you up to four attacks. Giant Poisonous Snakes can get you two attacks that deal 3d6 + Proficiency Poison damage as a rider effect.

    But adding 4 x Level is a bit much; the idea is that they are getting the "average" value of a d8 HD. Bumping it to 5 x Level might be good, though.




    I'd also be wary of boosting attacks with Horde Breaker - giving out attacks is a pretty powerful thing.
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    Default Re: Some edits for the ranger

    Quote Originally Posted by Amnoriath View Post
    1. General changes are decent. Personally I would add a certain amount of spells you can prepare adding to the whole Ranger tricks or traps as spell and change Hide in Plain sight as it is currently a one hide check wonder which takes too long to prepare again. As for a level 20 ability I would outright give them an ability to make all terrain favored terrains and can use Foe Slayer on any foe in which you have knowledge of as well as get one more use.
    Hmmm... Hide in Plain Sight should probably be a bit more usable (maybe changing it to an action instead of a 10 minute shenanigan), and maybe for the level 20 ability they get an ability called "Relentless Hunter," which goes a little bit like this...

    Relentless hunter: Select three additional favorite terrains and favorite enemies, you double your expertise on all wisdom (survival) checks to track your favored enemies, and advantage on all stealth and perception checks made within any of your favorite terrains. Finally, you gain the ability to memorize 4 additional spells each day.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amnoriath View Post
    2. Hunter, you just made Colossus Slayer definitively the best one for any combination. I would scale the damage a bit instead. Steel Will is statistically the best one as you give a 15th level ability as a 7th and your contingent AC boost doesn't even compare in numbers. I would just add advantage against being charmed as well balancing out well against Mindless Rage or if you are worried that it doesn't benefit Elvish characters all that well make it a flat +2 bonus and reroll a 1 on that save since the other two are situational.
    Hmmmm... how would you go about scaling it? Increasing the die size doesn't seem like that much of a boost, and I'm leery about adding extra d8's on the one attack.

    For steel will... yeah, just making it advantage against charm effects as well is probably more in order. I'm not too worried about elves feeling discriminated against, it's still a partial boon for them (advantage against fear) and they have other options to choose from.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amnoriath View Post
    3. Beastmaster, while I can agree with most of the changes the bonus action attacks for the critter is just a flat no. Remember it adds your proficiency bonus to damage too so this outclasses flurry and a Fighter very early on consistently.
    Ah, good point... how about instead of making it a bonus action, the beast can act on its own, but unless you spend an action directing it the animal companion it doesn't add your proficiency bonus to its attack, damage, armor class or saving throws? I'm just trying to get over the disconnect between having a living, thinking, breathing animal companion and the animal apparently being brain dead unless you direct its every little action. This way, yes. It's alive. But it's only really effective if you work in concert with it by directing its actions. Does that seem like it works better?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amechra View Post
    As it is, the Beastmaster doesn't really need that big of a boost. While expanding your animal choices is a good idea, the actual abilities don't need to be stronger.

    A Beastmaster with a Panther companion can get off up to five attacks; other Companions can net you up to four attacks. Giant Poisonous Snakes can get you two attacks that deal 3d6 + Proficiency Poison damage as a rider effect.

    But adding 4 x Level is a bit much; the idea is that they are getting the "average" value of a d8 HD. Bumping it to 5 x Level might be good, though.
    The problem with having animal companion HP so low is that it simply doesn't match the scaling damage of enemies, and one average breath from a dragon can kill your level 20 class ability that's responsible for a good 1/2 or 1/3 of your DPR/ battlefield control. Adding 4xlevel to HP isn't that much of a boost for the CR 1/4 critters as is, and I think that the max HP it could get is 99 instead of 80. The 5xlevel makes the cap 100 for all creatures instead, which does make it roughly equal and keeps it out of 1-shot dragon breath range... Perhaps that should be the edit instead, thinking about it. It wouldn't make the biggest critters an out-right advantage unless it's a special attack that's not available in the CR 1/8-1/4 range... which basically is limited to a +1 hit and damage bonus from a higher stat, since poisons and on-hit abilities tend not to scale too much between CR 1/4-2. Even the number of attacks a creature gets don't really scale too much, most CR 2 creatures get 1-2 attacks, which is again a thing that CR 1/4 beasts also get.

    The bonus action attack is something that I agree should be changed, since it is just too large of an advantage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amechra View Post
    I'd also be wary of boosting attacks with Horde Breaker - giving out attacks is a pretty powerful thing.
    Really, it just makes two-weapon fighting and melee a bit more viable as far as the hunter goes. A single extra attack with your offhand weapon 1/round isn't the most powerful of things, and it makes it compete a little more with colossus slayer. It's more just how limited the use of horde breaker is in play, you actually have to be fighting a horde. Currently, Duelist is actually the best way to do this (what with being able to use a higher damage die by default and getting a +2 on top of it), with archery being a close second and TWF just falling behind again.

    Perhaps instead of a second attack, it could be advantage on the bonus attack instead? That way it's still just one attack (and likely lower damage than the other options), but it's more likely to hit than archery or duelist, so it's more likely to actually deal damage.

    Also, sorry for missing your comment before, I forgot to refresh the page.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Flumph

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    Default Re: Some edits for the ranger

    1. The Ranger has 3 dead levels(9, 13, 17) so personally I would give the bonus spells earlier on and second half later on. I would actually wait with Foe Slayer until 13 as this spread out the damage dealing better while giving better utility earlier. The capstone is otherwise good but I would still insist on a second use of Foe Slayer. Also it is 1 minute. The time isn't so much an issue with me as it is the I take any action it is gone. I would just change it so that it can only work in the appropriate terrain and disappears once you take damage.
    2. I would make it 1d8+1/4 class level this makes it like a light extra attack. For Horde Breaker mainly its situational use is its heel. Interpreting Whirlwind Attack on how it actually with moving and attack does help quite a bit. Advantage on it might work and balances out to how it is now about.

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    Kobold

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    Default Re: Some edits for the ranger

    Away from book... And its 4 am and I'm running on no sleep...

    Just make Favored Enemy and Favored Terrain into abilities called Terrain Master and Enemy of All (or whatever).

    Take the original versions and apply them to all foes and terrains.

    Make getting food for people be better than choosing GoodBerry as a first level spell.

    Strong? Somewhat, but this cuts down on book keeping and makes it worth a level or two in the class. Since it is pretty much skill based I'm not to worried about people dipping... I would think getting expertise in some skills would be worth more than this.

    Level 20:

    As an action, once per long rest, you make a weapon attack against a target within your reach or normal range. You automatically hit your target dealing 100 points of damage.

    (This is a non-magical version of Power Word Kill. Fluff it up and you can have a pretty awesome capstone. When you just need to hit and kill something this is your go to ability 1/long rest.)

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    Default Re: Some edits for the ranger

    Quote Originally Posted by Amnoriath View Post
    1. The Ranger has 3 dead levels(9, 13, 17) so personally I would give the bonus spells earlier on and second half later on. I would actually wait with Foe Slayer until 13 as this spread out the damage dealing better while giving better utility earlier. The capstone is otherwise good but I would still insist on a second use of Foe Slayer. Also it is 1 minute. The time isn't so much an issue with me as it is the I take any action it is gone. I would just change it so that it can only work in the appropriate terrain and disappears once you take damage.
    2. I would make it 1d8+1/4 class level this makes it like a light extra attack. For Horde Breaker mainly its situational use is its heel. Interpreting Whirlwind Attack on how it actually with moving and attack does help quite a bit. Advantage on it might work and balances out to how it is now about.
    1. Alright, check the general edits again. Level 9 and 17 should have the 2 extra spells known/ prepped, and Foe Slayer has been moved to level 13 as a once-per-round ability. You get a second use of it/ round at level 20.

    2. 1d8+1/4 your level is a bit too small on the scaling side of things. This will cap out at 1d8+5 by level 20, which doesn't match the extra attack of horde breaker if you get an even slightly magical weapon (let alone the really useful stuff... like the Firebrand, which you are likely to get by that point seeing as it's only as rare as a +2 sword). 1d8+1/3 or 1/2 level seems like it scales a bit better over all because of that.

    Quote Originally Posted by CrusaderJoe View Post
    Away from book... And its 4 am and I'm running on no sleep...

    Just make Favored Enemy and Favored Terrain into abilities called Terrain Master and Enemy of All (or whatever).

    Take the original versions and apply them to all foes and terrains.
    I would rather not do that, since it does feel more like a developing character learning how to live (and even thrive) in a land other than their home. Perhaps giving a second favorite enemy at level 1 would be in order (since there are just so dang many of them), but a blanket "I know and track literally everything because reasons" is a bit strong. I've also played with that character (and played that character)... no one likes the know-it-all.

    Quote Originally Posted by CrusaderJoe View Post
    Make getting food for people be better than choosing GoodBerry as a first level spell.

    Strong? Somewhat, but this cuts down on book keeping and makes it worth a level or two in the class. Since it is pretty much skill based I'm not to worried about people dipping... I would think getting expertise in some skills would be worth more than this.
    I would rather leave that up to the Outlander background, since they are able to provide food for the party as is.

    Quote Originally Posted by CrusaderJoe View Post
    Level 20:

    As an action, once per long rest, you make a weapon attack against a target within your reach or normal range. You automatically hit your target dealing 100 points of damage.

    (This is a non-magical version of Power Word Kill. Fluff it up and you can have a pretty awesome capstone. When you just need to hit and kill something this is your go to ability 1/long rest.)
    Ehhhh... just straight damage seems like it wouldn't be the most interesting or thematic of abilities. The strong theme of a natural hunter who is dominant in a mastered terrain is present throughout the ranger, which is something the capstone should embody (imo of course). I want the capstone to embody the ultimate ranger, to be the guy who will find you, and who you never see coming because quite simply, he knows the world better than you. A free power word kill just isn't what I'm looking for here, unfortunately. Sorry.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Some edits for the ranger

    Horde Breaker is situational though. Colossus Slayer is far more reliable. So having it smaller makes sense.

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    Default Re: Some edits for the ranger

    Quote Originally Posted by Amnoriath View Post
    Horde Breaker is situational though. Colossus Slayer is far more reliable. So having it smaller makes sense.
    Ah, good point... Alright, 1/4 level is is then!

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    Default Re: Some edits for the ranger

    Alright, I've got a thing in there for Hide in Plane Sight now. Comments on it?

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    Default Re: Some edits for the ranger

    For what it's worth, I really like the new Hide in Plain Sight bit you've added. The idea of possible but difficult seems fitting for attacking without being revealed.
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