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    Orc in the Playground
     
    Galathir's Avatar

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    Default Wall of China . . . for free?

    I was just reading through ToB and was looking at the Deepstone Sentinel PrC. According to the text, he can use his Dragon's Tooth ability to create stone pillars, each occupying a 5 foot square. As each pillar only takes a standard action to make, he could make four and a half miles of stone wall in only eight hours. (5 feet/round x 10 rounds/minute x 60 minutes/hour x 8 hours/day / 5280 feet = 4.54 miles). The text says nothing about the duration of the pillar other than that you can dismiss it as a standard action. Would this work? If so, you could prepare some pretty formidable defenses if you had a few hours notice.
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    Orc in the Playground
     
    Tellah's Avatar

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    Default Re: Wall of China . . . for free?

    Sure! That's an excellent use of the ability. I might use that for a little plot hook sometime.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Amiria's Avatar

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    Default Re: Wall of China . . . for free?

    One of the great mysteries of dwarven stonemasonry has finally been revealed.
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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Wall of China . . . for free?

    Sweet Jesus, now I have a reason to play a dwarf.
    Do not meddle in the affairs of adventurers, for you are expendable and full of EXP.


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    Troll in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Wall of China . . . for free?

    But they're all pillars... not continuous wall. Depending on the type of pillar, couldn't you just squeeze through them?

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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Wall of China . . . for free?

    Not if they are all 5 foot in diameter, then you place them next to each other and they are touching each other. Of course it just says that it takes up a 5 foot square, and not that they are 5 feet in diameter. So it would depend on rules about squeezing between things, which I don't know if they exist, and DM fiat unless the diameter is specified somewhere and just not stated in this topic.
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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Black Mage's Avatar

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    Default Re: Wall of China . . . for free?

    A pillar doesn't have to be round, it could be a 5x5 square, meaning that you could make a solid wall of these. Get a team of these guys and you can have it done pretty quick.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TimeWizard View Post
    Jade Phoenix Mages have the coolest capstone ability ever. They explode. Low on health? explode. Surrounded? expolde. Outsiders? explode. Explode? explode. Come back a few rounds later with all your hp.
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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Wall of China . . . for free?

    I had this idea as soon as I read the PrC. It gets better for building your HQ. You make a solid wall, with no gaps, then build a floor on top of that etc. You don't build any doors, you just dismiss/add new pillars instead. Could be pretty cool.

    Also useful for setting traps. Dig a hole 10ft deep, 'bout 15ft wide, put nasty stuff on the bottom, then place planks of wood, balanced form the pillar to the edge, like spokes. Then place a tarpaulin over the top, then add appropriate camofluage over the top. Wait for the enemy to walk over, dismiss pillar.
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    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Wall of China . . . for free?

    Actually, I wouldn't make a solid wall. I'd make a corridor, fifteen feet wide, of which I'd stand in the middle.

    The thing about Deepstone Sentinels is that, unlike their counterpart Dwarven Defender, they have a method of getting their foes to come to them.

    Warblade 2/Knight 3/Deepstone Sentinel 5/Dwarven Defender 10 is pretty much the ultimate in immobile destruction for exactly that reason: it has a variety of methods of forcing it's opponents to come to it.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Wall of China . . . for free?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fax_Celestis View Post
    The thing about Deepstone Sentinels is that, unlike their counterpart Dwarven Defender, they have a method of getting their foes to come to them.
    Maybe I'm missing it, but what method is that? Do you mean just harassing them with Dragon's Teeth until they're forced to deal with you?

    Now, your warblade/knight/etc build looks quite interesting.
    "'To know, to do, and to keep silent.' Crowley had the first two down pat."

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    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Wall of China . . . for free?

    Quote Originally Posted by SpiderBrigade View Post
    Maybe I'm missing it, but what method is that? Do you mean just harassing them with Dragon's Teeth until they're forced to deal with you?

    Now, your warblade/knight/etc build looks quite interesting.
    Pretty much.

    I have yet to try the build I've posted, but mechanically it seems sound. You'd need a high CHA, though, for Knight's Challenge, which is atypical for a fighter-type.

    Further, I'm not sure if terrain modifiers stack. One of the Knight's abilities makes terrain more difficult, as does the Deepstone Sentinel's Mountain Stance. If it does, you could force someone to spend four squares to move one square for all squares you threaten.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Wall of China . . . for free?

    Hmm, I think they wouldn't stack, as the Deepwarden creates actual difficult terrain, and the Knight's Bulwark of Defense ability causes squares you threaten to be "treated as difficult," which doesn't do anything if those squares already ARE difficult. It'd be nice if the ability said that already-difficult squares became MORE difficult, but it really doesn't.

    Of course, this is why you want a reach weapon. Making all squares within 10 feet of you difficult terrain is awesome anyway.
    "'To know, to do, and to keep silent.' Crowley had the first two down pat."

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    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Wall of China . . . for free?

    Quote Originally Posted by SpiderBrigade View Post
    Hmm, I think they wouldn't stack, as the Deepwarden creates actual difficult terrain, and the Knight's Bulwark of Defense ability causes squares you threaten to be "treated as difficult," which doesn't do anything if those squares already ARE difficult. It'd be nice if the ability said that already-difficult squares became MORE difficult, but it really doesn't.

    Of course, this is why you want a reach weapon. Making all squares within 10 feet of you difficult terrain is awesome anyway.
    It also effectively prevents people from charging you, since you can't (usually) charge through difficult terrain.

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    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Wall of China . . . for free?

    that build is amazing, and the deepstone sentinal is probably the best PrC in that book. Though in most of the games i am playing it is house ruled that you dont have to be a drawf to use it
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    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Wall of China . . . for free?

    Quote Originally Posted by Innis Cabal View Post
    that build is amazing, and the deepstone sentinal is probably the best PrC in that book. Though in most of the games i am playing it is house ruled that you dont have to be a drawf to use it
    I'd venture to say that the Ruby Knight Vindicator and the Jade Phoenix Mage are tied for "Best ToB PrC", but the Deepstone Sentinel certainly is a good one.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Wall of China . . . for free?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fax_Celestis View Post
    I'd venture to say that the Ruby Knight Vindicator and the Jade Phoenix Mage are tied for "Best ToB PrC", but the Deepstone Sentinel certainly is a good one.
    Jade Phoenix Mages have the coolest capstone ability ever. They explode. Low on health? explode. Surrounded? expolde. Outsiders? explode. Explode? explode. Come back a few rounds later with all your hp.
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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Black Mage's Avatar

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    Default Re: Wall of China . . . for free?

    Quote Originally Posted by TimeWizard View Post
    Jade Phoenix Mages have the coolest capstone ability ever. They explode. Low on health? explode. Surrounded? expolde. Outsiders? explode. Explode? explode. Come back a few rounds later with all your hp.
    Quoted for pure awesome.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TimeWizard View Post
    Jade Phoenix Mages have the coolest capstone ability ever. They explode. Low on health? explode. Surrounded? expolde. Outsiders? explode. Explode? explode. Come back a few rounds later with all your hp.
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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Wall of China . . . for free?

    I prefer Eternal Blade myself, but thats because there's something about dwarves I just don't like.

    And Warblade/Duskblade/JPM is pretty solid.

    Am I the only one here who thinks that Shadow Sun Ninja is completely and utterly useless?
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    Firbolg in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Wall of China . . . for free?

    Quote Originally Posted by Were-Sandwich View Post
    Am I the only one here who thinks that Shadow Sun Ninja is completely and utterly useless?
    It's... problematic. The prereqs pretty much force you to pick up both Monk and SwordSage levels, which just kills your BAB. It also forces you to be Lawful Good, since monks have to be Lawful and SSN's have to be Good. The maneuver progression is darned near the worst in the book, and while the unarmed/flurry progression is nice, you lose so much BAB that you can't hit anything anyway, and you can't get Greater Flurry. The SSN is essentially everything that sucks about the monk, dialed up to "11", and then topped off with a wonky positive/negative energy ability that requires a bunch of bookkeeping.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Wall of China . . . for free?

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Mage View Post
    A pillar doesn't have to be round, it could be a 5x5 square, meaning that you could make a solid wall of these. Get a team of these guys and you can have it done pretty quick.
    It would be a wall, but hardly solid. It would consist of 5-foot sections which do not support each other in any way. Apply enough muscle to any section - much less muscle than you would need to break through an actual wall -, and that section topples, giving you a 5-foot gap.
    "I had thought - I had been told - that a 'funny' thing is a thing of goodness. It isn't. Not ever is it funny to the person it happens to. Like that sheriff without his pants. The goodness is in the laughing. I grok it is a bravery... and a sharing... against pain and sorrow and defeat."

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Wall of China . . . for free?

    That is why you use 64 days to create 8 of these walls, directly behind the first. That would be harder to plow through.
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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Wall of China . . . for free?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow of the Sun View Post
    That is why you use 64 days to create 8 of these walls, directly behind the first. That would be harder to plow through.
    Better yet, stagger them, so the section do support themselves.

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Wall of China . . . for free?

    That is what I meant, I was a bit vague.
    i am going to make it through this year
    if it kills me
    i am going to make it though this year
    if it kills me

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Wall of China . . . for free?

    Quote Originally Posted by Premier View Post
    It would be a wall, but hardly solid. It would consist of 5-foot sections which do not support each other in any way. Apply enough muscle to any section - much less muscle than you would need to break through an actual wall -, and that section topples, giving you a 5-foot gap.
    Well, except that the pillars are solid unworked stone and will not "topple." By the RAW it's just as hard to break a 5' stone pillar as it is to break through a 5' thick stone wall.
    "'To know, to do, and to keep silent.' Crowley had the first two down pat."

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    Titan in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Wall of China . . . for free?

    Yeah... that's why I hate all wall-creating spells and abilities so much.
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    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Wall of China . . . for free?

    If you can dismiss it, doesn't that mean it can be dispelled?

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    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Wall of China . . . for free?

    Quote Originally Posted by CharPixie View Post
    If you can dismiss it, doesn't that mean it can be dispelled?
    Nope. The ability is Supernatural (Su), not Spell-Like (Sp), which means it can't be dispelled or countered.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Wall of China . . . for free?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fax_Celestis View Post
    Nope. The ability is Supernatural (Su), not Spell-Like (Sp), which means it can't be dispelled or countered.
    However, it doesn't work in an AMF. What's that about?
    Last edited by martyboy74; 2007-04-03 at 03:29 PM.

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    Default Re: Wall of China . . . for free?

    Quote Originally Posted by martyboy74 View Post
    However, it doesn't work in an AMF. What's that about?
    You can't create it in an anti magic field, but you can create the wall, and then bring an AMF to it and it doesn't go poof. Correct?
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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Wall of China . . . for free?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramza00 View Post
    You can't create it in an anti magic field, but you can create the wall, and then bring an AMF to it and it doesn't go poof. Correct?
    Yes. My guess is that it uses magic to pull the rock out/create it, but not to maintain it, like conjuration.
    Last edited by martyboy74; 2007-04-03 at 03:35 PM.

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