The Legend of Korra, Book 5: It's canon. Deal with it.

[Zevox]

I treat Korra's proficiency in three elements at the age of three as artistic license. Either way, she was going to be properly introduced into the story as a sixteen-year-old who can wield fire, earth and water, but can't figure out air. Showing her as a toddler who uses those three elements and you just gotta deal with it was a way to introduce her in style.

It's not only that, it also ties into her character at the start of the show. With those first three elements she was an absolute prodigy, able to use them without any training at an age where there are probably benders who haven't even manifested their abilities yet, and she achieved mastery of them quickly. That feeds into her mindset about being the Avatar as being mostly about using those powers to kick the asses of whoever happens to be causing trouble in the world - it's what she's best at to begin with, and she's eager to put those abilities to use.

Of course we all know how that plotline turns out in the end, but still, that was an important part of the setup for it, and well-done in that respect. It's just the payoff that failed.

[Zevox]

For anyone who might enjoy it, Brian Konietzko (one of the show's co-creators) apparently posted some artwork he did for an Avatar art exhibition on Tumblr today. It's Korra and Asami on a date, riding a boat shaped like a turtle-duck in front of an Eiffel-Tower-esque structure. It's actually quite good, and he has a close-up of the two cuddling, which is rather cute (despite exposing some lack of detail on Asami's fingers).

And since I'm posting anyway, I'm curious: did anyone else play the Legend of Korra video game from Platinum that was released last year? I recently went back to it to play it on the "expert" difficulty (since the release of Bayonetta 2 distracted me from doing so after I finished it the first time around). I wish I could say that it was better that way, but not so much - if anything the higher difficulty just makes exploiting the game's imbalances more important (earth- and airbending being extremely powerful when charged up, mainly). Except for the final boss fight, which is pretty good, but that was true on the normal difficulty as well. It's a real pity, as it seems obvious the game could've been very good, it just comes across like Platinum either had little development time, too small a budget, or (most likely I'd wager) both, resulting in a game with their usual solid core gameplay, but not nearly as much polish as their other titles, too little variety (especially in the enemies), and some balance issues.

I did like the Pro Bending mini-game more the second time around at least. Still hated the Naga stages though.

[LaZodiac]

I still need to get that game.

Also yeah wow that picture is adorable.

[Morty]

It certainly is adorable. It warms my shrivelled black heart. They just look so happy, don't they?

As far as the game goes, I've considered getting it a few times, but never did. From what I've heard, it's okay if you don't go in expecting too much. Kind of a shame the Avatar franchise has yet to receive a good video game adaptation - apparently the ATLA games weren't even as good as the LoK one.

[Metahuman1]

Well, it's Nick, when have they ever put meaningful effort into something they licensed as a video game, or meaningful time or money far as that goes?


That's a serious question, I don't know of any cases of that happening.

[LaZodiac]

Well, it's Nick, when have they ever put meaningful effort into something they licensed as a video game, or meaningful time or money far as that goes?


That's a serious question, I don't know of any cases of that happening.

Hey now, Platinum makes good games. I'm sure they did as best as they could with the shoe string budget they where likely tossed.

[Metahuman1]

Which is why I specified Nick and not Platinum.

[AdmiralCheez]

Also, I imagine that capturing the best of bending is pretty hard to do in a video game format. Bending stuff like earth or water into sculptures or freezing you and your enemy together to capture them is not going to be easy to program or issue commands for in real time. It's an art form, and is only limited by the creativity of the bender, so it doesn't really fit in the limitations of a video game. Tabletop games, on the other hand...

[Flickerdart]

Eh, most of Korra-era bending was "throw the element at the guy."

I think the best mechanic to represent it would be the fighting system from Kingdom of Paradise, an old PSP game. The gist of it was that you could find scrolls and assign them to buttons in a sequence. So if you had "trip" and then "downward strike" you could create a combo out of that and whenever you hit X, X it would first trip and then whack the enemy. They even had four fighting schools (IIRC phoenix, turtle, tiger, and dragon) and aside from a few legendary combo slots, a scroll could only use moves of a particular school.

So if you could have this in an Avatar game, then as the Avatar you could get these scrolls from bending masters, then mix together moves from different bending arts and generally be a boss.

[LibraryOgre]

Eh, most of Korra-era bending was "throw the element at the guy."

I think the best mechanic to represent it would be the fighting system from Kingdom of Paradise, an old PSP game. The gist of it was that you could find scrolls and assign them to buttons in a sequence. So if you had "trip" and then "downward strike" you could create a combo out of that and whenever you hit X, X it would first trip and then whack the enemy. They even had four fighting schools (IIRC phoenix, turtle, tiger, and dragon) and aside from a few legendary combo slots, a scroll could only use moves of a particular school.

So if you could have this in an Avatar game, then as the Avatar you could get these scrolls from bending masters, then mix together moves from different bending arts and generally be a boss.

Reminds me of River City Ransom, where you get books that allow you to use certain moves. ;-)

[Zevox]

As far as the game goes, I've considered getting it a few times, but never did. From what I've heard, it's okay if you don't go in expecting too much.

That is pretty much the case, yeah. It's Platinum Games on a budget: strong core foundation, but not enough polish or content to make it shine. If you're a fan of both Avatar and Platinum-style action games it's not a bad buy, but it's hard to recommend other than that. If you're just an action game fan, there's a lot of better ones, including everything else Platinum has ever made. If you're just an Avatar fan, you're not missing anything as far as the story goes, and while the gameplay is undoubtedly the best an Avatar game has ever had, there's so little content that there's good odds that someone who isn't a big fan of the game style will be dissatisfied with it even for the budget price tag.

Well, it's Nick, when have they ever put meaningful effort into something they licensed as a video game, or meaningful time or money far as that goes?


That's a serious question, I don't know of any cases of that happening.

For much that reason I'm still shocked that someone over there convinced them to enlist Platinum to make the game at all. I'd expect Nick just to throw it out to the lowest bidder, which probably would've been some small-time western company, not a notable-if-niche Japanese company. Somebody was clearly at least hoping to get something better than usual out of this one if they went and did that. Which, to be fair, they did - it is head and shoulders above the A:TLA games (or at least the one I played, but by all accounts the other two are basically the same thing). They just didn't give Platinum enough to work with to get something actually good.

Also, I imagine that capturing the best of bending is pretty hard to do in a video game format. Bending stuff like earth or water into sculptures or freezing you and your enemy together to capture them is not going to be easy to program or issue commands for in real time. It's an art form, and is only limited by the creativity of the bender, so it doesn't really fit in the limitations of a video game.

To some extent that's true - kind of like why it's unlikely we'll ever see a good Green Lantern game. But I think it's less of an issue for bending, since the main thing you really want to be able to do is fight with it, and it's entirely possible to create a lot of different options for various attacks, special effects, etc for an action game and have it work. You'd likely never be able to capture everything bending should be able to do, but you should be able to do enough to make a damn good game out of it, if the right company were given sufficient time and money to do so.

[AdmiralCheez]

For much that reason I'm still shocked that someone over there convinced them to enlist Platinum to make the game at all.

Maybe they picked Platinum because they thought they could make the game un-bendable.
(I hope no one made that joke already.)

To some extent that's true - kind of like why it's unlikely we'll ever see a good Green Lantern game. But I think it's less of an issue for bending, since the main thing you really want to be able to do is fight with it, and it's entirely possible to create a lot of different options for various attacks, special effects, etc for an action game and have it work. You'd likely never be able to capture everything bending should be able to do, but you should be able to do enough to make a damn good game out of it, if the right company were given sufficient time and money to do so.

Yeah, it's by no means impossible, just a really difficult task that would need a lot more development time and money than Nick would probably be willing to part with. Maybe some game company should try to make one of those clearly-inspired-by-but-in-no-way-related-to things. Who knows, maybe it'll become so popular that someone other than Nick buys the rights to the TV adaptation, and actually does something positive with it, giving us a spiritual successor to Avatar with less executive meddling.

It's highly unlikely, but we can dream.

[Reddish Mage]

Maybe they picked Platinum because they thought they could make the game un-bendable.
(I hope no one made that joke already.)


Yeah, it's by no means impossible, just a really difficult task that would need a lot more development time and money than Nick would probably be willing to part with. Maybe some game company should try to make one of those clearly-inspired-by-but-in-no-way-related-to things. Who knows, maybe it'll become so popular that someone other than Nick buys the rights to the TV adaptation, and actually does something positive with it, giving us a spiritual successor to Avatar with less executive meddling.

It's highly unlikely, but we can dream.

Does Nick have the rights to every Avatar spin-off? Also, its about time for the co-creators to take the core concept of a high-quality, anime-inspired, action fantasy animation that tackles serious issues and create a new world for it for viewers of all ages.

[AdmiralCheez]

Does Nick have the rights to every Avatar spin-off? Also, its about time for the co-creators to take the core concept of a high-quality, anime-inspired, action fantasy animation that tackles serious issues and create a new world for it for viewers of all ages.

I have no idea, but I would assume that they own every bit that's been produced so far. So, there would probably be some issues if someone else started making a show featuring things like the Fire Nation, or the Dai Li, or referencing named Avatars.

I agree though, that they should start over in a new world with new characters and problems, and just stay away from Nick. I'm sure if some other network (or animated film studio, it doesn't have to be a TV series) wanted to fund it, they'd have a decent shot of being picked up.

[Solse]

I have no idea, but I would assume that they own every bit that's been produced so far. So, there would probably be some issues if someone else started making a show featuring things like the Fire Nation, or the Dai Li, or referencing named Avatars.

I agree though, that they should start over in a new world with new characters and problems, and just stay away from Nick. I'm sure if some other network (or animated film studio, it doesn't have to be a TV series) wanted to fund it, they'd have a decent shot of being picked up.

I heard somewhere that Bryke would be unveiling a similar "wordbuilding" show at PAX or something. Seeing as how the last day of the convention is tomorrow, I don't know how credible that info is... but one can hope, right?

[Zevox]

I don't know, I still hope to see more actual Avatar at some point in the future. If Nickelodeon truly thinks the franchise is a lost cause as a money-maker then maybe the creators can convince them to sell the rights to someone who doesn't. If they don't think that then I figure that at some point they'll decide they want to try again anyway, and it's just a question of when.

A new show entirely, eh, I'd give it a shot to be sure. It's always been in large part the characters that endeared me to these shows more than the world, so maybe they can continue to give me characters I'll like just as much as Toph, Korra, Katara, Iroh, and so on in something otherwise unrelated. But I'd be lying if I said that the world didn't play a part in my enjoyment of the series, particularly the whole concept of bending and the great fight scenes it allows. So I do have a hard time imagining I'd get truly excited for something wholly new from them, at least at first.

[AdmiralCheez]

Yeah, I hope they can continue in the same world too; if they can do it without Nick, even better. Worst case scenario is where they make something new, and I'd still give it a shot. They obviously got something right to draw our attention, or else we wouldn't be having this conversation.

[Reddish Mage]

I don't know, I still hope to see more actual Avatar at some point in the future. If Nickelodeon truly thinks the franchise is a lost cause as a money-maker then maybe the creators can convince them to sell the rights to someone who doesn't. If they don't think that then I figure that at some point they'll decide they want to try again anyway, and it's just a question of when.

There's always comics, but I think Nick's meddling and being attached to an American children's network means the pair simply isn't going to get the creative license to take things to there greatest limits

A new show entirely, eh, I'd give it a shot to be sure. It's always been in large part the characters that endeared me to these shows more than the world, so maybe they can continue to give me characters I'll like just as much as Toph, Korra, Katara, Iroh, and so on in something otherwise unrelated. But I'd be lying if I said that the world didn't play a part in my enjoyment of the series, particularly the whole concept of bending and the great fight scenes it allows. So I do have a hard time imagining I'd get truly excited for something wholly new from them, at least at first.[/QUOTE]

I agree though, that they should start over in a new world with new characters and problems, and just stay away from Nick. I'm sure if some other network (or animated film studio, it doesn't have to be a TV series) wanted to fund it, they'd have a decent shot of being picked up.

Wait a second, a non-traditional anime-inspired martial arts action show that doesn't have to be on TV...and could be an independent studio? Can someone contact Rooster Teeth? There's a newly orphaned series in need of some love.

[Lord Raziere]

Wait a second, a non-traditional anime-inspired martial arts action show that doesn't have to be on TV...and could be an independent studio? Can someone contact Rooster Teeth? There's a newly orphaned series in need of some love.

my god. RWBY made by the guys who made Avatar? thats like, I don't even this awesome.

[LaZodiac]

my god. RWBY made by the guys who made Avatar? thats like, I don't even this awesome.

I'd watch it. I'd watch it ten times. Even if like, the story was worse, it'd at least be really good looking.

[Morty]

I'm with Zevox on this one. I'd love to see more of the characters, both those from ATLA and the ones from LoK - but the setting doesn't interest me much. It never did have that much going for it other than bending, and between the spirit Pokemon and sci-fi tech, LoK took it in places I don't really like.

[Zevox]

So, after getting my copies of books 3 and 4 on Blu-Ray in the mail recently, I decided to do a full re-watch of the series. Half as an excuse to re-watch the good stuff (and afterward watch all the blu-ray extra features), half because I figured I should give the other half of the series a re-watch to make up my mind as to whether it's worth owning for the sake of having a full collection (considering I also already have all three seasons of TLA), or if it's really so bad that I don't even want it for that.

I just finished with book 1, which marks the only time since they aired that I re-watched any of those episodes. It was kind of a strange experience, honestly. The first few are very bittersweet to see again - they come across as so brimming with promise and potential, especially the very first, yet in the back of my mind is always the knowledge of how it all turns out. And overall, oddly, most of the episodes I think come across fine on an individual basis, and I'm able to enjoy watching them at the time I'm viewing them (the exceptions being the shipping episode and the very final episode), it's just when taken as a whole and trying to make them into a cohesive story that they fall so flat. It's strange to see something that I can mostly enjoy watching, yet also look at and feel like everything from episode 4 onward needed serious re-writes to make it into something genuinely good.

I will say this: the love triangle is not as bad the second time through. I think for exactly the reason those first few episodes come across as btiterwsweet: foreknowledge of the ending. One thing I kinda hated about it the first time was figuring that it would inevitably end with Korra and Mako getting together, and that this would be passed off as true love and be the series' big happy couple, akin to Aang and Katara, despite the clearly unhealthy way the relationship develops. Knowing that it's only briefly treated that way in the book 1 finale, and then instead is taken to its logical conclusion in book 2, actually helps make it less painful. Not good, of course, but more bearable. It probably also helped that having seen the later seasons gives me more of a reason to care about the characters involved too, of course - I vaguely recall originally coming away from book 1 mostly liking Lin, Tenzin, and more distantly Korra, but not much of anybody else. And it is also kinda fun to watch for moments between Korra and Asami that can be re-interpreted in light of the knowledge of their bisexuality - not that there are many, since they barely talk to each other for most of book 1, but still, there's a couple.

I've also been watching Doug Walker's vlogs of the show as I go (which I'd never watched before, even though I watched his full TLA vlogs as they went up), and reading Aotrs Commander's posts about his first watch. Doug mostly just has the reactions I did the first time around, aside from being strangely positive about the ending, at least insofar as Amon goes, which was kinda bizarre to see. Bleakbane though, well, I think he successfully lowered my opinion of Amon, even though it already wasn't very high. I don't have anywhere near the visceral reaction of hatred for how he's portrayed that Bleakbane does, but I completely understand his criticisms and think they're mostly pretty valid points. Amon as portrayed in the show is just an idiot: he never had a realistic goal, does a number of very stupid things (like capturing Korra only to let her go in episode 4, something I thought was dumb even the first time around), is never shown earning the victories he's given - he pretty much just operates by author fiat, having everything work out for him off-screen, right up until the end. Which I guess makes it kinda appropriate that he's ultimately undone by his own stupidity in revealing himself in such a flashy fashion. And yet that still doesn't make that ending any better.

Well, anyway, I'll be starting up my re-watch of book 2 sometime in the next few days I imagine. Given that was the one that made me give up on the show the first time I saw it, I can't say I'm looking forward to it. But hey, I enjoyed the re-watch of book 1 more than I expected to, so who knows. And at least I have the Avatar Wan episodes to look forward to, since I did enjoy those even the first time around.

[Metahuman1]

The though occurs to me that while LAB did have an overall better coheasive narrative between the 3 seasons, it did, particularly in seasons 1 and 3, have no shortage of stand alone eps either. Just an observation.

[Zevox]

The though occurs to me that while LAB did have an overall better coheasive narrative between the 3 seasons, it did, particularly in seasons 1 and 3, have no shortage of stand alone eps either. Just an observation.

Oh, certainly. Most of book 1 of TLA was single episodes about the gang's various misadventures on their way between the South and North poles. Which worked quite well for that point in the story - the group was a bunch of kids on a journey from literally one end of the world to the other, so yeah, it made total sense that they were stopping off in different places all the time along the way. And it let the show work as a more episodic kid's show at first, the way Nickelodeon probably wanted at the time.

Legend of Korra never really had the luxury of much time to spend on stand-alone episodes, though, due to having less time in each season, and each season trying to tell a complete story. Especially for book 1, which had so many plot threads to work through in only twelve episodes - pro-bending, Tarrlok, the love triangle, Hiroshi Sato, Amon, Korra's trouble learning airbending. They kinda bit off more than they could chew there, I think.

[LibraryOgre]

Oh, certainly. Most of book 1 of TLA was single episodes about the gang's various misadventures on their way between the South and North poles. Which worked quite well for that point in the story - the group was a bunch of kids on a journey from literally one end of the world to the other, so yeah, it made total sense that they were stopping off in different places all the time along the way. And it let the show work as a more episodic kid's show at first, the way Nickelodeon probably wanted at the time.

A lot of it was also (whether planned so or not) scaffolding for stuff that would come later.

[Morty]

Amon is like the entire Book One concentrated in one person - brimming with potential, promising something amazing... empty and disappointing inside. Amon's mask fell off to reveal a super-bloodbender with daddy issues, and Book One's mask fell off to reveal a shallow action flick rather than a subversive story.

Also, Legend of Korra, regardless of how one sees its different parts, is just a different show than ATLA. The setting is the same, many characters recur, but everything else is different. The pacing, the focus, the theme, the story structure... the list goes on. This is why I try not to compare them too much. I judge each show on its own merits. Or lack thereof. Especially since as critical as I can be of LoK, there's a lot of idealization and selective memory going on with ATLA. Which is normal, of course.

[dehro]

In some ways Amon is like Hans Gruber.. Except There is no Alan Rickman under the mask.
Both of them claim to have political aims and aspirations of a revolutionary nature but reveal themselves to be little more than bank robbers
...And the Rickman deficiency makes Amon fall flat.

[Flickerdart]

Oh man, if only Amon was voiced by Alan Rickman.

Actually, no. Tenzin should be Rickman so he can scold Korra.

[Kato]

In some ways Amon is like Hans Gruber.. Except There is no Alan Rickman under the mask.
Both of them claim to have political aims and aspirations of a revolutionary nature but reveal themselves to be little more than bank robbers
...And the Rickman deficiency makes Amon fall flat.

What bank did Amon want to rob again? Don't get me wrong, they did derail his character at the end but he was still a revolutionary, with an debatable cause but still.
(Rickman voicing Amon does have some attraction, though. I guess it would have been good publicity if he'd used his charm to convince benders to freely give up their powers

[dehro]

He was out for personal gain.. Power, wealth, revenge..
maybe not a bank, but hardly the revolutionary ideals, aims and values he claimed to fight for.