Living Armory, featuring biological items of various types. (Please PEACH)

[Almarck]

I'm hesitant to use the battery mechanic exactly, mostly due to pricing issues and the recharge stations. Conversely, food is pretty much everywhere or can be gained from solar energy.

Perhaps all living items gained energy from internal photosynthesis or by physically bonding with a host? The issue then is that charges are limited by time.

Edit: The only way a Food to Fuel mechanic would work is if I can figure out a universal metric.

[Hanuman]

I could conceivably make a better system or ditch the evolution mechanic entirely. What do you think about that?

I think 90% of homebrew issues are caused by the refusal to accept or reference existing material, how many monk or fighter fixes are there, how many things need to be juuuust right for the individual.

Honestly I'm not big into novels, I don't enjoy walls of text as much as the average dnd player, and I think your system is incredibly bloated compared to using existing concepts.

Mind you, my biggest project (in my sig) is a bloated pile of bulletpoints, loaded with so many options in such a convoluted and MAD way that it takes a while to understand what anything actually is or what the class' function in the party is. It's finicky and personalized to a point, but it's also absorbed so many other people's ideas that it's kind of an akira style blob monster of a class.

I think, what you want, is enough bang and fluff and stuff like that to really impress the viewers, not just "here's a cool bunch of neat data for you to plug and play like a script into your website, just Control + C !"

I'd do this with flare, get or draw some pictures, make everything shiny, make the presentation of the simple stuff really classy and once you hit the actual data people will be like oh snap son this bioweapons gonna make my players day, its got speed holes and spinning rims and has fire details-- MADE OF HOT AND REAL FIRE.

Think of it like a toy you can throw to your players like a parent would throw a BB gun to their kid (in some previous generation), except ditch all that responsibility crap, your player probably doesn't want to know all that crap, how to cast and mold BB's, all the prices of all the barrels and stocks, ect and the rest of the party surely gives very little fracks so if they get THEIR hands on it for an extended period of time you want to make that experience easy as well for both player and DM. I hear where you're coming from, but man, games already got rules, if you want to create an entire subsystem to handle rules there's better uses than "this is nonmagical magic for the same price up front but requires meticulous upkeep costs".

Having small constructs you can use as weapons? Amazing, do that. Amazing dungeon flavor. Have the whole dungeon crawling with em and find one you can control? Yes please.

Having a material you can feed for minor effects? Great, love it. Prolly gonna use it.

Having a big enchantment nonmagical subsystem thing? Whatever, it's what some people are into. Gramarize it and make it biomatter and get some 10#'s principalities in that.

I really enjoy the flavor though, interested in seeing more of your work.

[Almarck]

Thank you, and you've really made me think. I realize part of the problem of this project is that I didn't spend a month mulling about it like I usually do.


I need to establish a good mechanic that does something more than make a more simplistic enchantment system.

I'm thinking of replacing it with a "Link" system, where items of certain types benefit one another by providing a synergy bonus. Not every item can synergize with every other item, but the times they do are quite neat.

For instance, as a hypothetical example, combining a muscle suit and a bonesword gives you deflect arrows. Using it with a spitter instead means you can add your strength bonus to damage. Then if you have a spitter, you could get a shield that negates rays. Then if you have all of that, the crown on your head that provides shortterm mind blank effects grows stronger and lasts longer

This is sort of a more interesting mechanic in my opinion, because it encourages that the player try to decide on what synergies he wants to use and makes the choice of upgrading a much more nuanced decision if the DM isn't keen of just upgrading an existing item and you need more replacements.

The theme of "Link" would be that the items are all "talking" to each other and optimizing their defenses while in contact with one another.


By the way. The only reason I am not using Googlefu to get pictures is the fineprint against images without permission. Granted, I can probably get demotovationals and use those because of the Parody rules.

[Hanuman]

Mods gonna mod, for future projects I'm planning on using google docs then just providing links, that way the mods are spared liability for (c) infringement and I get to put whatever illustrations I damn well please. They've been pretty accomodating so far, except for illustrations specifically taken from books, even when modified to abstract their likeness with photoshop filters. I've also had threads closed never to be re-opened, which is generally why I keep backups of all my threads in text files so it's not a huge pain in the ass to re-code new threads.

Sounds like you want to copy diablo II style set bonuses. That is a mountain of work.

Again, think about how to use existing concepts. If you're giving an effect from an item find similar items that grant effects and use their cost, ones that grant feats can be extremely expensive, something that "blocks rays" would be incredibly expensive. Better to just go with deflection AC at that point.

If you want to integrate your bioweaponry into you just use the graft weapon or graft armor psionic powers:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unl...g/graft-weapon
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unl.../g/graft-armor

If you transform then use something like beast shape, which is essentially druid's balanced wildshape:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/b/beast-shape

For advancement with armor and weaponry and such there are a few ways you can handle that, there is oldschool essentia, you could make a new system, but the best thing I can think of would be using the aegis' class abilities:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unl.../classes/aegis

Specifically using astra suit customizations:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unl...s/astral-suits

And if you want a more horror or alien feel thennn aberrant:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unl...press/aberrant

See, you have a balanced and established list of content already sorted and established for you (which means it assuredly LOOKS more balanced for when the player proposes the brew to their DM), you can just provide a link, say that the content is refluffed a certain way, and BAM you've shaved off 40 hours (including re-mull, balancing, correcting, later additions and compensating for PEACH responses).

There's lots of options to choose from for existing content, not just the ones I referenced.

[Almarck]

Yes, I see the point. I'm likely going to use Graft as a way to allow linking without it being mandatory.

For the record, the bonuses are not "Sets" exactly like Diablo, though it functions in much the same way. Items work best when comboed and the same item might be featuring mutually exclusive choices (such as 2 boneswords akimbo versus sword and shield). As for it being loads of work? Well, compared to what I was doing before with evolutions, it'd be very simplistic in comparison.

Thank you for reminding me of sources I could use. I don't factor DSP often mostly because I never get GMs who let me to use them.

[Hanuman]

By saving time I mean in a "take one digit off the number of hours" sort of way, if you're going from 100 -> 40 -> 4 that's a lot of time saved.

Here's some more fuel to your fire:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...lf-To-Sleep%29

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/shows...&postcount=397

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/shows...8&postcount=26

This is kind of why I was mentioning gramarie, because complicated systems have already been built around this sort of concept, but establishing a system of items maybe not. Gramarie has their own IRC channel too.

[Almarck]

Alright. Well, yeah, I think that's what started this project. I keep seeing people publish whole classes over using biological stuff but hardly anyone focuses on just letting items exist to make existing classes better at using living things.

Also, project on hold for a few days as I work on other projects. I'm mostly mulling over how I want to redesign things to be not only more useful, but to be better.

Weirdly, I've got this idea for a "evolution points" system based of Aegis and Summoner. Make a table for converting generic items and evolve them using points not too dissimilar from the two above. The item's evolution is thereby completely in the player's control. The only question is how to have it interact with enchantment. What's your take on it? Keep them seperate? Link them up?

Make Enchantment bonuses provide EP?

The idea is likely mutually exclusive to the linking synergy bonuses in the previous idea.

[Milo v3]

The only question is how to have it interact with enchantment.

I'd keep it separate.

[Almarck]

I'd keep it separate.

Mutually exclusive seperate, or you can apply both to the same weapon by paying for both upgrades (+1/+3 for example) ?

[Milo v3]

Mutually exclusive seperate, or you can apply both to the same weapon by paying for both upgrades (+1/+3 for example) ?

I'd say mutually exclusive, since they're creatures, so they are technically making natural attacks, which require a special amulet to enchant them. You could force them to include the costs of the amulet to enchant them I suppose.

[Hanuman]

I'd say mutually exclusive, since they're creatures, so they are technically making natural attacks, which require a special amulet to enchant them. You could force them to include the costs of the amulet to enchant them I suppose.

Reaaaaaaally depends on exactly what we are talking about.

If the "thing" is being used as a weapon it's treated as a normal weapon, if it's grafted you can also treat it as a natural weapon, if it's like, an Arbalester then you could let it fire itself in which case it's not using your attack roll at all, you're just carrying it as you would another player.

If it's fleshed out as a full creature (not just intelligent item) then perhaps use the animated object rules?

[Milo v3]

Reaaaaaaally depends on exactly what we are talking about.

If the "thing" is being used as a weapon it's treated as a normal weapon, if it's grafted you can also treat it as a natural weapon, if it's like, an Arbalester then you could let it fire itself in which case it's not using your attack roll at all, you're just carrying it as you would another player.

If it's fleshed out as a full creature (not just intelligent item) then perhaps use the animated object rules?

I was meaning, it's the living weapons natural weapon. So, it is harder to enchant than a "real" weapon.

[Hanuman]

I was meaning, it's the living weapons natural weapon. So, it is harder to enchant than a "real" weapon.

Perhaps more expensive, but yes you could just treat the weapon as if it's grafted to itself? So it wields itself as a natural weapon OR manufactured weapon, and since you can graft it to yourself then you could do the same?

[Almarck]

I'll make it a default that they count as either/or where favorable.
They are still "items" after all.

One funny thing I thought of thought of as a result of this. "Weapon Feats" as in the weapon itself levels up and gets hitdice and feats. May not actually do this, but still, a funny thing to think about.

[Almarck]

Updated the first post. Now Living items do not posses "evolution" nor may they benefit from "enchantment".

My current replacement idea is to provide an item that acts as an amulet of mighty fists, except that it only provides a straight up enchantment bonus to living items when equipped. This bonus applies to both weapons and armor.

Also, I have made grafting a universal ability, known as mending. Grafting armor works exactly the same as the power.

But the weapon is slightly different. Instead, two handed and/or weapons may be grafted, not just just one-handed melee weapons. The idea was that maybe some players want to make a technoorganic Samus Aran where a really big two handed rifle is melded to the right or left arm and they can use the other hand to stabilize the platform.

Still need to edit the other posts, but I think the road I am going down now is probably better than the one I have embarked on earlier. Evolution was too complicated.

Oh, also, made a big spiel about the benefits of living weapons, under the context of the new rules.

[Almarck]

Made some edits and completely changed weapons.


Now there is a weapon material for melee weapons with more coming as I think about it.

Also I streamlined the existing firearms. Probably not going to add more on those fronts for a while.

Still haven't mad bonuses to mixing and matching but mores coming.

also the more I think about it the more I imagine the system getting very Diabloesque.

What does everyone think?

[GorinichSerpant]

Won't it be silly if a warforged wore living armor and used living weaponry? He'd (she, it, whatever) would be a fleshy robot with a metal core. I feel that certain living item options shouldn't be available to constructs, but warforged are classifed as living constructs and such so I guess that detail can be hand-waved.

[Almarck]

Which makes it pretty hilarious no? Warforged do technically have living components particularly wood that acts as their fles whole metal works mostly as an exoskeleton.

[Hanuman]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pj5_7jnIXm8

I like that you switched to enchantments, because thats basically what they are. If you want to hide that allow options to make it more expensive.

I'd still go for minimal presentation, start with a multi-cel image of different living weapons, ect.

[Almarck]

Switch to enchantments? Uh no I haven't unless I misunderstand. Cure entry you can't enchant a living item. I've got a way to replace enchantment in a manner similar to an amulet of mighty fists but for the sake of compatibility but I have yet to release it.

And what do you mean by a multicellular image

[Hanuman]

Something like this:

[Almarck]

Oh the Mythos thing.. Hm, I'll need to figure out a good source.

And for the record, i nthe old Version, items could be both Evolved and Enchanted, but I decided to drop the evolutoon because it made things complicated in a boring way.

[Hanuman]

Well boring is kind of subjective, some people like dry and some people can't be bothered. It's difficult to find the correct balance.

[Almarck]

I found it boring because it offered complexity with no real substance. The original system was all about arbitrary gating to prevent people from having way too powerful weapons for their level. Nixing it frees up designing things without having to take it into consideration.

[Almarck]

Major update. I have added numerous new weapons and weapon materials in the course of the week.

And just now I have uploaded all of the armor listings.

My next step is to develop the enchantment replacement system.

[SangoProduction]

If you are looking for inspiration: there's a game series that's old, but does feature this "bio-magic." It's called Gene-forge. (I believe) It's old, and so it's graphics aren't great, but I enjoyed the games.
One of their items was the biotool, or something the similar, which could feel around in a lock and open it like a key. In the game though, it was one use, which I don't think you are going for. It doesn't go too far into the making living weapons and armor and what have you, but yeah.
I might call this tool an Omni-key, and allow it to always take 10 with a +13. If given the time, it could take 20 as well. The key can be released, and allowed to try to unlock it while you focus on something else, or you could "assist" it by bonding to it temporarily, allowing it to open locks of 25. It would take a move-equivalent action to insert the key into an appropriate key hole, and activate it.

[Almarck]

OOh that game. I always wanted to play that game a few years back. I heard it was awesome.

Thanks for reminding me such things as awesome at that existed once.

As for the omnikey, I'll definately take it. Probably might have to fold it up with other tools though...

[SangoProduction]

The gods smile upon thee. For no reason what so ever, a pdf of the book: life-shaping handbook, was in my downloads folder.
About half way through the feats section I realize: "hey, didn't gene forge call their magic "shaping" as well?" Then came up the "shape creature" feat. Yup.
I haven't read it through completely, but it seems promising so far, and even has it's one "currency" for building life-shaped objects (ceramic pieces, if I'm reading this correctly). You might wanna nab some of their ideas. (although, if I am correct, these ceramic pieces are just replacements for paying raw gold for raw materials, but still)

You can find the pdf by searching "life shaping handbook"

[Almarck]

You're late to the party. I already read it at the recomedation of other people in the thread. I liked the idea of it but I felt it wasn't alive enough if you catch my drift. I thank you for bringing it up again though. I had forgotten I can still reference it for details.

Anyways ceramic pieces were a material replacement instead of paying in gold. While this is great for thematic reasons doesn't offer enough to the table. Similarly there was just too much untapped potential in making living weapons and armor. The ones in the book simply put were not really too impressive at first glance nor did they feel complete. There was only two or three sets of armor for one and none of them was heavy.

Simply put there was too much emphasize on item and not enough on on alive unless we're talking about constructs.... hm that gives me an idea. Thanks for letting me know.

[Debihuman]

I think you are making this needlessly complex. The fluff is all very nice (needs some editing and proofreading to fix errors and tighten up the text) but I don't see your original weapon chart matching the text.

Since you brought up the fact that ranged weapons create their own munitions [It is under special in the chart but perhaps needs its own column]. Can they fire mundane or magical ammunition as well or are you stuck with only one type of ammunition?

One problem I have is this sentence regarding melee weapons: "Their functions though on paper are quite simple; actually using one can prove to be a complex task, comparable to some magical or advanced technological items." HOW are these more difficult to use than other weapons? Do you really want to penalize a PC for using this? If so, what are the mechanics for it? Or do you mean it takes longer to fire them? This by the way, is exactly the opposite of what the text says since they can be fired with just a thought. There is some disconnect. I think you mean that the weapon ONLY fires one type of ammunition, UNLESS it is made from one of the new materials i.e. Adaptive Ceramite, et al. but it's not explicitly stated. Note that there seems to be no difference between Adapative Ceramite and Hardened Velkrum other than the price. Something in the text is missing.

Don't snow the reader. "Even more impressive is that living weapons seamlessly bind to the user’s forearms, becoming a specialized, almost natural extension of the user’s own limbs, giving their owner increased accuracy and power to strike at his foes." But this doesn't give the PC any bonuses that I can see. Should a bonded living weapon give a +1 untyped bonus to hit? Can a bonded weapon be removed?

Debby