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  1. - Top - End - #61
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    Default Re: Saldora, 4E DnD recruitment thread.

    Thanks, Ridai, that was a great read. Do you agree to this premise? --
    • Thaum finds good-hearted adventuresome allies
    • Thaum travels with allies a while
    • Thaum and allies find a crashed Cuper and fix him up
    • Thaum, Cuper and allies travel together a while
    • Allies go off to do a personal quest*
    • Thaum and Cuper stick together and travel farther/wider because both are driven to visit many distant places
    • Game starts


    *Or allies die, or get pregnant and need to settle a while, or otherwise part ways
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  2. - Top - End - #62
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    Default Re: Saldora, 4E DnD recruitment thread.

    I'm interested if you're okay with a complete noob to 4e throwing in his hat to the ring. I saw Magitech and I want it. I want it bad.

    I'll look through the thread, try and find an SRD that tells me how to make the dream real, and get to work figuring out this new fangled system.

  3. - Top - End - #63
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    Default Re: Saldora, 4E DnD recruitment thread.

    No SRD, I'm afraid. There's a Compendium, but if you don't already know the basics of the game, it's not too useful.

    4e in general and Tegu in particular is very welcoming of re-flavoring. So if you're completely new, it's probably going to be best to say what general kind of thing you want to be able to do, and get help from experienced people in figuring out the mechanics that best match it.

    More specifically, what you want to do in combat is what pins down your race and class most quickly. Hit people with big sticks? With little sticks, but quickly? Move everybody around? Create dangerous spots? Plink from afar? Lay down big elemental blasts? Guard allies? Do you prefer mobile builds or solid ones, straightforward or tricksy, team-oriented or solo?

    Out-of-combat is a big part of the game, but most of that besides RP is determined by what skills you pick (generally pretty mutable) and how well your main stats line up with those (which are absolutely focal to your class). If there's one or two areas of skill that you consider extremely important, like alertness or sneakiness, that might impact your race/class. But most of the time skills are "close enough".

    EDIT: Oh, hey, my little sister's in the Bay Area too. Well, not right now, she's visiting the Dominican Republic, but she does LIVE nearby.
    Last edited by Dimers; 2015-02-06 at 10:31 PM.
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  4. - Top - End - #64
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    Default Re: Saldora, 4E DnD recruitment thread.

    Well, I thought I'd be pigeonholed into a fighter position but then a thought occurred: My suit amplifies my speed and jumping. Then another thought occurred: Using guns, probably just re flavored infusions if Artificers are anything like 3.5.

    I should have the general gist down. I've done a good number of 3.5 before so I understand the basic concept down. It'll just be the fun things 4e added.

  5. - Top - End - #65
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    Default Re: Saldora, 4E DnD recruitment thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunhaven View Post
    Using guns, probably just re flavored infusions if Artificers are anything like 3.5.
    Artificers are Leaders in 4e, meaning their powers generally buff the party, re-arrange the party, or heal people (in addition to doing a little damage to an enemy). They can cast out-of-combat ritual spells as well. They have no special crafting ability, aside from the default flavor of their spells.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunhaven View Post
    I should have the general gist down. I've done a good number of 3.5 before so I understand the basic concept down. It'll just be the fun things 4e added.
    The first advice people get when they say "what do I need to know about switching from 3.5 to 4e" is this: they're unrelated. They really are. They both involve a twenty-sided die and some familiar terms, but the terms all mean something different now.

    The second piece of advice is "don't build a hybrid", but hey, this is Tegu8788's game and he's kinda the High Priest of Hybridization, so you're cool there.

    So you want to have athletics and mobility (run&jump), ranged attacks (guns), and noncombat ability to craft stuff? What else?

    I already see a Theme coming into view -- Guttersnipe has nice mobility and gets better prices for stuff.
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  6. - Top - End - #66
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    Default Re: Saldora, 4E DnD recruitment thread.

    The idea is taking shape in mine head. A goblin (because I love the buggers and will play one every chance I get) Sapper from Roneel. One of the first born after the Demon War. He's shown great aptitude for the mining suits (particularly the model that allows him to sprint away from a dynamite before it explodes) that the more advanced races brought over from their home worlds and the explosives they use to clear out new mines. Bombs for days, rifle for those instances where he's had to help defend a newly opened passage that led into a monster's den, and a pick because he lives in the mines.

    May just be the case that I have to refluff something to make it fit. I'll try and digest the books tonight/this weekend.

    Edit: Hunter Ranger looks promising. Reflavor it that the stances and such are based on the suit instead of necessarily primal energy, the crossbow is a rifle.
    Last edited by Gunhaven; 2015-02-07 at 02:34 AM.

  7. - Top - End - #67
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    Default Re: Saldora, 4E DnD recruitment thread.

    @Gunhaven: Just want to underline what Dimers said. 4E is an entirely different game that just happens to share the name of a series of different games and some of their terminology and concepts (and doesn't use them the same way, for the most part). And welcome aboard.

    @Dimers: That sounds good. Also advocating those companions to part mostly not because of death, but because of life. Changes of heart, following dreams, starting families, taking other opportunities, being needed elsewhere, heck, even falling out with the rest of the group. Only very few deaths. Deaths are just lazy and make things more grim than they need to be.

    @Tegu: Those monks sound interesting. Maybe Thaum can grant them some insights and the other way around. I like the characters having something to work on throughout the story and in downtime, so maybe strengthening the runes of fire is what Thaum does, and innovate the Fire monks to start those places with the flame in the middle giving care, as a new facet of fire. Building reputation and that fellowship. Spreading the fire of reality and its people, making it stronger and make it help hold the world together.

    As for the nature of the game, I just like one where things are going on and are interesting. And where combat is an element of the game, not THE element of the game. Just let things happen when they need to. Some moments are quiet, some are loud for various reasons.

    Spoiler: About Thaum and items
    Show
    I also tried to build a mostly item-agnostic character, in hopes of those things Thaum might receive (whether it is an artifact (read: magic item), training, spiritual awakening, divine gift or whatever) aren't just upgrades, but things that fit her character and help her grow. I mean, yeah, of course I'd like Eagle Eye Goggles and Bracers of the Perfect Shot and a Siberys Shard of Fire, they are stupidly powerful for Elementalists. But maybe they come in a packaging that makes me go "that is cool and really interesting" that makes me happy to have them, instead of seeing them just as items I get because they are amazeballs powerful.

    The incendiary dagger, for example, is part of herself, pretty much what her hands can do and she has to dedicate a hand to casting flame (as otherwise she would completely destroy whatever she holds). Maybe the Siberys shard is a unique little flame she takes into herself so both can grow, becoming one. Maybe the Bracers are just bracers, but are a gift from the daughter of a late huntress who has become local legend for standing against a tide of demons and protecting her home, afterwards helping the village reconstruct and grow, her words flying like arrows at the heart of the issue at hand. The daughter might see something akin to that in Thaum and wants the bracers to help her realize her own cause. Maybe the bracers aren't even magical, but what they stand for and the memories and hopes and dreams in them still affect Thaum, who has been made of fire and fragments of someone's memories. Maybe the goggles are simply a lesson and wisdom passed on by an old veteran, helping her focus in the midst of calamity. Maybe a cloak of distortion is the result of gained insight and growth, her fire subtly distorting space around her akin to heat haze.

    Not everything must be super special snowflake-y, but I found that even if the effect is basic, if there is something else to make me and Thaum care, even if it is just a little story or detail, that is completely fine with me. Thaum has the luxury of having a mutable body to some extend and her will directly translating into the flame she uses and is made of. Feats and items might be, in setting, impossible to divide with her.

    Hell, I am playing an Essentials Striker, THE most boring category of classes in this game. I somehow found an avenue that ties the mechanics to something that really interests me, suddenly making the Elementalist a perfect fit.
    Last edited by Ridai; 2015-02-07 at 05:24 AM.

  8. - Top - End - #68
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    Default Re: Saldora, 4E DnD recruitment thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dimers View Post
    The second piece of advice is "don't build a hybrid", but hey, this is Tegu8788's game and he's kinda the High Priest of Hybridization, so you're cool there.
    Thank you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunhaven View Post
    The idea is taking shape in mine head. A goblin (because I love the buggers and will play one every chance I get) Sapper from Roneel. One of the first born after the Demon War. He's shown great aptitude for the mining suits (particularly the model that allows him to sprint away from a dynamite before it explodes) that the more advanced races brought over from their home worlds and the explosives they use to clear out new mines. Bombs for days, rifle for those instances where he's had to help defend a newly opened passage that led into a monster's den, and a pick because he lives in the mines.

    May just be the case that I have to refluff something to make it fit. I'll try and digest the books tonight/this weekend.

    Edit: Hunter Ranger looks promising. Reflavor it that the stances and such are based on the suit instead of necessarily primal energy, the crossbow is a rifle.
    A goblin ranger could work quite well. A Hunter could certainly be refluffed. One thing I should point out, there aren't many "suits" to work with. There might be some exoskeletal gear, but mostly, it's implants, what we would call cybernetics. "You lost an arm, but here is a <magic steam> powered one, now get back down there!" For guns, I'm just refluffing bows and crossbows. But the stances being different mechanical advantages definitely work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ridai View Post
    @Gunhaven: Just want to underline what Dimers said. 4E is an entirely different game that just happens to share the name of a series of different games and some of their terminology and concepts (and doesn't use them the same way, for the most part). And welcome aboard.

    @Dimers: That sounds good. Also advocating those companions to part mostly not because of death, but because of life. Changes of heart, following dreams, starting families, taking other opportunities, being needed elsewhere, heck, even falling out with the rest of the group. Only very few deaths. Deaths are just lazy and make things more grim than they need to be.

    @Tegu: Those monks sound interesting. Maybe Thaum can grant them some insights and the other way around. I like the characters having something to work on throughout the story and in downtime, so maybe strengthening the runes of fire is what Thaum does, and innovate the Fire monks to start those places with the flame in the middle giving care, as a new facet of fire. Building reputation and that fellowship. Spreading the fire of reality and its people, making it stronger and make it help hold the world together.

    As for the nature of the game, I just like one where things are going on and are interesting. And where combat is an element of the game, not THE element of the game. Just let things happen when they need to. Some moments are quiet, some are loud for various reasons.

    Spoiler: About Thaum and items
    Show
    I also tried to build a mostly item-agnostic character, in hopes of those things Thaum might receive (whether it is an artifact (read: magic item), training, spiritual awakening, divine gift or whatever) aren't just upgrades, but things that fit her character and help her grow. I mean, yeah, of course I'd like Eagle Eye Goggles and Bracers of the Perfect Shot and a Siberys Shard of Fire, they are stupidly powerful for Elementalists. But maybe they come in a packaging that makes me go "that is cool and really interesting" that makes me happy to have them, instead of seeing them just as items I get because they are amazeballs powerful.

    The incendiary dagger, for example, is part of herself, pretty much what her hands can do and she has to dedicate a hand to casting flame (as otherwise she would completely destroy whatever she holds). Maybe the Siberys shard is a unique little flame she takes into herself so both can grow, becoming one. Maybe the Bracers are just bracers, but are a gift from the daughter of a late huntress who has become local legend for standing against a tide of demons and protecting her home, afterwards helping the village reconstruct and grow, her words flying like arrows at the heart of the issue at hand. The daughter might see something akin to that in Thaum and wants the bracers to help her realize her own cause. Maybe the bracers aren't even magical, but what they stand for and the memories and hopes and dreams in them still affect Thaum, who has been made of fire and fragments of someone's memories. Maybe the goggles are simply a lesson and wisdom passed on by an old veteran, helping her focus in the midst of calamity. Maybe a cloak of distortion is the result of gained insight and growth, her fire subtly distorting space around her akin to heat haze.

    Not everything must be super special snowflake-y, but I found that even if the effect is basic, if there is something else to make me and Thaum care, even if it is just a little story or detail, that is completely fine with me. Thaum has the luxury of having a mutable body to some extend and her will directly translating into the flame she uses and is made of. Feats and items might be, in setting, impossible to divide with her.

    Hell, I am playing an Essentials Striker, THE most boring category of classes in this game. I somehow found an avenue that ties the mechanics to something that really interests me, suddenly making the Elementalist a perfect fit.
    Everybody, read that spoiler. If you want items, that's how to get them. I'm the hybrid guy, not the item guy. You can give me a wish list, and I'll see what I can do, but this is a fluff low magic world. If you want gear, it's up to you to make it fit.

    And yes, Thaum interacting with Flame Monks will be quite interesting.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dimers View Post
    The second piece of advice is "don't build a hybrid", but hey, this is Tegu8788's game and he's kinda the High Priest of Hybridization, so you're cool there.
    Guide for starting 4E.

    Spoiler
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  9. - Top - End - #69
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    Default Re: Saldora, 4E DnD recruitment thread.

    I'm interested, but I'm not exaxctly sure if I can make one soon enough.
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    The Joker is supposed to be a nightmarish figure, the culmination of all things despicable and horrible about mankind. Of course he's a hipster.

  10. - Top - End - #70
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    Default Re: Saldora, 4E DnD recruitment thread.

    Do note that the aim of the spoiler tag wasn't "I want items, and here is how I'll make them fit", but "In case I ever get items, I hope they are somewhat like this".

  11. - Top - End - #71
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    Default Re: Saldora, 4E DnD recruitment thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunhaven View Post
    A goblin (because I love the buggers and will play one every chance I get) Sapper from Roneel. One of the first born after the Demon War. He's shown great aptitude for the mining suits (particularly the model that allows him to sprint away from a dynamite before it explodes) that the more advanced races brought over from their home worlds and the explosives they use to clear out new mines.
    You might also be interested in reflavoring a tinker gnome as a goblin. They have a lot in common, like size and low-light vision. Tinkers are more skilled and smarter, compared to goblins being more sneaky and sly. What made me think of tinker gnomes was the description of running away from dynamite that's about to blow; their once-per-encounter racial power lets them take half damage from an AoE attack and reposition themselves, as if dodging out of a blast gone awry.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ridai View Post
    @Dimers: That sounds good. Also advocating those companions to part mostly not because of death, but because of life. Changes of heart, following dreams, starting families, taking other opportunities, being needed elsewhere, heck, even falling out with the rest of the group. Only very few deaths. Deaths are just lazy and make things more grim than they need to be.
    I suggested two previous companions to Tegu, a husband and wife who eventually settled down when she got pregnant. I like to help populate a world when the GM and situation allow it. A selection of chat log with some funny bits:

    Spoiler: NPCs for Cuper's past
    Show
    (Dimers) So what I'm looking for in a convenient backstory-only NPC ... They'd need to be very joyous, not necessarily innocent, just very willing to see the beauty and wonder in the world. I'm imagining two people married to each other, but that's by no means necessary. They'd have to have been adventuring in the area where I got dropped.
    (Tegu) I've just got this image in my head, of you and Thaum watching their first sunset together.
    (Dimers) Her: "That's a lot of fire!"
    Me: "Hell, that's a lot of SKY!" (( character used to live underground ))
    The NPC would need to be inclined to help a random stranger in need. They can't be too powerful, or they'd have been able to fix Cuper's leg.

    (Tegu) Healing isn't exactly abundant. At least you aren't warforged.
    (Dimers) They should be willing to travel with a man of benighted soul for a couple years, teaching him a new culture and giving him time to reform his ways. Does that all sound workable? Can you put one or two such people into your world and provide a reason they're not still with Cuper & Thaum? Hmm, Cuper & Thaum sounds like a law office. Cuper, Thaum & Victiciel, LLC.
    (Tegu) Well, death does happen. And I've got plenty of ways to kill folk.
    (Dimers) Yay. Will you provide details or shall I? Stuff like race, job, name, that kind of thing.
    (Tegu) I can, but if you wanted to give some guidelines, that would not be unappreciated.
    (Dimers) Wife-and-husband team. She's a priestess of Nehalennia but acts more like Lif-ros, a very vividly alive person. He's a sneaky warrior from a family with a long and glorious history of shoe-making, much more quiet about his passions but just as dedicated to Goodness. Young couple, traveling because a certain sect of Nehalennia's crowd do that. I'm thinking half-elves or maybe one half-elf and one more exotic. It'd be awesome to see them again, so pregnancy is a good reason for them to stop traveling.
    Last edited by Dimers; 2015-02-07 at 08:28 PM.
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  12. - Top - End - #72
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    Default Re: Saldora, 4E DnD recruitment thread.

    I'll have to find tinker gnomes. I was also looking at a pint sized version of Warforged. I've also determined that Alchemy will happen and it will involve Mark of Making and Master Mixer. I need to find Alchemist Theme and look at the Alchemist Savant paragon path if/when we get to 11.

    Will make me even more MAD but I'll make it work someway, somehow. Will look into a character builder tonight as well.

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    Default Re: Saldora, 4E DnD recruitment thread.

    Because I have need of a roll: (2d20)[11][17](28)
    I found the random background table in the same magazine as Tinker Gnomes and decided to go with "Choose your own adventure!"
    My parents were miners, poor yet hard working folk. I showed aptitude with alchemy and ended up being sent to one of the great sappers of the camp, a fellow Tinker Goblin that happened to be my distant cousin. He told me he needed help with something and that something was a party celebrating my initiation into the alchemist arts. One thing led to another and a brawl ensued where I managed to slink away and stumbled upon the camp for the scouts. Ended up enlisting because money's gotta be made and I got people who got in trouble over the brawl that would've been inevitably linked to me.
    While in the military got caught in between a rock and a hard place and had to amputate my left arm. They were able to replace it with a mundane prosthetic but desired more. He seeked knowledge concerning a magitech replacement and found that such exists. Now it's just the matter of finding the accursed piece of tech.
    Gain: Athletics when I slinked away from the tavern brawl, gain it again while losing my limb, Streetwise from finding out about the magitech replacement. Then Alchemist as a free feat from the theme Alchemist.

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    Default Re: Saldora, 4E DnD recruitment thread.

    I looked at this thread and immediately thought 'I want to play a character that worships the shadow king'. Or at least an ideal he thinks the shadow king represents. Protection against evil, the destruction of demons, and the willingness to take action and make necessary sacrifices for the greater good. Despite the beings apathy, he does seem to be trying to protect the world from demons. If someone lost loved one's to demons it could make for a very interesting character. He definitely has to wield a scythe. Mechanically I'm thinking Ranger/Avenger Rogue/Monk? Hybrid with a heavy focus on tracking and killing things? Quite creepy, I imagine. Race, not entirely sure. Maybe a long lived elf... Gotta think more and it's also incredibly late.

    So I found the Shade race and Assassin class. Unfortunately, the fluff is already awesome so very little retooling there. How do you feel about the below as a hybrid option for the assassin? (If one exists, I can't find it >.<).

    Spoiler
    Show
    CLASS TRAITS

    Role: Striker.
    Power Source: Shadow.
    Key Abilities: Dexterity, Charisma, Constitution

    Armor Proficiencies: Cloth, leather; light shields.
    Weapon Proficiencies: Simple one-handed melee, simple ranged, military heavy blade, military light blade.
    Implement: Ki focuses, weapons with which you have proficiency

    Bonus to Defense: +1 Fortitude, +1 Will.

    Hit Points at 1st Level: 5+ Constitution Score.
    Hit Points per Level Gained: 2
    Healing Surges per Day: 3+ Constitution Modifier.

    Class Skills: Acrobatics (Dex), Arcana (Int), Athletics (Str), Bluff (Cha), Endurance (Con), Insight (Wis), Perception (Wis), Stealth (Dex), Streetwise (Cha), Thievery (Dex).

    Class features: Assassin's Shroud (Hybrid)
    Hybrid Talent Options: Guild Training (Hybrid), Shade Form, or Shadow Step.


    Assassin's Shroud (Hybrid)
    You gain the assassin power assassin's shroud. The power functions as normal, except that you can apply the bonus damage only when you attack with an assassin power or an assassin paragon path power.


    Hybrid Talent Options
    If you take the Hybrid Talent feat, you can select one of the following options.

    GUILD TRAINING (HYBRID)
    This class feature functions as the assassin class feature, except that the benefits apply only on your assassin powers and assassin paragon path powers.

    SHADE FORM
    You gain the shade form power.

    SHADOW STEP
    You gain the shadow step power.


    I am currently thinking a Shade Assassin/Rogue hybrid. Shades chose their lot in life, just as my character did, and it fits so perfectly! Perhaps he actually worships the Shadow King and thus gains abilities like a cleric might from a god? Full disclosure on my plans for the mechanics. The rogue abilities would be his primary focus/source of damage for most fights, but the assassin abilities offer more interesting options powered by shadow magic, the abilities offering less damage but more extra's. Ontop of that, there is a feat that I could get that would grant combat advantage to any enemy affected by the Assassins shroud, which means my sneak attack could be applied for my rogue abilities while I slowly build the shroud up (since it can only be used up with Assassin abilities) on an enemy and then pounce with one final killing strike!

    There is one thing to ask. Any chance we can work out a feat so he can use the two handed scythe for his abilities? Both the assassin and the rogue require something smaller but even the sickle doesn't quite fit the image I have in mind! XD I don't care if that's the only bonus it offers as a feat, it would just be pretty darn cool.


    Oh, and hey Tegu! Was happy to see you recruiting for a game. Unless you aren't who I think you are. I think you are who I think you are, but I could be wrong about my thinking... Something to think on?
    Last edited by Arillius; 2015-02-08 at 09:04 AM.
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  15. - Top - End - #75
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    Default Re: Saldora, 4E DnD recruitment thread.

    @Dimers: Thaum's reaction to a sunset and sunrise is a peaceful smile, as it reminds her of all-encompassing fire, warming the world, but not burning it (and her).

    Also, my suggestion is Cuper & Thaum, pyrorunology firm.

  16. - Top - End - #76
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    Default Re: Saldora, 4E DnD recruitment thread.

    The hybrid assassin does exist; Compendium says it's from Dragon385, page 32. The official presentation is almost exactly what you wrote, Arillius. It excludes implement proficiency with proficient weapons and limits number of shrouds to a maximum of 2, neither of which makes much sense to me.

    You played with Tegu and me in two of Meltheim's games -- the "exploring a new world" Terenuri where you played a native shifter barbarian, and one on Athas where you were a badass alcoholic human warlord. The Athas game got painted into a corner when a plot-critical character dropped, but Terenuri is still going strong -- we're just about to hit page 50 IC. (Though we expect to be slow for a while because Meltheim and his wife just had twins!)
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    Default Re: Saldora, 4E DnD recruitment thread.

    I just started talking to meltman through another medium actually. And yeah, I remember you both quite well! Tegu (I have found the image of his owl bear pet in his signature) is definitely the awesome RPer I remember and you were pretty damn good too, if I recall correctly. I kinda wish life hadn't kicked the snot out of me. (Lot has happened between now and then. Speaking of, apologies to the both of you! Did not mean to vanish as I did. Did I vanish? Did I give warning? Bah, those days are so... busy and harsh I can barely recall honestly). A game that's last that long? Run by Meltman? Definitely a missed opportunity there.

    Also, those changes do sound pretty harsh. But if Tegu would prefer I go with those I won't argue! Though it would mean he couldn't use the scythe as his implement, I think. Hrm...
    Last edited by Arillius; 2015-02-08 at 10:43 AM.
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    Default Re: Saldora, 4E DnD recruitment thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ridai View Post
    Do note that the aim of the spoiler tag wasn't "I want items, and here is how I'll make them fit", but "In case I ever get items, I hope they are somewhat like this".
    No no, don't worry, it's all good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunhaven View Post
    Because I have need of a roll: [roll0]
    I found the random background table in the same magazine as Tinker Gnomes and decided to go with "Choose your own adventure!"
    My parents were miners, poor yet hard working folk. I showed aptitude with alchemy and ended up being sent to one of the great sappers of the camp, a fellow Tinker Goblin that happened to be my distant cousin. He told me he needed help with something and that something was a party celebrating my initiation into the alchemist arts. One thing led to another and a brawl ensued where I managed to slink away and stumbled upon the camp for the scouts. Ended up enlisting because money's gotta be made and I got people who got in trouble over the brawl that would've been inevitably linked to me.
    While in the military got caught in between a rock and a hard place and had to amputate my left arm. They were able to replace it with a mundane prosthetic but desired more. He seeked knowledge concerning a magitech replacement and found that such exists. Now it's just the matter of finding the accursed piece of tech.
    Gain: Athletics when I slinked away from the tavern brawl, gain it again while losing my limb, Streetwise from finding out about the magitech replacement. Then Alchemist as a free feat from the theme Alchemist.
    What article is that in? I'll have to check it out. If it's two +2s thats unbalanced, but a pair of +1s would work. Powered limbs aren't too hard to find, but the quality may be lacking. It would be easier for your goblin to looking for better blue-prints and someone to build it for him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arillius View Post
    I looked at this thread and immediately thought 'I want to play a character that worships the shadow king'. Or at least an ideal he thinks the shadow king represents. Protection against evil, the destruction of demons, and the willingness to take action and make necessary sacrifices for the greater good.

    I am currently thinking a Shade Assassin/Rogue hybrid. Shades chose their lot in life, just as my character did, and it fits so perfectly! Perhaps he actually worships the Shadow King and thus gains abilities like a cleric might from a god? Full disclosure on my plans for the mechanics. The rogue abilities would be his primary focus/source of damage for most fights, but the assassin abilities offer more interesting options powered by shadow magic, the abilities offering less damage but more extra's. Ontop of that, there is a feat that I could get that would grant combat advantage to any enemy affected by the Assassins shroud, which means my sneak attack could be applied for my rogue abilities while I slowly build the shroud up (since it can only be used up with Assassin abilities) on an enemy and then pounce with one final killing strike!

    There is one thing to ask. Any chance we can work out a feat so he can use the two handed scythe for his abilities? Both the assassin and the rogue require something smaller but even the sickle doesn't quite fit the image I have in mind! XD I don't care if that's the only bonus it offers as a feat, it would just be pretty darn cool.
    I am who you think I am, if you are thinking that I am who I am. There is a hybrid version of the Assassin, so go ahead and use that if that's your plan. Now, just praying to something doesn't automatically give you magic powers unless you go in whole hog, but if you want to say that your magic abilities the Assassin class gives comes from the Shadow King, go for it. Worth mentioning, that's not his title. He doesn't have one. It's just what everyone calls him, with a less than happy sneer. No one knows what would happen if you called him Shadow King to his face, but it's probably bad. It also serves as a way to signify him without saying his name.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ridai View Post
    Also, my suggestion is Cuper & Thaum, pyrorunology firm.
    Oh the flashback fun these will cause.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arillius View Post
    Did I vanish? Did I give warning? Bah, those days are so... busy and harsh I can barely recall honestly). A game that's last that long? Run by Meltman? Definitely a missed opportunity there.

    Also, those changes do sound pretty harsh. But if Tegu would prefer I go with those I won't argue! Though it would mean he couldn't use the scythe as his implement, I think. Hrm...
    You did give warning I believe. My character is still carrying one of your axes around. Dimer's guy used my guy's memories of your barbarian to brain slam some thugs.

    There are several ways to get a scythe as an implement, themes and MCing and such. I've never played with an Assassin of any kind, so I'm inclined to have only 2 shrouds, but I'd have to see it play to before I made any firm decision.
    Last edited by Tegu8788; 2015-02-08 at 11:05 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dimers View Post
    The second piece of advice is "don't build a hybrid", but hey, this is Tegu8788's game and he's kinda the High Priest of Hybridization, so you're cool there.
    Guide for starting 4E.

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    Default Re: Saldora, 4E DnD recruitment thread.

    There's also the matter of getting it as his main weapon too, since the rogue abilities and I believe some of the Assassin abilities won't allow it to be used.

    At two shrouds the Assassin half is weakened. The class is already not known for it's damage. That said, it's still useful in combination with certain things, I'll just be using them a little more situationally? The hybrid is still pretty good, the Assassin offering interesting options the rogue doesn't have after all, and enabling sneak attack every round I want it.

    As far as his powers go... Hrm... Well he is a Shade and I did want to touch on that. Perhaps he simply followed in the Shadow Kings footsteps? The guy took power from the demons. This character stole a ritual as well, and rather then sacrifice someone else, sacrificed a piece of his soul to gain power. Turned him into a shade but also gave him access to shadow magic.
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    Versatile Duelist takes care of the scythe as a weapon. The Assassin is a weaker class for a reason. Take a look at the executioner, and see if any of that is more useful feature wise.

    In terms of mimicking the Shadow King, you'd be at a way smaller scale. What he did was not uncommon, it's just the size that's extreme. Very extreme. I like the inversion of the ritual idea though.

    Don't worry too much about optimization folks, I built fights around the party. Do what you do as well as you can, I'll take care of the rest.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dimers View Post
    The second piece of advice is "don't build a hybrid", but hey, this is Tegu8788's game and he's kinda the High Priest of Hybridization, so you're cool there.
    Guide for starting 4E.

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    The executioner wouldn't work very well with it considering the Scythe is a two handed weapon, and the executioners ability key's off one handed weapons (and is more about a variety of weapons like the garrote or the blow gun). Which is why I don't think Versatile Duelist works either, though that's basically what I want it to do. XD That said, the character will still do decent damage. He won't cut it with the best rogues but guaranteed combat is nothing to sneeze at. That's a +2 to hit and a 1d6 to damage with all of his rogue powers. The general idea still works, the assassin powers just won't be quite as gruesome as I had envisioned. (2d6 ain't nothing to sneeze at either when you throw it onto a Daily. With the Scythe as the weapon that's a little better then a bonus 1[W].) And thanks to the rogue powers he can build it easily, which is the main weakness of the shroud's for an assassin.

    And yeah, I figured it'd be on a much smaller scale, but the feedback has given the character direction. He doesn't worship the Shadow King but he does sort of idealize him. I'm imagining a human child in a war torn village, the Demons having torn the place to shreds. And then the Shadow King arrives. The Shadow King pays no heed to the dead or dying, his focus, and his army, pointed straight at the enemy. What follows is the destruction of the forces that claimed the child's home, family and nearly his life. And then the King left, to face other enemies, leaving a young child with the image of that powerful figure in his mind.

    The inversion of the ritual is, in the end, perhaps a source of pride or shame. He couldn't bear to sacrifice another to the demonic ritual, as the books say he must do to gain the power. Instead, he decides to make a different sort of sacrifice, a more personal one. For his power, he gives up his humanity and a piece of his soul. It turned him into the shade he is today, a literal shadow of his former self. And the results were even weaker then it should have been. He hadn't paid a full soul, he only got the power for a small sliver of it. But it had a side affect. The power, the dark shadowy power, is now inside him, and it is growing slowly. Every thief, crook, murderer, or monster he hunts down and slays feeds it. Slowly, perhaps, but surely.
    Last edited by Arillius; 2015-02-08 at 12:22 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tegu8788 View Post
    I've never played with an Assassin of any kind, so I'm inclined to have only 2 shrouds, but I'd have to see it play to before I made any firm decision.
    Armchair evalutation incoming ... A hybrid assassin might not have many assassin powers, especially if they trade dailies for poison. If the character is allowed to spend most of the combat building up shrouds while acting as another class, and then uses their single assassin encounter power to activate all the shrouds, that might be considered "unfair" to non-hybrids because it gets the striker feature's full value every time it's used. Restricting hybrids to two shrouds makes an assassin-primary hybrid a very poor striker, but WotC has proven willing to sacrifice hybrids' effectiveness to make sure they don't outshine base classes.

    The idea of building up shrouds for one big hit at the end of combat tends not to work, because (except in boss battles) you can't know which enemy will be the one who lasts four rounds! And of course in the meantime you're not effective because you're not using your striker feature.

    I think a better solution would be to only let the assassin use the shroud power twice per enemy per combat. If the player chooses assassin feats, powers, items and paragon paths that add shrouds or move them from creature to creature, that's a build investment that shouldn't be thrown away -- that's just getting more benefit from playing more like an assassin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arillius View Post
    The executioner wouldn't work very well with it considering the Scythe is a two handed weapon ...
    Refluff a longsword, rapier or bastard sword as a scythe? Heck, you could add a light shield and say that you're so skilled with the "scythe" that you parry some attacks, or that the "scythe" siphons off some energy from incoming attacks.
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    Default Re: Saldora, 4E DnD recruitment thread.

    assassin use the shroud power twice per enemy per combat.

    Wait, I'm confused. The original shroud ability isn't limited by combat, so what you're proposing would be an even heavier penalty to the ability. The shroud ability can be used at will. The only limits are the fact that you can only have shrouds on one enemy at a time and that you can only have up to four. The hybrid is limited to two instead, but he can still use it as often as he wants against the enemy to build up a rhythm.

    And I might refluff a longsword. The versatile part of that will mean an extra point of damage a round which is nothing to sneeze at, and it still does the same damage as the Scythe. (It'll be a little less reliable with that damage but -shrug- XD). Higher proficiency bonus too.
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    Default Re: Saldora, 4E DnD recruitment thread.

    Random backgrounds are in Dragon 422. I think it's training in Athletes and Streetwise, +2 in Athletes. I was thinking of taking Multiclass: Artificer and Mark of Making and was wandering if there was a chance I could swap out the Alchemist feat for Master Mixer for the glory that will be Clockwork Bombs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arillius View Post
    assassin use the shroud power twice per enemy per combat.

    Wait, I'm confused. The original shroud ability isn't limited by combat, so what you're proposing would be an even heavier penalty to the ability. The shroud ability can be used at will. The only limits are the fact that you can only have shrouds on one enemy at a time and that you can only have up to four.
    Ah, not so, sir -- the primary limitation in practice is that you can only lay one down per round, because you can only use the power once per turn on your turn only. That means -- without assassin feats, powers, et cetera -- you only get a total of four or five shrouds per combat. The main source of assassin bonus damage is getting more ways to add shrouds than just the Assassin's Shroud power.

    If you're limited to two shrouds per enemy, you never get much bonus damage, so you're never very strikery. My suggestion would limit the assassin to two shrouds per enemy only if they made no investment in ways to add shrouds. And the only way it's worse than two shrouds per enemy as an absolute limit is if you apply two, invoke them, apply two more, invoke them, et cetera ... which is just not how D&D4e battles play out in practice. Your allies are generally attacking the enemies with you; there's not a chance to shroud-and-invoke over and over against a single creature.

    If you want to retain that option anyway, the wording might be better as "You may only use assassin's shroud against a given enemy twice per encounter. Each time you invoke your shrouds, you may use assassin's shroud twice more against that creature."

    Personally, I'd just let the shroud power's normal wording stand (with the caveat that shrouds can only be invoked with assassin/PP powers). But my suggestion allows shrouds to be as strong as the investment one makes in the assassin side of one's hybrid -- a more generous offer than the existing hybrid shroud.
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    The problem with that is the fact that there aren't any feats to increase the amount of shrouds that can be placed on an enemy or increase the upward limit, or I might agree (even then, your change in wording only serves to limit the hybrid more). At least none that I've seen. The abilities that let you place more shrouds exist and are easy to get without feat investment (It's a power investment instead), but that upward limit of two would still be there, just as the upward limit of four is there for the Assassin class in general. This could be fixed with some homebrew feats but I've been looking and there's nothing about increasing that limit.

    Also, your interpretation doesn't seem any different from the original wording of the ability. In fact, by changing the wording, you'd make the ability ineligible for feats that could actually increase that limit because yours seems to read as a different kind.

    The Hybrid I made would basically work in two-three round increments. If I shroud someone, then they grant combat advantage, which means instead of invoking the shroud I can sneak attack them. The next round, I shroud them again, and now I can invoke both and get an extra 2d6 on an assassin ability (it's worthless for the at will, because the rouge at will I chose averages better damage, but for the encounter and daily power's it will be useful.) As far how that will work in combat, I'm pretty sure my Assassin will have time to get two hits on an enemy.

    The executioner option is still weaker too because it would grant an extra d8 on melee's with the refluffed longsword, but without the shroud combat advantage becomes much harder to achieve, meaning that d6 will get lost more often then not. Ontop of the fact that it doesn't really get powers the way a normal class does, so I don't think it can work with the Hybrid format.

    Edit: Sneak Attack does 2d6 damage. Who knew? XD (Yes, I really did just realize this. I've probably been confusing people too. Sorry. Pretty cool actually. -nods-)
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    Default Re: Saldora, 4E DnD recruitment thread.

    Er, what I suggested changed how many times the assassin's shroud power itself could be used, not how many shrouds could be on a creature. That was the entire point. Well, whatever. Not something I need to fix. *shrug*

    EDIT: Yes, there's a hybrid executioner option, and it's one of the few that doesn't require class attacks for bonus damage. It does require basic attacks instead, which a rogue is not likely to make. It's good for Str+Dex builds and a few other options, including paladin and avenger.

    I'm offering again to let folks use my DDI account for the Compendium -- very useful for investigating this kind of thing. PM me if you'd like access.
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    Apologies, I haven't slept, so I admit you're idea could be quite obvious and it's possible it's just going over my head. XD

    As it stands I think I've got a solid character. I'm going to sleep before working on his backstory however.
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    Default Re: Saldora, 4E DnD recruitment thread.

    Part of me knows it'd help but part of me knows I'm going to have a hard enough time without finding new things every few minutes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunhaven View Post
    Part of me knows it'd help but part of me knows I'm going to have a hard enough time without finding new things every few minutes.
    I appreciate that feeling. Options are good, but one can have too much of a good thing.
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